Deputy shoots daughter in garage- charges? Self-defense?

[EVT1]

Another accident of course- but doesn't a cop know you don't shoot at shadows?  Sounds like a dangerous person to have on the police force.

www.wtop.com/159/3682709/Police-Virginia-deputy-shot-daughter-crashed-car

     A Virginia deputy sheriff shot his 16-year-old daughter after mistaking her for an intruder, then crashed his car as he rushed her to the hospital, authorities said.  "He figured someone had broken into the garage, and his family was upstairs asleep," Lang said.

Armed with his privately owned gun -- not his service weapon -- McDonald fired, Lang said.

"Then he hears her voice and recognizes that it's his daughter," he said

So is he going to claim self-defense?  This should be interesting- at least she's ok.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Do you go looking for these stories in an effort to show cops as horrible people?

BTW, your link isn't working - try this one.

www.wtop.com/41/3682709/Police-Virginia-deputy-shot-daughter-crashed-car

It also states in the article that he was responding to the alarm ( home-security system) and saw the shadow in the garage when he went to investigate.

If the activated security system hadn't been triggered, it wouldn't have happened. No doubt the teen knew how to shut-off/de-activate the security system when entering the home. She probably was trying to sneak in (out after curfew?) and didn't check to see if it was even turned on.

[Deleted]

Maybe if his daughter had been upstairs in bed... where she was supposed to be... this wouldn't have happened.

It's tragic, but it's totally self defense if an unknown person is in your home and you shoot them in your home.

[EVT1]

Aug 17, 2014 18:00:15 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Do you go looking for these stories in an effort to show cops as horrible people?

BTW, your link isn't working - try this one.

www.wtop.com/41/3682709/Police-Virginia-deputy-shot-daughter-crashed-car

It also states in the article that he was responding to the alarm ( home-security system) and saw the shadow in the garage when he went to investigate.

If the activated security system hadn't been triggered, it wouldn't have happened. No doubt the teen knew how to shut-off/de-activate the security system when entering the home. She probably was trying to sneak in (out after curfew?) and didn't check to see if it was even turned on.

Nope- was front page news. If I wanted to post an article everytime some family member got shot by a retarded gun owner or cops were horrible I could post two a day at least.

So in your estimation the daughter asked to be shot- it is her fault right?  I have no problems with cops- I have problems with people that misrepresent my position on things.  So here we are- is it the cop's fault for shooting at a target he could not identify or the daughter's fault for being a fucking teenager?  There is a reason the statistics plainly state a gun in the house is more likely to end up shooting a family member than a burglar, robber, etc.  Defend that shit all you want.  I am well armed, have a shotgun at the ready and can assure you I am not going to shoot a family member- so give his dumb ass a pass if you want.

Point remains- he will have to claim self-defense to get out of it- which makes it interesting to me.  Not interesting to you then don't post.

[Opti]

Do you go looking for these stories in an effort to show cops as horrible people?

Are you new to P&M?

[ZaireinHD]

cops are horrible people 1
second I do have a thing against cops
cops are constantly killing unarmed people
they go on trial and found not guilty
which it appears that this treatment goes towards security watch and security guards as well!

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Aug 17, 2014 23:13:06 GMT -5 ZaireinHD said:

cops are horrible people 1
second I do have a thing against cops
cops are constantly killing unarmed people
they go on trial and found not guilty
which it appears that this treatment goes towards security watch and security guards as well!

I/we already knew your dislike for police. You've expressed it often enough here since joining.

Maybe if you didn't constantly break the rules of the road by speeding & other driving infractions, illegal crap on your cars etc etc, the cops wouldn't have a reason to pull you over or fine you so you have to go to court. I'm surprised you still have a DL with the number of times you've been cited - and that's just from the incidents you've admitted to here. There's probably more.

I have a high respect for law enforcement - they have a tough enough job as it is, putting their life on the line every day that they walk out their door. They keep the law abiding citizens of society safe from the idiocy around us.

If more people would stop doing shit to get themselves in trouble in the first place (robberies, home invasions, murders, reckless driving, speeding, etc) - then the police wouldn't need to take action as often as they need to in this day & age.

I have friends/family who've lost a loved one, brother, father who was a police officer that was killed in the line of duty - because it's the job they signed up for - to serve & protect - yet they and their fellow officers get so little respect in many areas.

I'm not saying there aren't some "bad cops" - but they're few and far between compared to those who risk their lives daily to protect the citizens of their jurisdiction.

The good stories of their heroism don't get nearly enough press-time compared to these "cop-bashing" stories.

[ZaireinHD]

believe me Scottish Lassie I do realize cops have a tough job
I realize cops bad press coverage get 99% more coverage compared to good cop actions
I do realize that you have friends that are cops

cops should NOT be on the force for so many years - same for emergency 911 operators
people are not equipped or can withstand the punishment these jobs bring.
with the constant dealing with bad people all fucking day everyday
eventually people - cops WILL break
cops make bad choices and decisions all the time everyday and it gets worse the longer they stay on the force

[ZaireinHD]

as for my personal driving record - the police have to prove I did something wrong! 1
secondly I DO show up to court -the asshat cop has to prove I did something wrong!
it used to be cops will not show up to court and I have to show up to court 3 times
by the third time the court has ME come back and the cop STILL doesn't show up my case and charge is dismissed!

meaning the COP was just writing tickets! the court is redfaced - for the cop not showing up!
thankfully I can still get paid from missing work on days I had to miss work just to sit in court all fucking day
but that's ok cause sitting in court is very interesting seeing the other cases and how people are being railroaded and how there stupid ass lawyers botch their case! when I sit in court all day - there are sooo many people I could help - dam near all of them.

and when I do go to trial I still put on a case that shows the cop is just guessing there is no prof and I win some of my trials!

but all that stupid shit has pretty much stopped unless I'm pulled over by some teenage cop!

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Aug 17, 2014 23:50:40 GMT -5 ZaireinHD said:

believe me Scottish Lassie I do realize cops have a tough job
I realize cops bad press coverage get 99% more coverage compared to good cop actions
I do realize that you have friends that are cops

cops should NOT be on the force for so many years - same for emergency 911 operators
people are not equipped or can withstand the punishment these jobs bring.
with the constant dealing with bad people all fucking day everyday
eventually people - cops WILL break
cops make bad choices and decisions all the time everyday and it gets worse the longer they stay on the force

That makes no sense.

The officers get promoted to special units (SWAT teams, etc), from first serving as Constable then promotion to higher rankings, such as Sgt or Special Units (SWAT, Detective, etc) and up to Chief through experience and years served on the force.

A Police officer with experience is less likely to react on impulse than a "green" officer.

In my City (over 1 million population) the Police are very professional, polite and well-respected. The crime rate here is also low compared to other Cities our size or larger (or even smaller in many cases).

There are few officers here who get demoted or canned due to abusing their power - because it's so rare. We have many decorated officers on our force because of their heroic actions in some pretty critical situations.

You don't like police - and you've said as much many times. Fine - but that's only because of the stuff you've been caught doing that you shouldn't have been doing in the first place.

[ZaireinHD]

so in your world as you appear police are the greatest thing since sliced bread?
good for you Scottich Lassie



I'm very glad EVT1 post bad police press

here is a news link for the area I live in
Newark New Jersey Police Department Investigation

New Jersey's largest police department will be placed under federal oversight for repeatedly violating residents' civil rights, using excessive force and failing to discipline officers for a wide range of misconduct, the Justice Department announced Tuesday.

Another link not just one ot 2 cops the ENTIRE city

The Newark Police Department, a 1,000-member force that patrols one of the most violent cities in the Northeast, will be subject to court-ordered reform, a move that comes after a three-year investigation into rampant misconduct in the agency, according to the Justice Department and court documents.

so don't tell me it's just me and my personal view Scottish Lassie

Newark will become the first municipal police agency in state history to operate under a federal watchdog — and the 13th in the nation — in just the latest development in a decades-long pattern of oversight.

[ZaireinHD]

cops do what the hell they want - they kill unarmed people  - they cover each other - they break the laws themselves (texting and driving / running red lights for non emergencies) - over step boundaries - and after dealing with law breakers at and all levels of breaking the law day in and day out cops feel everybody is a law breaker and they go overboard with excessive force!
 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Aug 18, 2014 0:33:12 GMT -5 ZaireinHD said:

so in your world as you appear police are the greatest thing since sliced bread?
good for you Scottich Lassie

Where in any of my posts did I say that? I did say that there are some bad cops here - but they're far & few between.

Maybe if you didn't live in such a violent, crime-infested area (according to your links), you'd have a different perspective of the Police. The officers in your area have an even tougher job due to the rate of crime & violence - hence they have to be more aggressive.

From your link:

The Newark Police Department, a 1,000-member force that patrols one of the most violent cities in the Northeast

[Opti]

Yes there are parts of Newark its best not to be in.

I remember when I worked at Macy's hearing about someone who

got killed in Newark over a government benefit check.

Luckily for lovers of culture, parts of Newark do have a strong

police presence.

[ZaireinHD]

Maybe if you didn't live in such a violent, crime-infested area

- OUCH!!!

ok
1- I don't know what you're reading or shows up on your computer screen Scottish Lassie to come up with that comment
2- EVT1 your link works just fine for me - but I guess not for Scottish Lassie
3-

The officers in your area have an even tougher job due to the rate of crime & violence - hence they have to be more aggressive.

that was my point that there are just MORE so much MORE than 1 or 2 cops that are bad apples. that you keep saying it's only one or few that you can understand. it's much more outside of your fantasy model citizen area that have bad cops. also the other link mentions Newark is 13th in the USA that has so many bad cops it has gone under Federal Government control.

4- this very thread when using the link EVT1 posted goes to a news story that a cop not only killed an unarmed person but his very own daughter and it happened in Virginia USA. my personal experience with Virginia State Troopers are horrible as well. with stories of ripping out built in radar detectors out of vehicles because they are illegal in Virginia.

is this clear enough for you to understand that it is so much more than just a few bad seeds of police departments.
as EVT1 also mentioned there new stories of bad cops that can be found much easier than good cop stories

and by the way I don't live in Newark New Jersey!
(not anymore at least - )

[ZaireinHD]

Aug 18, 2014 7:08:19 GMT -5 Opti said:

Yes there are parts of Newark its best not to be in.

I remember when I worked at Macy's hearing about someone who

got killed in Newark over a government benefit check.

Luckily for lovers of culture, parts of Newark do have a strong

police presence.

yes true Opti - very true
PAC - Performing Arts Center and the Prudential Arena
are under heavy police protection in hopes people will come out and move past their fears of going to see events in the area and maybe do some shopping in that downtown area.

[mmhmm]

I've got to say, ZaireinHD, if an officer pulls me over for a traffic infraction, he's not going to have to prove he had a reason to pull me over. I know for sure if he did, or didn't. I know whether I was breaking the law, or not. If I was, I've got the integrity to admit to it right then and there.

[mollyanna58]

Getting back to the original issue, the news article doesn't say whether the deputy said anything to the intruder, or just shot first.   

[ZaireinHD]

Hmmm... if I was
sticks out mmHmm

if I was meaning you recognize that there is a possibility that you are or could be pulled over for something that you didn't do?

or how about being pulled over for something that you didn't know you actually did?
or being pulled over for something that you didn't know was against the law in your area?
or how about you are out of state and getting pulled over for something you didn't know was against the law in that state?

my point is police will do what ever they feel like doing. Police will take it to extremes depending on the mood of the day.

so - that's great - you have no issue with police giving you a ticket or hauling you off to jail because you know you were in the wrong.
in NJ we are allowed to make right turns when the light is red.
BUT in New York that is Illegal

[ZaireinHD]

Aug 18, 2014 11:38:34 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Getting back to the original issue, the news article doesn't say whether the deputy said anything to the intruder, or just shot first.   

a security alarm sounded at about 3:30 a.m. Tuesday at the Winchester home of Easton McDonald, a sergeant with the Loudoun County Sheriff's Office. He said McDonald, responding to the alarm, saw the dark shape of a person advancing through the garage door and fired. "He figured someone had broken into the garage, and his family was upstairs asleep," Lang said.

sounds like he shot first?

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Aug 18, 2014 11:45:03 GMT -5 ZaireinHD said:

a security alarm sounded at about 3:30 a.m. Tuesday at the Winchester home of Easton McDonald, a sergeant with the Loudoun County Sheriff's Office. He said McDonald, responding to the alarm, saw the dark shape of a person advancing through the garage door and fired. "He figured someone had broken into the garage, and his family was upstairs asleep," Lang said.

sounds like he shot first?

I'm so glad we have this emot:


It was 3:30 am - he was awakened by his home-security alarm going off - and he went to investigate.

At 3:30 in the morning, he presumed his family (including his teen daughter) were all in bed (where she should have been). He didn't know she'd left the house - when he saw the shadow/figure in the darkness, of course he thought it was an intruder. He was protecting his home and his family - he had no idea his kid had snuck out of the house without telling him.

He was acting acting not in the capacity of a police officer, but as a citizen/husband/father - protecting his home & family from a possible break-in.

The fact that he's a policeman is irrelevant to what happened - and shouldn't be the focus of the story at all.

[mmhmm]

Aug 18, 2014 11:40:48 GMT -5 ZaireinHD said:

Hmmm... if I was
sticks out mmHmm

if I was meaning you recognize that there is a possibility that you are or could be pulled over for something that you didn't do?

or how about being pulled over for something that you didn't know you actually did?
or being pulled over for something that you didn't know was against the law in your area?
or how about you are out of state and getting pulled over for something you didn't know was against the law in that state?

my point is police will do what ever they feel like doing. Police will take it to extremes depending on the mood of the day.

so - that's great - you have no issue with police giving you a ticket or hauling you off to jail because you know you were in the wrong.
in NJ we are allowed to make right turns when the light is red.
BUT in New York that is Illegal

It's my responsibility to know the law. If I'm driving in another state, it's still my responsibility to know the law. I've had no problems with law enforcement "hauling me off to jail". If I broke the law, I admit to it. They'll either give me a ticket, or they won't. Except for once, they have chosen not to do so. I have been pulled over once, as well, when I wasn't breaking the law; however, that was long ago and was a problem with the police department in question that was investigated about a week after I was pulled over. It hit all the papers at the time.

When you've spoken of incidents in the past, Zaire, you've admitted you knew you were breaking the law. That's not to say you've never had an incident where you weren't breaking the law; however, you've said you'll break the law if you want to. They'll ticket you if you do - if they want to. The less you cooperate, the more likely they are to want to.

[Deleted]

Assuming that this guy loved his daughter and wasn't some psycho that wanted to kill his kid, there isn't any punishment we could impose that would be worse than what his family will put him through or what he will put himself through.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Aug 18, 2014 17:16:20 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Assuming that this guy loved his daughter and wasn't some psycho that wanted to kill his kid, there isn't any punishment we could impose that would be worse than what his family will put him through or what he will put himself through.

There's no reason to assume he doesn't love his daughter or that he's a possible psycho - it's all in the link story - that after accidentally shooting his own kid (not knowing it was his kid in the shadows), he was in the process of rushing her to the hospital when the car accident happened.

The teen isn't dead. Once she up to being interviewed, no doubt it will be confirmed that she was sneaking back into the house at 3:30 in the morning. Some excerpts from the link:

Sounds like he's' very distraught that this happened at all, but again, the girl had snuck out - he didn't know she wasn't asleep in the house, where she should have been. The home-security alarm got triggered, and he took action - suspecting a possible home-invasion.

A Virginia deputy sheriff shot his 16-year-old daughter after mistaking her for an intruder, then crashed his car as he rushed her to the hospital, authorities said.

According to investigators, McDonald grabbed his daughter, who had been returning home after apparently sneaking out, and called 911 to report that he was taking her to the hospital. En route, McDonald lost control of his car and hit a barricade, damaging the front of the vehicle but causing no additional injuries to his daughter or to himself, Lang said

The teenager was in stable condition at a Winchester hospital, according to media reports.

[EVT1]

Aug 18, 2014 15:23:45 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Aug 18, 2014 11:45:03 GMT -5 ZaireinHD said:

 

I'm so glad we have this emot:


It was 3:30 am - he was awakened by his home-security alarm going off - and he went to investigate.

At 3:30 in the morning, he presumed his family (including his teen daughter) were all in bed (where she should have been). He didn't know she'd left the house - when he saw the shadow/figure in the darkness, of course he thought it was an intruder. He was protecting his home and his family - he had no idea his kid had snuck out of the house without telling him.

He was acting acting not in the capacity of a police officer, but as a citizen/husband/father - protecting his home & family from a possible break-in.

The fact that he's a policeman is irrelevant to what happened - and shouldn't be the focus of the story at all.

I think it is very relevant- police should know better.  If you cannot tell who or what a target is- how can you identify it as a threat?

It's kind of a basic part of the job.

I guess the real question is- is it ok now to just shoot at shadow people or anything moving? I don't get it- of course I understand that an intruder in the house carries a presumption of intent to do harm- but isn't it the responsibility of the home owner to determine that it is an intruder first before shooting?  I think it is.  Would you pull the trigger on someone or something you could not identify?

[Deleted]

In an intruder situation, if you wait until you are 100% certain, you could be 100% dead.

I hate the "what if" game... but... what if it had been an armed intruder... and the intruder had seen the shadow of the deputy... waiting to positively identify the intruder AS an intruder could have resulted in dead deputy AND dead family.

[Deleted]

Personally I like the idea of "How about kids be in their beds when they are supposed to and things like this won't happen."

[EVT1]

Aug 18, 2014 19:44:26 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

In an intruder situation, if you wait until you are 100% certain, you could be 100% dead.

I hate the "what if" game... but... what if it had been an armed intruder... and the intruder had seen the shadow of the deputy... waiting to positively identify the intruder AS an intruder could have resulted in dead deputy AND dead family.

This is about 0% certain though- plus it was in the garage, not the house so I assume he opened the door and went out there.

Say you don't have an alarm- is it ok to shoot at a shadow coming up the stairs?  Same kind of thing.

I also disagree with the what if/armed intruder thing. Sure it could happen- but the huge majority of these do not end up with a family massacre.  Some do, but if you are one to play the odds it is the wiser choice to identify what or who you are shooting at.  I think most people would do so- I know I would- especially with a teenager in the house- they are an unpredictable bunch.

[Deleted]

Aug 18, 2014 19:57:09 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Aug 18, 2014 19:44:26 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

In an intruder situation, if you wait until you are 100% certain, you could be 100% dead.

I hate the "what if" game... but... what if it had been an armed intruder... and the intruder had seen the shadow of the deputy... waiting to positively identify the intruder AS an intruder could have resulted in dead deputy AND dead family.

This is about 0% certain though- plus it was in the garage, not the house so I assume he opened the door and went out there.

Say you don't have an alarm- is it ok to shoot at a shadow coming up the stairs?  Same kind of thing.

I also disagree with the what if/armed intruder thing. Sure it could happen- but the huge majority of these do not end up with a family massacre.  Some do, but if you are one to play the odds it is the wiser choice to identify what or who you are shooting at.  I think most people would do so- I know I would- especially with a teenager in the house- they are an unpredictable bunch.

Ain't hindsight great.

NOW we know it's 0% certain. THEN he didn't know that.

ETA: sorry, posted too soon... 
He DID have an alarm. Something his teenage daughter SHOULD have known. (or maybe she should have just been in bed, where she was supposed to be), so no, it's not "same kind of thing". Someone coming up the stairs without an alarm going off could reasonably be one of the kids getting a cookie from the kitchen.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Forget for a moment that he's a police officer... as I said before it's really irrelevant. The media is using that to sensationalize the incident and create one more cop-bashing story.

He is a father, husband and home-owner. It's 3:30 am - and the security alarm gets triggered -he's under the understanding that his family (including the teen daughter) are in bed, like he was.

Wouldn't your first instinct in the middle of the night be: "home-invasion", "someone trying to break-in" ??

He didn't know his kid had sneaked out - he grabs his (personal) weapon (not his service revolver), sees a shadow moving in the garage - a shot is fired.

Yes, he could have announced he was armed and to retreat - but in that same few seconds, he was also a target and could have just as quickly been fired at if it had been an intruder. As far as he knew it was a stranger breaking into his private residence.

Fortunately the teen did not die - and at latest word, was in stable condition. It's tragic that it was her, and it's something that's going to be a struggle for the entire family to work through - but I don't see this as a criminal case or even a reason to press charges. He was defending his home & family.

Most of you keep overlooking the fact that the teen had snuck out and the parents were unaware she wasn't even in the house (where she was supposed to be) at that hour.