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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 19:43:36 GMT -5
Now that I've read the rest of the thread, I think that is a bad situation. Dog owners need to take responsibility for their dogs, even if they make every effort to keep them contained or whatever and something happens anyway. My bullmastiff scared the crap out of one of my neighbors. She didn't bite her, just ran to her and sniffed the grocery bags the lady had while the lady stood frozen in the street. But the lady was still understandably scared because my dog was so big. It was my kid outside with my dog, so it was my responsiblity to go talk to my neighbor, apologize and assure her it wouldn't happen again. And deal with my daughter, especially since she thought the whole thing was funny and the dog wouldn't have gone into the street in the first place if she'd just called her back.
With the other dog, I knew that even if he was on a leash, I had to keep people from getting in our space if I could. If we were on trails or sidewalks and someone was walking or jogging toward us, I'd step off the trail or sidewalk with him to give them plenty of room to pass us, just as a precaution. Those weren't the people that bothered him though, as long as they kept moving he didn't look twice at them.
One other thing I've gotten from the thread, I've always felt kind of bad for having my Chow euthanized after she bit my daughter even though I really didn't see any other option. I feel a bit better seeing that I'm not the only one that's ever made that decision with an aggressive dog.
Thyme, I don't know what to say about your neighbors other than I hope they come to their senses before anyone else gets hurt. I understand why you would be concerned about those dogs.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2014 23:40:09 GMT -5
Sad situation indeed. I have made a lifetime of loving pets - but, there are so many sweet dogs with no "record" that would be a better fit. I think this couple might be manumitted by their adult daughter. She couldn't handle the dog, so she gave it to them. If they put it down, they risk their daughter villinasing them. I guess the off-chance that they get out AND bite a human is worth the high probability of their daughter blaming them and being hurt. Boo. I'm not sure how this is going to play out. I will bookmark this thread and update when I hear something. I am not part of the lawsuit, and now that I have made my position crystal clear to the owner, I suspect they will be in low-profile mode for a while. I did tell my daughter what happened and that I don't want her anywhere near their house or their dog. I could see her heart break a little. Growing up is so hard.
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ginpin
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Post by ginpin on Aug 10, 2014 11:15:29 GMT -5
I owned an Akita. I had her since she was 12 weeks old. She became horribly dog aggressive after being attacked by another dog. She was great with our family, ok with other humans, but would try and kill any dog she saw. It wasn't such a problem when we lived in the country, but turned very difficult when we moved to a subdivision. I ended up putting her down when she broke a slat on the wooden fence to get to the neighbor's dog, which was bad, but their little boy was next to their dog. I couldn't live with myself if the child would have been injured, had my dog got through the fence. So I put her down the next weekend.
Owning an aggressive dog is a huge responsibility. Most people don't get it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 11:45:49 GMT -5
The neighbors and I were together last night and I brought up "the white dog". One neighbor said if any of his dogs ever bit anyone he'd personally shoot him. No second chances (and he loves his dogs...has 4). I agreed I would do the same (well, not personally shoot, but take to the vet). However, I forgot something! Years ago when I lived in town I had two Shelties, the one hated our one neighbor and I'm pretty sure the feeling was mutual. To this day I don't understand what the issue was with that one lady because he was great with everyone else and kids, but one day he did run up and nip her in the back of the leg. She called the police and he was quarantined even though he was up to date on his shots. I guess I'd never even considered putting him down, but I'd also never considered him an actual threat to anyone. I don't even think he broke the skin on this lady and he weighed all of 11 pounds. I swear at some point she must have kicked him or hit him or something because he'd just see her and go bonkers. He was not like this with anyone else, even crazy kids. He would play ball with kids all afternoon. He'd stand behind the batter in the catchers position and if the kid missed, he'd run it back to the pitcher and if the kid hit it he'd run out and field the ball and bring it back to the pitcher.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 10, 2014 12:06:32 GMT -5
My neighbors have an adorable Pitt Bull. He was left in a crate on the doorstep of their veterinary office. They brought him home, were unable to home him elsewhere, so kept him and worked with him themselves. He's a wonderful dog! He's allowed free run on their property and on mine, but he can't go on anyone else's property unless he's accompanied by one of them, or me. If he sees me out he always accompanies me in whatever I'm doing. If we're pulling weeds, he sometimes pulls flowers but we pretend they're weeds. One day, he came out the front door with the husband of the couple who owns him and saw me across the street talking to another neighbor. He ran to the curb and stopped cold. He can't go off the curb and he knows it, but I was there. You could almost see the wheels turning. "If I go over there I'll be accompanied when I get there." - tail wag - "Buuttt, if I go over there by myself I'm not being accompanied." - tail droop- He set up a howl that would have raised the dead in Mongolia! Brought other neighbors out of their houses to see what in the heck was going on. Half the neighborhood was out there comforting the poor, miserable, unloved, misunderstood pup! We get a lot of laughs and love from that dog. He really is a hoot!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2014 15:50:35 GMT -5
Owning an aggressive dog is a huge responsibility. Most people don't get it
Our lab is not a kid dog. She likes/tolerates OUR child/children but otherwise she doesn't really like children. She's not aggressive but she can get very nervous which could lead to a bad situation. We're always on top of it but I can't believe the number of adults who let their kid run up towards a dog they don't know. Then get pissed at me when I tell their children to stop, you cannot pet my dog she does not like children. Excuse me for being a responsible pet owner. I would think you'd WANT a dog owner to be responsible and not allow children to pet a dog they are aware may bite.
Nobody seems to teach their kids proper dog etiquette anymore.
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ginpin
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Post by ginpin on Aug 10, 2014 16:59:33 GMT -5
Agreed. I taught my kids to ALWAYS ask before petting someone's dog. I'm amazed at the adults that will just reach out, too. You know who's gonna be in trouble when your dog bites someone, and it won't be them.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 10, 2014 17:02:30 GMT -5
Nobody seems to teach their kids proper dog etiquette anymore. I'm wondering if that's because so few people know proper dog etiquette. When we had an adopted shelter dog that wasn't friendly (she never did bite anyone, but I suspected that she could easily be a fear biter, so kept her on a leash and away from strangers), people seemed very put out if I explained she wasn't friendly and it would be best not to pet her. She was adorable - big, brown mop of fur and gorgeous light brown eyes - so it was tempting to pet her, but she was scared of strangers and at 60 lbs, big enough that I didn't want to risk her hurting someone if she got scared enough to take a nip. Even if I was polite and nice in my explanation, it was surprising how many people ignored me and still tried to pet her or worse yet, let their small kids grab her. She never did bite any of those idiots, but definitely showed all the classic signs of a very stressed dog that is scared to death and considering whether she should try to run away or bite. So not only did the people who went to pet her not know basic dog etiquette, they didn't understand basic dog body language.
One of my friends raises puppies for a guide dog organization. So the puppies are "working" and in training. The dogs even wear vests that explain they're working and ask people not to pet them. Despite the neon vests and the polite requests of my friend, it's amazing how many people still come up and pet the guide dog in training or let their dog jump on the guide dog.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Aug 10, 2014 21:47:37 GMT -5
Oh oh- watch out- I'm gonna get on my soap box.
First, any dog can bite given the right circumstances. Unfortunately, you don't always know what that is until it's too late. Like Viola, I have a reactive dog and have run into the same situations with dogs off leash approaching mine. Pisses me off.
Your neighbors dog may or may not be aggressive, and they may or may not be telling the truth about getting bit by her own dog. But it doesn't matter, because they obviously weren't in control of their dog. With any dog, but especially one that is already had issues, or maybe labeled aggressive, you have to be in control 100% of the time. Anything else is irresponsible.
I hate labeling dogs as aggressive, because generally they are actually reactive or it's a fear response. But most people can't recognize the difference.
But regardless, these people are not doing enough to prevent something from happening. I would not let my kids go over there.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Aug 11, 2014 2:04:13 GMT -5
My black lab attempted to bite people twice and failed. First time my neighbor had come in my house and taken her to her house then make her stand and stay while a friend ran his hands over the dog. When he got to the back of the dog she attempted to snap at him but my neighbor slapped her chin so her mouth closed. The next time she was in a training class doing a long stand and stay again when someone tried to feel her and she tried to bite him, I didn't allow it. After that when I took her to dog shows and people asked if they could pet her I warned them, most petted her anyhow and she never tried to bite them.
My German Shepard was said to have bitten a little girl. She was on my deck throwing a ball down to the yard for the lab for an hour or two. Later I told her she could give them dog biscuits and she said she won't give them to the GS because she bites. I ask his she had bitten her and she said yes but when I asked if it hurt she said no. I think the dog had just taken her arm in her mouth to get attention because she was playing with the other dog.
My nephew had a big old mutt dog that wasn't socialized enough, she only liked him and his wife. She had a kennel and fenced yard but when he took her for walks he used a muzzle, she was scared of people. He took her to my mom's yard sale wearing a muzzle but someone decided she didn't need it so she bit his niece for coming near her.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 11, 2014 7:53:39 GMT -5
I hate labeling dogs as aggressive, because generally they are actually reactive or it's a fear response. But most people can't recognize the difference.
But regardless, these people are not doing enough to prevent something from happening. I would not let my kids go over there.
In working with a dog there is a reason to know the difference, but otherwise in my opinion it doesn't matter why a dog is more likely to bite in certain situations. It isn't the intent, its the effect that should be emphasized that too many people try to justify out of. I'm not saying you are doing this, and you definitely work with them differently but I think.most people under react to their dogs behavior causing more problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 11, 2014 8:10:04 GMT -5
But regardless, these people are not doing enough to prevent something from happening. I would not let my kids go over there.
The more I think about this, the more my anger switches to the failure of ownership. Something happened where their daughter couldn't keep the dog - so they knew the dog had problems. They took the dog in, and didn't get training. They took the dog to the beach and he caused damage to another dog, and they didn't get training. They said they did the responsible thing and paid the vet bill, but did nothing to prevent another attack. They took the dog to a dog park and he caused damage to another dog, and they didn't get training. They, again, were so "responsible" that they paid the bill. And now the dog has caused serious damage to another dog and a woman got pretty messed up too - but (according to them) that was collateral damage. He has told me that they will be responsible and pay via the lawsuit - but the neighborhood is in mob with torch and pitchfork mode, so they are now pretending like they are going to do something. I think it is pretty clear that they don't think this is a big problem, and don't know what to do to stop it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 8:16:51 GMT -5
But regardless, these people are not doing enough to prevent something from happening. I would not let my kids go over there.
The more I think about this, the more my anger switches to the failure of ownership. Something happened where their daughter couldn't keep the dog - so they knew the dog had problems. They took the dog in, and didn't get training. They took the dog to the beach and he caused damage to another dog, and they didn't get training. They said they did the responsible thing and paid the vet bill, but did nothing to prevent another attack. They took the dog to a dog park and he caused damage to another dog, and they didn't get training. They, again, were so "responsible" that they paid the bill. And now the dog has caused serious damage to another dog and a woman got pretty messed up too - but (according to them) that was collateral damage. He has told me that they will be responsible and pay via the lawsuit - but the neighborhood is in mob with torch and pitchfork mode, so they are now pretending like they are going to do something. I think it is pretty clear that they don't think this is a big problem, and don't know what to do to stop it. were any of these attacks reported to animal control? after the first one they would have been given requirements to follow (most likely muzzle while in public). after the second one the dog may have been put down or may have been given another chance if the owners got training. If none of the attacks were reported then the victims also share some blame.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 11, 2014 8:25:04 GMT -5
Owning an aggressive dog is a huge responsibility. Most people don't get it
Our lab is not a kid dog. She likes/tolerates OUR child/children but otherwise she doesn't really like children. She's not aggressive but she can get very nervous which could lead to a bad situation. We're always on top of it but I can't believe the number of adults who let their kid run up towards a dog they don't know. Then get pissed at me when I tell their children to stop, you cannot pet my dog she does not like children. Excuse me for being a responsible pet owner. I would think you'd WANT a dog owner to be responsible and not allow children to pet a dog they are aware may bite.
Nobody seems to teach their kids proper dog etiquette anymore. This is the problem we have. We have a German Spitz that was adopted from the animal shelter. He is a great dog around a few people, but gets very nervous around a crowd. He is so freaking adorable that kids just want to cuddle him, but he does not care for kids. So if I've got him out walking and see a kid come up, I have to have them approach slowly if they want to pet him. He is pretty good about that, but for the most part I try to avoid the situation altogether. Strange thing though, he is so patient with my kitten. The kitten will jump on his head and he's ok with this. Sheldon considers it his mission in life to bathe the dog......which is pretty funny o watch.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 11, 2014 8:27:50 GMT -5
Nobody seems to teach their kids proper dog etiquette anymore. Forks on the right, knives on the left and NO elbows on the table!!!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 11, 2014 8:39:41 GMT -5
I was attacked by a stray dog. It was foaming at the mouth (I say foaming, it could have just been a lot of slobber but it wasn't a big slobbering breed) and was skittish, jumping away and then darting back at me. Didn't have a collar on. I just assumed it had rabies and I wasn't really interested in finding out, if it didn't have rabies it definitely had something wrong with it, it wasn't just aggressive, it was weird and aggressive. It was super aggressive, snarling, snapping, etc. I was in the backyard, grabbed a 2x4 next to the garage and when it came in close I swung the board and killed it.
I've been bitten a couple of times. Lots of people seem to like to let their dogs run free in their yards and when we take our dog for a walk they come over and try to fight my leashed dog. All of those dogs had their shots, and no bites that were too bad really. It's easier now that we've had our dog for 5 years and know where not to walk. There were lots of little incidents the first few weeks we had a dog to the point I couldn't let my wife walk the dog alone because of all the random dogs starting fights.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Aug 11, 2014 9:27:04 GMT -5
I dont' like labelling dogs "aggressive" because most dogs do not go out of their way to cause damage or attack people. In the case of my dogs, they actually have been socialized to other dogs and people and even children since they were young, but they prefer only a few of their doggy friends and do not like other dogs especially when they are on leash. I try not to walk them altogether because when walked alone they are completely different - much calmer and easier to manage. They like SOME people but are fearful of people who suddenly move and pet them. I generally do not let people pet them because as soon as the excitement level goes up - somone is going to get nipped. They do not bite to cause damage, they actually have bite inhibition as in they do not break skin, but when they are excited they get nippy. Because they can be unpredictable, I closely monitor any interaction with strangers.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 11, 2014 9:55:24 GMT -5
Nobody seems to teach their kids proper dog etiquette anymore. I'm wondering if that's because so few people know proper dog etiquette. When we had an adopted shelter dog that wasn't friendly (she never did bite anyone, but I suspected that she could easily be a fear biter, so kept her on a leash and away from strangers), people seemed very put out if I explained she wasn't friendly and it would be best not to pet her. She was adorable - big, brown mop of fur and gorgeous light brown eyes - so it was tempting to pet her, but she was scared of strangers and at 60 lbs, big enough that I didn't want to risk her hurting someone if she got scared enough to take a nip. Even if I was polite and nice in my explanation, it was surprising how many people ignored me and still tried to pet her or worse yet, let their small kids grab her. She never did bite any of those idiots, but definitely showed all the classic signs of a very stressed dog that is scared to death and considering whether she should try to run away or bite. So not only did the people who went to pet her not know basic dog etiquette, they didn't understand basic dog body language.
One of my friends raises puppies for a guide dog organization. So the puppies are "working" and in training. The dogs even wear vests that explain they're working and ask people not to pet them. Despite the neon vests and the polite requests of my friend, it's amazing how many people still come up and pet the guide dog in training or let their dog jump on the guide dog.
I try to make sure my kids ask. But I find it difficult because I'm the one petting first and asking second. But I try because of the kids. And when we see dogs in vests, I point out that they're working dogs and you can ask the person if it's ok but because the dogs are actually doing their job and it's best not to distract them. As for the OP's question - I've been bit 3 times. Once by my best friend's dog. She was a German Shepherd mix and I was the 3rd bite, so they put her down. I still feel bad about her. I don't remember doing anything in particular but I ran in and out of that house like it was my own so I probably did SOMETHING. 2nd was a neighbor's dog - around the corner and up the block. I picked a bad day to visit him - the owner's grandkids had been over all day and he was just tired of kids. I missed his signals and got bit. I took off running for home and the owners called my parents. I admit, it was a while before I went to play with that dog again. 3rd was the neighbor behind us. Dalmatian was just mean. I had the paper route and was shortcutting home, I got too close and he got me (he was on a chain in the front yard.) And I made damn sure I stayed far away from him after that. None of the bites were severe - no scars or anything. And in all honesty - I was the obnoxious kids who knew and played with all the dogs in the neighborhood. Usually even the mean ones tolerated me. My last dog wasn't a good walker and I was afraid she'd go after other dogs. One of the last walks I took her on had us stopping while a perfectly nice little dog was in it's own yard. Owner was out too. I stopped just prior to their sidewalk and the owner said the dog was fine. I said something about not being sure of MY dog and they came and held the dog while we walked past. In retrospect, we'd have probably been fine but I didn't want to take the chance.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 11, 2014 10:33:29 GMT -5
Feb 2013, our younger dog, Anna, started being untrustworthy around DS. We never were real comfortable with her around DS with limited supervision (unlike our older dog Muttley), but she started snapping at DS. Some of it was slightly provoked by DS - but some of it was not provoked. DS is pretty sensitive, so when Muttley barks at him, DS starts crying. Anyway, with DH just having back surgery and a new baby in the house, we tried to rehome Anna to a house without little kids and got absolutely no hits. We surrendered her to the shelter - over the phone they told DH that yes, they would rehome her. But when he got to the shelter, they said no, she would be put to sleep. Given everything else in our personal lives at that time, DH left her and didn't tell me. He was quite upset about it when he told me several months later. I think it was best decision. We needed help at the time. We were overwhelmed with everything else in our lives and despite pleas for help with the dog, no one stepped up and offered to help us find a better home for her. We adopted Anna when she was 6 months old. She had always been extremely skittish - the first morning, DH had left her out in the kennel and I was suppose to bring her in the garage before i went to work and she would not let me get close enough to put the leash on to take her back to the garage. It was weird - not how she had acted during our meet and greet. i don't know if she had been abused when she was younger or not. She never outgrew it. We'd had her for 6 years and she was still very skittish. Now that DD is walking and her personality is full of mischief, I'm glad we don't have Anna any more. DD is a handful as it is outside. We don't need to add a 60 lb dog that is skittish around mischievous 18 month old.
DS is great around Muttley. Most of the time he leaves Mutt alone or they play fetch. Muttley is a great little kid dog. Muttley is a shortie - so he likes kids. DD is not the rule follower that DS is, so it is more how much we trust the kids vs how much we trust the dog. Muttley is 11 now. He's a good boy.
As for teaching the kid pet etiquette - camping was a great time, because so many people had dogs that they walked by. The kids would walk out to see the dog and either DH and I would tell DS to ask before petting the dog. Most people say something before the kids get close enough to pet the dog. We were at a park the first weekend of this month and DD ran after a dog that was playing. Once I caught up to her, we were still far enough away that the owners were able to see us coming and say yes, it is ok to pet the dog, but the dog is still a a puppy (and was wet). And the owner got there with the dog and I squatted down with DD while she petted the dog.
Finally, as for the OP's situation. That would make me very uncomfortable. I would want that dog gone.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 11:05:17 GMT -5
Feb 2013, our younger dog, Anna, started being untrustworthy around DS. We never were real comfortable with her around DS with limited supervision (unlike our older dog Muttley), but she started snapping at DS. Some of it was slightly provoked by DS - but some of it was not provoked. DS is pretty sensitive, so when Muttley barks at him, DS starts crying. Anyway, with DH just having back surgery and a new baby in the house, we tried to rehome Anna to a house without little kids and got absolutely no hits. We surrendered her to the shelter - over the phone they told DH that yes, they would rehome her. But when he got to the shelter, they said no, she would be put to sleep. Given everything else in our personal lives at that time, DH left her and didn't tell me. He was quite upset about it when he told me several months later. I think it was best decision. We needed help at the time. We were overwhelmed with everything else in our lives and despite pleas for help with the dog, no one stepped up and offered to help us find a better home for her. We adopted Anna when she was 6 months old. She had always been extremely skittish - the first morning, DH had left her out in the kennel and I was suppose to bring her in the garage before i went to work and she would not let me get close enough to put the leash on to take her back to the garage. It was weird - not how she had acted during our meet and greet. i don't know if she had been abused when she was younger or not. She never outgrew it. We'd had her for 6 years and she was still very skittish. Now that DD is walking and her personality is full of mischief, I'm glad we don't have Anna any more. DD is a handful as it is outside. We don't need to add a 60 lb dog that is skittish around mischievous 18 month old. DS is great around Muttley. Most of the time he leaves Mutt alone or they play fetch. Muttley is a great little kid dog. Muttley is a shortie - so he likes kids. DD is not the rule follower that DS is, so it is more how much we trust the kids vs how much we trust the dog. Muttley is 11 now. He's a good boy. As for teaching the kid pet etiquette - camping was a great time, because so many people had dogs that they walked by. The kids would walk out to see the dog and either DH and I would tell DS to ask before petting the dog. Most people say something before the kids get close enough to pet the dog. We were at a park the first weekend of this month and DD ran after a dog that was playing. Once I caught up to her, we were still far enough away that the owners were able to see us coming and say yes, it is ok to pet the dog, but the dog is still a a puppy (and was wet). And the owner got there with the dog and I squatted down with DD while she petted the dog. Finally, as for the OP's situation. That would make me very uncomfortable. I would want that dog gone. so when your DH knew she was going to be put down, why didn't he at least take her to a vet and have it done while she was around someone who loved her instead of leaving her in a cold shelter where nobody gave a damn? I can't imagine dropping a family member off a shelter to be euthanized, scared and alone.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Aug 11, 2014 11:09:34 GMT -5
I hate labeling dogs as aggressive, because generally they are actually reactive or it's a fear response. But most people can't recognize the difference.
But regardless, these people are not doing enough to prevent something from happening. I would not let my kids go over there.
In working with a dog there is a reason to know the difference, but otherwise in my opinion it doesn't matter why a dog is more likely to bite in certain situations. It isn't the intent, its the effect that should be emphasized that too many people try to justify out of. I'm not saying you are doing this, and you definitely work with them differently but I think.most people under react to their dogs behavior causing more problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards The difference is the owners need to handle the situation differently depending on what the dogs issue is. It's separate training issues. Also, there are a lot of people (my sister for example) that will label a dog as aggressive, for normal dog behavior. She wouldn't let her pup play tug of war, because it "taught" aggressiveness. In other words, there are a lot of stupid people out there. You have to assume everyone one else is a irresponsible, dumb ass owner until they prove otherwise. Which is sad. You also have to assume that the worst will happen and act accordingly. My job is to protect my dog, and protect anyone around my dog from my dog. As I said, I have a reactive dog. We had an issue just the other day in agility class. My dog didn't react, because I did my job. We (my trainer nearly came unglued) had to explain to the woman why what she did was wrong. She's been in class with my for a year. She said " I never knew your dog had an issue." My response " If I'm doing my job, you won't".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 11:35:05 GMT -5
In grad school, I was walking from my department building (couple blocks off campus) to class when I was attacked by two dogs. The smaller of the two (think chihuahua mix was the first one and attacked my shoe). While he had me distracted, his lab-mix buddy came around behind me and bit me on the back of my thigh. No owner in sight. Dogs later could not be found (there are lots of apartments in that area; we think someone just let their dogs out and didn't monitor them) so I had to go through rabies vaccination.
Dogs can have such different temperments. My aunt and uncle own an apple orchard. They had two dogs that lived in the orchard year round to keep the deer and other varmits out. Gobi was a lab/husky mix who never met anyone he didn't like. During pick your own season, he would lay across the aisle from where the wagons loaded so people would pet him. He did tend to scare the kids because he would bark in protest if they stopped petting him. I just explained that was his way of asking for more loveys. The other dog is Tiger. She looks like an Aussie (but orange with black brindle stripes). She likes her people, and tries to avoid everyone else. If the kids ran to her, she would hide behind me (cause she knew I would stop them and redirect them to Gobi). Her first instinct was to avoid. If she couldn't get away, she would give a warning bark and one of us would come running (she rarely barked, so we knew if we heard her, something was wrong). I could let the kids interact with her some by having them throw her ball. They threw the ball, she would bring it back to me, and I would hand it off to the kid again. If anyone was really worried about the dogs, we would tie them up.
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muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 11, 2014 11:51:51 GMT -5
Feb 2013, our younger dog, Anna, started being untrustworthy around DS. We never were real comfortable with her around DS with limited supervision (unlike our older dog Muttley), but she started snapping at DS. Some of it was slightly provoked by DS - but some of it was not provoked. DS is pretty sensitive, so when Muttley barks at him, DS starts crying. Anyway, with DH just having back surgery and a new baby in the house, we tried to rehome Anna to a house without little kids and got absolutely no hits. We surrendered her to the shelter - over the phone they told DH that yes, they would rehome her. But when he got to the shelter, they said no, she would be put to sleep. Given everything else in our personal lives at that time, DH left her and didn't tell me. He was quite upset about it when he told me several months later. I think it was best decision. We needed help at the time. We were overwhelmed with everything else in our lives and despite pleas for help with the dog, no one stepped up and offered to help us find a better home for her. We adopted Anna when she was 6 months old. She had always been extremely skittish - the first morning, DH had left her out in the kennel and I was suppose to bring her in the garage before i went to work and she would not let me get close enough to put the leash on to take her back to the garage. It was weird - not how she had acted during our meet and greet. i don't know if she had been abused when she was younger or not. She never outgrew it. We'd had her for 6 years and she was still very skittish. Now that DD is walking and her personality is full of mischief, I'm glad we don't have Anna any more. DD is a handful as it is outside. We don't need to add a 60 lb dog that is skittish around mischievous 18 month old. DS is great around Muttley. Most of the time he leaves Mutt alone or they play fetch. Muttley is a great little kid dog. Muttley is a shortie - so he likes kids. DD is not the rule follower that DS is, so it is more how much we trust the kids vs how much we trust the dog. Muttley is 11 now. He's a good boy. As for teaching the kid pet etiquette - camping was a great time, because so many people had dogs that they walked by. The kids would walk out to see the dog and either DH and I would tell DS to ask before petting the dog. Most people say something before the kids get close enough to pet the dog. We were at a park the first weekend of this month and DD ran after a dog that was playing. Once I caught up to her, we were still far enough away that the owners were able to see us coming and say yes, it is ok to pet the dog, but the dog is still a a puppy (and was wet). And the owner got there with the dog and I squatted down with DD while she petted the dog. Finally, as for the OP's situation. That would make me very uncomfortable. I would want that dog gone. so when your DH knew she was going to be put down, why didn't he at least take her to a vet and have it done while she was around someone who loved her instead of leaving her in a cold shelter where nobody gave a damn? I can't imagine dropping a family member off a shelter to be euthanized, scared and alone. It is shit comments like this one that are absolutely no help when we were in the situation we were in. You even made a comment that day that DH was taking her to the shelter, but you made the comment AFTER he had dropped her off. It does not help the situation. Everyone wants to make judgements after the fact, but where the fuck were you when we needed help. Nope nowhere to be found. We had to take care of the dog that week. There was no waiting it out. Our help was leaving. DH was on 15 hydrocodones a day and had to take care of a 2 month old and a 3 year old on his own. There was no room in our lives to figure out how to keep DS and the dog separated. Why do you think making a comment after the fact is helpful? The answer is no it did not cross his mind. He didn't want to make me feel bad so I didn't find out about it until MONTHS later. What do you want us to do about it now? From my understanding, DH had handed off Anna to the shelter and mentioned the issue to the shelter and they said oh, sorry we put those dogs down. But I wasn't there. Go ahead, judge away. But next time you see a post on facebook begging for help rehoming a dog from a family that has a new baby and husband that just had major surgery, offer to help that family, don't just judge them for not being able to do deal with their situation.
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raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 11, 2014 12:00:09 GMT -5
In working with a dog there is a reason to know the difference, but otherwise in my opinion it doesn't matter why a dog is more likely to bite in certain situations. It isn't the intent, its the effect that should be emphasized that too many people try to justify out of. I'm not saying you are doing this, and you definitely work with them differently but I think.most people under react to their dogs behavior causing more problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards The difference is the owners need to handle the situation differently depending on what the dogs issue is. It's separate training issues. Also, there are a lot of people (my sister for example) that will label a dog as aggressive, for normal dog behavior. She wouldn't let her pup play tug of war, because it "taught" aggressiveness. In other words, there are a lot of stupid people out there. You have to assume everyone one else is a irresponsible, dumb ass owner until they prove otherwise. Which is sad. You also have to assume that the worst will happen and act accordingly. My job is to protect my dog, and protect anyone around my dog from my dog. As I said, I have a reactive dog. We had an issue just the other day in agility class. My dog didn't react, because I did my job. We (my trainer nearly came unglued) had to explain to the woman why what she did was wrong. She's been in class with my for a year. She said " I never knew your dog had an issue." My response " If I'm doing my job, you won't". When it comes to dogs, my life is so much easier because this is how I live my life. Biting is natural behavior for dogs. Many natural behaviors in a well run pack are still not acceptable for dogs who live in our lives. Any dog can bite at any time. Even the best owner can have an off day, and if that day falls on the day when something happens, then bad things happen. If I actually thought that most people were capable/willing of working with their dogs I would feel differently, but I've given up.
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raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 11, 2014 12:04:18 GMT -5
Feb 2013, our younger dog, Anna, started being untrustworthy around DS. We never were real comfortable with her around DS with limited supervision (unlike our older dog Muttley), but she started snapping at DS. Some of it was slightly provoked by DS - but some of it was not provoked. DS is pretty sensitive, so when Muttley barks at him, DS starts crying. Anyway, with DH just having back surgery and a new baby in the house, we tried to rehome Anna to a house without little kids and got absolutely no hits. We surrendered her to the shelter - over the phone they told DH that yes, they would rehome her. But when he got to the shelter, they said no, she would be put to sleep. Given everything else in our personal lives at that time, DH left her and didn't tell me. He was quite upset about it when he told me several months later. I think it was best decision. We needed help at the time. We were overwhelmed with everything else in our lives and despite pleas for help with the dog, no one stepped up and offered to help us find a better home for her. We adopted Anna when she was 6 months old. She had always been extremely skittish - the first morning, DH had left her out in the kennel and I was suppose to bring her in the garage before i went to work and she would not let me get close enough to put the leash on to take her back to the garage. It was weird - not how she had acted during our meet and greet. i don't know if she had been abused when she was younger or not. She never outgrew it. We'd had her for 6 years and she was still very skittish. Now that DD is walking and her personality is full of mischief, I'm glad we don't have Anna any more. DD is a handful as it is outside. We don't need to add a 60 lb dog that is skittish around mischievous 18 month old. DS is great around Muttley. Most of the time he leaves Mutt alone or they play fetch. Muttley is a great little kid dog. Muttley is a shortie - so he likes kids. DD is not the rule follower that DS is, so it is more how much we trust the kids vs how much we trust the dog. Muttley is 11 now. He's a good boy. As for teaching the kid pet etiquette - camping was a great time, because so many people had dogs that they walked by. The kids would walk out to see the dog and either DH and I would tell DS to ask before petting the dog. Most people say something before the kids get close enough to pet the dog. We were at a park the first weekend of this month and DD ran after a dog that was playing. Once I caught up to her, we were still far enough away that the owners were able to see us coming and say yes, it is ok to pet the dog, but the dog is still a a puppy (and was wet). And the owner got there with the dog and I squatted down with DD while she petted the dog. Finally, as for the OP's situation. That would make me very uncomfortable. I would want that dog gone. so when your DH knew she was going to be put down, why didn't he at least take her to a vet and have it done while she was around someone who loved her instead of leaving her in a cold shelter where nobody gave a damn? I can't imagine dropping a family member off a shelter to be euthanized, scared and alone. Shelter workers give a damn. They work at a shelter because they love animals and they hate people. A decade later and my dh still has nightmares about his work at the shelter, but I promise you every single one of those people loved animals. Comments like this really doesn't do anything but make you feel better about yourself, and Mutt or anyone who has relinquished an animal feel bad and get defensive. Very, very few people go into adopting an animal with the expectation that they could give them up but it happens. I don't see any reason to make people feel worse about a shitty situation.
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ArchietheDragon
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Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 11, 2014 12:06:16 GMT -5
so when your DH knew she was going to be put down, why didn't he at least take her to a vet and have it done while she was around someone who loved her instead of leaving her in a cold shelter where nobody gave a damn? I can't imagine dropping a family member off a shelter to be euthanized, scared and alone. Shelter workers give a damn. They work at a shelter because they love animals and they hate people. A decade later and my dh still has nightmares about his work at the shelter, but I promise you every single one of those people loved animals. Comments like this really doesn't do anything but make you feel better about yourself, and Mutt or anyone who has relinquished an animal feel bad and get defensive. Very, very few people go into adopting an animal with the expectation that they could give them up but it happens. I don't see any reason to make people feel worse about a shitty situation. Except for these guys. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2590918/Animal-shelter-workers-killed-dogs-without-sedatives-leading-extreme-pain-died.html
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hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 11, 2014 12:10:24 GMT -5
::I can't imagine dropping a family member off a shelter to be euthanized, scared and alone.::
I can't imaging feeding a family member dog food, or making them sleep on the floor, or not sending them to school when they are of the appropriate age, or putting a collar on them, or making it so they can't reproduce, or killing them for biting someone, or letting them go outside with their genitals exposed, or force them to excrete outdoors....
Lots of things sound ridiculous when you start referring to animals as "family members" and then comparing those "family members" to actual human beings.
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raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 11, 2014 12:12:21 GMT -5
Shelter workers give a damn. They work at a shelter because they love animals and they hate people. A decade later and my dh still has nightmares about his work at the shelter, but I promise you every single one of those people loved animals. Comments like this really doesn't do anything but make you feel better about yourself, and Mutt or anyone who has relinquished an animal feel bad and get defensive. Very, very few people go into adopting an animal with the expectation that they could give them up but it happens. I don't see any reason to make people feel worse about a shitty situation. Except for these guys. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2590918/Animal-shelter-workers-killed-dogs-without-sedatives-leading-extreme-pain-died.htmlThat's quite helpful. (and obviously tragic). *Most* shelter workers give a damn, and every single one of them I met did. Most of them could have done a lot more good for their cause if they knocked the chip off their shoulders about how much people suck.
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Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 11, 2014 12:13:42 GMT -5
YOu're not helping ARchie.
*-*-*-*
Rehoming is hard.
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Abby Normal
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 12:31:49 GMT -5
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Post by Abby Normal on Aug 11, 2014 12:17:15 GMT -5
Feb 2013, our younger dog, Anna, started being untrustworthy around DS. We never were real comfortable with her around DS with limited supervision (unlike our older dog Muttley), but she started snapping at DS. Some of it was slightly provoked by DS - but some of it was not provoked. DS is pretty sensitive, so when Muttley barks at him, DS starts crying. Anyway, with DH just having back surgery and a new baby in the house, we tried to rehome Anna to a house without little kids and got absolutely no hits. We surrendered her to the shelter - over the phone they told DH that yes, they would rehome her. But when he got to the shelter, they said no, she would be put to sleep. Given everything else in our personal lives at that time, DH left her and didn't tell me. He was quite upset about it when he told me several months later. I think it was best decision. We needed help at the time. We were overwhelmed with everything else in our lives and despite pleas for help with the dog, no one stepped up and offered to help us find a better home for her. We adopted Anna when she was 6 months old. She had always been extremely skittish - the first morning, DH had left her out in the kennel and I was suppose to bring her in the garage before i went to work and she would not let me get close enough to put the leash on to take her back to the garage. It was weird - not how she had acted during our meet and greet. i don't know if she had been abused when she was younger or not. She never outgrew it. We'd had her for 6 years and she was still very skittish. Now that DD is walking and her personality is full of mischief, I'm glad we don't have Anna any more. DD is a handful as it is outside. We don't need to add a 60 lb dog that is skittish around mischievous 18 month old. Our previous dog was a rescue and very much the same. We had to do all sorts of creative training with her. When we had DS I worked my butt off to make sure that they were ok. It took a lot of time and effort. I told DH we had to be sure they were safe because one instance and we would have to put her down. She passed away when DS was 11. They never did have an issue and she was fine with him once he was about 5, but we were always careful when other kids were around. While I don't support putting the dog down in this situation, I do appreciate that you realized you were in over your heads and tried to find a solution before it became a problem. It's unfortunate that you had to go that route. But in the end, it is a dog, even though some are like members of the family, and it's better to have your child safe. Most people don't recognize there is an issue until after they have had a problem.
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