EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Aug 18, 2014 20:37:24 GMT -5
It's a simple question really- is it ok to shoot at someone you cannot identify or determine is a threat or not?
Should he be charged with a crime?
This is a case of the law taking the law into their own hands
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Aug 18, 2014 20:41:30 GMT -5
Probably could have waited by the door instead of going into the garage- maybe turned the light on. Probably would have been on notice when the 'intruder' used a key
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 5:45:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 21:19:25 GMT -5
Forget for a moment that he's a police officer... as I said before it's really irrelevant. The media is using that to sensationalize the incident and create one more cop-bashing story.
He is a father, husband and home-owner. It's 3:30 am - and the security alarm gets triggered -he's under the understanding that his family (including the teen daughter) are in bed, like he was.
Wouldn't your first instinct in the middle of the night be: "home-invasion", "someone trying to break-in" ??
He didn't know his kid had sneaked out - he grabs his (personal) weapon (not his service revolver), sees a shadow moving in the garage - a shot is fired.
Yes, he could have announced he was armed and to retreat - but in that same few seconds, he was also a target and could have just as quickly been fired at if it had been an intruder. As far as he knew it was a stranger breaking into his private residence.
Fortunately the teen did not die - and at latest word, was in stable condition. It's tragic that it was her, and it's something that's going to be a struggle for the entire family to work through - but I don't see this as a criminal case or even a reason to press charges. He was defending his home & family.
Most of you keep overlooking the fact that the teen had snuck out and the parents were unaware she wasn't even in the house (where she was supposed to be) at that hour.
That's part of what I like to call the "overlook anyone else's participation in the events, and just focus on the final participant" outlook that many people have when it comes to most things. (I'm on your side on this!) Let's dissect this and see what could have changed the outcome: Final step: He could have NOT shot before ascertaining who it actually was Step before that: She could have NOT walked into the garage AFTER she triggered the alarm. Step before that: She could have NOT triggered the alarm. Step before that: She could have NOT been trying to sneak in. Step before that: She could have NOT been out without their knowledge. Now... the way I see it, the daughter has MUCH more culpability in what happened than the father does. The Father has ONE point that he could have changed what happened, the daughter has (at least) FOUR points.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 5:45:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 21:21:52 GMT -5
It's a simple question really- is it ok to shoot at someone you cannot identify or determine is a threat or not?
Should he be charged with a crime?
This is a case of the law taking the law into their own hands When you have a reasonable belief that the person MAY be an intruder... and your family SHOULD be out of the line of fire? I think, yes. You should be. Especially when one considers the possible outcome of a home invasion. How is "defending one's family" a crime? What should he be charged with in your opinion? No, this is a case of a Father protecting his family... as SL said, the fact that it happened to be a cop is totally irrelevant.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 5:45:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 21:23:34 GMT -5
Probably could have waited by the door instead of going into the garage- maybe turned the light on. Probably would have been on notice when the 'intruder' used a key I'm guessing you don't know how easy it is to pick a lock... Contrary to popular belief... locks aren't that hard to pick.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Aug 18, 2014 21:42:12 GMT -5
No it isn't!! He wasn't on duty - therefore he was a private citizen in his own private residence - no different than you or me would be in our own home. Forget that he's a police officer. From day one, the media should have reported this story as "FATHER Accidentally Shoots Daughter in Garage".
As I stated earlier, the media is sensationalizing the fact that he's a police officer. That's irrelevant. He was a FATHER/home-owner whose home security system had been breached in the middle of the night. Plain and simple.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 5:45:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 21:46:18 GMT -5
LOL... SL you have ambitious goals if you expect the news media to care about pesky things like facts... when they can sensationalize something just by adding irrelevancy to the story!
|
|
ZaireinHD
Senior Associate
Joined: Mar 4, 2011 22:14:27 GMT -5
Posts: 12,407
|
Post by ZaireinHD on Aug 18, 2014 22:19:30 GMT -5
oh well here we have a father whose job is a police officer. he was not on the job also he did NOT use his police issued gun he is a private citizen using his own gun if he was NOT a police officer - hell yea charges would be pending but his job is a police officer there will not be any charges brought up the ...his daughter is alive and recovering his brothers in blue will say ok some harm but no foul go home and take care of your daughter then some of his closest buddies in blue may tease him and say that will teach her for trying to sneak back in!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 5:45:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 22:29:21 GMT -5
oh well here we have a father whose job is a police officer. he was not on the job also he did NOT use his police issued gun he is a private citizen using his own gun if he was NOT a police officer - hell yea charges would be pendingbut his job is a police officer there will not be any charges brought up the ...his daughter is alive and recovering his brothers in blue will say ok some harm but no foul go home and take care of your daughter then some of his closest buddies in blue may tease him and say that will teach her for trying to sneak back in! No. They probably wouldn't be. The shooting was justifiable, even if the outcome of firing the gun was less than desirable.
|
|
ZaireinHD
Senior Associate
Joined: Mar 4, 2011 22:14:27 GMT -5
Posts: 12,407
|
Post by ZaireinHD on Aug 18, 2014 22:40:32 GMT -5
oh right! that's right - the whole it's ok to shoot another person in your home guess Oscar Pistorius thought the same thing when he shot his girlfriend and killed her - OH Wait my mistake again that was in South Africa
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 5:45:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 22:47:34 GMT -5
oh right! that's right - the whole it's ok to shoot another person in your home guess Oscar Pistorius thought the same thing when he shot his girlfriend and killed her - OH Wait my mistake again that was in South Africa Interesting take on that, and not even a remotely comparable situation. No. It's not "ok to shoot another person in your home"... but it IS o.k. to shoot to protect your family when your alarm goes off and you see someone where there shouldn't be someone.
|
|
ZaireinHD
Senior Associate
Joined: Mar 4, 2011 22:14:27 GMT -5
Posts: 12,407
|
Post by ZaireinHD on Aug 18, 2014 23:17:28 GMT -5
I understand Richard
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Aug 18, 2014 23:20:34 GMT -5
No. They probably wouldn't be. The shooting was justifiable, even if the outcome of firing the gun was less than desirable. Based on what exactly? Are you claiming you can claim self-defense if you exit your home into a garage and shoot whatever moves?
Please explain that- I was in fear for my life because.................
This is a crime whether you agree with it or not- an innocent person was shot and in no way was the shooter in danger of death or great bodily harm. He should at the least lose his job.
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Aug 18, 2014 23:23:59 GMT -5
oh right! that's right - the whole it's ok to shoot another person in your home guess Oscar Pistorius thought the same thing when he shot his girlfriend and killed her - OH Wait my mistake again that was in South Africa I'm with you on that bullshit- he's a murderer.
I am fucking sick of this 'I was scared' bullshit being used as an excuse to gun down unarmed people.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Aug 18, 2014 23:47:13 GMT -5
It was 3:30 am - his home-security alarm got triggered. His daughter (16) was supposed to be at home, in her bed, sleeping - HE didn't know she'd snuck out (probably against the rules of the house, and her parents).
He goes to investigate what set the alarm off. He is a home-owner/family man at this point - NOT on duty (and the fact that he's a police officer has nothing to do with it ). If he was a Doctor, plumber or accountant, it would make no difference.
He sees shadows/movement in his garage. That's reason enough to take action if you're sanctuary and family are under possible danger from an intruder/break-in.
He also dialed 911 immediately after it happened and was rushing to get his wounded daughter to the hospital.
She's alive - she's in stable condition - when interviewed, the FACTS will come out - but you, EVT and Zaire, keep wanting to ignore what actually took place and see it as a 'bad' or 'hot-headed' cop issue.
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Aug 19, 2014 0:18:06 GMT -5
So that's a yes- it is perfectly OK to shoot at moving shadows. So self-defense law has now been redefined by a paranoid person- OK to kill someone if you are scared.
Get the fuck out of here- he went into the garage by choice. Of course he cares- so would I if I shot my own daughter because I was a dumbass. It's not a bad cop issue- and you have a habit of claiming that one me- it is an irresponsible gun owner issue.
So tell me- in your utmost wisdom- when it is OK to shoot at an unidentified target. NEVER! I could give a shit how fast he ran to the emergency room- the reason for that is his because he was at fault. Anyone that defends this is less than human to me..
What facts do you expect anyway "dad shot me'- that is about it. Forget it. Believe what the fuck ever.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 19, 2014 1:03:52 GMT -5
"It was self defense officer, I saw something move."
Only in America. I wonder how his neighbors would feel having shots fired into their homes if the shadow had been a cat or something.
You'd think a police officer would be better trained to identify a threat/target before firing a weapon.
|
|
truthbound
Familiar Member
Joined: Mar 1, 2014 6:01:51 GMT -5
Posts: 814
|
Post by truthbound on Aug 19, 2014 4:10:37 GMT -5
cops do what the hell they want - they kill unarmed people - they cover each other - they break the laws themselves (texting and driving / running red lights for non emergencies) - over step boundaries - and after dealing with law breakers at and all levels of breaking the law day in and day out cops feel everybody is a law breaker and they go overboard with excessive force! Jesus....you hate cops we get it. It was an accident. It should be treated as such.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Aug 19, 2014 7:30:07 GMT -5
No kidding. Cops aren't my favorite people on earth either but I don't hate them with the vehemence shown here. It's sick and its sad. I only thought career criminals felt that way. Or wanna be's.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 5:45:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 8:54:43 GMT -5
People are spooked and on edge. Yes, this was an accident, but very likely it could have been an actual intruder.
If I saw the shadow of someone in my house or garage who should NOT be there, you can bet your booty I'd shoot. Of course not to kill, but he or she would end up walking with a serious limp for quite some time.
The one who should be feeling bad right now is the daughter, who was obviously doing something she should NOT have been doing.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Aug 19, 2014 10:53:37 GMT -5
This gives a whole new meaning to curfew, huh? I bet parents are reminding their kids what can happen if you sneak out!!
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Aug 19, 2014 11:00:57 GMT -5
"It was self defense officer, I saw something move." Only in America. I wonder how his neighbors would feel having shots fired into their homes if the shadow had been a cat or something. You'd think a police officer would be better trained to identify a threat/target before firing a weapon. Well, he could have fired because he could identify that it was a person in his garage and not a cat, he just couldn't verify who the person was. -- I wonder if the garage door was closed? If so then, not knowing it was his daughter, his house is actively being broken into.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,514
|
Post by Tennesseer on Aug 19, 2014 11:08:09 GMT -5
Not a police officer but she knew others were in the home: Woman shoots grandson; thought he was an intruderTAMPA, Fla. (AP) — Sheriff's deputies in Florida say a 7-year-old boy is in critical condition after his grandmother mistook him for an intruder and shot him. The shooting happened around 1 a.m. Tuesday in Tampa. According to Hillsborough County Sheriff's officials, 63-year-old Linda Maddox and her twin grandsons were sleeping after their father had left for work. Maddox told deputies she had placed a chair against the bedroom door handle for extra protection. When she heard the chair sliding against the floor, she assumed it was an intruder and grabbed a loaded .22-caliber revolver she keeps by the bed and fired one shot in the dark toward the door. Deputies say seconds later she heard the screams of her grandson Tyler Maddox. He was shot once in the upper body. He was taken to a hospital. Woman shoots grandson; thought he was an intruder
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 19, 2014 11:13:38 GMT -5
Technically his house was being broken into, but by his teenage daughter. Teens do stupid carp like sneak out and sneak back in. You'd think a cop, especially one holding a gun, would verbally challenge an intruder, or wait to shoot until they could see the intruder.
Poor guy is going to feel like shit about this for a very long time, and it doesn't reflect that highly on him as a police officer. If he'd been on duty and shot an unarmed suspect that he couldn't even see and wasn't threatening him he'd lose his badge and might be facing jail time.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Aug 19, 2014 11:44:12 GMT -5
It doesn't MATTER that he's an officer! He WASN'T on duty - it was the Middle Of the Night - In his PRIVATE residence, At the time of the shooting, he was a father, husband, and home-owner (not an officer) defending his own from who or whatever had tripped the security system at 3:30 AM.
This "bad cop" spin some are trying to put on it is really getting old.
That girl is also probably going to be carrying around a lot of guilt for a long time too - if she hadn't been out when she shouldn't have been, this whole thing would never have happened.
The father thought she was in the home, and in bed asleep - which is where she SHOULD have been to begin with.
|
|
mollyanna58
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 5, 2011 13:20:45 GMT -5
Posts: 6,668
|
Post by mollyanna58 on Aug 19, 2014 12:01:10 GMT -5
It doesn't MATTER that he's an officer! He WASN'T on duty - it was the Middle Of the Night - In his PRIVATE residence, At the time of the shooting, he was a father, husband, and home-owner (not an officer) defending his own from who or whatever had tripped the security system at 3:30 AM.
This "bad cop" spin some are trying to put on it is really getting old.
That girl is also probably going to be carrying around a lot of guilt for a long time too - if she hadn't been out when she shouldn't have been, this whole thing would never have happened.
The father thought she was in the home, and in bed asleep - which is where she SHOULD have been to begin with.
I'd like to assume that a law enforcement officer is better trained than the average homeowner with a gun. I hold police up to a higher standard. But I don't think he should be charged with a crime. And, yes, the girl shouldn't have snuck out, but on the list of possible consequences for getting caught, I'm sure that "get shot by Dad" never crossed her mind.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Aug 19, 2014 12:06:26 GMT -5
Sure as hell should have. How dumb can you get? My Dad wasnt a cop even but no one sneaks around at night in a house with guns.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Aug 19, 2014 12:34:19 GMT -5
And I'd like to assume that ANYONE who owns a gun is a responsible gun-owner - who's gone through proper training & safety courses - but that's not the case in the US .
Almost any Joe-Schmo can walk into a sporting goods store or gun shop and purchase a weapon with little more than a cursory background check (if that).
Here in Canada, it's different. When DH were participating in target-shooting, we both took training & safety courses first, and spent a lot of time at the firing range .
We also had to go through some fairly strict screening to even OWN handguns.
If more people had to do the same, it would no doubt greatly lower the statistics of incidents such as the one Tenn mentioned about the grandmother - and similar from even happening.
.
|
|
mollyanna58
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 5, 2011 13:20:45 GMT -5
Posts: 6,668
|
Post by mollyanna58 on Aug 19, 2014 12:51:41 GMT -5
If more people had to do the same, it would no doubt greatly lower the statistics of incidents such as the one Tenn mentioned about the grandmother - and similar from even happening.
. Honestly, I don't see much difference between the two cases. In the dad/daughter case, yes, there was a formal alarm system. In the grandmother/grandson case, she had rigged up a chair as a kind of informal alarm. In both cases, they shot first and asked questions later.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Aug 19, 2014 13:02:19 GMT -5
Why only quote that portion of my post. What I said before that is more important - that ANYONE who owns a weapon should have to go through proper safety & training courses.
You were saying that because he's an officer he should have known better.
Well, so should every gun-owner know better - but look how many tragic deaths occur year due to your average citizen gun-owner over-reacting or firing first - it's probably 1000-to-1 odds (or higher) for a joe-blow citizen to accidentally shoot someone - because they didn't take proper training & safety.
But lets just keep focusing on the fact this this father happens to be an officer of the law. If he'd been a plumber or carpenter or businessman, would you even be discussing that he should be held to a higher standard? I doubt it.
.
|
|