ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 25, 2014 12:20:45 GMT -5
I kinda see you point. But then.. STAND UP, BE LOUD, BE A GIRL AND BE PROUD! I remember marching in a parade in the mid seventies in my girl scout uniform chanting this. This was around the time Title IX was finally being implemented and enforced in my area (and IIRC you were not raised in the US as a child, am I right?). There was a period of time when public schools had almost all the the federal funds going exclusively to boys sports and if girls wanted a team they had to find ways to fund it them selves or do without. The grade school I went to had zero pictures of girls sports teams prior to 1976 because they simply didn't have any. We went to a private school that took a few more years to catch up and didn't have girls teams until the late 70's. Nowadays my DD would look at you like you're crazy if you told here only boys would be allowed to play schools sports. But there was a period of time when it wasn't so. So I can see the point of it. I like being a girl/woman. I always have. I am happy that I am a woman. I have never felt "proud" to be one. To me the word "proud" should be used in association with some kind of deed/accomplishment. I don't know....may be it all just semantics... bc going back to Firebird's "fat" example - I can understand someone saying "I am happy being fat", but I can't understand "I am proud being fat"... Like I said - it might be just be semantics.. It is semantics. But semantics are terribly fun to argue over.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Jul 25, 2014 13:08:57 GMT -5
I really try not to engage with people over Facebook, mainly because I believe that no one actually changes their opinions based on comments received there. They are just looking for a debate/fight or someone to reaffirm their beliefs. Although I do keep some people that I tend to disagree with on my newsfeed just to see differing opinions (same for reading some threads here). It's interesting to me how people arrive at the conclusions that they do and it has made me re-think my position in some matters and has confirmed my belief in others. If I filtered out all the people that I didn't agree with then I would be just like them and not challenging myself to think outside my little box. Sometimes it's a good mental exercise to think through exactly WHY something is bothering you or you don't agree with it. While these debates can be painful, I think they do help people (usually the quiet ones on the sidelines) reevalute things. I have changed a lot of my opinions based on comments I've read online that have led me to think deeper on a lot of issues. No, I'm not the loudmouth, annoying person you were debating with to start with, but I think it can make a difference to put opinions out there. I'm tired. I feel like that doesn't make any sense, but hopefully it does at least a little bit.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 13:11:12 GMT -5
A bunch of people (presumably friends of the guy who posted) have been "liking" my posts. So I guess it was worthwhile to stir the pot a little, if it gets people thinking (or, if they're shy, just lets them know they have friends out there).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 13:13:25 GMT -5
I don't argue with people anymore, at least not about topics where people are going to get all hot/bothered. In the end, it doesn't really matter what my opinion is...doesn't matter what their opinion is. The collective tide is going to turn one way or the other and it's best just to just accept it because that's the way society is moving. I know you need activists to drive this stuff so some people have to be vocal, but it ain't gonna be me! I don't really argue with people either. One of my opinions that I do believe matters is that I think it's wrong to mistreat people or call them ugly names just because they're gay. It reminds me of the ugly names and references that have been/are used for a group of people I belong to. I cringe inwardly when I hear someone refer to gay people with derogatory language and I have called people on it before. Some people try to pretend it's harmless and I have to explain to them in a way they can understand that it is not harmless. I've also explained to people before that I don't think being gay is always a choice. I do believe some people are born gay and have no choice in the matter. I tell people that don't believe that, that humans are complicated beings. We're not all wired completely the same. If we can accept that from birth it's "in" some people to be a gifted artist or musician or even a serial killer, that it's just part of who they are, why can't we accept that it's "in" some people to be gay and they couldn't change it if they wanted to? One person that I've had both conversations with, about the language and about people being born that way, recently had a close relative come out. It's funny how it hits home when all these foul things you've said turn out to have been about someone that you're close to and love and you just didn't know it. So, while it's not my life's mission to fight for gay rights, I will speak up IRL when I hear people refer to gay people in a derogatory way or express hatred or intense dislike of someone just because they're gay. I'm not trying to persuade them to change the way they feel about gays, just letting them know that what they're saying is not ok and I don't want to hear it. If applicable and necessary, I tell them they're no different from or better than the people that insult and hate them for no good reason. If people that were different from us never spoke up for us or fought for us to be treated fairly and with respect, how different would our lives be? That usually gets their attention.
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Peace Of Mind
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[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 25, 2014 13:27:37 GMT -5
It's all about respect and common courtesy and allowing people to make their own choices. People seem to think that just because you don't like what they like or do what they do you are wrong and THEY should cram their beliefs, life style, etc. down other people's throats. Then the opposite side will yell back what they believe and think and that is why FB, blogs and message boards were born. As long as what you are doing is not infringing on other's rights (like beating or abusing somebody) or hurting the innocent (like babies/kids, animals) then MYOB. Shout/judge less at them and they will shout/judge less back.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jul 25, 2014 13:30:40 GMT -5
I don't argue with people anymore, at least not about topics where people are going to get all hot/bothered. In the end, it doesn't really matter what my opinion is...doesn't matter what their opinion is. The collective tide is going to turn one way or the other and it's best just to just accept it because that's the way society is moving. I know you need activists to drive this stuff so some people have to be vocal, but it ain't gonna be me! I don't really argue with people either. One of my opinions that I do believe matters is that I think it's wrong to mistreat people or call them ugly names just because they're gay. It reminds me of the ugly names and references that have been/are used for a group of people I belong to. I cringe inwardly when I hear someone refer to gay people with derogatory language and I have called people on it before. Some people try to pretend it's harmless and I have to explain to them in a way they can understand that it is not harmless. I've also explained to people before that I don't think being gay is always a choice. I do believe some people are born gay and have no choice in the matter. I tell people that don't believe that, that humans are complicated beings. We're not all wired completely the same. If we can accept that from birth it's "in" some people to be a gifted artist or musician or even a serial killer, that it's just part of who they are, why can't we accept that it's "in" some people to be gay and they couldn't change it if they wanted to? One person that I've had both conversations with, about the language and about people being born that way, recently had a close relative come out. It's funny how it hits home when all these foul things you've said turn out to have been about someone that you're close to and love and you just didn't know it. So, while it's not my life's mission to fight for gay rights, I will speak up IRL when I hear people refer to gay people in a derogatory way or express hatred or intense dislike of someone just because they're gay. I'm not trying to persuade them to change the way they feel about gays, just letting them know that what they're saying is not ok and I don't want to hear it. If applicable and necessary, I tell them they're no different from or better than the people that insult and hate them for no good reason. If people that were different from us never spoke up for us or fought for us to be treated fairly and with respect, how different would our lives be? That usually gets their attention. I hear you. I used to have the opinion that people were probably born a certain way, but it doesn’t mean you just go “acting” on your impluses (could be anything really). That all sounds good on paper until you have a relative come out (my sister, actually) and then you realize “well, I guess that’s not really practical in the real world”. So my view, it needs to get ultra-personal for them before it really hits home. Until then, we’re just discussing hypotheticals.
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MN-Investor
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Post by MN-Investor on Jul 25, 2014 14:07:16 GMT -5
My sister and her partner have been together for over 20 years. Last year, when the state of Washington legalized same-sex marriage, they set a date.
They weren't sure what Mom's reaction would be, so, since I see Mom every week, they asked me to break the news to her. Actually, I think I offered and they accepted. Mom's reaction: A big smile and the comment "DD's friend has always been like a daughter to me!"
Actually, my very conservative brother and his wife were the only disapproving ones. "Can't you get all the benefits, basically, through papers drawn up by a lawyer?" Uh, no! My sister, for example, has always been covered by my now SIL's company medical plan. When sister was not married to SIL, that was a taxable benefit to her.
My brother's four home-schooled daughters (now ages 10 - 18) have always accepted SIL as an aunt. I think that is what is changing for the upcoming generations. It's easy to reject same-sex marriage when you don't know a gay person. When you have people you love who are gay, you then realize how inherently unfair it is to deny them the same rights you have.
The older I get, the more liberal I get. My DH, however, likes to listen to conservative talk radio. Sigh. I don't argue politics with him. His stance on gay marriage used to be "I'm not against same-sex unions, I just don't like them calling it marriage." Turns out that one of his favorite co-workers, from another state, is gay. About a year ago, the co-worker's long term partner died, and the co-worker was devastated. My DH, likewise, had been devastated when he lost his older brother 12 years ago, so DH wrote a very nice, understanding, consoling letter to his co-worker. It's made my DH more empathetic to gays wanting to marry. Plus my DH really likes my now SIL. So, there is progress, and it's being brought about by gays making themselves known to family, friends, and co-workers.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Jul 25, 2014 14:15:38 GMT -5
My sister and her partner have been together for over 20 years. Last year, when the state of Washington legalized same-sex marriage, they set a date. They weren't sure what Mom's reaction would be, so, since I see Mom every week, they asked me to break the news to her. Actually, I think I offered and they accepted. Mom's reaction: A big smile and the comment "DD's friend has always been like a daughter to me!" Actually, my very conservative brother and his wife were the only disapproving ones. "Can't you get all the benefits, basically, through papers drawn up by a lawyer?" Uh, no! My sister, for example, has always been covered by my now SIL's company medical plan. When sister was not married to SIL, that was a taxable benefit to her. My brother's four home-schooled daughters (now ages 10 - 18) have always accepted SIL as an aunt. I think that is what is changing for the upcoming generations. It's easy to reject same-sex marriage when you don't know a gay person. When you have people you love who are gay, you then realize how inherently unfair it is to deny them the same rights you have. The older I get, the more liberal I get. My DH, however, likes to listen to conservative talk radio. Sigh. I don't argue politics with him. His stance on gay marriage used to be "I'm not against same-sex unions, I just don't like them calling it marriage." Turns out that one of his favorite co-workers, from another state, is gay. About a year ago, the co-worker's long term partner died, and the co-worker was devastated. My DH, likewise, had been devastated when he lost his older brother 12 years ago, so DH wrote a very nice, understanding, consoling letter to his co-worker. It's made my DH more empathetic to gays wanting to marry. Plus my DH really likes my now SIL. So, there is progress, and it's being brought about by gays making themselves known to family, friends, and co-workers. I think the older I get the less inclined to get riled up over most things. I just don't have the energy. Besides, I have doctors appts and other things to occupy my time.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2014 14:47:25 GMT -5
I don't debate real life friends on FB...there is no point. I do get annoyed by the twits that constantly post their political views (instead of hiding them I intentionally keep posting to them until they block me
I have to admit that I don't understand the "I'm proud to be black" I'm proud to be gay", etc. I'm white, I'm female and I'm straight. That's the way I was born. I had nothing to do with any of those. I am proud that I am successful because that is something that I worked towards.
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me.
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imanangel
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Post by imanangel on Jul 25, 2014 14:48:27 GMT -5
Quoted edited to remove deleted content. Mature content. TheCaptain - Mod. (Yes it was funny, but non PG-13) I'm going to quit the internet now because that was the best thing I've read today. I missed the best thing on the internet today?
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 25, 2014 14:51:34 GMT -5
I'm going to quit the internet now because that was the best thing I've read today. I missed the best thing on the internet today? Me too! Pretty please - somebody pm me and tell me what Archie said?
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Jul 25, 2014 14:52:41 GMT -5
I don't debate real life friends on FB...there is no point. I do get annoyed by the twits that constantly post their political views (instead of hiding them I intentionally keep posting to them until they block me
I have to admit that I don't understand the "I'm proud to be black" I'm proud to be gay", etc. I'm white, I'm female and I'm straight. That's the way I was born. I had nothing to do with any of those. I am proud that I am successful because that is something that I worked towards.
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me. you should get a bunch of your accountant friends and have a parade down main street....you could toss all the kids little calculators...and pencils...and green visors!!
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 25, 2014 14:54:03 GMT -5
I don't debate real life friends on FB...there is no point. I do get annoyed by the twits that constantly post their political views (instead of hiding them I intentionally keep posting to them until they block me
I have to admit that I don't understand the "I'm proud to be black" I'm proud to be gay", etc. I'm white, I'm female and I'm straight. That's the way I was born. I had nothing to do with any of those. I am proud that I am successful because that is something that I worked towards.
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me. Are you proud to be an American? Where at least you know your free?
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Jul 25, 2014 14:54:54 GMT -5
I don't debate real life friends on FB...there is no point. I do get annoyed by the twits that constantly post their political views (instead of hiding them I intentionally keep posting to them until they block me
I have to admit that I don't understand the "I'm proud to be black" I'm proud to be gay", etc. I'm white, I'm female and I'm straight. That's the way I was born. I had nothing to do with any of those. I am proud that I am successful because that is something that I worked towards.
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me. Are you proud to be an American? Where at least you know your free? Don't forget the men who died....who gave that right to me.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 25, 2014 14:55:36 GMT -5
Are you proud to be an American? Where at least you know your free? Don't forget the men who died....who gave that right to me. And I'll gladly stand UP
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 25, 2014 14:56:28 GMT -5
Lee Greenwood in the house?
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Jul 25, 2014 14:56:58 GMT -5
Next to you and defend her still today...
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 25, 2014 14:57:29 GMT -5
Lee Greenwood in the house? I don't know. But if he were, do you think he would be proud to be an American?
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Jul 25, 2014 14:59:05 GMT -5
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 25, 2014 15:02:11 GMT -5
Liars. How many years did you serve in the military?
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Jul 25, 2014 15:04:47 GMT -5
Are you talking to me Shaun? If so, I spent 4 years as an Air Force wife and I my DH is a disabled Viet Nam veteran.
Agent Orange is the gift that keeps on giving...right now it's giving my Dh 2-3 more years to live.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Jul 25, 2014 15:07:45 GMT -5
I apologize for hi-jacking this thread. We can now go back to the original topic.
BG- YM & YMOT- mod
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jul 25, 2014 15:20:38 GMT -5
I don't debate real life friends on FB...there is no point. I do get annoyed by the twits that constantly post their political views (instead of hiding them I intentionally keep posting to them until they block me
I have to admit that I don't understand the "I'm proud to be black" I'm proud to be gay", etc. I'm white, I'm female and I'm straight. That's the way I was born. I had nothing to do with any of those. I am proud that I am successful because that is something that I worked towards.
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me. you should get a bunch of your accountant friends and have a parade down main street....you could toss all the kids little calculators...and pencils...and green visors!!
Not a good idea...us accountants don't use little calculators, we use big heavy-ass machine calculators. We'd knock out too many kids with those And no self-respecting accountant uses a pencil - pen only and no white-out! Of course, since green ledgers aren't really used much anymore, the pencil thing isn't as big a deal... I think what I would want to throw out to a crowd is a booklet explaining common financial transactions (like loans and mortgages) and how to balance a checkbook!
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jul 25, 2014 15:24:59 GMT -5
It is really pointless to argue with people who will never change. Why do we do it? Congrats. You are now on the way to the realization that arguing on the internet is stupid. After that, you can graduate to making fun of people on the internet in a variety of nasty ways. And then the world will be your oyster.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 25, 2014 15:26:50 GMT -5
Wow... sounds like a blast... At least the kids can make balloon animals out of the condoms that planned parenthood threw out.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jul 25, 2014 15:28:53 GMT -5
I'm proud to be a gay, fat Canadian...
F U Society!!!!!
<<note quintuple exclamation marks>> Why are you outing yourself as Canadian?!?!?!? No one had to know
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2014 15:31:17 GMT -5
you should get a bunch of your accountant friends and have a parade down main street....you could toss all the kids little calculators...and pencils...and green visors!!
Not a good idea...us accountants don't use little calculators, we use big heavy-ass machine calculators. We'd knock out too many kids with those And no self-respecting accountant uses a pencil - pen only and no white-out! Of course, since green ledgers aren't really used much anymore, the pencil thing isn't as big a deal... I think what I would want to throw out to a crowd is a booklet explaining common financial transactions (like loans and mortgages) and how to balance a checkbook! Pft...like anyone would accuse me of having self-respect
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jul 25, 2014 15:31:31 GMT -5
Wow... sounds like a blast... At least the kids can make balloon animals out of the condoms that planned parenthood threw out. That kind of stuff is fun, dammit! What's wrong with you people??!!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2014 15:32:18 GMT -5
I don't debate real life friends on FB...there is no point. I do get annoyed by the twits that constantly post their political views (instead of hiding them I intentionally keep posting to them until they block me
I have to admit that I don't understand the "I'm proud to be black" I'm proud to be gay", etc. I'm white, I'm female and I'm straight. That's the way I was born. I had nothing to do with any of those. I am proud that I am successful because that is something that I worked towards.
That said, I find it crazy that someone can say they are proud to be gay but I can't say I'm proud to be straight, white, etc. It smells of reverse discrimination to me...and reverse discrimination annoys the shit out of me. you should get a bunch of your accountant friends and have a parade down main street....you could toss all the kids little calculators...and pencils...and green visors!!
What am I, a freaking liberal?? Let those little bastards get jobs to buy their own calculators, pencils and visors!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 25, 2014 15:33:37 GMT -5
According to me or my wife? Her list on me is longer and probably more accurate, but mine is funnier.
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