whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 15, 2014 7:18:54 GMT -5
Oh, abso-freaking-lutely. But I get very skeptical when people say that their kids are great bc of their parenting ways. Thank God...so the fact that my kid is one step away from juvie is totally not my fault...right?? right?? Of course not!!!! Now, quickly, get a drink and relax, you deserve it!! Seriously, though, I do think that nature plays a huge part in all of this. And while I do think that our efforts make some difference in who our children are, I don't think it's our parenting that is 100% responsible for it.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Aug 15, 2014 7:31:40 GMT -5
Didn't we have a thread earlier on nature vs. nurture? I think for the way kids turn out is a combination of the way they're "wired", AND the way their parents treat them.
DH's family is a case in point. DH was always told he had to "set an example", "be a man", babysit his younger siblings, etc., while a younger brother basically got away with all sorts of bad behavior that NEVER would have been tolerated of DH. And, if younger brother came home drunk in high school, or whatever, he was just laughed at. (DH would've gotten whipped for that.) So yes, parenting, or lack of it, does play a role. Younger brother never got his act together until around age 30.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 15, 2014 7:37:43 GMT -5
I agree that nature plays a huge part in these things. Sometimes you get mellow, compliant children who want to please their parents. Sometimes you don't. This is basically a rerun of the "how responsible are you for how your kids turn out" discussion. Scottish Lassie, I took your post to mean that kids used to behave because they were spanked for stepping out of line (and today kids are running wild because they don't get spanked). That's how I took consequences/punishment in the context of your post, because plenty of kids today do still get consequences and punishments. Just because spanking/hitting is no longer in vogue doesn't mean kids are running wild. I apologize if I misinterpreted your post. It's 5:30 in the morning, don't you people ever sleep?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 8:14:17 GMT -5
I hope you all will forgive the comparison, but a couple weeks ago I had a kind of heated conversation with DD over a potty training issue. I asked her if she remembered when we got our bullmastiff puppy and had to train her. Did she remember me taking the puppy outside a million times a day, regardless of the weather, until she understood that's where she was suppose to pee and poop. She didn't just wake up one day and magically know "hey, it feels like I have to pee. I should go beat on the back door so my humans will know I need to go outside". She also had to learn to obey commands. I would come home from work at 11pm, tired as hell and still take the puppy outside to work with her again. If I wouldn't have put in all that work when she was a puppy, I would've ended up with an unruly dog that I outweighed by only 10lbs, and she would've been leaving rivers of pee and mountains of poop all over my house.
But because I was consistent and diligent and actually taught her how I wanted her to behave while she was a puppy, I ended up with a big well-behaved dog that didn't have accidents in my house and I didn't need to try to use physical force to make her do what I wanted. Because I started training her early, she never had a chance to figure out that she was stronger than me once she reached maturity.
Children aren't as simple as dogs, but there are some similarities between the basics of training a puppy and teaching a child. It's WORK, you have to establish that you're the leader, be consistent, diligent, and reward good behavior, and you have to have some structure so they know what to expect. You're constantly teaching them something by your actions, inactions and reactions, your tone of voice and your body language, whether you realize it or not. And it's easier to teach them how to behave from the beginning than to try to correct bad behavior when they're older.
I didn't say all that to DD, but I mentioned house training the puppy because she watched and participated in the training, she's never been around a child that was being potty trained. She had it in her head that just because my grandson can talk, he ought to be able to tell her when he needs to use the pot. No ma'am. You have to work with him until he understands what you want from him and he has to learn what the urge to go feels like before he can tell you he needs to use the pot. Being able to talk doesn't really have much to do with it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 15, 2014 8:21:49 GMT -5
I know I became a LOT stricter when I became single mom. Both my kids have said so and they are right. I had so much pressure to be everything and no one to help me and I felt TOTALLY responsible for how they turned out. I still feel that way. I wonder if I let DS slide because he was easy going, smart, and didnt cause trouble, and that's why he seems to just coast along. Or if coasting along is just DS? That if I had pushed him, maybe he would have pushed himself more to be all that he could be? I will never know. Nevertheless, he's a good person. DD I pushed and she pushes herself. She isn't easy, way too much of her dad in her and that's hard for anyone,especially me, to handle. DS doesn't like her much either, most of the time. But I still think she will turn out well. She's a work in progress.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Aug 15, 2014 8:25:08 GMT -5
But can't the same be said of the anti-spankers on here? The fact that their techniques work on THEIR children could either be due to their parenting or it might just be because of the way their children are...
Oh, abso-freaking-lutely. But I get very skeptical when people say that their kids are great bc of their parenting ways. I readily admit that my son turned out just fine in spite of the fact that he had me for a mother
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imanangel
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Post by imanangel on Aug 15, 2014 8:53:32 GMT -5
My oldest son got in my face once when he was younger. He was bigger than me and thought his size would intimidate me. I think he was around 13? Anyway, my husband heard the fight and when he saw that my son was up in my face, oh holy hell broke loose. He grabbed BW and put him up against the wall. He told him that if he thought he was man enough to get in my face and disrespect me, then he better be man enough to deal with him. My son has never got in my face like that again. He KNOWS my husband (his dad) would whoop his ass.This actually bothers me...so he doesn't get in your face, but it has nothing to do with respecting YOU. It is only because he knows his father would rip him apart? I have never been a proponent of pushing my parenting off on my husband. My kid would know not to get into my face because I would whoop her ass.... I did not push the parenting off on my husband. He stepped in when he saw our son disrespecting me. You can read that however you like. My son does respect me. At the time he was a 13 year old kid testing his boundaries. He is now an 18 year old that has a lot of respect for me and his father.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 15, 2014 9:10:04 GMT -5
People told me on the nature/nurture thread that basically I just got lucky with my son. My son has never been hit and does not live in fear of me. He does however respect me and his father and we treat him with the same level of respect.
He is aware that there are consequences to his actions but they have very rarely even had to be enforced but they have been enforced just enough that he knows the consequences are real.
Slam the door? (which he hasn't done since he was 10) door gets taken off the hinges until the attitude improves. Wake up crabby? Immediate 8:30 pm bedtime until he can wake up without being crabby or acting like a brat. Rudeness in public? not allowed to join us on future outings to the store, groceries, etc.
We tell him all the time that he currently has exactly as many rules as he currently needs. Should the situation change and he need more rules then more rules will be created. We talk to our son on a daily basis about life, responsibilities, respect, current events, history, etc.
So in the interest of having a comparison to another posters question to her daughter: She said (paraphrasing) "hypothetically- what would happen if you spit on me?" her daughter said "I would die".
So I texted my son and asking the same thing "hypothetically- what would happen if you spit on me?" he texted back to say "why in the world would I ever spit on you?"
My son wants to go to college in Canada and we drove up there this week to tour a couple of schools. DH told DS that he Canada was pretty strict with who they'd let in and that he had a co-worker with a minor criminal record that went on a work sponsored fishing trip and when the bus got to the border they wouldn't let DH's co-worker in so everyone had to decide to cancel the trip or leave him at the border. They opted to leave him at the border. He told Stephen "if you are serious about coming up here to school you have to keep your record clean". As a result DS refused to let us buy any kindereggs to smuggle across the border and made DH tell the border guard that we had "100 grams of lunch meat" because the sign said you couldn't bring meat across the border. Pretty sure that was the first time that anyone had ever admitted that to the border guard. He just shrugged his shoulders and said "um ok, that's fine".
Some kids can behave like reasonable and responsible people without the fear of a beating looming over their head.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 15, 2014 9:20:32 GMT -5
My, my.....Some of you on here are AWFULLY SMUG about your parenting skills. Both in the spanking and non-spanking camps.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 9:22:58 GMT -5
I'm from a large family. Not my immediate family, but I have over 60 first cousins. Some of my aunts/uncles had large families (5-8 kids) and the differences in those kids from the same families is just crazy. My one aunt has 8 kids and they range from drug using loser that won't work to high ranked military officer and all kinds in between. I grew up with these kids and a couple hated how they were raised and some think Mom and Dad did a great job.
I think part of the "luck" in parenting is being blessed with a child that has a personality that your parenting style works well with.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 15, 2014 9:37:03 GMT -5
The only fear I had of my parents was of disappointing them which I think made me strive to be better, not avoid getting in trouble. But a lot of that is how I'm wired. My sister is completey different.
The danger in.crediting yourself with how great your kids turn out is that if they mess up, you end up mourning for yourself instead of focusing on helping your kid. I watched my mom struggle with that when sis tried to commit suicide. (And my mom is the best mom.ever, in no way responsible for my sisters issue).
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 15, 2014 9:42:33 GMT -5
My, my.....Some of you on here are AWFULLY SMUG about your parenting skills. Both in the spanking and non-spanking camps. Some of us really like our kids and enjoy being their parents. My son is my favorite person in the entire world and I love hanging out with him and talking to him. He is absolutely fascinating. If liking my kid makes me smug then that's a title I will wear with pride.
I fully admitted on the nature/nurture thread that I only know how to parent MY kid and that with any other kid I would likely be in over my head.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2014 9:45:15 GMT -5
This actually bothers me...so he doesn't get in your face, but it has nothing to do with respecting YOU. It is only because he knows his father would rip him apart? I have never been a proponent of pushing my parenting off on my husband. My kid would know not to get into my face because I would whoop her ass.... I did not push the parenting off on my husband. He stepped in when he saw our son disrespecting me. You can read that however you like. My son does respect me. At the time he was a 13 year old kid testing his boundaries. He is now an 18 year old that has a lot of respect for me and his father. Not sure exactly how I read into anything...I was only quoting what you posted. You have since clarified
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 15, 2014 9:52:02 GMT -5
I think nature can have a very strong pull on a person.
I also think that it can be broken.
I try to be very connected to my kids in a sense that I watch very closely for their nature and if I see things that I think could be a problem - I try to "fix it".
My husband thinks I am "too strict" and they are "too young". I think it's much easier to break your habits and natural inclinations when you are 4 than when you are 40.
I don't subscribe to any particular parenting methodology. I've never read a parenting book from start to finish. I do listen to people when they talk about parenting and I do read some things here and there. But most of all, I try to stay in-tune with my kids as much as i can and listen as much as I can.
If that makes me seem smug, so be it.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Aug 15, 2014 9:54:52 GMT -5
My, my.....Some of you on here are AWFULLY SMUG about your parenting skills. Both in the spanking and non-spanking camps. Some of us really like our kids and enjoy being their parents. My son is my favorite person in the entire world and I love hanging out with him and talking to him. He is absolutely fascinating. If liking my kid makes me smug then that's a title I will wear with pride.
I fully admitted on the nature/nurture thread that I only know how to parent MY kid and that with any other kid I would likely be in over my head.
My son is grown and I have this kind of relationship with him. My wish for everyone here is that they have a great relationship with their children. Don't worry what someone else thinks about how you raise your child. That will drive you friggin' crazy. Most grow up to be responsible productive adults in spite of us. And some are going to be POS regardless of how they are raised.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 15, 2014 10:05:55 GMT -5
I have one kid like Sheila's and one that will spit on me.
It makes for interesting parenting.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 15, 2014 10:07:18 GMT -5
@pinkcshmere - you sound like an awesome mom who really worked hard for her kids! whoisjohngalt - pretty sure no one is accusing you of being smug. There is a big difference between saying "my parenting style worked well for my kids" and saying "my kids turned out well because my parenting style works" - which imples it would work for all kids & you are just that good of a parent and parents with bad kids are using the wrong style.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 15, 2014 10:12:09 GMT -5
@pinkcshmere - you sound like an awesome mom who really worked hard for her kids! whoisjohngalt - pretty sure no one is accusing you of being smug. There is a big difference between saying "my parenting style worked well for my kids" and saying "my kids turned out well because my parenting style works" - which imples it would work for all kids & you are just that good of a parent and parents with bad kids are using the wrong style. I actually didn't say either of those two things.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 15, 2014 10:15:42 GMT -5
@pinkcshmere - you sound like an awesome mom who really worked hard for her kids! whoisjohngalt - pretty sure no one is accusing you of being smug. There is a big difference between saying "my parenting style worked well for my kids" and saying "my kids turned out well because my parenting style works" - which imples it would work for all kids & you are just that good of a parent and parents with bad kids are using the wrong style. I actually didn't say either of those two things. I am totally paraphrasing. You said a couple of things that meant different styles work for different kids & you recognize there is no such thing as a best parenting style. "But I get very skeptical when people say that their kids are great bc of their parenting ways. " "It might you your way of parenting or it might be just bc of the way your children are"
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 15, 2014 10:16:26 GMT -5
I have one kid like Sheila's and one that will spit on me.
It makes for interesting parenting. I hope we are all still here 10 yrs from now and you can keep us updated, bc I would bet you that she is not going to spit on you. I am comfortable making that bet bc I think the fact that you are addressing the issue now, when she is still young will make a huge difference.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 15, 2014 10:18:03 GMT -5
I actually didn't say either of those two things. I am totally paraphrasing. You said a couple of things that meant different styles work for different kids & you recognize there is no such thing as a best parenting style. "But I get very skeptical when people say that their kids are great bc of their parenting ways. " "It might you your way of parenting or it might be just bc of the way your children are" Yes, I stand by those two statements. They were in response to a poster who said that "she is a great mom and that's why her kids are great".
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 15, 2014 10:18:43 GMT -5
That makes a lot of sense. DS is a lot like me and I find his company enjoyable. He's a lot more introverted but still, no drama crap. DD is very much like her dad and that is not enjoyable. I get why she has boyfriends. I just don't know how she keeps them. Her dad now has the same problem. He can get bimbos but he can't keep them once they realize they can't get him to marry him and they can't get pregnant to get money out of him. The nice girls move on as soon as they figured out he isn't.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 15, 2014 10:20:23 GMT -5
Haven't caught up so the conversation may be way past this, but I wanted to say something with regards to respect vs fear.
There mostly will come a time where kids won't do what you want to do because they don't respect you, or at least your stance on a particular thing as a whole. There is one singular thing that caused most of fights with my parents. I love and respect them, but on this one thing I did not have respect for their stance. I see and saw it as completely arbitrary, they refused to compromise, etc. The only thing that kept me doing it even a little was fear of what would happen to me if I didn't (and I don't mean hitting, but groundings and loss of privileges).
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 15, 2014 10:22:15 GMT -5
I never had fear of my parents.
I had a fear of loosing their respect. I knew and still know that they will always love me. But I also wanted them to respect me.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 15, 2014 10:23:40 GMT -5
Swamp- that's part of the reason I only had one kid. Two of my uncles told me "if the first one is well behaved than stop at one because the 2nd one is always a hellion". I'm really hoping your daughter calms (? not sure if that's the right word) down before her teen years.
(I'm partially kidding since there are several reasons he is an only child but my uncles warnings were a small factor of that decision)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 10:25:58 GMT -5
@pinkcshmere - you sound like an awesome mom who really worked hard for her kids! whoisjohngalt - pretty sure no one is accusing you of being smug. There is a big difference between saying "my parenting style worked well for my kids" and saying "my kids turned out well because my parenting style works" - which imples it would work for all kids & you are just that good of a parent and parents with bad kids are using the wrong style. I assume you're referring to the post I deleted. Oops! But thanks.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 15, 2014 10:31:27 GMT -5
You can try your hardest, but you can't raise your kids in a vacuum. Eventually, the outside world will have its influence on your children, and as they grow and mature, they steer themselves as well. All we can do is try to give them the tools to navigate their lives.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 15, 2014 10:32:58 GMT -5
Is very true. My mo told me to stop at one because DS was perfect but oh, no, I HAD to have a girl. Well, I got my wish. Be careful what you wish for.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 15, 2014 10:45:35 GMT -5
I am totally paraphrasing. You said a couple of things that meant different styles work for different kids & you recognize there is no such thing as a best parenting style. "But I get very skeptical when people say that their kids are great bc of their parenting ways. " "It might you your way of parenting or it might be just bc of the way your children are" Yes, I stand by those two statements. They were in response to a poster who said that "she is a great mom and that's why her kids are great". And you should. They are good statements. I am trying to give you a compliment & say I think you aren't smug & I agree with you, but I feel somehow I am not communicating that well.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 15, 2014 10:58:48 GMT -5
I hardly think it's because I got "lucky". I think it's because I am a good mom. You can disagree with me all you want. But I think it's because my way of parenting works. OMG it is the continuation of the parents whose babies sleep through the night at 6 weeks and think it is all them. No honey, you got lucky. BTW - that doesn't mean you aren't fantastic mom. It just means there is some luck involved too.
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