Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 15, 2014 10:59:09 GMT -5
Count me into the camp that hopes we're all still here in ten years to discuss how our choices worked out. It's an interesting social experiment This will seem irrelevant but bear with me: I'm slooooooooooowly (very, very, very slowly) coming around to the idea that Babybird might be my only child. I'm not sure I'm equipped for more than one, and certain comments on these threads (no one in particular I'm thinking of) have made me more sure that I'm not. I figure I can look at it two ways - I can either spend my whole life feeling like there's this big loss in my life and our family for the second kid we never had, or I can enjoy what I have and be grateful I didn't know this about myself in advance - because if I had then it's very unlikely I would have had any kid at all and I'm really glad Babybird is here. I think and hope I'm a good parent (I know DH is) but I also believe that I "lucked out" with Babybird, at least so far. She's really a pretty good kid. Part of me (that gets bigger all the time) just doesn't want to screw with that and isn't sure I'd be a good parent to a not-so-good kid. I think MOST people can be good parents to "good" kids and it takes a special kind of person to be a good parent to a "bad" kid. I don't know if I'm explaining myself very well but what I am trying to say is that I respect the hell out of parents who have "bad" kids and are being good parents to them. I'm never going to be a fan of spanking but this thread has helped me to realize that a lot of parents who do things I don't agree with probably fall into that camp - they have kids who are very, very difficult and they're trying to figure out what works for that kid.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 15, 2014 11:01:01 GMT -5
Yes, I stand by those two statements. They were in response to a poster who said that "she is a great mom and that's why her kids are great". And you should. They are good statements. I am trying to give you a compliment & say I think you aren't smug & I agree with you, but I feel somehow I am not communicating that well. LOL, I am so used to being flamed that I guess I can't even recognize a compliment anymore. Thank you!!
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 15, 2014 11:03:29 GMT -5
I am curious, what do others consider spanking? To me that word means over the knee with several hard smacks to the butt. The word almost conjures more of an abusive image for me than a fair punishment. I honestly wouldn't call the 1 smack or the one time DD got 2 smacks on her butt as spanking, but I could see others might. This is obviously semantics, but there is definitely a scale of the extremeness of the punishments. I feel I am such on the low end of physical punishment that it doesn't fit the term, IMO. I just would like to clarify the meaning of the term for people to get a better idea of what people mean when they says they do or don't spank. I am completely incapable of spanking hard. It is 1, maybe 2 open-handed hit(s) on the rear and it isn't hard. But it is enough to get DS's attention. We have been moving away from spanking because other disciplines are becoming more effective, (and yes we tried them first and a year or 2 ago they weren't effective, but as DS has gotten older, what he values changed).
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 15, 2014 11:16:02 GMT -5
Just remember I find parenting 2 easier than parenting 1 ... at least right now. Even though DD is nothing like DS, she's still a good kid (DS is too). Mischievous as all get out, but still a good kid. Just beacause you have 2 doesn't mean you are going to get one devil child. (not that I know for sure at this point).
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 15, 2014 11:32:38 GMT -5
But the time you know you have a devil child, it's too late. I would have sworn DS would be a hassle and he wasnt because he was a tough baby. DD was angelic and look what I've wrought!
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 15, 2014 11:34:50 GMT -5
And that is why the claims that kids are awesome because of good parenting alone and not because of any luck is ridiculous. Sometimes, there is more than good parenting involved.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 11:35:50 GMT -5
I've heard it's common for boys to be tougher when they're little and easier as teens, and the opposite for girls. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but I was so glad I had boys. Teenage girls can be just nasty to their moms. I know I was.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Aug 15, 2014 11:38:59 GMT -5
And that is why the claims that kids are awesome because of good parenting alone and not because of any luck is ridiculous. Sometimes, there is more than good parenting involved. I got lucky and my son had to develope a wicked sense of humor living with me. That and the fact that he just shakes his head sometimes and considers the source
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 11:39:51 GMT -5
A question for those of you that have kids that are difficult, what was your frame of mind (in general) when you were pregnant with them? Sometimes I think the kid gets the temperament of the mother during pregnancy.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 15, 2014 11:40:32 GMT -5
Considering if my DD is wearing a dress, she'll flash other kids. She's attempted to steal shoes of people at the park. I think we will have our hands full when she gets older. But who knows, my sister's 14 year old girl is joy to be around. Granted, I don't have to be around her 24/7, but she is not your typical teenage girl. We have fun hanging out when we are visiting.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 15, 2014 11:51:55 GMT -5
A question for those of you that have kids that are difficult, what was your frame of mind (in general) when you were pregnant with them? Sometimes I think the kid gets the temperament of the mother during pregnancy. I had a rough & stressful time when I was pregnant with DD & didn't gain much weight. Although, I had a rough & stressful time with the other two as well & DS1 is an angel & DS2 is only 8 months, but so far is literally the happiest baby I have ever met.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 15, 2014 12:02:26 GMT -5
I was under a lot of stress while I was pregnant with DD - our dog died, DH had major surgery, my dad and grandfather were hospitalized, and I had to co-chair a huge trial. I subscribed to the stress = bad baby theory too, and was scared shitless - especially when I started to have complications with my pregnancy. DD was somewhat fussy for the first 3-4 months, but is now almost 9 months and a complete joy. She only cries when she is in pain or really, really tired. She is a great baby. This is also why I am straddling the fence re: a second kid. My brother was a great baby but as a preteen/teenager/twentysomething, will probably send my mom to an early grave. My sister was colicky and a very difficult child, but her teenage years were drama-free. I am the only kid out of the three of us who has been consistently wonderful
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 15, 2014 12:02:22 GMT -5
A question for those of you that have kids that are difficult, what was your frame of mind (in general) when you were pregnant with them? Sometimes I think the kid gets the temperament of the mother during pregnancy. That's an interesting question. My kids are so different and so easy and difficult in such different ways that I can't really "tie" it to anything. We went through A LOT of changes during the years I was pregnant.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 15, 2014 12:32:44 GMT -5
I don't know if my kids will be easy or challenging. I really like being pregnant, so even though I was nervous about stuff and overly tired with my 2nd, I was always pretty happy. Dd was a challenging baby compared to ds, but it really isn't a fair comparison. Ds has been more challenging after having dd, so it makes me wonder how much of that is him growing up, and how much is just him/us having to share resources. Maybe I'd still be talking about my perfect little angel who just goes with the flow if he was still an only.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2014 12:38:32 GMT -5
Is very true. My mo told me to stop at one because DS was perfect but oh, no, I HAD to have a girl. Well, I got my wish. Be careful what you wish for. It makes me so sad to see the way you talk about your daughter.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 15, 2014 12:39:06 GMT -5
A question for those of you that have kids that are difficult, what was your frame of mind (in general) when you were pregnant with them? Sometimes I think the kid gets the temperament of the mother during pregnancy. While I was preggers with DD I was managing a department of 13+ people, finishing my final two classes for my Master's in Taxation, and having morning sickness so bad my dr kept threatening to throw me in the hospital cause I actually lost weight at a few points. My mom was in very poor health and I got "the call" at least twice during that period, one time I couldn't go down to the hospital to see her "for the last time" (400+ miles away) because I/my pregnancy was high risk and I was too close to the due date. DD was a dream baby, toddler, child, and (for the most part) tween. Like I said earlier, I hope and pray that she remains rational and happy. My mom always said my sister and I were very easy to raise, even when we were adults. I always figured after all the shit my older brother pulled, neither one of dared to put our folks through anything else.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 15, 2014 12:43:26 GMT -5
Is very true. My mo told me to stop at one because DS was perfect but oh, no, I HAD to have a girl. Well, I got my wish. Be careful what you wish for. It makes me so sad to see the way you talk about your daughter. Not me. Zib is brutally honest and I find that refreshing sometimes. I have no doubt that she loves her DD, but not every relationship is what we would want it to be. I have a relative who feels the same way about one of their kids whom I referred to this board so they can see that there are others who have the same feeling. There is nothing wrong with admitting that your relationship with anyone is not what you wished for.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 15, 2014 12:46:53 GMT -5
I love my DD but she's a very challenging person to be around. It's always everyone else fault and the world owes her. Way too much like her father and he is a very troubled man who turned to alcohol and drugs to try to cope. No way do I want to see her go down this path. They are both charming but can turn on you in a dime and be so hateful it's unbelievable what comes out their mouths. I hope with time and maturity, she can make a good life for herself. If not, well, I tried.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Aug 15, 2014 13:31:01 GMT -5
My older son is now 6'7" and wears size 16 shoes. He has been taller than me since he was 8. Soon after he became taller, he said, " mom, you can't make me do anything because I'm bigger than you"
i looked at at him and said, "yeah, but I'm meaner". Fortunately, he rarely tested that.
He usually called me the Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Mother.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 15, 2014 13:37:51 GMT -5
I got those kind of spankings but the threat was getting "a knot snatched in your ass" doesn't quite sound so benign but it sure did scare a kid. I did also get to pick my own switch a time or two. (I hear, I don't remember that so it must not have been very traumatic huh?)
From your casual comment, it looks like being "switched" wasn't a big deal to you. It was pretty serious in our house, though. I remember several times when I'd have to miss a few days of school until the cuts would heal enough and the swelling from the welts would go down enough so that nobody would call CPS after my mom had "switched" me. I use the quotes because the term seems to do a huge disservice by using a cute phrase to minimize what is essentially whipping someone with a branch. She'd beat me with a branch, taking a strip of skin off with each hit and leaving small bits of branch and dirt under the skin, which would further irritate the cuts and slow healing. It wasn't quite as serious as being whipped with a belt (that hurt, too, but for some reason hitting with the belt was done in places that clothing would cover, unlike switching which was done to the backs of the legs leaving me with dozens of cuts from ankle to upper thigh - tender spots that are tough to cover fully in hot Florida weather), but the marks and damage was similar.
I can remember every time I was switched. I can't remember a single reason why, though. I wasn't a great kid - pretty rebellious and stubborn, but I can assure you that being switched, being beaten with a belt, being beaten with a hairbrush or whatever was closest at hand, being slapped and being kicked never seemed to improve my attitude for some reason. In fact, each time one of those things was done, it hardened my shell and made me less likely to ever be receptive to instructions, advice or any type of input.
I'm not sure the OP situation qualifies as abuse. And I'm not sure that there are no situations where some sort of physical discipline is helpful. I just know that if you do have a kid that is defiant, rebellious or stubborn, using physical force on them is much more likely to make that behavior worse, not better. It's also highly likely to further fracture the parent/child bond. IMHO, you can't make the situation better without some sort of bond or at least understanding. So regardless of your judgment on corporal punishment, it's just not effective in addressing these situations, so why use it?
Catching up and had to comment since you directly addressed me. What you experienced and what I did are worlds apart. I'd call what happened to you abuse and what happened to me spanking. No skin was every broken or welts left by anyone who disciplined myself or my sisters. (Parents, aunts, grandmothers...) I only actually recall one spanking and don't think I ever pushed Dad's buttons that much again. Again, no marks and I was probably around 6-8. I don't think a parent should never spank, sometimes it works. Possibly in very limited situations and age ranges, but it can still be effective. That said, spanking didn't work on either of my boys for various reasons. DD you could raise your voice at and make her cry. The boys I had to get creative with. Time outs had success on the older one when he was small and now? Well, it's probably a good thing he's a good kid to start with. My younger one is one you have to keep switching tactics on since he doesn't care all that much whatever you do. Currently losing usage of the computer (which covers ALL electronics that will connect to the internet, Mom's not dumb) is working.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 15, 2014 16:19:53 GMT -5
It makes me so sad to see the way you talk about your daughter. Not me. Zib is brutally honest and I find that refreshing sometimes. I have no doubt that she loves her DD, but not every relationship is what we would want it to be. I have a relative who feels the same way about one of their kids whom I referred to this board so they can see that there are others who have the same feeling. There is nothing wrong with admitting that your relationship with anyone is not what you wished for. I think the difference is that this is her child. A child who as I recall is working and going to school. Not living off zib or the government. Their attitudes don't mesh, which can be hard and disappointing in a mother/child relationship but not the end of the world. Her dd reminds her a lot of the ex who she really dislikes and I'm sure that makes it even harder but zib chose to have a 2nd child with the ex, surely there are some redeeming qualities dd inherited and can be focused on. I said earlier on my fear was only of disappointing my parents, and I feel like zibs dd must know how her mom doesn't think very highly of her. That would break my heart. I know my parents haven't always been on board with my choices, but I've never wondered if they accepted me as I was and respected me. Poor choices, and flakey personality included. Thats me being brutally honest, and not intending to be mean, but I will take it down if it doesn't cone across the right way. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2014 16:32:17 GMT -5
Not me. Zib is brutally honest and I find that refreshing sometimes. I have no doubt that she loves her DD, but not every relationship is what we would want it to be. I have a relative who feels the same way about one of their kids whom I referred to this board so they can see that there are others who have the same feeling. There is nothing wrong with admitting that your relationship with anyone is not what you wished for. I think the difference is that this is her child. A child who as I recall is working and going to school. Not living off zib or the government. Their attitudes don't mesh, which can be hard and disappointing in a mother/child relationship but not the end of the world. Her dd reminds her a lot of the ex who she really dislikes and I'm sure that makes it even harder but zib chose to have a 2nd child with the ex, surely there are some redeeming qualities dd inherited and can be focused on. I said earlier on my fear was only of disappointing my parents, and I feel like zibs dd must know how her mom doesn't think very highly of her. That would break my heart. I know my parents haven't always been on board with my choices, but I've never wondered if they accepted me as I was and respected me. Poor choices, and flakey personality included. Thats me being brutally honest, and not intending to be mean, but I will take it down if it doesn't cone across the right way. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards That's exactly what I was thinking. My oldest is a handful. She is a mini me so we butt heads ALL.THE.TIME. But at the end of the day I can't imagine not having her in my life. She has some traits of my husband that I don't like but overall she is a really funny, strong young woman that I love with all my heart. I can't imagine ever regretting having my daughter. As a daughter, I can't imagine knowing my mother felt about me like zib feels about her dd. It just makes me sad
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 15, 2014 16:39:39 GMT -5
Actually, she is living off me. But she does finally have a job now. Paying $10 an hour. But she needs the hours so I am supportive of this. If she doesn't get into PA school this round, and its highly doubtful, she is going the nurse to PA program which means ill be paying for another two years. But she will work, such as it is, until the fall of next year when she will start one school or the other. like her father, she has zero clue what people actually think about her. My mom was the same way. My old counselor had a field day with that one as you can imagine. My ex was able to hide his true colors for many years. DD was 4 when it started happening.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 15, 2014 17:19:54 GMT -5
Not me. Zib is brutally honest and I find that refreshing sometimes. I have no doubt that she loves her DD, but not every relationship is what we would want it to be. I have a relative who feels the same way about one of their kids whom I referred to this board so they can see that there are others who have the same feeling. There is nothing wrong with admitting that your relationship with anyone is not what you wished for. I think the difference is that this is her child. A child who as I recall is working and going to school. Not living off zib or the government. Their attitudes don't mesh, which can be hard and disappointing in a mother/child relationship but not the end of the world. Her dd reminds her a lot of the ex who she really dislikes and I'm sure that makes it even harder but zib chose to have a 2nd child with the ex, surely there are some redeeming qualities dd inherited and can be focused on. I said earlier on my fear was only of disappointing my parents, and I feel like zibs dd must know how her mom doesn't think very highly of her. That would break my heart. I know my parents haven't always been on board with my choices, but I've never wondered if they accepted me as I was and respected me. Poor choices, and flakey personality included. Thats me being brutally honest, and not intending to be mean, but I will take it down if it doesn't cone across the right way. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards I think this is much rarer then you may realize. My own mother never understood me and didn't really accept me for who I am, as I was not the type of daughter she wanted. However I have no doubt that she loved me. My own mom was also pretty honest - I was supposed to be a girly girl and become a Lawyer, CPA, or Physicans' assistant and it was a crushing disappointment to her that I never passed the CPA exam and preferred pants to skirts. However, I never had any doubt that she loved me.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 15, 2014 22:21:10 GMT -5
Long before I became a mom, my philosophy toward my children was "I don't tell you who you are. You tell ME who you are." I'll let you know how that works out in ten years or so
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 15, 2014 23:20:48 GMT -5
Long before I became a mom, my philosophy toward my children was "I don't tell you who you are. You tell ME who you are." I'll let you know how that works out in ten years or so I would love to hear about it in 10 yrs bc I have never understood that philosophy.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 15, 2014 23:30:07 GMT -5
The way I see it, Lena, she is who she is. I just brought her into the world, I didn't decide what religion/sexuality/gender/profession/personality/etc. she would be.
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Aug 16, 2014 4:49:44 GMT -5
My older son is now 6'7" and wears size 16 shoes. He has been taller than me since he was 8. Soon after he became taller, he said, " mom, you can't make me do anything because I'm bigger than you" i looked at at him and said, "yeah, but I'm meaner". Fortunately, he rarely tested that. He usually called me the Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Mother. I saw a similar situation. Punk was bigger than his dad and tried to push him around. Dad was a former Navy Seal. One beat down later and he fell in line lol.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 16, 2014 6:36:53 GMT -5
...:::"I'd rather go straight to Plan B, personally.":::... Firebird I thought we'd gotten to a good place where we could agree that degrees matter. I'm not saying that plan A has to be physical (since that also seems to be a hangup in this discussion), but we've crossed swords many times in debates about "level 1" getting the same ire as "level 5" when there are 4 levels separating the two. Nobody is forcing you to hit your kid if you don't want to, or don't think it will work. I like real world consequences too -- pulling a misbehaving kid away from a fun activity is a great reaction. But you know... doesn't it sound extreme to say "why risk that taking her away from the activity won't work -- why not just go to Plan B and ban her from the activity for life?". And if you DID try plan A, and if it did work, then doesn't that prove that there is merit to only escalating as necessary? Again, power rangers code.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Aug 16, 2014 8:21:30 GMT -5
My older son is now 6'7" and wears size 16 shoes. He has been taller than me since he was 8. Soon after he became taller, he said, " mom, you can't make me do anything because I'm bigger than you" i looked at at him and said, "yeah, but I'm meaner". Fortunately, he rarely tested that. He usually called me the Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Mother. I saw a similar situation. Punk was bigger than his dad and tried to push him around. Dad was a former Navy Seal. One beat down later and he fell in line lol. Happily, my son and I didn't have to go to a beat down about it. I think I must just look scary Also, if I grounded him or took away a privilege, he could count on having to serve the full sentence. With his dad, he could wiggle out early--time off for good behavior. He tried that line on me and I just told him good behavior was expected and that if he could do it when punished, he ought to be able to do it before he was punished and not get punished in the first place. Saves time and trouble for everyone that way.
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