thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2014 8:42:11 GMT -5
Anyone ever been involved in a situation where a dog attacked? Were you the owner, or were you attacked, or both, or neither? What was the outcome? Was the dog euthanized? Has anyone successfully rehabilitated a dog with multiple attacks on his record or been close to a situation that has rehabilitated an aggressive dog? What are the laws in your area about what happens to dogs like these?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 9, 2014 8:43:50 GMT -5
Unfortunately, it seems the dogs are euthanized instead of the owners.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 9, 2014 9:23:28 GMT -5
I have multiple aggressive dogs but so far no bites. It's a crazy amount of time, money, and energy to work with them and the end result is that you can still never trust them- although as far as I'm concerned biting is natural behavior for dogs which means that you can't trust any dog. And by trust I mean leave them in an uncontrolled setting or give them unsupervised access to children. I'm appalled at how often dogs are allowed to run amok with young children.
So that's not super helpful. I guess I'd say that dogs can be rehabilitated and it is all case by case, but large scale I don't think most people are doing the animals a big favor to keep them alive unless they are running a Cesar Milan style camp.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 9:38:15 GMT -5
My neighbors had a really mean white German Shepherd when my oldest son was little. He bit several people and had the sheriff came out once to quarantine him. I really like this old couple, but I don't know why they didn't get rid of this dog. Nobody wanted them to have to put him down, just rehome or lock up. We're in the country, so I understand not wanting to pen him up, but he shouldn't have been let run loose after proving he was mean. When my son got to be about 2 he would wander over and if our son ran (which he usually did because he was afraid of that dog), the dog went into full predator/prey pursuit mode. He also came into my barn and tormented my cats and if I left the garage door open he'd come in there and pee everywhere (unaltered male). Man, I hated that dog!
Most of the neighbors had a pact that if we ever saw that dog wandering the roads we'd run him down or if he was out during deer hunting he'd be shot. One day he just died and the vet thinks he was poisoned. I'm sure they think one of the neighbors had something to do with it, but I don't think so. Nobody has ever hinted they were responsible and he could have gotten into something on his own. He was always roaming into other people's barns and sheds.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2014 9:48:08 GMT -5
MPL - people always say they want the dog re-homed, but there are so few homes equipped to deal with aggressive dogs. In fact, your neighbors house sounds like all it needed was a fence and it would appear to be that ideal place - an older couple, no children in the house, out in the country, lots of space to run around. Your situation sounds like a nightmare. I actually feel better about what is happening here after reading your situation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 10:08:09 GMT -5
He was what I would consider to be the worst kind of dog. He was a fear biter. He wouldn't bark or growl or act tough UNLESS someone was running away from him (normally kids). He would bite when you didn't know he was coming. He'd sneak up behind and get you in the leg normally. He would run for the hills when he saw me coming. One time I went into the barn and he was in there and he was trapped because the back door was shut. He completely freaked out and was throwing himself against the door (I swear I've never done anything to him but yell at him and maybe throw a rock or two). He was a huge dog. At least 120 pounds or more, but acted like a Pomeranian.
We're in an area where nobody has fences for their dogs except maybe a small kennel for occasional use. But, if they wander or are mean, you need to do something.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 10:12:18 GMT -5
I just saw a Youtube video, showing different videos of babies playing with dogs, crawling all over them. I saw babies grabbing at the ears, tails and faces of dogs and I cringed.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 9, 2014 10:15:06 GMT -5
MPL - people always say they want the dog re-homed, but there are so few homes equipped to deal with aggressive dogs. In fact, your neighbors house sounds like all it needed was a fence and it would appear to be that ideal place - an older couple, no children in the house, out in the country, lots of space to run around. Your situation sounds like a nightmare. I actually feel better about what is happening here after reading your situation. What exactly ìs happening there?
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Aug 9, 2014 10:38:45 GMT -5
My grandmother's chihuahaha bit me so many times when I was little. She bit everyone... But you know it was okay because she was little. I hated that freaking dog.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Aug 9, 2014 10:50:27 GMT -5
DH#1 was bit on the face when he was around 3-4 and was afraid of all dogs for the rest of his life.
My parents had a GS spayed female when I was a baby ...... and I was her baby. She protected me and the only way mom could have me was to feed me.
One time I was around 3 and I took off with the dog ..... and mom couldn't find me. She followed my trail of clothes that I had taken off and finally found me in the middle of an intersection playing with a pile of sand ....... and the dog pacing around me and not letting anyone get me out of there. This was about 1944-45 and had traffic backed up. The police was getting ready to shoot her to get me when mom showed up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 10:57:15 GMT -5
I think most dogs are protective of the family members, especially the children. However, if hurt or startled many dogs will instinctively bite. That is what worries me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 11:05:39 GMT -5
I had the greatest kid dog ever. She really was amazing. While I didn't let toddlers poke her in the eyes or eat out of her food dish, she would have not snapped even if they had done so. She also would not step foot off our property. She knew the boundary line of the entire 15 acres and even if the kids and I left to go for a walk down the road she would stop dead at the property line and not cross. To top it off she was big and imposing so gave strangers pause and kept all the raccoons, coyotes and rabbits away from the house. Man I miss my dog.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 11:13:57 GMT -5
I had the greatest kid dog ever. She really was amazing. While I didn't let toddlers poke her in the eyes or eat out of her food dish, she would have not snapped even if they had done so. She also would not step foot off our property. She knew the boundary line of the entire 15 acres and even if the kids and I left to go for a walk down the road she would stop dead at the property line and not cross. To top it off she was big and imposing so gave strangers pause and kept all the raccoons, coyotes and rabbits away from the house. Man I miss my dog. It sounds like you were a good owner. What kind was she?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 11:32:57 GMT -5
I had the greatest kid dog ever. She really was amazing. While I didn't let toddlers poke her in the eyes or eat out of her food dish, she would have not snapped even if they had done so. She also would not step foot off our property. She knew the boundary line of the entire 15 acres and even if the kids and I left to go for a walk down the road she would stop dead at the property line and not cross. To top it off she was big and imposing so gave strangers pause and kept all the raccoons, coyotes and rabbits away from the house. Man I miss my dog. It sounds like you were a good owner. What kind was she? Her Mom was a Black Lab, dad was a Rottweiler. She just looked like a big black lab.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2014 11:37:25 GMT -5
DH got bit by our lab because he stuck his hand in the middle of a fight between her and our Aussie over a bone.
Here its automatically reported to the county and animal control comes out to question you. We could prove our dogs had their rabies shots, if you can't the county will take your dogs and hold then in quarantine for 3 days.
I can't remember if you only get two offenses or if you get three. Whichever one is the last offense your dog is taken and destroyed.
Our trainer said that DH was incredibly stupid so this isn't a real case of us having an aggressive dog on our hands. As far as actual aggressive dogs it is very very rare, if not impossible to stop it once it starts. It would require intensive training and a lifetime commitment on the part of the owner.
If you have children our trainer said if your dog starts attempting to bite or has bitten someone then it's best to rehome the dog if possible because you're going to be living with a time bomb.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 9, 2014 11:50:42 GMT -5
I don't understand why people want to rehome aggressive dogs. Most people can't even train their dogs to have even a hint of manners, let alone retrain to ward off aggressive responses. If I die, I want my dogs euthanized because I'd rather that than have them bite someone or live the rest of their lives in a cage.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2014 11:51:40 GMT -5
My neighbors are those kind of people who think they can save every troubled soul. Usually they focus on people who have a variety of unfortunate circumstances. For the most part, we are okay with it. They brought one of their screwed up kids to a party at our house and $35 disappeared from my husband's wallet. There were some other kids we didn't know that well - so who knows - it could have been anyone. But, they have taken in two dogs who are both (what I consider) lost causes. The one dog is a nightmare. He might be part Jack Russell - but he is way too big. He has the energy and ability to jump and run like a jack, but bigger. They always say he is a mutt and don't speculate much about his breed. (Maybe part pit?) That dog is a few years old and has never been adequately trained. They were in California with him and he attacked another dog on the beach and drew blood. Our neighbor said that it started out as playing - rather than a full on lunge or something, and then got out of control. They paid the $650 vet bill and said they were going to hire a trainer. Money had been an issue in the household, and I never saw any evidence that they were working with a trainer. Then they took the dog to an off-leash dog park and he attacked another dog. So, they paid the vet bill. This time the "trainer" talk got more concrete. Meanwhile, they took in another dog - again a mutt, but even bigger. He actually looks a lot like this bull dog. That dog was at the age where he was a puppy in the body of a dog. He needed a lot of training. I thought it was going well, and then the female owner showed up with a weird bruise and she said while walking the dog, the dog took off and ended up knocking her down. She then told some other war stories about the difficulty of walking this dog. A lady showed up at my door a few weeks ago, covered in bruises and stitches. She and her dog were out for a walk in our neighborhood and two dogs on my street attacked her. Her dog was a mess and she looked like she had been hurled through a windshield. I will say she was tiny - 5-foot nothing at best, and I would give her at least a donut or possibly a bowling bowl if she needed to break 100 pounds. She identified the dogs, and another person who was driving by and ended up pulling her out of the dog's path also said they were the dogs. I assumed the one with a history of aggression was the actual attacker, and the other one was just tagging along, but she said it was the bigger one who did the most damage to her. So now my neighbors have 2 dogs with documented attacks. If they were my dogs, I would have euthanized them that day. But no - good old Mr. and Mrs Bleeding Heart don't feel that is the right thing to do. Meanwhile, my kids pass by their house 4 times a day. We have considered these people friends, but I can't believe what selfish assholes they are being. I won't feel safe until both of those dogs are gone. And, for the first time in the 13 years I've lived here, there isn't anyone walking on our street. I miss seeing everyone.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Aug 9, 2014 11:56:11 GMT -5
My dog bit me a few months back. I reached over and roughly scratched his ear, unbeknownst to me he had a horrible ear infection. He yelped snarled and bit all in a matter of a second. As soon as he bit into my wrist his ears went back and he started whimpering. It was a surface would but hurt like crazy and even left a scar. He spent the rest of the night with his ears back trying to be near me and curl up with me. He has never bit anyone otherwise... And he is 9. We are just more diligent and careful with his ears... Otherwise no fear of another bite.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 9, 2014 12:02:41 GMT -5
Mr. And mrs. Bleeding Heart are huge problems. Do you know when the court date is set? It doesn't sound like the first 2 incidents were reported officially but the court will ask if it is the first bite.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I would be concerned as well. Since you're friends have you asked them what measures they are taking to prevent another incident? New fencing, basket muzzles, boat loads of training? I don't know that you can get through to people like that but maybe if they realize that others are afraid of the dogs they might take action?
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Aug 9, 2014 12:12:20 GMT -5
I grew up in a house with several Irish wolfhounds. A distant relative had bought one at a pet shop that grew up in a crate and then tried to raise it for a couple of years in a crate in an apartment, and finally gave up. So my parents agreed to take him, give him some training, and try to let him live more like a wolfhound should, on our acre. He was totally unlike our other wolfhounds. When they were in the house they would just lay in the corner being all relaxed but he was hyper and would growl and raise his hackles at any male that came anywhere near. He was much more aggressive than was typical for the breed. Eventually one of my friend's brothers came over and he attacked him. So my parents had him put down. They said they would have tried more training if he had been typical of the breed, but he was just to big to have an aggressive temperament and something must have happened to him as a puppy to mess him up more than we could repair. It still makes me sad to think of it, but I don't know that we could have done any more for him. This is not our pic, but just to give you an idea of the size.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2014 12:22:21 GMT -5
Mr. And mrs. Bleeding Heart are huge problems. Do you know when the court date is set? It doesn't sound like the first 2 incidents were reported officially but the court will ask if it is the first bite. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I would be concerned as well. Since you're friends have you asked them what measures they are taking to prevent another incident? New fencing, basket muzzles, boat loads of training? I don't know that you can get through to people like that but maybe if they realize that others are afraid of the dogs they might take action? Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards They aren't the best listeners - I have been trying to think about what I will say to them. I'm considering saying "Get rid of your f-in' dogs you assholes." But I might be a little more politically correct and ask them to consider the neighborhood and specifically my children. They have been like an aunt and uncle to them. My daughter goes over there and crafts with her, and we used to feed their cat when they went on vacation. We won't let our kids back in that house until those dogs are gone. Sad for everyone. I think they are adding stress into a household that really doesn't need any additional stress. (IMHO)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2014 14:36:39 GMT -5
Update: The owner came down today to tell me how responsible they were going to be with their dog, and it wasn't actually the second dog - it was the same one that attacked the dogs. I told him that he needed to get rid of the dog. He says that the dog has never been aggressive to people and didn't bite our neighbor, but she was bitten by her own dog while her dog was fighting with his dog. I told him that his dog was a nightmare, he would never be rehabilitated and he was being irresponsible to his community. He reiterated that the dog is not aggressive towards people. I told him that I don't care - the dog has three strikes. He needs to go. My neighbor left, pissed off at me. Friendship over, I guess. He made his choice.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Aug 9, 2014 15:18:46 GMT -5
Thyme I'm sorry about that.
To answer the original question I have been bitten and playfully nipped by several dogs. My parent's were the people who would collect dogs, I think at one point they had over 20. Anyways least to say dog fights would break out and we would have to break them apart. My mom also decided once to get wolf/husky mix breeds. Those things were aggressive and a PITA. Anyone who I hear talking about getting one I say NO, and then tell horror stories about them.
Our current dog will try and groom us with his teeth and sometimes get below the clothing to the skin. He also does this off nudge/poke thing with his nose that has left a bruise on me before.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Aug 9, 2014 15:35:11 GMT -5
I think most dog bites are people issues. Just this weekend I was walking my three reactive dogs on leash on a trail. Do you know how many people we met with off leash dogs?!! Oh he's friendly!. Yeah, mine may be small but they are not - so control your dog. My dogs react even if I slightly raise my voice, if I have to stop on a trail and yell at you several times to leash your dog...that just makes them worse. It is so frustrating. But that is only one issue. Why do people feel the need to put their faces into a strange dogs face? Loom over small dogs and pat the top of their heads (dogs generally hate having their heads petted) and in general remain oblivious to all the signals dogs give that they are uncomfortable? If you pay the slightest bit of attention you can see a dog bite coming a mile away. My dogs can be difficult, but I know what triggers them and I try to avoid these triggers. For example, I do not bring them around small children as they are not really used to being around small children and are easily excited. If your dog is involved in a bite incident you need to understand why it happened, assess the severity of the bite and take immediate steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. Whether that is seeing a behaviourist or euthanizing the animal you need to do something. Unfortunately, there are many soft hearted people who can't make that type of decision and will just "hope" it doesn't happen again. Or worse bring a fearful dog to be "rehabilitated" by a Cesar Milanesque trainer. I think thyme4change did what any responsible neighbour would do.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Aug 9, 2014 15:40:24 GMT -5
My aunt and uncle had 3 pitbulls. All three were different, personality wise. The first one loved people and other dogs. She was very laidback and would let you pull her ears, take her food, etc. The second one was aggressive with other dogs. She like humans but seemed to get overwhelmed and would run and hide from a crowd. The third one was a people lover. She seemed to like other dogs but after living with the second one, got aggressive towards other dogs. They didn't have any issues with any biting of humans (their granddaughter lived with them and would play with the dogs all the time) but there were several dog fights where the second and third dogs ripped each other up. They made sure to keep them away from other dogs. They did have issues when walking their dogs where their neighbors would have their dogs loose in the street/front yards. When the neighbors' dogs would run up to them, my aunt/uncle would have to fend off the loose dogs while controlling their dogs. I walked the third one once and one of their neighbors had their dog running loose. The dog came up to us and I started yelling at it and swinging my end of the leash to get it away from us (We had crossed to the other side of the street before hand because I had seen the dog. The dog came up to us across the street). The owners started yelling at me for swinging at their dog and I had to yell back to come get their dog. I figured it would be more humane for their dog to have a potential leash hit than getting torn up by another dog...
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 9, 2014 15:47:44 GMT -5
Update: The owner came down today to tell me how responsible they were going to be with their dog, and it wasn't actually the second dog - it was the same one that attacked the dogs. I told him that he needed to get rid of the dog. He says that the dog has never been aggressive to people and didn't bite our neighbor, but she was bitten by her own dog while her dog was fighting with his dog. I told him that his dog was a nightmare, he would never be rehabilitated and he was being irresponsible to his community. He reiterated that the dog is not aggressive towards people. I told him that I don't care - the dog has three strikes. He needs to go. My neighbor left, pissed off at me. Friendship over, I guess. He made his choice. Aren't there any leash laws in your town? If the two dogs were fighting were one or both not leashed? And any idea whose property the dog fight took place?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2014 15:55:19 GMT -5
I heard a completely different story that doesn't make any sense to me today. The (female) owner claimed she was there and had the attacking dog on a leash. The person who was attacked and the guy that found her said the dogs were running loose. I have heard the attack was 3 houses down from the aggressive dog.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 9, 2014 17:56:16 GMT -5
The (female) owner claimed she was there and had the attacking dog on a leash. In some ways that's worse. If the problem dogs were running loose because of a fixable event (a gate broke, someone dug a hole) and the owners were on top of fixing that issue, then you might not be as worried about your kids in the future. But if the problem dog was on a leash with the owner and the owner was unable to control the dog even while it was leashed, that's very, very bad and not really fixable since presumably she's still going to be walking the dog.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Aug 9, 2014 18:01:56 GMT -5
My own dog bit me once. But only because I was trying to pry a chicken leg out of his mouth.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 19:15:49 GMT -5
Anyone ever been involved in a situation where a dog attacked? Were you the owner, or were you attacked, or both, or neither? What was the outcome? Was the dog euthanized? Has anyone successfully rehabilitated a dog with multiple attacks on his record or been close to a situation that has rehabilitated an aggressive dog? What are the laws in your area about what happens to dogs like these? I had a standard poodle that was very protective of me, my kids and my property. He was agressive towards anyone that came in my yard or got too close to any of us. I got him when he was 10 months old and his previous owner had started "protection training" that I didn't continue. So I don't know if my dog's actions were natural for him or because of the training he'd had. BUT, he was capable of accepting people if I coached the human on what to do and told my dog to "make friends". Unfortunately, most people were either too afraid or more interested in getting him riled up instead. Anyway, he bit a man one time when I had my dogs out in a park. It was late afternoon and the man was in a business suit, but acted like he was drunk. He kept trying to talk to me and I kept telling him to not approach me because my dog would bite. He was a very big man and since he was acting like he was drunk, I didn't want him near me anyway. I'd shortened my dog's leash, but I didn't make him lie down like I normally did when people approached us. I don't know if my dog sensed my tension or if it was just because he didn't like people close to me and the kids, but before I could stop him, he bit the man on the leg when he got close to me. The man yelled "That ugly mother f****r bit me!". His pants leg had saliva on them from my dog's mouth, but there weren't holes from his teeth. I tried to ask him if he was ok, but he was busy yelling and cursing, so I told my kids "Let's go". And we got in the car and left. I didn't know what to do because he was acting crazy. I knew my dog had an attitude so I kept him contained and/or kept an eye on him. I'd trained him and my Bullmastiff to obey commands from me and my kids. I would let him loose in my fenced in backyard (only if I was at home and awake though) and I did have problems for a long time with neighborhood kids and adults coming in my yard, up to my fence to taunt him. He would bark like crazy and actually bite on the chain link fence because he couldn't get to them and I'd hear the barking and run them out of my yard and bring him inside. They thought it was funny that such a "pretty" dog was so mean. I think he was tall enough to jump the fence if he wanted, but thank God he never figured it out. As far as rehabilitation for aggressive dogs, I think dogs can have mental disorders just like people do. Or they can be abused to the point that they'll never function normally even if they end up in a good home. My knowledge of the laws here about dog bites is minimal. I do know that I had a Chow that bit my daughter unprovoked when DD was about 11 yo. I called her pediatrician to ask what to do because it broke her skin. They told me that if I brought her in, they would have to report it and "they" would come get my dog and quarantine her for a certain amount of time. I don't know what would have happened after that. She told me that if my dog was current on her shots, I could clean the wound really good and keep an eye out for infection. I took the dog to the vet the next day, hoping she was sick or something to explain why she'd bit my daughter. She wasn't sick, so I had to make a decision because I couldn't keep a dog that would bite my kids for no reason. The vet said normally they would try to find a home for her, but she was old. I'd had her since before my kids were born and she'd always been a good dog. They ended up putting her to sleep. And my daughter still has a keloid scar on her wrist from the bite. After the fact, I figured out what probably happened, but it was still unprovoked and it was too late anyway.
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