ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 12, 2014 15:53:02 GMT -5
Have your pets spade and neutered.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 15:56:08 GMT -5
Well odds of someone having a 2 month old and a husband going through major surgery and taking enough narcotic pain meds that normal people are passed out on a daily basis is pretty slim. That said, our dog had not bit anyone yet. It was coming to that point and we were trying very hard to find a home for her before it came to that. I feel very much that people we know in real life abandoned us on our quest to do this. I feel like when I post for a week that ok we are going to have to do this and then AFTER we actually do it when someone posts why don't you call the place that you adopted her from. That reaks of someone wanting to cast judgement instead of help. Anyway, we called the shelter ahead of time. They said yes she could be rehomed to a home without little kids. They changed their tune when DH took her in. I think DH was just shocked. Anyway, point being if you really want to be helpful and keep animals out of shelters/from being euthanized. Then offer help help. ANd not just in general, but the people in your lives that are having a hard time that due to changes in family circumstances may not be able to continue to care for their pets. Offer to help them. Hell, we had friends that took it upon themselves to mow our yard last year because DH couldn't do it and I couldn't figure out how to do it and work and care for the kids. They just showed up and did it. That is was what people who actually help do. They do something. I will forever be bitter at Margo for never once offering to help while posting pictures/talking about the no-kill shelter on facebook. Slactivism at its best. Post something to "raise awareness" without having to do a damn thing. Go you. most adoption contracts state that if you can't keep the animal for whatever reason you must return it to them (at least mine from the shelter for the cats and the rescue for the dog did). I'm pretty sure when you posted about having to rehome her I told you to contract the group you adopted her from. I also told you that only 10% of animals, on average, make it out of a shelter. I'm sure you'll have another response to me full of vile, but have at it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 15:56:42 GMT -5
Have your pets spade and neutered. spayed....but not sure what that has to do with anything here.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 12, 2014 15:58:09 GMT -5
I am not judging what muttley did - they made the decision they had too at the time. Having that dog in their home with small children was obviously not an option. I grew up with a dog that was a biter, it was a stressful PIA to constantly be on guard and making sure the dog was sequestered from guests/children.
I don't disagree, regarding the placement and timing of singlemominmd's post - but I get the place it was coming from - it was my first knee jerk thought upon reading muttley's post, and it didn't surprise me at all that a post like that showed up.
I'm sorry your vet did that; I have been very lucky in that regard - my past vets have been awesome when it came time to euthanize. Like with anything, there are good vets and bad vets. If my vet refused to euthanize I would be looking for a new one ASAP.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 12, 2014 15:58:32 GMT -5
Have your pets spade and neutered. spayed....but not sure what that has to do with anything here. It is the responsible thing to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 15:59:58 GMT -5
Then singlemom should start a new thread titled "what to do when you need to surrender a pet." I don't think info buried on the second or third page of a thread about dog bites (and in direct response to muttley's post) is going to be very helpful to lurkers. JMO. And for what it's worth, having an animal euthanized is not always as simple as just taking them to the vet. I took my very sick 14yo dog to the vet last year to have her put to sleep - the vet said he wouldn't do that without "giving her a chance" and sent me home with $300 worth of meds (this was on a Saturday). She continued to get worse, and died in the car Monday morning on our way back to the vet. So having an animal euthanized may not be as easy as it sounds. I am still mad at myself - and at that stupid vet - for making her suffer 36 hours longer than she needed to. I can't imagine a vet refusing to euthanize an animal that is clearly ill and in pain (not like you were bringing in a 4 year old healthy dog). My vet sent me a sympathy card after I had to put one of my cats to sleep.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 16:00:51 GMT -5
spayed....but not sure what that has to do with anything here. It is the responsible thing to do. and I'm betting everyone posting on this thread does the responsible thing.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 12, 2014 16:01:12 GMT -5
Well odds of someone having a 2 month old and a husband going through major surgery and taking enough narcotic pain meds that normal people are passed out on a daily basis is pretty slim. That said, our dog had not bit anyone yet. It was coming to that point and we were trying very hard to find a home for her before it came to that. I feel very much that people we know in real life abandoned us on our quest to do this. I feel like when I post for a week that ok we are going to have to do this and then AFTER we actually do it when someone posts why don't you call the place that you adopted her from. That reaks of someone wanting to cast judgement instead of help. Anyway, we called the shelter ahead of time. They said yes she could be rehomed to a home without little kids. They changed their tune when DH took her in. I think DH was just shocked. Anyway, point being if you really want to be helpful and keep animals out of shelters/from being euthanized. Then offer help help. ANd not just in general, but the people in your lives that are having a hard time that due to changes in family circumstances may not be able to continue to care for their pets. Offer to help them. Hell, we had friends that took it upon themselves to mow our yard last year because DH couldn't do it and I couldn't figure out how to do it and work and care for the kids. They just showed up and did it. That is was what people who actually help do. They do something. I will forever be bitter at Margo for never once offering to help while posting pictures/talking about the no-kill shelter on facebook. Slactivism at its best. Post something to "raise awareness" without having to do a damn thing. Go you. most adoption contracts state that if you can't keep the animal for whatever reason you must return it to them (at least mine from the shelter for the cats and the rescue for the dog did). I'm pretty sure when you posted about having to rehome her I told you to contract the group you adopted her from. I also told you that only 10% of animals, on average, make it out of a shelter. I'm sure you'll have another response to me full of vile, but have at it. You told me after the fact. I had been posting for over a week about it and the day I posted that DH is taking the dog to the shelter that morning, you post in the afternoon to look at the adoption contract! I would have gladly done that if I had just known to where to look. I really was completely lost as to what resources to use.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 12, 2014 16:02:14 GMT -5
It is the responsible thing to do. and I'm betting everyone posting on this thread does the responsible thing. I'm not a betting man.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 16:02:59 GMT -5
most adoption contracts state that if you can't keep the animal for whatever reason you must return it to them (at least mine from the shelter for the cats and the rescue for the dog did). I'm pretty sure when you posted about having to rehome her I told you to contract the group you adopted her from. I also told you that only 10% of animals, on average, make it out of a shelter. I'm sure you'll have another response to me full of vile, but have at it. You told me after the fact. I had been posting for over a week about it and the day I posted that DH is taking the dog to the shelter that morning, you post in the afternoon to look at the adoption contract! I would have gladly done that if I had just known to where to look. I really was completely lost as to what resources to use. truce.... but hopefully if someone else reading this thread is faced with the same situation, they'll have better ideas now.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 12, 2014 16:09:32 GMT -5
Owning an aggressive dog is a huge responsibility. Most people don't get it
Our lab is not a kid dog. She likes/tolerates OUR child/children but otherwise she doesn't really like children. She's not aggressive but she can get very nervous which could lead to a bad situation. We're always on top of it but I can't believe the number of adults who let their kid run up towards a dog they don't know. Then get pissed at me when I tell their children to stop, you cannot pet my dog she does not like children. Excuse me for being a responsible pet owner. I would think you'd WANT a dog owner to be responsible and not allow children to pet a dog they are aware may bite.
Nobody seems to teach their kids proper dog etiquette anymore. A view from the perspective of a non-dog owner parent: I don't think that other people are obligated to teach their kids proper dog etiquette. Apparently they chose not to keep a dog. However, you did choose to keep a dog. And you happen to have a dog that doesn't like kids. Then you choose to take the dog to locations where there are kids. And it is other people who aren't doing what they should? While you are behaving like a responsible pet own in warning parents and kids that your dog doesn't like children and refusing to let kids pet the dog, I think you dog's behavior and insecurities is an issue you need to manage. And not something you should expect that strangers will have taught their children to recognize and understand. Parents ticked off because you won't let their kid pet your dog? Or is the parent annoyed that you have brought a pet you know may be inclined to bite a child into an environment where kids are likely to be present? I understand that people like to walk their dog and spend time outdoors with their pet. But, considering how anxious your pet gets around kids, maybe another location or a time of the day when kids are likely to be around would be a better fit for your pet.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 12, 2014 16:12:00 GMT -5
It is the responsible thing to do. and I'm betting everyone posting on this thread does the responsible thing. When it comes to getting my animals fixed - yes. But I am not commenting on any other aspect of my life....
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 12, 2014 16:26:05 GMT -5
Then singlemom should start a new thread titled "what to do when you need to surrender a pet." I don't think info buried on the second or third page of a thread about dog bites (and in direct response to muttley's post) is going to be very helpful to lurkers. JMO. And for what it's worth, having an animal euthanized is not always as simple as just taking them to the vet. I took my very sick 14yo dog to the vet last year to have her put to sleep - the vet said he wouldn't do that without "giving her a chance" and sent me home with $300 worth of meds (this was on a Saturday). She continued to get worse, and died in the car Monday morning on our way back to the vet. So having an animal euthanized may not be as easy as it sounds. I am still mad at myself - and at that stupid vet - for making her suffer 36 hours longer than she needed to. I can't imagine a vet refusing to euthanize an animal that is clearly ill and in pain (not like you were bringing in a 4 year old healthy dog). My vet sent me a sympathy card after I had to put one of my cats to sleep. Oh, this vet sent a sympathy card too... I threw it in the trash. I should have left as soon as I got the sleazy car salesman vibe, but it was the only vet office in town that was open on Saturday. DH was a week out from having his femur surgically broken, and I was five months pregnant, so not in the most rational state of mind. Anyway, my point was that not all shelter employees are slack-jawed deadbeats who get pleasure from killing animals, and not all veterinarians are wonderful people who put their love for animals above all else.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 12, 2014 16:30:59 GMT -5
Hindsight is always lovely. Obviously singlemominmd's comments are no longer helpful in muttley's case, but it could very well prove useful for someone that has yet to go through this experience. If it is clear that you have to put your dog/cat/whatever down - at least have the decency to do it yourself with your vet. I have seen owner's rationalize a shelter surrender as "at least giving them a chance." Here's a tip - if your dog is a biter, it has no chance - at least not at any reputable shelter; rescues are a slightly different story.
This may be easier said than done. Same friend who works at the shelter had to deal with her mom's 3 older cats after her mom died. My friend already has 3 cats and a dog, so adding 3 elderly cats and their problems to her household wasn't going to happen (she tried to integrate them, but it wasn't happening). She couldn't get anyone to take them.
She finally called an old boyfriend of her's and called in a favor from him. He was a vet (she used to work in his clinic) and he VERY reluctantly euthanized the cats. She tried her regular vet, he flat out refused to do so.
So finding someone to euthanize a healthy pet may be difficult to do.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 12, 2014 16:44:10 GMT -5
Sounds like a really bad idea not to teach your kids to respect animals even if you choose not to have any. Maybe if you live in a high rise in NYC and the only wildlife they'll see is a squirrel....but kids should be taught to respect animals and their space just as they are taught to respect other people and their space. If you choose not to do so, you shoulder part of the blame if something happens to your kid since you refused to teach them better.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 12, 2014 16:48:12 GMT -5
Owning an aggressive dog is a huge responsibility. Most people don't get it
Our lab is not a kid dog. She likes/tolerates OUR child/children but otherwise she doesn't really like children. She's not aggressive but she can get very nervous which could lead to a bad situation. We're always on top of it but I can't believe the number of adults who let their kid run up towards a dog they don't know. Then get pissed at me when I tell their children to stop, you cannot pet my dog she does not like children. Excuse me for being a responsible pet owner. I would think you'd WANT a dog owner to be responsible and not allow children to pet a dog they are aware may bite.
Nobody seems to teach their kids proper dog etiquette anymore. A view from the perspective of a non-dog owner parent: I don't think that other people are obligated to teach their kids proper dog etiquette. Apparently they chose not to keep a dog. However, you did choose to keep a dog. And you happen to have a dog that doesn't like kids. Then you choose to take the dog to locations where there are kids. And it is other people who aren't doing what they should? While you are behaving like a responsible pet own in warning parents and kids that your dog doesn't like children and refusing to let kids pet the dog, I think you dog's behavior and insecurities is an issue you need to manage. And not something you should expect that strangers will have taught their children to recognize and understand. Parents ticked off because you won't let their kid pet your dog? Or is the parent annoyed that you have brought a pet you know may be inclined to bite a child into an environment where kids are likely to be present? I understand that people like to walk their dog and spend time outdoors with their pet. But, considering how anxious your pet gets around kids, maybe another location or a time of the day when kids are likely to be around would be a better fit for your pet. Skeeter, I don't know what the setting was that Drama was referring to, but in our dog's case, the issues arose when just walking on the sidewalk around our neighborhood. We didn't specifically take the dog to locations where there are kids, but when you walk your dog around the neighborhood there are sometimes other people are out as well. When we'd get close to other people, we'd step off the sidewalk to give them lots of room to get by and explain that she wasn't friendly with strangers. That seems a reasonable approach to me. After all that, we'd still have adults and children deliberately veer off the sidewalk to approach her.
Not really sure what other alternatives would be other than not walk the dog at all, which seems unreasonable.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Aug 12, 2014 17:10:41 GMT -5
A view from the perspective of a non-dog owner parent: I don't think that other people are obligated to teach their kids proper dog etiquette. Apparently they chose not to keep a dog. However, you did choose to keep a dog. And you happen to have a dog that doesn't like kids. Then you choose to take the dog to locations where there are kids. And it is other people who aren't doing what they should? While you are behaving like a responsible pet own in warning parents and kids that your dog doesn't like children and refusing to let kids pet the dog, I think you dog's behavior and insecurities is an issue you need to manage. And not something you should expect that strangers will have taught their children to recognize and understand. Parents ticked off because you won't let their kid pet your dog? Or is the parent annoyed that you have brought a pet you know may be inclined to bite a child into an environment where kids are likely to be present? I understand that people like to walk their dog and spend time outdoors with their pet. But, considering how anxious your pet gets around kids, maybe another location or a time of the day when kids are likely to be around would be a better fit for your pet. Sorry tskeeter- but it is thinking like that than can get your child bit. Any dog can bite. If an unknown person coming running towards my dog and instantly starts petting her head- the potential is there. ALWAYS. I was at a show, with my dog in a crate, when a 5 yo came up and reached her fingers in. That can bother any dog. So yeah, parents should teach their kids how to ask about petting a dog. Just like you would teach your kids to look both ways before they cross the street.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 12, 2014 17:49:20 GMT -5
A view from the perspective of a non-dog owner parent: I don't think that other people are obligated to teach their kids proper dog etiquette. Apparently they chose not to keep a dog. However, you did choose to keep a dog. And you happen to have a dog that doesn't like kids. Then you choose to take the dog to locations where there are kids. And it is other people who aren't doing what they should? While you are behaving like a responsible pet own in warning parents and kids that your dog doesn't like children and refusing to let kids pet the dog, I think you dog's behavior and insecurities is an issue you need to manage. And not something you should expect that strangers will have taught their children to recognize and understand. Parents ticked off because you won't let their kid pet your dog? Or is the parent annoyed that you have brought a pet you know may be inclined to bite a child into an environment where kids are likely to be present? I understand that people like to walk their dog and spend time outdoors with their pet. But, considering how anxious your pet gets around kids, maybe another location or a time of the day when kids are likely to be around would be a better fit for your pet. Skeeter, I don't know what the setting was that Drama was referring to, but in our dog's case, the issues arose when just walking on the sidewalk around our neighborhood. We didn't specifically take the dog to locations where there are kids, but when you walk your dog around the neighborhood there are sometimes other people are out as well. When we'd get close to other people, we'd step off the sidewalk to give them lots of room to get by and explain that she wasn't friendly with strangers. That seems a reasonable approach to me. After all that, we'd still have adults and children deliberately veer off the sidewalk to approach her.
Not really sure what other alternatives would be other than not walk the dog at all, which seems unreasonable.
My realy intent was just to offer a different perspective to the idea that all people should teach their kids how to behave appropriately around other people's pets, and how to recognize when a variety of different animals might be showing signs of distress. In some respects, I'm reacting to the idea that others must accomodate me and my wishes, not me accomodate the situation I choose to create for myself. (I dislike people bringing their dog to Home Depot on a busy Saturday morning and expecting all of the other customers to accomodate their scared pet that is being bombarded by strangers who are trying to get through tight aisle spaces, who step on and bang into a dog they aren't aware is there. I don't think this is treating the pet very well. It can't be a fun experience for the pet. And the presence of a pet in that type of situation is an imposition on other custormers. It ain't Pet Smart, it's Home Depot, for heaven sake.) However, if a person had a pet that was anxious around small children, there are a couple of possible alternatives. The first would be to take the dog to a dog park, if one is available. When I've had our dogs at a variety of dog parks, I don't remember ever seeing kids around. The second alternative might be a different time of day. Small children are not normally out and about on sidewalks early in the morning or later at night. So, 6 AM or 9 PM walks would reduce the likelyhood that a kid averse dog would come in contact with young children. Your pet. It's up to your to make the accomodation for your pet's disposition and anxieties. Not the rest of the world.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 12, 2014 17:52:27 GMT -5
I've definitely seen them of all ages at dog parks. A have friends that take their one year old to the dog park. Actually I'm pretty sure she went before she was one.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Aug 12, 2014 18:02:52 GMT -5
But the reality is that kids will encounter dogs at some point in time. Regardless of where and they need to be taught how to approach, if they are going to do so. You are responsible for your childs curiosity. Not the rest of the world.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 12, 2014 18:07:20 GMT -5
So, 6 AM or 9 PM walks would reduce the likelyhood that a kid averse dog would come in contact with young children.
How do you get a dog to poop and pee only between 9 pm and 6 am?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 12, 2014 18:08:44 GMT -5
I've definitely seen them of all ages at dog parks. A have friends that take their one year old to the dog park. Actually I'm pretty sure she went before she was one. There are a lot of kids at the dog park that we take the mutt to too.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 12, 2014 18:32:04 GMT -5
A view from the perspective of a non-dog owner parent: I don't think that other people are obligated to teach their kids proper dog etiquette. Apparently they chose not to keep a dog. However, you did choose to keep a dog. And you happen to have a dog that doesn't like kids. Then you choose to take the dog to locations where there are kids. And it is other people who aren't doing what they should? While you are behaving like a responsible pet own in warning parents and kids that your dog doesn't like children and refusing to let kids pet the dog, I think you dog's behavior and insecurities is an issue you need to manage. And not something you should expect that strangers will have taught their children to recognize and understand. Parents ticked off because you won't let their kid pet your dog? Or is the parent annoyed that you have brought a pet you know may be inclined to bite a child into an environment where kids are likely to be present? I understand that people like to walk their dog and spend time outdoors with their pet. But, considering how anxious your pet gets around kids, maybe another location or a time of the day when kids are likely to be around would be a better fit for your pet. Sorry tskeeter- but it is thinking like that than can get your child bit. Any dog can bite. If an unknown person coming running towards my dog and instantly starts petting her head- the potential is there. ALWAYS. I was at a show, with my dog in a crate, when a 5 yo came up and reached her fingers in. That can bother any dog. So yeah, parents should teach their kids how to ask about petting a dog. Just like you would teach your kids to look both ways before they cross the street. I understand the hazards. And I agree that any dog can bite. As a dog owner, I always thought that it was possible that one of the dogs might bite me. But I don't think it is reasonable to expect that others will have taught their children how to behave around your pet. Especially if you think your pet has the inclination to exhibit certain behaviors toward other people. Whether the behavior be peeing on their shoes, or biting people who exhibit certain physical characeristics. As adults, most of us demonstrate a certain amount of respect for animals we aren't familiar with. Kids don't recognize the hazards as readily. The second part of my comments are directed at the idea that others are obligated to make accomodations for everyone they come in contact with. Must I accept your choice to smoke while sitting in the seat next to me? Must I eat vegan simply because you choose to eat a vegan diet? Must I happily share half of my airplane seat with you because you weigh 400 pounds and did not book two adjacent seats? Must I be prohibited from eating peanuts because you have an allergy? Am I obligated to teach my children how to interact with your potentially dangerous dog? Or are you obligated to take reasonable steps to minimize the risk to the public, including my children, created by your potentially dangerous pet? While I agree that, from a personal safety stand point, teaching children about how to interact with strange animals is a good idea (the same way teaching kids not to handle guns they might find laying around is a good idea). I don't think that is an expectation that pet owners have the right to impose on others. Now, if a parent takes a kid to a dog show, I think it is reasonable for the parent to expect that the kid will probably come into contact with strange animals. And I would expect the parent to have taught the kid about how to interact with the animals and not expect animal owners and trainers to manage the interaction between their child and the animals being shown. It was the parent's choice to bring the child to the dog show and the parent should not expect to impose the obligation to teach their child about how stressed animals might react to the child on the dog owners and trainers. By the same token, I don't think that pet owners, in public spaces, with a potentially dangerous pet, during the time that children are usually about, should impose teaching their personal version of pet etiquette on all of the parents of all of the kids who might be around.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 12, 2014 18:42:19 GMT -5
I don't think it is imposing on other people to consider that animals have personal space. It is a safety issue, same as crossing the street IMO as a parent. As a pet owner, I've not had an issue in public (our issue was the inability to properly separate and supervise our 3 year old son and 6 year old dog at home without severely limiting both of their independence). Teaching my kids caution and respect is a no brainer.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 12, 2014 18:54:31 GMT -5
Sorry tskeeter- but it is thinking like that than can get your child bit. Any dog can bite. If an unknown person coming running towards my dog and instantly starts petting her head- the potential is there. ALWAYS. I was at a show, with my dog in a crate, when a 5 yo came up and reached her fingers in. That can bother any dog. So yeah, parents should teach their kids how to ask about petting a dog. Just like you would teach your kids to look both ways before they cross the street. I understand the hazards. And I agree that any dog can bite. As a dog owner, I always thought that it was possible that one of the dogs might bite me. But I don't think it is reasonable to expect that others will have taught their children how to behave around your pet. Especially if you think your pet has the inclination to exhibit certain behaviors toward other people. Whether the behavior be peeing on their shoes, or biting people who exhibit certain physical characeristics. As adults, most of us demonstrate a certain amount of respect for animals we aren't familiar with. Kids don't recognize the hazards as readily. The second part of my comments are directed at the idea that others are obligated to make accomodations for everyone they come in contact with. Must I accept your choice to smoke while sitting in the seat next to me? Must I eat vegan simply because you choose to eat a vegan diet? Must I happily share half of my airplane seat with you because you weigh 400 pounds and did not book two adjacent seats? Must I be prohibited from eating peanuts because you have an allergy? Am I obligated to teach my children how to interact with your potentially dangerous dog? Or are you obligated to take reasonable steps to minimize the risk to the public, including my children, created by your potentially dangerous pet? While I agree that, from a personal safety stand point, teaching children about how to interact with strange animals is a good idea (the same way teaching kids not to handle guns they might find laying around is a good idea). I don't think that is an expectation that pet owners have the right to impose on others. Now, if a parent takes a kid to a dog show, I think it is reasonable for the parent to expect that the kid will probably come into contact with strange animals. And I would expect the parent to have taught the kid about how to interact with the animals and not expect animal owners and trainers to manage the interaction between their child and the animals being shown. It was the parent's choice to bring the child to the dog show and the parent should not expect to impose the obligation to teach their child about how stressed animals might react to the child on the dog owners and trainers. By the same token, I don't think that pet owners, in public spaces, with a potentially dangerous pet, during the time that children are usually about, should impose teaching their personal version of pet etiquette on all of the parents of all of the kids who might be around. I completely agree with you on the idea that others shouldn't have to make accommodations for everyone they come in contact with. If you've read any of my other posts, my thinking greatly parallels yours in this respect - from special diets to airplane seats.
I don't think what I'm describing is remotely asking others to make accommodations for a dog, though. Neighborhood sidewalks are shared public areas where it's reasonable to expect that children will encounter other people, pets, bicycles, etc. My job as a parent is to teach my children to interact appropriately with other people, pets, bicycles, etc on the sidewalk and that includes the common courtesy of not petting a dog that the owner has politely and specifically asked you not to pet. I've taught my children not to pet strange dogs without asking the owner just like good parents would teach a child how to appropriately and politely meet strangers, ask others to touch or use their property and other basic manners. That's not an imposition, that's parenting.
I'm not talking about a situation where my dog was ever free to roam the neighborhood or there were people even in my home that I asked to change behavior for the dog - it is my job as a dog owner to be responsible and remove the dog from those situations. But on a public sidewalk in a neighborhood where it is common and reasonable to encounter dogs, if I've already preemptively removed my dog from the sidewalk, made her sit and politely asked the child not to come over to pet her, that's not me asking you or your child to make an accommodation. That's me expecting you as a parent to parent your child and ensure your child interacts appropriately and does not approach the situation that s/he's already been warned about, isn't in his/her path and won't encounter unless s/he chooses to engage.
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raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 12, 2014 19:29:14 GMT -5
Most adults can't approach a dog appropriately. They are not able to able to teach their kids what they don't know that they are doing wrong. My dogs behavior is my responsibility. I stopped having the issue of people approaching us when I stopped making excuses like she's skittish, shy, etc. I straight up say/shout she bites and they keep their distance. Doesn't matter that none of my dogs have bitten anyone/dog yet. I'd like to keep it that way.
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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grumpyhermit
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Joined: Jul 12, 2012 12:04:00 GMT -5
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 12, 2014 19:36:00 GMT -5
So because someone can't teach their children how to behave in public places I should be expected to twist my routine all around? Not having the right to impose on others should go both ways - I'll control my dog by not letting it run wild, and you can contain your kids by not letting them do likewise.
Will accidents still happen? Sure. But if pet owners take some common sense precautions, and parents teach their kids some basic manners, it should help cut down. I don't think anyone is talking about teaching kids to pick up on the warning signs of an animal under stress, hell most adults don't have a clue. Just the basics of you don't touch things that don't belong to you, and you always ask before petting someones dog. Always. I have had young children ask - so it is possible to impart to them.
My dogs were fine with kids - never showed a hint of aggression. However, one was also very easily excitable and was prone to jumping. While I don't think he would ever intentionally hurt a kid, the potential was still there to do damage, either with knocking a small child down, or scratching them with his claws. So as long as the kids asked and I could put him into a sit, everything was fine. However if a kid just bolted up and started petting him he would have gone all happy, spastic, flailing. A dog doesn't have to be aggressive to hurt a kid, it can be quite unintentional. Abdicating the need for education because 'hey its your dog so not my problem' is really not a helpful attitude, even in a devils advocate situation.
Should people with aggressive, problem dogs take extra precautions? Absolutely. Just like parents of children without pets should still teach them basic manners around pets. Respect goes both ways. When did teaching children basic manners start being viewed as in imposition?
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 10, 2024 10:16:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 19:41:26 GMT -5
Well, for me and my dogs, the adults were worse than the kids. I would tell kids they couldn't pet my dog and they would usually listen and keep their distance. Adults would insist "oh he won't bite me" and would only stop when they got almost close enough to touch one of us and he'd growl. Unfortunately, my big poodle was somewhat of an "attractive nuisance".
When I took my dogs out, I was careful to stay out of other people's way. They had to go out of their way to purposefully get near us. When they would do that, and kept approaching even when I told them not to, who had bad manners at that point?
Regardless of who's right in the situation or who's wrong, I think parents should teach their children about approaching strange dogs simply because dogs are everywhere. Some are strays that don't have anyone teaching them how to behave. Adults and children need to understand that when someone with a dog on a leash tells them "no, you can't pet my dog" or "no, don't come any closer to us", it's probably in their best interest to listen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 19:43:06 GMT -5
Most adults can't approach a dog appropriately. They are not able to able to teach their kids what they don't know that they are doing wrong. My dogs behavior is my responsibility. I stopped having the issue of people approaching us when I stopped making excuses like she's skittish, shy, etc. I straight up say/shout she bites and they keep their distance. Doesn't matter that none of my dogs have bitten anyone/dog yet. I'd like to keep it that way. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards Even saying "he bites" didn't stop some of the stupid adults I encountered.
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grumpyhermit
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Joined: Jul 12, 2012 12:04:00 GMT -5
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 12, 2014 19:52:01 GMT -5
It would be so much easier if all aggressive dogs "looked the part." I know all about the "attractive nuisance", the dog that I had growing up that was a biter was a basset hound. People just love to pet and tug on those ears, unfortunately that was on of her "triggers." So yes, please believe me when I say DON'T touch her ears. I had another basset later on, who was sweet as pie. Of course most people would start petting her before even thinking to ask if it was okay, and yes, they were usually adults. Sigh. I only have cats now - which is so much easier. People expect them to be mean and spastic.
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