hurley1980
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I am all that is wrong with the world....don't get too close, I'm contagious.
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 25, 2014 15:46:27 GMT -5
This thread is making my Friday afternoon much more fun! I am so bored right now. And andreawick....you are friggin hilarious!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 16:00:45 GMT -5
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me.
This is essentially what the guy said in response. I'm really puzzled as to where he (or you) thinks I (or anyone else) said anything about how you "can't" say you're proud to be straight.
You can say whatever you want to say. I just dispute the part where he apparently thinks that saying you're proud to be straight is equivalent to the statement that you're proud to be gay. Because again, the way society treats gays means that they are NOT equal statements. One fits right into what society already believes you should take pride in, and one doesn't. So one, yes, is more radical than the other.
But no one is trying to "suppress" anyone from saying anything.
I agree that sexuality, not being a choice, "shouldn't" really be a source of pride for anyone. I really liked the distinction made upthread between being proud of something and NOT being ashamed of it.
I think when most people say they're proud to be gay, the message they're trying to send is, "I'm not ashamed of my sexuality." When a person says that they're proud to be straight, the implied message is really different - because society doesn't give them any reason to be ashamed of their sexuality in the first place.
None of this means you can't say whatever the hell you feel like saying.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 16:02:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the lively discussion, everyone. I wasn't expecting this to turn into such an interesting (and funny) thread!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 16:03:54 GMT -5
Formerly SK, I wish we could still give karma. Your DC (dear child) is really lucky to have a family like yours.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2014 16:32:33 GMT -5
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me.This is essentially what the guy said in response. I'm really puzzled as to where he (or you) thinks I (or anyone else) said anything about how you "can't" say you're proud to be straight. You can say whatever you want to say. I just dispute the part where he apparently thinks that saying you're proud to be straight is equivalent to the statement that you're proud to be gay. Because again, the way society treats gays means that they are NOT equal statements. One fits right into what society already believes you should take pride in, and one doesn't. So one, yes, is more radical than the other. But no one is trying to "suppress" anyone from saying anything. I agree that sexuality, not being a choice, "shouldn't" really be a source of pride for anyone. I really liked the distinction made upthread between being proud of something and NOT being ashamed of it. I think when most people say they're proud to be gay, the message they're trying to send is, "I'm not ashamed of my sexuality." When a person says that they're proud to be straight, the implied message is really different - because society doesn't give them any reason to be ashamed of their sexuality in the first place. None of this means you can't say whatever the hell you feel like saying. And that is your opinion. I disagree and side with the guy you were arguing with. We can't be proud of something that we have no control over. I am no more ashamed of being straight than a gay person is of being gay...therefore, to me it is equivalent. I just wouldn't waste my time arguing with random people on facebook about it. Unless they annoyed me. Then I would make ridiculous arguments just to annoy them. I've done that and I laugh at how riled up I can make some people...I can't help but think some people need a life...then again, the same can be said about me since I enjoy stirring the pot with some jackasses that can't keep their political shit off my damn newsfeed!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 17:06:13 GMT -5
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me.This is essentially what the guy said in response. I'm really puzzled as to where he (or you) thinks I (or anyone else) said anything about how you "can't" say you're proud to be straight. You can say whatever you want to say. I just dispute the part where he apparently thinks that saying you're proud to be straight is equivalent to the statement that you're proud to be gay. Because again, the way society treats gays means that they are NOT equal statements. One fits right into what society already believes you should take pride in, and one doesn't. So one, yes, is more radical than the other. But no one is trying to "suppress" anyone from saying anything. I agree that sexuality, not being a choice, "shouldn't" really be a source of pride for anyone. I really liked the distinction made upthread between being proud of something and NOT being ashamed of it. I think when most people say they're proud to be gay, the message they're trying to send is, "I'm not ashamed of my sexuality." When a person says that they're proud to be straight, the implied message is really different - because society doesn't give them any reason to be ashamed of their sexuality in the first place. None of this means you can't say whatever the hell you feel like saying. And that is your opinion. I disagree and side with the guy you were arguing with. We can't be proud of something that we have no control over. I am no more ashamed of being straight than a gay person is of being gay...therefore, to me it is equivalent. I just wouldn't waste my time arguing with random people on facebook about it. Unless they annoyed me. Then I would make ridiculous arguments just to annoy them. I've done that and I laugh at how riled up I can make some people...I can't help but think some people need a life...then again, the same can be said about me since I enjoy stirring the pot with some jackasses that can't keep their political shit off my damn newsfeed! I can't highlight the sentence "I am no more ashamed of being straight than a gay person is of being gay..." But some people do think gay people should be ashamed of being gay. And some young people internalize what other people think and ARE ashame because of their sexuality. I think the statement isn't really about being proud of it, but it's saying I'm not afraid to be who and what I am. I think that seeing people that are comfortable and confident enought o make that statement can help someone else understand that they don't have to be ashamed or hide it either. Not all gay young people have the good fortune to have families and live in environments that accept them as they are. Maybe seeing people say "I'm proud to be gay" helps them have the confidence to be true to themselves in spite of the messages they get from the people around them. i agree with firebird that the message is different.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 25, 2014 17:07:31 GMT -5
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me.This is essentially what the guy said in response. I'm really puzzled as to where he (or you) thinks I (or anyone else) said anything about how you "can't" say you're proud to be straight. You can say whatever you want to say. I just dispute the part where he apparently thinks that saying you're proud to be straight is equivalent to the statement that you're proud to be gay. Because again, the way society treats gays means that they are NOT equal statements. One fits right into what society already believes you should take pride in, and one doesn't. So one, yes, is more radical than the other. But no one is trying to "suppress" anyone from saying anything. I agree that sexuality, not being a choice, "shouldn't" really be a source of pride for anyone. I really liked the distinction made upthread between being proud of something and NOT being ashamed of it. I think when most people say they're proud to be gay, the message they're trying to send is, "I'm not ashamed of my sexuality." When a person says that they're proud to be straight, the implied message is really different - because society doesn't give them any reason to be ashamed of their sexuality in the first place. None of this means you can't say whatever the hell you feel like saying. And that is your opinion. I disagree and side with the guy you were arguing with. We can't be proud of something that we have no control over. I am no more ashamed of being straight than a gay person is of being gay...therefore, to me it is equivalent. I just wouldn't waste my time arguing with random people on facebook about it. Unless they annoyed me. Then I would make ridiculous arguments just to annoy them. I've done that and I laugh at how riled up I can make some people...I can't help but think some people need a life...then again, the same can be said about me since I enjoy stirring the pot with some jackasses that can't keep their political shit off my damn newsfeed! are you proud to be an American?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jul 25, 2014 18:34:04 GMT -5
And that is your opinion. I disagree and side with the guy you were arguing with. We can't be proud of something that we have no control over. I am no more ashamed of being straight than a gay person is of being gay...therefore, to me it is equivalent. I just wouldn't waste my time arguing with random people on facebook about it. Unless they annoyed me. Then I would make ridiculous arguments just to annoy them. I've done that and I laugh at how riled up I can make some people...I can't help but think some people need a life...then again, the same can be said about me since I enjoy stirring the pot with some jackasses that can't keep their political shit off my damn newsfeed! I can't highlight the sentence "I am no more ashamed of being straight than a gay person is of being gay..." But some people do think gay people should be ashamed of being gay. And some young people internalize what other people think and ARE ashame because of their sexuality. I think the statement isn't really about being proud of it, but it's saying I'm not afraid to be who and what I am. I think that seeing people that are comfortable and confident enought o make that statement can help someone else understand that they don't have to be ashamed or hide it either. Not all gay young people have the good fortune to have families and live in environments that accept them as they are. Maybe seeing people say "I'm proud to be gay" helps them have the confidence to be true to themselves in spite of the messages they get from the people around them. i agree with firebird that the message is different. Exactly. The suicide rates for LGBTQ youth are high enough to freak the crap out of me. They don't create organizations along the lines of It Only Gets Better for straight kids. Fact is, it's horrible to grow up LGBTQ and medical professionals take the suicide risk VERY SERIOUSLY. My 9yo autistic son had a complete meltdown (flailing on the floor like a 2yo) when he saw DD's boy haircut because he knew HE would get teased at school for it and he couldn't bare the thought of returning to school with her in September. I'm pretty sure he didn't pull that fear out of thin air. So yeah, the mistreatment of LGBTQ youth is significant.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 25, 2014 18:43:38 GMT -5
I generally avoid Facebook arguments, mostly because I work for a very conservative state government and most of my opinions on social issues are pretty liberal - I don't want them turning up if someone Googles my name. But I did post a few comments on one of my brother's posts the other day, because I just couldn't stop myself. He posted a long-ass video of a Fox News talking head discussing how awful Obama is, with a comment about how we all needed to wake up and realize we were being duped, Obamacare, immigration, blah blah. I pointed out that if it weren't for the ACA, he would have been booted off my mom's health insurance plan when he turned 22 (he's 24 now) and since his employer doesn't offer insurance and he doesn't make enough to afford it on the private market, he would have been solely responsible for the more than $70K in medical bills he racked up after his DUI earlier this year. (I wasn't that mean, I didn't actually mention the DUI). He responded that my comment was bullshit and that just wait until next year when "100,000 illegal immigrants come over and kill us all. Period, end of argument." The next day, his post and all the comments were gone. I don't know if I changed his mind, but I think he did realize that he came off as a bit unhinged. Baby steps. It's not all hopeless, though - my 60yo aunt, who is VERY conservative, just recently came to the realization that maybe being gay isn't a choice, because why would you choose something that goes against your innate beliefs, and which is still so unacceptable to much of society? (My mom says it started when she asked my aunt if she remembered how old she was when she chose to be straight ).
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 25, 2014 19:02:26 GMT -5
It's all about respect and common courtesy and allowing people to make their own choices. People seem to think that just because you don't like what they like or do what they do you are wrong and THEY should cram their beliefs, life style, etc. down other people's throats. Then the opposite side will yell back what they believe and think and that is why FB, blogs and message boards were born. As long as what you are doing is not infringing on other's rights (like beating or abusing somebody) or hurting the innocent (like babies/kids, animals) then MYOB. Shout/judge less at them and they will shout/judge less back. bark less, wag more.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 25, 2014 19:14:16 GMT -5
Formerly SK - my heart breaks to read your posts in this thread. both for your autistic son and your DD, as you say in here. whatever happens with that child, I can tell from your posts that you will continue to love them as you do now and always have. I wish more parents of transgendered children could do so.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 25, 2014 21:13:16 GMT -5
Formerly SK- my apologies if this doesn't come out as eloquently as I want it to. Thank you for letting your daughter be who she is. Thank you for taking her for her haircut and buying her the clothes she feels comfortable in. The world needs more parents like you.
One of my son's close friends recently confided to him that he is planning on transitioning from Male to Female. He will be a freshman in college and told DS that he has to wait until he doesn't need his parents support or their help with college. He said if his mom knew the truth about him she would throw him out of the house immediately. Broke my heart when DS told me this.
Thank you you for being the mom that your child needs. I won't lie. Life my not always be easy for her but with you in her corner she will be that much stronger
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 25, 2014 21:58:22 GMT -5
And this thread just reminded me of one of the reasons I haven't been on Facebook in a while - the overabundance of bottomfeeders. I engage with enough idiots during the work day, I'm not going to more of the same in my off time!
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 26, 2014 9:07:54 GMT -5
And this thread just reminded me of one of the reasons I haven't been on Facebook in a while - the overabundance of bottomfeeders. I engage with enough idiots during the work day, I'm not going to more of the same in my off time! I must be an optimist because it reminded me of all the great people who I don't talk to much since I abandoned FB. I will say that my life just got to crazy and I am not a natural at things like FB because of my age. So keeping up with it became one more thing I had to do instead of fun so I stopped posting there much and eventually at all. I guess the account is still there.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 26, 2014 10:36:01 GMT -5
I don't want to see any political crap from anyone on Facebook.
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goldensam
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Post by goldensam on Jul 26, 2014 13:11:01 GMT -5
I used to be an extremely conservative republican from the Bible belt. In the last 12 years or so I have had the opportunity to meet many people on both sides of the spectrum that have really changed my whole life. In my opinion, for the better. I am now a hardcore liberal, and an atheist to boot. One of my sisters came out to me last fall. It wasn't a surprise to me, but my reaction was a surprise to her. I told her I loved her and I was proud of her for feeling comfortable enough to tell me and to be open with those around her and that if anyone gave her a hard time for it, they weren't worth her time. And I seriously meant every word. I shudder to think what I would have said to her if she came out to me a decade or more ago. I can't imagine the horrible things I may have said. A friend revealed in recent weeks that she is transgender. I honestly told her I was proud of her for no longer feeling that she needed to hide and that she had my full support. I am thankful that I listened and learned over the past decade or so and have opened my mind and heart to people that I would have shunned years ago. So many people live in fear of others knowing their "secret" and many lives end in suicide. That's why so many believe that it's important that others are "proud" even though they didn't work for it, or achieve something, or whatever. It just simply means they are not ashamed and will no longer live in secret where they can't even mention that they have a SO for fear that someone may find out they are gay. I don't have to hide my heterosexual relationship. Why should they?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 26, 2014 13:16:29 GMT -5
That's awesome, goldensam. They are both lucky to have you as family/friend. Keep in mind, tho, that a good number of extremely conservative Christian republicans would have had the same response. It has nothing to do with party affiliation or religion for a great number of us. It has to do with people treating other people well - even when they believe differently than us.
I am a conservative Christian republican and I would have said and done the same things had they been members of my family.
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goldensam
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Post by goldensam on Jul 26, 2014 13:34:36 GMT -5
In my world, you would be the exception, not the rule. I'm glad to hear it though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 14:23:12 GMT -5
Someone very close to me confided in me a few years ago. I wasn't exactly shocked. But I was glad they felt like they could tell me. I assured them that that didn't change anything about our relationship, I loved them just as much as I did before they told me. And I asked that they be a little patient with me, that it's not something I understand or have experience with, so at some point my ignorance might show. But that's all it is, ignorance, not malice and I'm open to learning so I won't be ignorant. I would never intentionally do anything to cause hurt feelings and I wouldn't stand by and observe anyone else doing it to them either. I'd be by their side and just wanted them to happy.
Frankly, I was also very worried. Not because I wanted them to change, but because I know that people can be so cruel. But I admired the courage that it takes to be yourself regardless of what people might think about you. It was a relief knowing that whatever conversations about gay people I'd had with/in front of them, I'd never said anything hateful about gay people, not knowing that I was speaking to or around one of the people I was talking about.
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MN-Investor
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Post by MN-Investor on Jul 26, 2014 23:56:42 GMT -5
To the folks who don't understand the concept of being proud of being gay, you really need to look up the definition of proud before you criticize. From Oxford Dictionaries: Being proud of achievements is only a part of the definition. Obviously, based on proud's definition, a person can certainly be proud to be gay or proud to be American or proud to be married to a sweetie for 38 years (ok, I'm not gay, but I am American and I have been married to a sweetie for 38 years!). You can look at other dictionaries if you think I cherry-picked one. I looked at several on-line dictionaries plus my two hard-cover decades-old dictionaries. None of them limit pride to self-achievements.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 27, 2014 0:14:22 GMT -5
It's just a difference of opinion and while I can't speak for anyone else, I certainly wasn't criticizing. Just stating an observation, which I still believe to be correct since being heterosexual or homosexual, going by the definition you posted, isn't an achievement, quality or possession, in my opinion. I suppose some consider their sexual orientation as a "quality" of some sort. I don't. Again, not criticizing anyone. I just don't think a person's sexuality is anything to be proud of. It just is.
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Jul 27, 2014 6:34:21 GMT -5
Any interaction on Facebook is pointless.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 27, 2014 7:27:26 GMT -5
It's just a difference of opinion and while I can't speak for anyone else, I certainly wasn't criticizing. Just stating an observation, which I still believe to be correct since being heterosexual or homosexual, going by the definition you posted, isn't an achievement, quality or possession, in my opinion. I suppose some consider their sexual orientation as a "quality" of some sort. I don't. Again, not criticizing anyone. I just don't think a person's sexuality is anything to be proud of. It just is. But coming out is an achievement. To yourself accepting that as a part of you, and then to friends, family, coworkers, etc. Telling my parents was probably the scariest moment of my life. I don't have a reason to come out much these days, but when I do there is still a little apprehension that borders on fear. I don't know how else to explain WHY the gay pride movement exists. Ideally it wouldnt have any reason to be acknowledged, but right now it does. I don't mean to be snarky-really, just wondering, but how is that not obvious? Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jul 27, 2014 7:45:25 GMT -5
Any interaction on Facebook is pointless. Yes, there is absolutely no need for me to know my kids activities are cancelled. Nor do I want to join my friends for happy hour. I also don't care to hear from my cousins in Colorado whom I haven't seen since my grandmother died in 2000. A complete waste of time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2014 9:25:41 GMT -5
It's just a difference of opinion and while I can't speak for anyone else, I certainly wasn't criticizing. Just stating an observation, which I still believe to be correct since being heterosexual or homosexual, going by the definition you posted, isn't an achievement, quality or possession, in my opinion. I suppose some consider their sexual orientation as a "quality" of some sort. I don't. Again, not criticizing anyone. I just don't think a person's sexuality is anything to be proud of. It just is. But coming out is an achievement. To yourself accepting that as a part of you, and then to friends, family, coworkers, etc. Telling my parents was probably the scariest moment of my life. I don't have a reason to come out much these days, but when I do there is still a little apprehension that borders on fear. I don't know how else to explain WHY the gay pride movement exists. Ideally it wouldnt have any reason to be acknowledged, but right now it does. I don't mean to be snarky-really, just wondering, but how is that not obvious? Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards My gay coworker told me how afraid he was to tell his Dad. His Dad was very religious and a "manly" man. He said his Dad didn't react at all like he expected. He loved his son and that was all that mattered. I can see a teenager or even a young adult being scared to tell their parents. We don't want to tell our parents lots of things that will upset them or make them sad. And I think it does make a lot of parents sad, not because they think their kid did anything wrong, but because they're afraid wrong will be done to their child because of it. But why should rae, a grown woman, have to feel apprehension that borders on fear about how people might react when they learn about her? It's not like she's admitting to robbing and murdering people. I can't say why she feels that apprehension, but I bet there's a reason for it, and I'm guessing it's not because people are always nice and accepting.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 27, 2014 10:01:15 GMT -5
Then so be it. Its their problem not hers unless she makes it hers. I'm tired of anyone's sex life but my own. Keep it to yourself. If you're happy with who you are then STFU about it and leave the rest of us in peace. I think you protest too much because you aren't all that comfortable with yourself. So if I'm wrong then just quietly go about your business. Just like anyone else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2014 10:23:22 GMT -5
Then so be it. Its their problem not hers unless she makes it hers. I'm tired of anyone's sex life but my own. Keep it to yourself. If you're happy with who you are then STFU about it and leave the rest of us in peace. I think you protest too much because you aren't all that comfortable with yourself. So if I'm wrong then just quietly go about your business. Just like anyone else. I don't think one has to be talking specifically about their sex life for it to come up. I know which of my coworkers are married. If Rae worked with me and we were chit chatting, I'd probably assume her spouse is a "he". She might want to correct my assumption if I ask something like "are you and your husband bringing the kids to the company picnic next week". I don't see anything wrong with that and I can see being apprehensive about what I might say next. On rethinking that, Rae might not need to correct me, but you know what I mean. It doesn't have to be a conversation about something very personal and it definitely doesn't have to be a conversation about sex for it to come up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2014 11:16:59 GMT -5
Then so be it. Its their problem not hers unless she makes it hers. I'm tired of anyone's sex life but my own. Keep it to yourself. If you're happy with who you are then STFU about it and leave the rest of us in peace. I think you protest too much because you aren't all that comfortable with yourself. So if I'm wrong then just quietly go about your business. Just like anyone else. So as soon as no one ever gets beaten up because of their sex life, and their sex life doesn't stop them from marrying the person they want to marry, or adopt children or any other things that heterosexuals take for granted, everyone will stop talking about it.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 27, 2014 18:58:24 GMT -5
Then so be it. Its their problem not hers unless she makes it hers. I'm tired of anyone's sex life but my own. Keep it to yourself. If you're happy with who you are then STFU about it and leave the rest of us in peace. I think you protest too much because you aren't all that comfortable with yourself. So if I'm wrong then just quietly go about your business. Just like anyone else. You can get me to shut the fuck up by putting me on ignore yourself. I think that would be best since you seem to have come to some interesting ideas about how I live my life. I don't talk about my sex life, although its amazing the questions people have asked me. I don't answer those btw. I'm very comfortable with who I am and I'm not going to pretend to be something else because I make some people uncomfortable. When the topic comes up, I'm honest about my experiences and thoughts on the matter but I don't go out looking for the conversation either. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2014 19:08:09 GMT -5
I made the mistake of debating on Facebook today. Ex-MIL posted an apocalyptic propaganda video. It was showing all the waters that have been found running red in the past few years. No explanation. Just music and dates/places. I should have just left it, but it annoyed me to no end for some reason. I looked up every one of those occurrences and posted the causes. Everything from sediment from flash floods to algae to chemical spills...
Then I posted a picture of the cove and said they'd forgotten the one filled with dolphin blood.
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