achelois
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Post by achelois on Aug 14, 2014 18:33:54 GMT -5
My older son threatened to call CPS on me once. I dialed the number for him. I cant remember what is was about, but I do know I was the meanest mom in the world. Still am.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Aug 14, 2014 18:35:04 GMT -5
As far as what I would do if they continued to spit on me after I slapped them in the face? I would call the police and have them removed from my home. You don't want to be respectful, you can get out. Teenager or not.
What's wrong with doing that instead of hitting them? I certainly don't recommend that as a "first response" but if you've literally tried everything else and now the kid is physically assaulting you, calling the police doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I favor "real life" consequences for kids as often as possible. As an adult, if you hit another person there's a chance you'll go to jail. (Yeah, you "could" also get hit in return but that's not a legal option available to the person you're assaulting - calling the cops certainly is.) Anyway, like I said, I can't see a teenager who "doesn't care about anything" suddenly coming to Jesus because of a face smack. That might hit the "reset" button with a toddler, but it seems unlikely to work with an iron-willed teenager, in which case you'd either have to kick it up a notch or move on to Plan B. I'd rather go straight to Plan B, personally. Why wouldn't I call the police and kick them out first, before slapping the kid? Because I would care about my kid and not want to see them with an arrest record for domestic abuse when they made 1 mistake at 13. Having someone arrested or the police come is pretty major in my book. It can mess up a lot of their future stuff. How is it going to look to employers and schools if you have a record for assaulting your mother? Look at the public opinion on domestic abusers. It's not good. But then to say you hurt your own mother (I understand all mothers aren't the same but for most people, mama is the person they love the most)? If my kid loses their cool and messes up once, and a slap to face brings them back to focus, there's no reason for them to get arrested IMHO. A pattern of this? yes, definitely. But I am would not want to jeopardize their future (what if they want to go into law enforcement or the military) because of a one-time occurrence that a slap took care of (yes, they are juveniles but the govt can/will find even juvenile records so it isn't as easy as thinking it will be sealed when they hit age 18). I also prefer handling things in the home, if possible. Why involve the police department (god know they have enough other stuff keeping them busy), when I can handle it at home? Why not try that first and if it doesn't work, then call in the big guns (cops, etc).
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 14, 2014 18:38:06 GMT -5
I think there is something very demeaning in slapping someone's face. But so is spitting in someone's face.
I don't know if I would slap my kid if he ever did that (I am not talking toddler years, although that has never happened), but I am pretty sure that my husband, who is VERY anti-spanking and anti-hitting, would beat the crap out of him. Bc as much as he is anti-hitting the kids, he is THAT much more pro respecting one's parents.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 14, 2014 18:52:51 GMT -5
As far as what I would do if they continued to spit on me after I slapped them in the face? I would call the police and have them removed from my home. You don't want to be respectful, you can get out. Teenager or not.
What's wrong with doing that instead of hitting them? I certainly don't recommend that as a "first response" but if you've literally tried everything else and now the kid is physically assaulting you, calling the police doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I favor "real life" consequences for kids as often as possible. As an adult, if you hit another person there's a chance you'll go to jail. (Yeah, you "could" also get hit in return but that's not a legal option available to the person you're assaulting - calling the cops certainly is.) Anyway, like I said, I can't see a teenager who "doesn't care about anything" suddenly coming to Jesus because of a face smack. That might hit the "reset" button with a toddler, but it seems unlikely to work with an iron-willed teenager, in which case you'd either have to kick it up a notch or move on to Plan B. I'd rather go straight to Plan B, personally. Why wouldn't I call the police and kick them out first, before slapping the kid? Because I would care about my kid and not want to see them with an arrest record for domestic abuse when they made 1 mistake at 13. Having someone arrested or the police come is pretty major in my book. It can mess up a lot of their future stuff. How is it going to look to employers and schools if you have a record for assaulting your mother? Look at the public opinion on domestic abusers. It's not good. But then to say you hurt your own mother (I understand all mothers aren't the same but for most people, mama is the person they love the most)? If my kid loses their cool and messes up once, and a slap to face brings them back to focus, there's no reason for them to get arrested IMHO. A pattern of this? yes, definitely. But I am would not want to jeopardize their future (what if they want to go into law enforcement or the military) because of a one-time occurrence that a slap took care of (yes, they are juveniles but the govt can/will find even juvenile records so it isn't as easy as thinking it will be sealed when they hit age 18). I also prefer handling things in the home, if possible. Why involve the police department (god know they have enough other stuff keeping them busy), when I can handle it at home? Why not try that first and if it doesn't work, then call in the big guns (cops, etc). I've said that I could see myself losing my cool and slapping my kids if they spit in my face. It would be out of shock and anger-- the things you're not supposed to hit your kids because you're feeling. If I can say that slapping them to realize how out of line they are, then I think they could say the same to me about why they spit on me. Another poster on the board said that she made her son sleep in the garage one night because of the way he was speaking to her. That I would do, or throw the tent outside and tell them they better get it set up before it was dark. I guess I just don't see how one slap is going to give a teenager who is so out of control that wake up call that others are thinking it would provide. I also haven't felt that spanking or swatting my toddlers is a reasonable response to get their attention because I would 100% not be okay with them using the same method to get my attention. I haven't needed to do either to keep them out of the street or stop them from touching the stove.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 14, 2014 18:54:11 GMT -5
My very conservative cousin and her husband subscribe to the To Train Up A Child (Michael Pearl) theory, which advocates beginning bare-butt spanking as early as 8 months. I read part of the book and it is creepy as fuck. DD is 8.5 months old and I cannot even imagine spanking her. So I guess I'll report back here in 20 years re: whose kids turned out better. That's ridiculous. What on earth would you spank an 8 month old for? I can't understand how people manage to get books like that published.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 18:59:33 GMT -5
My very conservative cousin and her husband subscribe to the To Train Up A Child (Michael Pearl) theory, which advocates beginning bare-butt spanking as early as 8 months. I read part of the book and it is creepy as fuck. DD is 8.5 months old and I cannot even imagine spanking her. So I guess I'll report back here in 20 years re: whose kids turned out better. What the hell can an 8month old do to get a spanking? Do they even really understand what you're saying to them? I understand spanking a child that's being willfully disobedient, but spanking an 8 month old baby is a bunch of bullshit.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 14, 2014 19:03:05 GMT -5
I threatened to call CPS once. My mom said I needed a reason to call. Then she beat the crap out of me and handed me the phone. True story.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 14, 2014 19:17:14 GMT -5
I disagree about never hitting. DD used to bite. We tried everything to get her to stop. It stopped when I bit her back and told her this is what it feels like to the people you bite. I smacked mine in the mouth when they bit. Not so much my little one, but my older one was a terrible biter when she was teething. I didn't hit her hard. But after a while she realized that when you bite people you get smacked. She didn't like that so she didn't do it anymore. Judge me all you want. I'd do it the same if I had it to do all over again.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 14, 2014 19:18:32 GMT -5
...:::"Once again, I find it interesting that noone here thinks this is abuse. If he'd done it to his wife, it would have been domestic violence and battery. EVEN IF she spit in his face. But because the kid was underage she has less protections than an adult. Shameful.":::...
I wanted to get more than a 1/2 page in, but had to comment here.
What I see is what happens when people are pushed too far. Sometimes a line is crossed, and you have to swiftly and clearly communicate that there are consequences, and that said line is NEVER to be crossed again. Sass, bratty behavior, disobedience... but a spit in the face! I'm so over the idea that the instigator gets off scot free while the reactor is supposed to get in trouble. Bravo to Dad for standing up for Mom and disciplining the daughter. At least Dad would hold back. Another kid on the playground might not.
And kids don't have rights! Not really!. I mean, you know what I mean here. The idea of being held hostage by my kid threatening to report me (and the fact that I might get in real trouble over a baseless accusation) is bonechilling. We need to get back to parents having the right to discipline.
I'd be very curious to see whether or not the kid changes her tack.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 14, 2014 19:23:44 GMT -5
Part of being a parent is to prepare your child to live successfully as an adult. If I were to spit in someone's face, I would fully expect to get punched. I'm not seeing a slap as an unreasonable consequence.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 14, 2014 19:30:22 GMT -5
swasat - did the girls behavior change after the incident? Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 14, 2014 19:30:42 GMT -5
I am ready to punch everyone in my house in the face.
My wife is puking, my 2 month old hasn't stopped screaming since I got home, my 2.5 year old peed all over the couch, my 5 year old is trying but making a mess everywhere she goes, the kitchen is a disaster from trying to make tacos, the couch is pulled apart there is shit everywhere... I need beer and I need it quick.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 14, 2014 19:40:26 GMT -5
I am ready to punch everyone in my house in the face. My wife is puking, my 2 month old hasn't stopped screaming since I got home, my 2.5 year old peed all over the couch, my 5 year old is trying but making a mess everywhere she goes, the kitchen is a disaster from trying to make tacos, the couch is pulled apart there is shit everywhere... I need beer and I need it quick. That sucks! I'm sorry! You do need a drink! I'd deliver for you if I could. Sorry
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 14, 2014 19:45:01 GMT -5
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 14, 2014 19:46:16 GMT -5
I was spanked as a young child. I'm theoretically not against spanking my own theoretical children using similar guidelines - young enough that groundings/taking things away don't work, not for every little thing, hand only over clothing, one or two smacks, etc. Kind of along the lines with maybe having to bite/scratch/whatever back if the kid isn't getting it. None of that to me is beating my child. I would not say I was beaten as a child. To me someone saying they would beat their child conjures up images of the child getting punched, repeatedly hit, marks being left, as a whole the child getting beat up and looking so. That's not punishment. I got those kind of spankings but the threat was getting "a knot snatched in your ass" doesn't quite sound so benign but it sure did scare a kid. I did also get to pick my own switch a time or two. (I hear, I don't remember that so it must not have been very traumatic huh?)
From your casual comment, it looks like being "switched" wasn't a big deal to you. It was pretty serious in our house, though. I remember several times when I'd have to miss a few days of school until the cuts would heal enough and the swelling from the welts would go down enough so that nobody would call CPS after my mom had "switched" me. I use the quotes because the term seems to do a huge disservice by using a cute phrase to minimize what is essentially whipping someone with a branch. She'd beat me with a branch, taking a strip of skin off with each hit and leaving small bits of branch and dirt under the skin, which would further irritate the cuts and slow healing. It wasn't quite as serious as being whipped with a belt (that hurt, too, but for some reason hitting with the belt was done in places that clothing would cover, unlike switching which was done to the backs of the legs leaving me with dozens of cuts from ankle to upper thigh - tender spots that are tough to cover fully in hot Florida weather), but the marks and damage was similar.
I can remember every time I was switched. I can't remember a single reason why, though. I wasn't a great kid - pretty rebellious and stubborn, but I can assure you that being switched, being beaten with a belt, being beaten with a hairbrush or whatever was closest at hand, being slapped and being kicked never seemed to improve my attitude for some reason. In fact, each time one of those things was done, it hardened my shell and made me less likely to ever be receptive to instructions, advice or any type of input.
I'm not sure the OP situation qualifies as abuse. And I'm not sure that there are no situations where some sort of physical discipline is helpful. I just know that if you do have a kid that is defiant, rebellious or stubborn, using physical force on them is much more likely to make that behavior worse, not better. It's also highly likely to further fracture the parent/child bond. IMHO, you can't make the situation better without some sort of bond or at least understanding. So regardless of your judgment on corporal punishment, it's just not effective in addressing these situations, so why use it?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 14, 2014 19:46:27 GMT -5
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 14, 2014 19:53:40 GMT -5
Milee- I'm so sorry you had to endure that. It hurts to read. Obviously what happened to you is in no way equivalent to a relatively light spanking with a hand over clothes, but I hope we can figure out enough alternative disciplines over time that we get to the point where it's never "necessary" to hit a child. There are idiots out there who abuse kids horribly in the name of discipline and it happens all the time.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 14, 2014 19:54:06 GMT -5
...:::"And I don't care if I sound like a judgmental bitch but no kid wakes up at 13 and spits in their parents' face. It happens gradually, over the years. And while I am sure there are children who have some kind of disorder, neurological or whatever, I think a lot of times parents didn't pay attention to certain signs long before such incidents occur.":::...
I think this hits the nail on the head (or the kid on the butt). It DIDN'T happen overnight. I bet those parents tried all sorts of "talks" and things like that. Kids aren't stupid, they know how to tell you what you want to hear. But a kid who thinks that he/she can spit in my face -- like SERIOUSLY decides that is a good idea... because they wouldn't have done it if they thought a severe enough consequence would result. Sometimes, you just gotta dispense a pimp hand.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 19:56:51 GMT -5
I had a tough teenager that didn't care about consequences because they were after the fact; after she'd already done what she wanted to do. She calmly told me that and her actions during that time were proving it was true. She wasn't cursing me or assaulting me, but she was the devil for a short period of time. After I'd tried all the normal suggestions and run out of ideas, I finally did something that gave her a sudden come to Jesus moment. It wasn't me hitting her, I made her run in place while I tried to calm down after her last incident. I was at my wit's end, upset and extremely frustrated. Her howling and crying and me yelling " I SAID RUN", would've made you think I was beating her if you'd heard it. I knew she was lazy, but I didn't expect all that commotion. After that day, she went back to acting like a normal teenager, whatever that is. She's never put it in those exact words, but to this day she'll say that making her run hit her "reset" button and she stopped acting so crazy because she hated that one thing just that much. Finding something that means something to a particular kid can be so hard. Maybe impossible in some cases. I got lucky with a random thought that was just meant to keep her busy and out of my way until I calmed down. Thank God, because I didn't even have a plan A anymore, let alone a plan B. Well, at least you admit there wasn't a plan b or c. Glad you found something that worked. I wonder what parents are supposed to do when you say run, and the kid looks at you and say f#ck you! I'll do as I damn well please. I don't know what a parent is suppose to do, but I know that would not end well in my house. Talking to me any kind of way is not an option. DD was just crying and howling that she didn't want to do it, couldn't do it and was going to die if she tried.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 14, 2014 19:58:55 GMT -5
I threatened to call CPS once. My mom said I needed a reason to call. Then she beat the crap out of me and handed me the phone. True story. Lol...sorry, that probably isn't supposed to be funny
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 14, 2014 20:02:53 GMT -5
Another poster on the board said that she made her son sleep in the garage one night because of the way he was speaking to her. That I would do, or throw the tent outside and tell them they better get it set up before it was dark. That was me. It seemed to really bring home (pun intended) the point for him that to live in my house, he needed to be respectful of me. He was very upset about it at the time but now he jokes about it, so I think he understands why we made that point. He's 14 now and a really good kid. But man was he tough as a little guy.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 14, 2014 20:07:12 GMT -5
...:::"I read a spanking debate once and a person on it said something to the effect of, "All you pro-spanking parents, let me ask you - what if spanking your kid flat out isn't working? What do you do then? What's the 'next level' of discipline in your mind? Whatever it is, why not do that instead?"":::...
Because some of us swore to obey the Power Rangers code, and never escalate a battle unless Rita Repulsa does so first. OK but in all seriousness, I think you know that the answer to your question is along similar lines. Almost every action has a next step. I'd much rather fix the problem with a spanking, and escalate only if necessary than just... say... snuff the kid in its sleep and hope the next one we make is better!
I'm pretty sure we would all be extinct and the earth would be in pieces if everyones policy was to start with the most extreme response!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 14, 2014 20:07:35 GMT -5
Milee, reading what your mom did to you has broken my heart and made me so angry. Where the hell were the other adults? I am not anti-spanking but that wasn't spanking, that was god awful abuse. No child should ever go through something like that
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 14, 2014 20:07:43 GMT -5
I threatened to call CPS once. My mom said I needed a reason to call. Then she beat the crap out of me and handed me the phone. True story. Lol...sorry, that probably isn't supposed to be funny It's ok. It is now. My mom is actually kind of proud at her clever self 20+ years later. At the time I think she was just frustrated to no end and had had enough of my smart mouth. I tried to make a comment once about me being a model child. My uncle (who is only a few years older than me) laughed and said "I used to feel sorry for you. You were always getting your ass kicked". So much for model child, huh?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 14, 2014 20:09:40 GMT -5
Lol...sorry, that probably isn't supposed to be funny It's ok. It is now. My mom is actually kind of proud at her clever self 20+ years later. At the time I think she was just frustrated to no end and had had enough of my smart mouth. I tried to make a comment once about me being a model child. My uncle (who is only a few years older than me) laughed and said "I used to feel sorry for you. You were always getting your ass kicked". So much for model child, huh? Lol.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 14, 2014 20:09:47 GMT -5
Milee, reading what your mom did to you has broken my heart and made me so angry. Where the hell were the other adults? I am not anti-spanking but that wasn't spanking, that was god awful abuse. No child should ever go through something like that Guess they believed like WWBG that sometimes you just gotta use the pimp hand.
Seriously, my mom was smart enough to understand what would happen if people knew so she'd keep us out of school sometimes. She also did a great job of convincing us that it was our fault. Just like WWBG says, we must have been so bad that we "forced" her to do that.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 14, 2014 20:12:16 GMT -5
Milee, reading what your mom did to you has broken my heart and made me so angry. Where the hell were the other adults? I am not anti-spanking but that wasn't spanking, that was god awful abuse. No child should ever go through something like that Agreed. I have spanked my kids before and don't regret it. But that is way different. I have never hit my child with anything other than an open hand on their butt. Never a closed fist or an object. I have been so angry to the point where I have had to walk away to avoid really hurting one of them. I am so sorry that happened to you.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 14, 2014 20:14:09 GMT -5
Milee, reading what your mom did to you has broken my heart and made me so angry. Where the hell were the other adults? I am not anti-spanking but that wasn't spanking, that was god awful abuse. No child should ever go through something like that Guess they believed like WWBG that sometimes you just gotta use the pimp hand.
Seriously, my mom was smart enough to understand what would happen if people knew so she'd keep us out of school sometimes. She also did a great job of convincing us that it was our fault. Just like WWBG says, we must have been so bad that we "forced" her to do that.
I am so sorry. No child should ever be told anything like that. They should also never be treated like that.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 14, 2014 20:14:10 GMT -5
Milee, reading what your mom did to you has broken my heart and made me so angry. Where the hell were the other adults? I am not anti-spanking but that wasn't spanking, that was god awful abuse. No child should ever go through something like that Guess they believed like WWBG that sometimes you just gotta use the pimp hand.
Seriously, my mom was smart enough to understand what would happen if people knew so she'd keep us out of school sometimes. She also did a great job of convincing us that it was our fault. Just like WWBG says, we must have been so bad that we "forced" her to do that.
And the manipulation is almost as bad as the abuse. I have spanked my kids when they were little (swats in the butt) and I don't ever regret them. I saved that for dangerous situations and only rarely. Having said that, I can't imagine truly hurting one of my children. It just sickens me and makes me sad to know that any child was truly abused. I was smacked a lot as a child ( by mom never my dad) but never anything like you went through.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 14, 2014 20:14:37 GMT -5
In a literal sense, I think a pimp hand is a perfectly reasonable response to being spat on. As has been said, otherwise you just teach people that they can spit on you.
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