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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 12:16:35 GMT -5
My birth plan was to get that baby out using whatever means necessary and as painlessly as possible.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 5, 2014 12:18:23 GMT -5
I freaked a lot of random people out when they'd ask me what my birth plan was and I responded "F if I know".
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 5, 2014 12:18:53 GMT -5
So - part of the reason this debate is so corrosive is because in one sentence you managed to imply three things, that A) breastfeeding is best so people who formula feed are not doing the not best thing for their child, B) that parents who formula feed don't do their research and therefore don't care about their kids, and C) that your couples who are united in best parenting practices breastfeed. The health benefits of breastfeeding, if you can do it, are pretty slight. There are plenty of reasons that people can't, don't want to discuss it, and shouldn't feel bad for not breastfeeding. For one, if you just don't want to do it, that's a plenty valid reason. Another that many people don't consider is the growing number of women who have children after having cancer and can't breastfeed. See, what I got from her statement was that she did the best thing for HER kids, she researched her options beforehand, and her partner was on-board. Not that she was implying anything against those who made different choices.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Aug 5, 2014 12:19:57 GMT -5
So - part of the reason this debate is so corrosive is because in one sentence you managed to imply three things, that A) breastfeeding is best so people who formula feed are not doing the not best thing for their child, B) that parents who formula feed don't do their research and therefore don't care about their kids, and C) that your couples who are united in best parenting practices breastfeed. The health benefits of breastfeeding, if you can do it, are pretty slight. There are plenty of reasons that people can't, don't want to discuss it, and shouldn't feel bad for not breastfeeding. For one, if you just don't want to do it, that's a plenty valid reason. Another that many people don't consider is the growing number of women who have children after having cancer and can't breastfeed. That's an awful lot you got out of that. I can accept you saying that there is an implied judgement in saying that it was the "best thing" but someone can easily do the research and come to another conclusion. Just like in your research, you seem to have come to a conclusion that it has minimum benefits and breastfeeding may even be harmful because there are lots of toxins from the environment in it. And I don't even get the part about my husband! I needed him to be onboard, because you need support to do that kind of thing. And he's my co-pilot (parent)! Is that suppose to imply that I'm dissing all people who are divorced or separated?
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 5, 2014 12:23:36 GMT -5
So - part of the reason this debate is so corrosive is because in one sentence you managed to imply three things, that A) breastfeeding is best so people who formula feed are not doing the not best thing for their child, B) that parents who formula feed don't do their research and therefore don't care about their kids, and C) that your couples who are united in best parenting practices breastfeed. The health benefits of breastfeeding, if you can do it, are pretty slight. There are plenty of reasons that people can't, don't want to discuss it, and shouldn't feel bad for not breastfeeding. For one, if you just don't want to do it, that's a plenty valid reason. Another that many people don't consider is the growing number of women who have children after having cancer and can't breastfeed. That's an awful lot you got out of that. I can accept you saying that there is an implied judgement in saying that it was the "best thing" but someone can easily do the research and come to another conclusion. Just like in your research, you seem to have come to a conclusion that it has minimum benefits and breastfeeding may even be harmful because there are lots of toxins from the environment in it. And I don't even get the part about my husband! I needed him to be onboard, because you need support to do that kind of thing. And he's my co-pilot (parent)! Is that suppose to imply that I'm dissing all people who are divorced or separated?when will you learn? Anything you can say to another woman about her child, parenting, diet, or physical activity level will be taken the wrong way!
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 5, 2014 12:27:06 GMT -5
That's an awful lot you got out of that. I can accept you saying that there is an implied judgement in saying that it was the "best thing" but someone can easily do the research and come to another conclusion. Just like in your research, you seem to have come to a conclusion that it has minimum benefits and breastfeeding may even be harmful because there are lots of toxins from the environment in it. And I don't even get the part about my husband! I needed him to be onboard, because you need support to do that kind of thing. And he's my co-pilot (parent)! Is that suppose to imply that I'm dissing all people who are divorced or separated?when will you learn? Anything you can say to another woman about her child, parenting, diet, or physical activity level will be taken the wrong way! Fixed
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 5, 2014 12:28:58 GMT -5
I freaked a lot of random people out when they'd ask me what my birth plan was and I responded "F if I know". Had a birth plan and wondered why my DS wasn't reading it. I cringe at myself as a FTM. I also cringe at myself as I look how I parent my third.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 5, 2014 12:31:27 GMT -5
Shoot, I was secretly overjoyed to see a blue box of Kraft Mac & Cheese in the recycle bin at my "crunchy" friend's house the other day Dammit, and now the hungry preggo wants Kraft Mac & Cheese. LOL!!
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Aug 5, 2014 12:31:51 GMT -5
My birth plan was to get that baby out using whatever means necessary and as painlessly as possible. Me too.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 5, 2014 12:32:42 GMT -5
Do people who FF feel the need to get defensive about it sometimes, because of the BFing nazis out there? I think my best friend is kind of defensive about FFing her baby, even though to my knowledge she doesn't have people in her life criticizing her for it. I definitely think this is likely. I also see that the people most upset about "being judged" are the ones who judge others all day long, for all kinds of things. They know others are judging them because they spend so much time judging everyone else. (This is in general and not specific to breastfeeding or this forum). Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 5, 2014 12:35:52 GMT -5
But in the general discussion forum situation, are we suppose to have a list of things that might potentially distress people and never talk about it? That's not practical. This forum wouldn't exist.
Recall my comment that you can't expect everyone to cater to your feelings on every sensitive subject you have. People aren't mind readers. That's unreasonable. My example was that I don't bite people's heads off (or even get annoyed/pissed) when they ask me when/if I'm having another baby. They can't know that's a touchy subject for me unless I tell them so, and it's otherwise a fairly normal question.
I'm only advocating for a reasonable amount of caution about a subject that it's reasonable to assume might be distressing toward a large number of people. IME/O, breastfeeding versus bottle feeding is one of those subjects and therefore *I* choose to exercise caution around it.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Aug 5, 2014 12:49:36 GMT -5
But in the general discussion forum situation, are we suppose to have a list of things that might potentially distress people and never talk about it? That's not practical. This forum wouldn't exist.
Recall my comment that you can't expect everyone to cater to your feelings on every sensitive subject you have. People aren't mind readers. That's unreasonable. My example was that I don't bite people's heads off (or even get annoyed/pissed) when they ask me when/if I'm having another baby. They can't know that's a touchy subject for me unless I tell them so, and it's otherwise a fairly normal question. I'm only advocating for a reasonable amount of caution about a subject that it's reasonable to assume can be distressing toward a large number of people. IME/O, breastfeeding versus bottle feeding is one of those subjects and therefore *I* choose to exercise caution around it. I know. I was just adding on to what you said. Off to my doctor's appointment!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 5, 2014 12:53:36 GMT -5
More thoughts: Sunnyday, to me your miscarriage example is another time where there is a misplaced expectation that people cater to their feelings. I would find it strange (and unhealthy) if a woman was discouraged from celebrating her healthy pregnancy because someone in her peer group had recently suffered a miscarriage. Look at the WIR pregnancy thread - a bunch of folks there have been through miscarriages. The board gives them tons of support but no one makes the happily pregnant moms feel like shit for being happy about their live pregnancies. Another example: My husband and his sister lost their mom a few years ago in a horrible and tragic way. My mom is still an active part of our lives. I feel completely free to remark upon (whether they're around or not) how great she is and how lucky we are to have her around as much as we do. I don't feel that's being insensitive to their loss - maybe if it happened a couple months ago, but not several years down the road.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 5, 2014 12:59:32 GMT -5
My birth plan was to get that baby out using whatever means necessary and as painlessly as possible. That was my plan too!!
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 5, 2014 13:01:31 GMT -5
My birth plan was to get that baby out using whatever means necessary and as painlessly as possible. According to my friend's mom (very conservative religious person), epidurals are sinful. Because part of the curse for women was that there would be pain in childbirth, and trying to avoid that was seen as circumventing God's plan to keep punishing people for existing. Made me laugh...and get an epi.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 5, 2014 13:02:43 GMT -5
But it feels like there is so much pressure to give birth the "right" way and if you have a rough go of it that means something is "wrong" with you.
I got stuck in this one too, I'm ashamed to admit. Oh sure, I SAID my birth plan was "go to hospital / come home with baby / rest is details" but in reality, I had a vision of how it would go and it was a huge crash when it all went to hell. I think that reading about my acquaintance's multiple magical birth experiences warped my brain
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 5, 2014 13:03:36 GMT -5
My birth plan was to get that baby out using whatever means necessary and as painlessly as possible. According to my friend's mom (very conservative religious person), epidurals are sinful. Because part of the curse for women was that there would be pain in childbirth, and trying to avoid that was seen as circumventing God's plan to keep punishing people for existing. Made me laugh...and get an epi. I like your mom better She always posts nice and supportive things on your Facebook.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 5, 2014 13:04:49 GMT -5
It's because she's finally medicated We all like her a lot better now!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 5, 2014 13:05:20 GMT -5
Because part of the curse for women was that there would be pain in childbirth, and trying to avoid that was seen as circumventing God's plan to keep punishing people for existing. My response that would be "Why do I want to follow what an asshole tells me to do?" Then watch her head explode.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Aug 5, 2014 13:06:09 GMT -5
My DH's best friend's wife made me feel like shit for being pregnant and having the nerve to announce it to our friends and family at 20 weeks. She posted a meme on Facebook about "thanks for posting a picture of your ultrasound, I really needed to see what the inside of your vagina looked like." She had suffered a miscarriage and was going through fertility treatments. You think she would have known an ultrasound was a picture of the inside of my uterus, not the inside of my vagina. I deleted her and we don't speak now, even though we have all vacationed together and hung out in the past. I don't care if people breastfeed or formula feed. I don't care if they had epidurals or c-sections or anything. I do care when my DH told me the girl giving birth in the next room was answering 'yes' to questions about whether she had been around/done marijuana and heroin while pregnant. That's a helpless baby and should have had a decent chance before being born.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 5, 2014 13:06:19 GMT -5
My birth plan was to get that baby out using whatever means necessary and as painlessly as possible. According to my friend's mom (very conservative religious person), epidurals are sinful. Because part of the curse for women was that there would be pain in childbirth, and trying to avoid that was seen as circumventing God's plan to keep punishing people for existing. Made me laugh...and get an epi. It would have been ok to smack this person.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 5, 2014 13:07:18 GMT -5
Because part of the curse for women was that there would be pain in childbirth, and trying to avoid that was seen as circumventing God's plan to keep punishing people for existing. My response that would be "Why do I want to follow what an asshole tells me to do?" Then watch her head explode. Or, I don't listen to my imaginary friends. That'll freak her out.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 5, 2014 13:12:36 GMT -5
It would have been ok to smack this person.
Please, that's nothing. A friend of mine was counseled by her clergy person to stay with her husband who beat the living hell out of her because "God hates divorce." Black eye plain on her face during this particular discussion.
Had I known her at the time, I would've had a hard time deciding which relationship was more abusive!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 5, 2014 13:12:47 GMT -5
I'm an EP-er because DD hates boobs, so I get all the annoyance of lugging around a pump everywhere plus the judgmental "you're feeding your kid a bottle?" looks from strangers, or comments about how I'm not "really" breastfeeding (including one from the nurse at my OB's office). I love it. And yes, breastfeeding Nazis exist. I can send you some screenshots of my Facebook feed if you don't believe me.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 5, 2014 13:13:58 GMT -5
EP-er
I'm dumb. Someone want to spell this one out for me?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 5, 2014 13:14:35 GMT -5
Exclusively pumping
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 5, 2014 13:14:58 GMT -5
And yes, breastfeeding Nazis exist. I can send you some screenshots of my Facebook feed if you don't believe me.
Yes please!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 5, 2014 13:15:01 GMT -5
thanks for posting a picture of your ultrasound, I really needed to see what the inside of your vagina looked like."
I would have posted the most graphic picture I could find on the net and would have been banned from Facebook for life.
It'd be worth it to see the reaction.
get all the annoyance of lugging around a pump everywhere plus the judgmental "you're feeding your kid a bottle?" looks from strangers, or comments about how I'm not "really" breastfeeding (including one from the nurse at my OB's office)
Please tell me you proceed to beat said people with your pump. Those things are heavy you could do some well deserved damage!
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Aug 5, 2014 13:22:10 GMT -5
My first birth was an emergency C-section and second completely natural (not through choice ). Both were equally horrible in different ways! I thought it was weird after my first child when people either asked or implied that I had missed out on the "true birth experience". I came home from the hospital with a healthy baby - that was my only goal. The only thing women who give birth by C-section miss out on is sore lady parts!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 5, 2014 13:24:07 GMT -5
My first birth was an emergency C-section and second completely natural (not through choice ). Both were equally horrible in different ways! I thought it was weird after my first child when people either asked or implied that I had missed out on the "true birth experience". I came home from the hospital with a healthy baby - that was my only goal. The only thing women who give birth by C-section miss out on is sore lady parts! I.had 2 emergency c sections and several comments about missing out on a real birth experience. WTF?
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