I need to vent about my ex - long

[zibazinski]

True. It's very hard not to let an ex get to us. Mine still uses the kids on occasion to try to play me. When I got engaged he ramped it up big time. Now the kids laugh at him when he starts and if they pass on his latest whatever, I laugh as well. 15 years later but still.....

[MJ2.0]

Aug 11, 2014 13:56:58 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Aug 11, 2014 13:38:53 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Buzz Killington, ladies and gentlemen!

I know, having boundaries and normal/healthy family relationships is actually pretty boring.  I'm ok with that when i see all the fucked up relationships people post about here.  I'm making an assumption that Angel would prefer to stop the unhealthy relationship as opposed to giving him a 5 second soundbite acting sassy.

I didn't take Carl's comment literally. I took it to mean that she'd let him know that she wants nothing more to do with him on a personal level and then act accordingly. And I am 100% on board with that.

[haapai]

Aug 11, 2014 11:10:57 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I am just so sick of being manipulated.  It just feels like he just keeps trying to poke me from different angles to get me to bite. 

Yup, he is trying to push your buttons and it's no mystery to either one of us why he doesn't remember which ones work.  

He reminds me a bit of someone that I broke up with 20 years ago.  You're not being a bitch. 

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2014 13:53:45 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

You can and will repeat patterns over and over until you break yourself of whatever causes you to seek things like this out. I know why I picked bad men and so I stopped but it took a very very long time. Not just a year or two. Fix yourself and good will follow you. Every time I see DFs former stepdaughter, it breaks my heart because she is with an abuser. Even if she were to ever get rid of him, doubtful, she will just find another one. The problem is her. 

But even if you fix yourself you can't fix the abusive, manipulative Ex. I had the sense to divorce mine and find a good man. My Ex, however, was still DS's father and thus I couldn't get him out of my life completely.  Angel is in the same situation (still needs to be in contact with the Ex because of minor children).  I agree, though, that she needs to let him know his manipulations won't work. 

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 11:16:59 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Ugh Angel.. that sounds like a nightmare.  I'm not very familiar with the background with your ex, but just based on yuor post he is at a minimum trying to be manipulative but he almost sounds either mentally ill or abusing drugs/alcohol.  His behavior seems irrational and erratic.  I would box up all of his tools and tell him he can pick them up on X day at X time and you will leave them outside for him.  I would not engage face to face with him over these issues.  How involved is he with the kids? Does he have visitation or does he just randomly pop up from time to time? 

Yes, yes, and yes on the mentally ill, drugs, and alcohol.  I am fairly certain he is bi-polar and just based on his emails he is having a breakdown right now. 

He basically isn't involved with the kids.  I have let him see them when he asks.  So far they happens about once a month.  They come up more frequently as manipulation tools than anything else - like telling me I am selfish for divorcing him because now my kids will suffer

He has no custody or visitation of the older two.  He thinks it is the same for the youngest and I am not going to tell him otherwise & he will never bother to figure it out.  So I think I could probably just literally cut off contact.  I feel bad because it is ending his opportunity to act like a father, but it isn't like he is acting like one anyone.  My only problem with that is I do have a level of concern that he will show up at their school or at my house one night drunk, high or in god knows what state if I just cut off contact.  And I can't get a restraining order.  I have tried twice in the past when he was in much worse condition & was declined.  He would have to do something pretty bad/threatening to get one at this point & I'd rather not have to go through something like that. 

[whoami]

Aug 11, 2014 13:31:00 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I've been harassed a bunch about tools lately too.  I kept telling him I don't have them (which I don't), but he insists.  He either left them with his old employer when he got fired or they're still in the trunk of the car he totaled or he just traded them for drugs.  WTH knows, but I know they are not in my garage anymore. 

Mine wanted his wedding ring back 7+ years after our divorce was final. My lawyer just laughed. He said he was 7 years too late on that.

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 13:40:26 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

If I remember right, that $100 offer wasn't the only time you arranged for him to get his stuff or left it in the unlocked garage or whatever.  I think it's been a long time you've been asking him to take things.   I would say it's yours now.  If you really don't want it, tell him you're leaving it on the curb, but if it's useful stuff, I'd just keep it. 

Yeah, I gave him so many opportunities to get his stuff.  For a while I was boxing stuff up from the basement and bringing it over.  He got mad about that, but then wouldn't come get it himself.  He has bugged me since about the stuff, saying that it wasn't his & I needed to give it back to his friend because it wasn't right I keep it.  I just told him give me back my $100, otherwise you sold it all to me.

And don't think that I somehow kept a bunch of valuable stuff.  The day he kept harassing me he wanted the 2 lawn mowers & a bunch of broken bike parts from the backyard.  He could have come and got them, but I think he really just wanted money & was going to sellit all for scrap.  When I offered the $100, then he suddenly didn't need to sell it for scrap & just took the cash.  Now he just wants the broken lawnmower & some tools.  I don't know if he knows i got rid of the bike parts.  I don't know what tools he even wants, he kept everything a huge freaking mess so I probably couldn't find specifically what he wanted.  And all the big tools I consider mine at this point & am not giving him.  So maybe some screwdrivers & wrenches?

And for the person who said get divorced - it was finalized almost 4 months ago.  He completely goes through cycles & wasn't acting like this back then.  Now I can tell he is losing it & it worries me.

And for anyone worried this will someone get us back together...not going to happen.  I just want him out of my life at this point.  I feel sorry for him half the time & can't stand him the other half.  It would just be easier if he left for TX and I didn't have to worry he might show up drunk one night.

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2014 14:37:57 GMT -5 Angel! said:

He basically isn't involved with the kids.  I have let him see them when he asks.  So far they happens about once a month.  They come up more frequently as manipulation tools than anything else - like telling me I am selfish for divorcing him because now my kids will suffer

I hope you understand (you probably do) that by being a good example to your kids and showing them that healthy people don't put up with being treated like crap, and that people who treat others like crap lose good partners, you're doing the best thing you could for them.

I divorced when DS was 12. DS turns 30 this year and when I see him with his wife and baby daughter, my heart melts. He's a caring husband, a good provider and wonderful father. I try not to think of how he would have turned out if I'd stayed with his father.

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 13:53:45 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

You can and will repeat patterns over and over until you break yourself of whatever causes you to seek things like this out. I know why I picked bad men and so I stopped but it took a very very long time. Not just a year or two. Fix yourself and good will follow you. Every time I see DFs former stepdaughter, it breaks my heart because she is with an abuser. Even if she were to ever get rid of him, doubtful, she will just find another one. The problem is her. 

I agree that these things tend to be patterns.  I have done a lot of soul-searching & am a very different person now than when he & I met.  I've identified a lot of the factors that led me into such a crappy relationship & a lot of the reasons I kept letting him back into my life.  A few years ago, all this shit he is pulling would have worked & I would have "saved" him and let him come home.  I think that is why he keeps trying different approaches, because historically he could have pushed my buttons & manipulated me, but it doesn't work on me anymore so he is frustrated.  I could be wrong, but I do truly believed & have fixed a lot of the problems in me that would keep the pattern repeating.  I just don't know how to handle him anymore & he truly does know how to piss me off still.  Even if I don't let him know that by not responding, it bugs the shit out of me & I just want to yell at him.  He is a druggie alcoholic who can't bother to pay child support or spend any time with his kids, but I am selfish.

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 15:03:45 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Aug 11, 2014 14:37:57 GMT -5 Angel! said:

He basically isn't involved with the kids.  I have let him see them when he asks.  So far they happens about once a month.  They come up more frequently as manipulation tools than anything else - like telling me I am selfish for divorcing him because now my kids will suffer

I hope you understand (you probably do) that by being a good example to your kids and showing them that healthy people don't put up with being treated like crap, and that people who treat others like crap lose good partners, you're doing the best thing you could for them.

I divorced when DS was 12. DS turns 30 this year and when I see him with his wife and baby daughter, my heart melts. He's a caring husband, a good provider and wonderful father. I try not to think of how he would have turned out if I'd stayed with his father.

I know and that is what kept me going for a long time - Knowing that I didn't want my kids raised in a household like we had.  A kid shouldn't have to see their father drunk or high, it is just horrible.  And DS was starting to get to the age where he was going to know when he dad was messed up.  I am just glad they are young and won't remember most of the specifics of what happened. 

[zibazinski]

It's true, they do know how to get to you. I'd be a liar if I said I still didnt have any feelings at all for my ex but the bad feelings override the good ones. You can tend to forget after awhile the shit they put you and your kids through. He's a sociopath and the best thing this forum ever did for me was to strongly encourage me and others to read The Sociopath Next Door. Oh, my. To a T, baby. Not fixable by anyone ever. I'm so glad even with Dfs health issues to be with him and not my ex.

[zibazinski]

Aug 11, 2014 15:10:40 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Aug 11, 2014 15:03:45 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I hope you understand (you probably do) that by being a good example to your kids and showing them that healthy people don't put up with being treated like crap, and that people who treat others like crap lose good partners, you're doing the best thing you could for them.

I divorced when DS was 12. DS turns 30 this year and when I see him with his wife and baby daughter, my heart melts. He's a caring husband, a good provider and wonderful father. I try not to think of how he would have turned out if I'd stayed with his father.

I know and that is what kept me going for a long time - Knowing that I didn't want my kids raised in a household like we had.  A kid shouldn't have to see their father drunk or high, it is just horrible.  And DS was starting to get to the age where he was going to know when he dad was messed up.  I am just glad they are young and won't remember most of the specifics of what happened. 

I waited too damn long and my kids paid for it. Props to you for getting out sooner.

[Deleted]

Aren't you dating someone else now Angel? 

[Plain Old Petunia]

Aug 11, 2014 11:23:06 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

No, you're not being a b*tch. It's really too bad you can't just automatically delete his e-mails but I understand that with the kids involved, you can't. Can you at least divert them to a separate In Box automatically so you don't see a new one every time it comes in and you can check them in batches when you feel up to it?

To the extent that you can, stay out of his personal drama. What would happen if you replied to his long e-mails with, "I don't need the details of your personal life. When do you want to see the kids next?" If his reply doesn't include anything relevant to his time with your kids or other matters that are required to have your involvement, send the same message back. "I don't need the details of your personal life; is there anything you have to tell me that has to do with the kids' visitation?" Ignore the rest.

If you fund a bus ticket, I'd make darn sure that (a) you bought the ticket, just didn't give him $$$ for it, and (b) that it wasn't easily redeemable for cash. If the bus company gives refunds, I'd tell him to fund it himself and I'd meet him at the bus station and hand over the $$ just before he and his stuff get on that bus and outta town.

 That is excellent advice.   

To which I would like to add, when he emails about his stuff, you say "You do not have any belongings whatsoever at my home.  If you recall, you took what you wanted and sold me the rest for $100."   Don't discuss the matter further.

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 15:17:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aren't you dating someone else now Angel? 

I am.  Although this thread is making me nervous with the talk of repeating patterns & such.  I know there is a huge tendency for women to just find the same guy over an over again.  I truly don't think that is what I am doing, but what if I just can't see it

[cronewitch]

Aug 11, 2014 15:24:54 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Aug 11, 2014 15:17:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aren't you dating someone else now Angel? 

I am.  Although this thread is making me nervous with the talk of repeating patterns & such.  I know there is a huge tendency for women to just find the same guy over an over again.  I truly don't think that is what I am doing, but what if I just can't see it

After my divorce I promised myself I would ask for my parents approval if I ever decided to marry again. If they refused I would wait 5 years to give me a chance to see what they saw. My parents loved my ISO and he them, they were like the good parents he would have loved to have and he would do anything for them. He told me his mom couldn't live with us but if my mom needed a place he would leave me if I didn't ask her to live with us.

I suggest you find your most critical friend and seek their approval if they say it is bad believe them or wait until you can see it.

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2014 15:24:54 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Aug 11, 2014 15:17:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aren't you dating someone else now Angel? 

I am.  Although this thread is making me nervous with the talk of repeating patterns & such.  I know there is a huge tendency for women to just find the same guy over an over again.  I truly don't think that is what I am doing, but what if I just can't see it

I wasn't implying that (although, good thing to keep in mind ), I just figured that has to help with being able to stand your ground against ex. 

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2014 15:36:41 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

Aug 11, 2014 15:24:54 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I am.  Although this thread is making me nervous with the talk of repeating patterns & such.  I know there is a huge tendency for women to just find the same guy over an over again.  I truly don't think that is what I am doing, but what if I just can't see it

After my divorce I promised myself I would ask for my parents approval if I ever decided to marry again. If they refused I would wait 5 years to give me a chance to see what they saw. My parents loved my ISO and he them, they were like the good parents he would have loved to have and he would do anything for them. He told me his mom couldn't live with us but if my mom needed a place he would leave me if I didn't ask her to live with us.

I suggest you find your most critical friend and seek their approval if they say it is bad believe them or wait until you can see it.

I told my two ex-SIL that I was going to have a board of review for any new potential dating partners and they were going to be on it! 

[midjd]

This is going to be a little harsh - but is from my experience. A completely absent father that is never seen or heard from is less damaging than the incidental shows up here and there and calls and arranges visits and then no-shows, etc.

You will see that the oldest will have more issues than the middle child, and the younger one will likely have very little hurt feelings.

A thousand times yes!

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 13:41:41 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Obviously everyone is going to tell you are not a bitch.

I wonder, though, if I am the only one who thinks that well....you kind of deserve this?

You went through pretty much the same thing, what?  5 yrs ago?  There was a 1000 posts thread on old YM about you and your husband who then became your ex.  Everyone was helpful and supportive and nice and trying to guide you through dealing with this guy.  And it seemed like you did. 

And  now you are here, dealing with the same guy again.

So, I don't know if I would be worrying about being a bitch, but I certainly would be trying to work on whatever it is that is made you go back to that kind of relationship and not starting to date any new people for a long time.

See, now everyone is going to tell me that I am a bitch and you'll be all in a clear
 

I'll let you know if I get back together with him to have a fourth kid, I'm thinking maybe around Christmas.  It will give you a head start on the "I told you so"s when things fall apart again

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 15:36:41 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

Aug 11, 2014 15:24:54 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I am.  Although this thread is making me nervous with the talk of repeating patterns & such.  I know there is a huge tendency for women to just find the same guy over an over again.  I truly don't think that is what I am doing, but what if I just can't see it

After my divorce I promised myself I would ask for my parents approval if I ever decided to marry again. If they refused I would wait 5 years to give me a chance to see what they saw. My parents loved my ISO and he them, they were like the good parents he would have loved to have and he would do anything for them. He told me his mom couldn't live with us but if my mom needed a place he would leave me if I didn't ask her to live with us.

I suggest you find your most critical friend and seek their approval if they say it is bad believe them or wait until you can see it.

My coworkers have all met him & liked him, although I am guessing they are not the most critical people.

[Chocolate Lover]

How did they feel about your ex?

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 15:37:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aug 11, 2014 15:24:54 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I am.  Although this thread is making me nervous with the talk of repeating patterns & such.  I know there is a huge tendency for women to just find the same guy over an over again.  I truly don't think that is what I am doing, but what if I just can't see it

I wasn't implying that (although, good thing to keep in mind ), I just figured that has to help with being able to stand your ground against ex. 

He totally would & he is mostly aware of the situation.  I haven't told him about the latest barrage of emails just because I feel bad dragging into drama that I am trying to leave in the past.  I don't want him to feel like I am dating him because I need a guy to protect me or because I can't be alone or anything like that. 

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 15:57:07 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

How did they feel about your ex?

I never got an opinion before our relationship started going to hell.  Then they basically supported me in whatever decisions I made, but all they really knew from that point forward is whatever I told them.

Two coworkers have offered to babysit my kids so I could go on dates    They never did that when I was with my ex, so they must like this one better or are just happy I am with someone better

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2014 16:00:14 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Aug 11, 2014 15:37:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I wasn't implying that (although, good thing to keep in mind ), I just figured that has to help with being able to stand your ground against ex. 

He totally would & he is mostly aware of the situation.  I haven't told him about the latest barrage of emails just because I feel bad dragging into drama that I am trying to leave in the past.  I don't want him to feel like I am dating him because I need a guy to protect me or because I can't be alone or anything like that. 

I wouldn't drag the new guy you're dating into it. I wouldn't even tell him much about it, except that I have a crazy ex. I'd only tell enough for him to be aware for his own personal safety and only because I wouldn't want the ex to pop up somewhere and catch the new guy off guard. Beyond that, I think you haven't know each other long enough to get into all that. Honestly if I met a guy and he had all that going on, I'd tell him to call me when the situation calmed down. Sorry Angel.

[Angel!]

Aug 11, 2014 16:09:36 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Aug 11, 2014 16:00:14 GMT -5 Angel! said:

He totally would & he is mostly aware of the situation.  I haven't told him about the latest barrage of emails just because I feel bad dragging into drama that I am trying to leave in the past.  I don't want him to feel like I am dating him because I need a guy to protect me or because I can't be alone or anything like that. 

I wouldn't drag the new guy you're dating into it. I wouldn't even tell him much about it, except that I have a crazy ex. I'd only tell enough for him to be aware for his own personal safety and only because I wouldn't want the ex to pop up somewhere and catch the new guy off guard. Beyond that, I think you haven't know each other long enough to get into all that. Honestly if I met a guy and he had all that going on, I'd tell him to call me when the situation calmed down. Sorry Angel.

I told him pretty early on that there is always a small chance that my ex might show up drunk one night.  I would have felt guilty not warning him just in case something happened.  It didn't even phase him & he said he wasn't worried about.  I actually think it made him want to be around more because it made him worry, which wasn't what I wanted - I don't want him to get a white knight thing & feel like he needs to save me.  Right now he is off on his two weeks for reserve stuff, so he isn't around for the current drama anyway. 

I also haven't told ex ANYTHING about this guy.  He has been assuming I've been dating someone since long before I was even thinking about dating.  Apparently he feels that if I decided to no longer be with him, that could only be because I found someone new.  He has also sent emails recently about letting him know when the adoption papers are ready so he can give custody of the kids to my "new man" Dumbass. He also went through a phase where he kept asking when me & my man & him & his woman could all hang out & get to know each other....I'm thinking never.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 11, 2014 13:34:16 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::When did "being a bitch" become a bad thing?::

Ummm since always? 

::Be a BIATCH... Be a BAD BIATCH and take ownership of that thing. Tell him Ms Nice doesn't live there no more and you are the new tenant and you aren't taking shit from nobody. ::

The LAST thing she should do is to feed into the drama like this.  He wants her to have this kind of emotional reaction (positive or negative doesn't matter, he wants the attention and reaction). She also doesn't need to speak like a 1990's black woman on a sitcom.

I'd load up the tools (and any other junk of his laying around), take them to his new house, and drop them off.  You can't trust him to cut the cord.  By keeping his stuff around you're just creating that link for him to contact you about it.  Or have a friend take the stuff and drop it off, videotape it, and be done with it. 

The less reaction you have, the better.  Emotion shows you have feelings for him, when he sees he can evoke feelings he'll keep doing it.  Fighting with you is better in his mind than no emotional contact at all.

Not a bad idea. One to consider.

[NancysSummerSip]

Aug 11, 2014 15:24:54 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Aug 11, 2014 15:17:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aren't you dating someone else now Angel? 

I am.  Although this thread is making me nervous with the talk of repeating patterns & such.  I know there is a huge tendency for women to just find the same guy over an over again.  I truly don't think that is what I am doing, but what if I just can't see it

Ask a third party you trust to be your "lookout" on this matter...a friend, a relative or someone whose judgement and advice matter to you. Be prepared to hear things about yourself you won't like. Be prepared to make mistakes. You were in a bad relationship, you got out (and I apologize; I thought the divorce was nowhere near as recent as four months), and you are regaining the ground you lost as an individual.

Be patient with yourself. You have to unlearn patterns of behavior the same way you learned them.

[zibazinski]

You sound like you have your stuff together. Don't tell new guy a bunch of stuff bcuz I have a feeling your ex is going to boogie soon enough. What a relief that'll be.

[Peace Of Mind]

Aug 11, 2014 16:17:44 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Aug 11, 2014 16:09:36 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I wouldn't drag the new guy you're dating into it. I wouldn't even tell him much about it, except that I have a crazy ex. I'd only tell enough for him to be aware for his own personal safety and only because I wouldn't want the ex to pop up somewhere and catch the new guy off guard. Beyond that, I think you haven't know each other long enough to get into all that. Honestly if I met a guy and he had all that going on, I'd tell him to call me when the situation calmed down. Sorry Angel.

I told him pretty early on that there is always a small chance that my ex might show up drunk one night.  I would have felt guilty not warning him just in case something happened.  It didn't even phase him & he said he wasn't worried about.  I actually think it made him want to be around more because it made him worry, which wasn't what I wanted - I don't want him to get a white knight thing & feel like he needs to save me.  Right now he is off on his two weeks for reserve stuff, so he isn't around for the current drama anyway. 

I also haven't told ex ANYTHING about this guy.  He has been assuming I've been dating someone since long before I was even thinking about dating.  Apparently he feels that if I decided to no longer be with him, that could only be because I found someone new.  He has also sent emails recently about letting him know when the adoption papers are ready so he can give custody of the kids to my "new man" Dumbass. He also went through a phase where he kept asking when me & my man & him & his woman could all hang out & get to know each other....I'm thinking never.

Wow!  He is really, ummm, the nicest way I can say this is he's having sex with your mind - or trying to.    

I agree with those that say he's trying to get a reaction and you need to just ignore him completely and just keep it brief and only about the kids.

RE:  Your concerns about future relationships.  Hopefully all the crap he's pulled will be so ingrained that if somebody else tries similar your gut will warn you and set off red flags.  Just go very slowly and don't ever try to "save" future prospects.  Based on what I've read about your ex and his behaviors you were always trying to save or fix him.  Almost in a motherly way.  If you feel you are having to be motherly to a grown man or to save/fix him you know you are in trouble again. 

If they raise a hand to you or shove you in anger (as opposed to playfully) that should be a deal breaker for you. First time. No excuses acceptable.