And this is why

[thyme4change]

Sept 10, 2014 23:02:07 GMT -5 quince said:

 I actually agree that female violence against males is often ignored or dismissed when it should not be. It does not make disproportionate response OK, but it is something people wave off. We also talk about victims of domestic violence as though they were always female- they are not.  Female victims have the stigma of it being their fault for not having better judgement- male victims have people who don't want to acknowledge that a woman can abuse a man, and don't see a female striking a male as a problem at all.

I do not want my male or female friends or relatives in abusive situations.

I have watched the video a bunch of times.  Was the response disproportionate?  

I'm not saying what he did was okay.  I am just not sure it was disproportionate.  As I said before, I think she was knocked out because she hit the bar in the elevator.  

[Value Buy]

Sept 11, 2014 8:20:03 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Sept 10, 2014 23:02:07 GMT -5 quince said:

 I actually agree that female violence against males is often ignored or dismissed when it should not be. It does not make disproportionate response OK, but it is something people wave off. We also talk about victims of domestic violence as though they were always female- they are not.  Female victims have the stigma of it being their fault for not having better judgement- male victims have people who don't want to acknowledge that a woman can abuse a man, and don't see a female striking a male as a problem at all.

I do not want my male or female friends or relatives in abusive situations.

I have watched the video a bunch of times.  Was the response disproportionate?  

I'm not saying what he did was okay.  I am just not sure it was disproportionate.  As I said before, I think she was knocked out because she hit the bar in the elevator.  

I cannot buy that argument.

If you are in a physical argument, pull a knife and "threaten your opponent" with a slashing movement towards them, do not mean actual harm, and accidently slash an artery somewhere and the person goes to the hospital injured or dies) you are charged with some kind of murder charge, regardless of actual intent.

Intent may be a factor, but outcome brings the results.

[Value Buy]

Am I the only one here that thinks the media is out of control towards the NFL here? The calls for the resignation or firing of Roger Godell (sp?)

for his handling of the situation, is ridiculous.

Rice has issues, but this happened off the clock, in a public casino.

Where is the player's union on this issue?

I assume Rice is guilty of personal issues that reflect publicly on the NFL and therefore can be let go (moral clause, etc)

I do not even know if the NFL should suspend anyone on this until he is proven guilty in a court of law.

The media is crying for Roger's head, and yet, you can bet your last dime there are people in media outlets carrying out the same crime of spousal abuse, management is aware of the crime, does nothing about it, but the media would never fire  someone for it until that person is found guilty in court.

[TheHaitian]

The media always over react on everything, so nothing knew there.

It is sensationalism, got to make it bigger and worse, suck all the rating you can out of it!

[justme]

I'm not so sure the bar is what knocked her out. Maybe the force of the punch was so strong that she couldn't react, but I don't see arms flailing or anything before she hits the bar. Granted I've never been punched in the face, but when I get knocked off balance instinct kicks in and immediately starts trying to grab something to stop my fall before I even realize what's going on. I expected to see some of that if it was the bar that knocked her out.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 11, 2014 8:20:03 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Sept 10, 2014 23:02:07 GMT -5 quince said:

 I actually agree that female violence against males is often ignored or dismissed when it should not be. It does not make disproportionate response OK, but it is something people wave off. We also talk about victims of domestic violence as though they were always female- they are not.  Female victims have the stigma of it being their fault for not having better judgement- male victims have people who don't want to acknowledge that a woman can abuse a man, and don't see a female striking a male as a problem at all.

I do not want my male or female friends or relatives in abusive situations.

I have watched the video a bunch of times.  Was the response disproportionate?  

I'm not saying what he did was okay.  I am just not sure it was disproportionate.  As I said before, I think she was knocked out because she hit the bar in the elevator.  

It was disproportionate. 

[Nazgul Girl]

Sept 9, 2014 15:40:06 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

That was my mom 100%.  And she would take the abuser's side even with her own kids when they would try to help her after she had the shit beat out of her.  The cops came to her house so many times they finally told her they had enough and until she's ready to testify against the last guy she was with they would stop answering her calls.  We did too.  She would turn your life upside down in the middle of the night only to run back to the abuser and then turn on you if you tried to "break them up because you are jealous of their awesome love" and "don't understand because you never loved like they do"  (thank God!) or whatever sick conclusion they come to.   

Then the abuser leaves them and they find another one even worse and the sickness continues.  There is not much anybody can do until they've decided they've had enough and break the cycle or they get killed.   Or in my mom's case she died of cancer before she found the next psycho to "love" her. 

   I'm so sorry that you and your siblings had to go through this.        I do pity your mother as well, but she needed to just stop and take care of you guys.   I know it's more complicated then that, but you were her first responsibility.

[Nazgul Girl]

Sept 9, 2014 15:59:07 GMT -5 simser said:

As a former abused spouse I can tell you that in that life, your whole sense of reality goes wonky. I got out only after living on my own for 2 years while still "being married" and I was finally able to relax in my own house, rather than not doing things because they would set him off. My coworkers saw me change into a different person. I had a really good friend today ask me about my new boy. He actually said "let the judging commence". He was trying to make sure that I don't fall into the same trap as I did before.

It's not something you will understand until you go through it. And may you never have to. But my biggest recommendation to anyone is that one of the most HARMFUL things you can do is say "well I have no sympathy because she chose to stay". It's victim blaming.

Although something similar is how you think your family is normal, and we all think it's not normal? It's kinda like that.

    Simser, my sister was involved in an abusive relationship with her first husband, and as a family member, it's not that the family doesn't care.   It's very frustrating to try to talk the abused person to leave the asshole, and have him ( or her, for that matter ) constantly defend and go back to the abuser.   Sometimes, as a person who loves their relative, you have to detach somewhat for your own sanity.   We never told her it was her fault or anything like  that, though.   We were afraid that he would kill her before she left him.   

[Nazgul Girl]

Sept 9, 2014 16:04:21 GMT -5 sapphire12 said:

People have to make their own choices. But, it doesn't sound like she wants sympathy or empathy. She wants people to leave their family alone. And, I agree. Leave them be. Sheesh. Enough with the trial by media.

    I disagree.   If she doesn't leave him, he'll eventually kill her.        She needs to quit defending him, and walk.

[Nazgul Girl]

   I had heard on the news that she was arrested for domestic assault as well.  

[Nazgul Girl]

Sept 9, 2014 18:30:34 GMT -5 achelois said:

He had much greater strength and is in top physical condition. 

I do not approve of her behavior--she was definitely wrong to do what she did, but I also believe that he was fully capable of protecting himself and subduing her without knocking her out and dragging her unconscious body around. He made no effort to subdue her by holding her off or pinning her hands to her side or anything. Just punched with his fist and knocked her out. His use of force was excessive for the situation. IMHO. 

They are both messed up. Violence is unacceptable. Man or woman. 

I have related the story of my first marriage. I was 18/he 27 and a police officer. He was physically abusive after we were married, escalating from verbal abuse and financial control over time. I got the worst beating of my life for accidentally breaking an egg yolk on what was supposed to have been an egg sunnyside up. 

When I was about six months pregnant at age 20, he pushed me down steps and shortly after that I was able to sneak away and leave him. 

There just are no words for that existence. 

   

[Chocolate Lover]

Sept 11, 2014 11:07:36 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Reports are saying the NFL has had this video for several months now but only reacted once the video was made public. 

Well duh! Isn't that how pretty much any business works

[Angel!]

Sept 11, 2014 10:43:13 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 11, 2014 8:20:03 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I have watched the video a bunch of times.  Was the response disproportionate?  

I'm not saying what he did was okay.  I am just not sure it was disproportionate.  As I said before, I think she was knocked out because she hit the bar in the elevator.  

It was disproportionate. 

 Absolutely

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 9, 2014 15:50:30 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

What makes me sad is the NFL did nothing until the video came out. There were more before him, and he won't be the last. What we really need is the rest of society to step up and say this is unacceptable and start treating it like the serious issue that it is. You can say the victim is stupid all you want to, but the reality is that he chose to hit her and he should face consequences for it. No one deserves to be treated like that. If she's mouthy and annoying, then her and move on. It's no excuse to ever physically harm someone. 

I don't understand this statement. Why is it the NFL's responsibility to do anything?  He is a football player. 

[muttleynfelix]

Sept 11, 2014 11:37:15 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 9, 2014 15:50:30 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

What makes me sad is the NFL did nothing until the video came out. There were more before him, and he won't be the last. What we really need is the rest of society to step up and say this is unacceptable and start treating it like the serious issue that it is. You can say the victim is stupid all you want to, but the reality is that he chose to hit her and he should face consequences for it. No one deserves to be treated like that. If she's mouthy and annoying, then her and move on. It's no excuse to ever physically harm someone. 

I don't understand this statement. Why is it the NFL's responsibility to do anything?  He is a football player. 

They have a code of conduct.  When they said that they did not see the video, they suspended him for 2 games for violating the COC.  After that, but before the video came out, the backlash from the 2 game "punishment" was that they updated their COC so that a domestic violence suspension is now 6 games for the first offense and indefinite for the second. After the video came out, the Ravens cut him and the league then suspended him indefinitely.  

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 11, 2014 11:37:15 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 9, 2014 15:50:30 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

What makes me sad is the NFL did nothing until the video came out. There were more before him, and he won't be the last. What we really need is the rest of society to step up and say this is unacceptable and start treating it like the serious issue that it is. You can say the victim is stupid all you want to, but the reality is that he chose to hit her and he should face consequences for it. No one deserves to be treated like that. If she's mouthy and annoying, then her and move on. It's no excuse to ever physically harm someone. 

I don't understand this statement. Why is it the NFL's responsibility to do anything?  He is a football player. 

The problem is that the NFL and NFL teams have morals clauses in their player contracts and players have been suspended and disciplined for non-violent acts.  

So it is a public relations problems when a player get a bigger suspension for tweeting something stupid, versus knocking a woman out with a punch. 

[Miss Tequila]

I didn't realize the NFL has morals clauses (I don't watch sports or pay much attention to them). I'm thinking more as an employer. What one of my employees does on their own time is on them.  I only have women working for me but if one of them were to punch their husband I wouldn't fire them.  

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 11, 2014 11:47:28 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I didn't realize the NFL has morals clauses (I don't watch sports or pay much attention to them). I'm thinking more as an employer. What one of my employees does on their own time is on them.  I only have women working for me but if one of them were to punch their husband I wouldn't fire them.  

I hear ya.    The company I work for rehired a former employer who had to stop working because he was in jail for 19 months for child porn.   I bet the NFL would have trouble doing that. 

BUT they did rehire Micheal Vick.   If you do your time, they do forgive. 

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 11, 2014 11:52:13 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 11, 2014 11:47:28 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I didn't realize the NFL has morals clauses (I don't watch sports or pay much attention to them). I'm thinking more as an employer. What one of my employees does on their own time is on them.  I only have women working for me but if one of them were to punch their husband I wouldn't fire them.  

I hear ya.    The company I work for rehired a former employer who had to stop working because he was in jail for 19 months for child porn.   I bet the NFL would have trouble doing that. 

As a parent, that one I would have a hard time with.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 11, 2014 11:53:24 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 11, 2014 11:52:13 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

I hear ya.    The company I work for rehired a former employer who had to stop working because he was in jail for 19 months for child porn.   I bet the NFL would have trouble doing that. 

As a parent, that one I would have a hard time with.

Yea.   I guess my point is employers that hire normal people who are not in the public eye don't have the same pressure on them that employers who hire highly public figures do. 

[Sam_2.0]

What happens on my own time can still affect my job. They changed our employee conduct manual recently to say that if we were in an accident in our own vehicles on our own time, and the accident was caused by us texting & driving, then we would face disciplinary action from our employer up to & including termination. And obviously if it happened while we were in a work vehicle then there's no question that we would be terminated immediately.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 11, 2014 11:55:37 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 11, 2014 11:53:24 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

As a parent, that one I would have a hard time with.

Yea.   I guess my point is employers that hire normal people who are not in the public eye don't have the same pressure on them that employers who hire highly public figures do. 

I totally agree...just saying that I'm ok employing a wife beater but not a pedophile!

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 11, 2014 12:47:50 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 11, 2014 11:55:37 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Yea.   I guess my point is employers that hire normal people who are not in the public eye don't have the same pressure on them that employers who hire highly public figures do. 

I totally agree...just saying that I'm ok employing a wife beater but not a pedophile!

LOL.   

[NancysSummerSip]

Sept 11, 2014 13:12:54 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Well we conduct background checks on prospective new hires and I believe we do not hire convicted felons.  So if I committed a felony crime even on my own time, I'm pretty sure I would be fired.   But maybe I should see if could take an unpaid leave of absence to serve my prison sentence...

<<PMs MM instructions on how to make jailhouse hootch while she's there.>>

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 11, 2014 13:12:54 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Well we conduct background checks on prospective new hires and I believe we do not hire convicted felons.  So if I committed a felony crime even on my own time, I'm pretty sure I would be fired.   But maybe I should see if could take an unpaid leave of absence to serve my prison sentence...

But he wasn't convicted of a felony. 

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 11, 2014 13:24:16 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 11, 2014 13:12:54 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Well we conduct background checks on prospective new hires and I believe we do not hire convicted felons.  So if I committed a felony crime even on my own time, I'm pretty sure I would be fired.   But maybe I should see if could take an unpaid leave of absence to serve my prison sentence...

But he wasn't convicted of a felony. 

He wasn't convicted of anything. 

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Sept 11, 2014 12:01:46 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

What happens on my own time can still affect my job. They changed our employee conduct manual recently to say that if we were in an accident in our own vehicles on our own time, and the accident was caused by us texting & driving, then we would face disciplinary action from our employer up to & including termination. And obviously if it happened while we were in a work vehicle then there's no question that we would be terminated immediately.

I think it should depend on the job & how the conduct affects the job.  If you work at a desk in a position where you would never be in a capacity to drive for the company, why do they care if you are in an accident while texting? If the job doesn't require the ability to drive, it should be none of the company's business IMHO.  Would the person who has no license and takes the bus to work face disciplinary action?

Same thing with the child porn.  I find it horrific and think people who deal in/use child porn should be stoned to death.  But, since we don't do that in this country, we have these people who have served their sentences and have to work somewhere. Obviously, a daycare or Chuck E CHeese wouldn't be appropriate.  I would say they shouldn't even be allowed to work a McD's (play place) or Walmart (lots of families).  But if they are at a company that has NO contact with children (now or ever), why not hire them?

[swamp]

I work for myself, but if I go out and catch a felony, the NYS attorney licensing board will have plenty to say about my job.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 11, 2014 13:45:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

I work for myself, but if I go out and catch a felony, the NYS attorney licensing board will have plenty to say about my job.

I would also lose my CPA license if convicted of a felony.  But being a douche bag without a conviction means I keep my job as long as said douchiness doesn't impact my ability to do my job.

[swamp]

Sept 11, 2014 13:55:49 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 11, 2014 13:45:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

I work for myself, but if I go out and catch a felony, the NYS attorney licensing board will have plenty to say about my job.

I would also lose my CPA license if convicted of a felony.  But being a douche bag without a conviction means I keep my job as long as said douchiness doesn't impact my ability to do my job.

The felony arrest can result in disbarment without a conviction, depending on the allegations.