Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 9:55:49 GMT -5
Not that they aren't all pretty much pointless.
Husband of one of my mom's best friends is a staunch conservative. This morning he posted that little m/f icon with "Straight Pride" written across it and the following rant next to it:
"Funny thing... I've seen others post this and they are attacked viciously. Apparently it is now intolerant and bigoted to be straight and proud in this upside down, politically correct society we live in. I invite everyone who is straight and unashamed to post this on your wall."
He wrote beneath it, "I ask the question in this politically suffocating time of change. Am I allowed to be proud that I am straight and enjoy being so?"
Stuff like that pisses me off. I posted with a short explanation of why the statements "I'm proud to be gay" and "I'm proud to be straight" are not equivalent statements (namely, it's really freaking easy to be "proud" of something that society expects you to be and applauds you for being... not so much to be proud of something society is constantly discriminating against you for being). Which of course opened a huge can of worms.
I really have a hard time fathoming why people still don't get the very basic concept that their morals should not necessarily inform our LAWS. Or that being a supporter of gay marriage means you are somehow against straight marriage.
It is really pointless to argue with people who will never change. Why do we do it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 9:58:23 GMT -5
1. To make it more difficult for them to spout their BS publicly.
2. To let others of like mind to us know we are out there.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 10:05:18 GMT -5
Good reasons, laterbloomer I feel like I'm spitting into the wind a lot of the time (I haven't gotten into a rape culture argument in months, because I just don't have the stomach for it these days) but it's a good reminder that standing by and doing nothing allows this jackassery to perpetuate more easily.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 10:16:12 GMT -5
Archie, you're so dreamy
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 25, 2014 10:19:11 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't see how anyone should be "proud" about their sexuality. You are what you are. It's not like some huge accomplishment to become one of the other. Of course, I don't understand a person's need to discuss their sexuality in the first place, so it's not a huge surprise that I don't understand the so-called "pride" attached.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 25, 2014 10:23:04 GMT -5
It is really pointless to argue with people who will never change. Why do we do it?
Because we harbor some sense of hope that eventually a light bulb will go off and they'll realize what an ass they are?
I have been arguing with my dad for YEARS about same sex marriages and that they should be legal. He'd argue against them until he met the lovely gay couple that live next door to his vacation home in Palm Springs. They are interestingly enough originally from MN and one of the gentlemen is the BIL of one of my parents close friends. With that couple the light bulb finally went off for my dad. He told me "I've seen what a great family they are and what great parents they are to their son. I can't be against something that results in a family like that" so with that he switched and is pro- marriage equality. I did finally get a "you were right" out of him
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 25, 2014 10:26:30 GMT -5
(quote edited to remove deleted post. Mature content. The Captain - Mod. Oh, put the John Deere away, you heathen. You have little kids; who are you foolin' anyway?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 10:27:55 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't see how anyone should be "proud" about their sexuality. You are what you are. It's not like some huge accomplishment to become one of the other. Of course, I don't understand a person's need to discuss their sexuality in the first place, so it's not a huge surprise that I don't understand the so-called "pride" attached. I'm sure the LGBTG community would be very happy if their sexuality was never a topic of discussion. Their gay pride movement is in response to gay shaming and bashing and being denied civil rights because of their sexuality.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jul 25, 2014 10:28:20 GMT -5
Quoted edited to remove deleted content. Mature content. TheCaptain - Mod. (Yes it was funny, but non PG-13) I'm going to quit the internet now because that was the best thing I've read today.
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Jul 25, 2014 10:32:28 GMT -5
(namely, it's really freaking easy to be "proud" of something that society expects you to be and applauds you for being... not so much to be proud of something society is constantly discriminating against you for being). why are people always saying "I'm proud to be an American"
Doesn't society expect you to be an American?
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Jul 25, 2014 10:33:18 GMT -5
Quote Edited to remove deleted post. Mature content. The Captain - Mod, I told you it'd come naturally!!
Good job Arch!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 10:33:42 GMT -5
(namely, it's really freaking easy to be "proud" of something that society expects you to be and applauds you for being... not so much to be proud of something society is constantly discriminating against you for being). why are people always saying "I'm proud to be an American"
Doesn't society expect you to be an American?
I think your example enforces FB's point.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 25, 2014 10:37:05 GMT -5
Not that they aren't all pretty much pointless. Husband of one of my mom's best friends is a staunch conservative. This morning he posted that little m/f icon with "Straight Pride" written across it and the following rant next to it: "Funny thing... I've seen others post this and they are attacked viciously. Apparently it is now intolerant and bigoted to be straight and proud in this upside down, politically correct society we live in. I invite everyone who is straight and unashamed to post this on your wall." He wrote beneath it, "I ask the question in this politically suffocating time of change. Am I allowed to be proud that I am straight and enjoy being so?" Stuff like that pisses me off. I posted with a short explanation of why the statements "I'm proud to be gay" and "I'm proud to be straight" are not equivalent statements (namely, it's really freaking easy to be "proud" of something that society expects you to be and applauds you for being... not so much to be proud of something society is constantly discriminating against you for being). Which of course opened a huge can of worms. I really have a hard time fathoming why people still don't get the very basic concept that their morals should not necessarily inform our LAWS. Or that being a supporter of gay marriage means you are somehow against straight marriage. It is really pointless to argue with people who will never change. Why do we do it? So, I should be ashamed to be white?
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jul 25, 2014 10:37:25 GMT -5
people are stupid.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jul 25, 2014 10:37:50 GMT -5
Not that they aren't all pretty much pointless. Husband of one of my mom's best friends is a staunch conservative. This morning he posted that little m/f icon with "Straight Pride" written across it and the following rant next to it: "Funny thing... I've seen others post this and they are attacked viciously. Apparently it is now intolerant and bigoted to be straight and proud in this upside down, politically correct society we live in. I invite everyone who is straight and unashamed to post this on your wall." He wrote beneath it, "I ask the question in this politically suffocating time of change. Am I allowed to be proud that I am straight and enjoy being so?" Stuff like that pisses me off. I posted with a short explanation of why the statements "I'm proud to be gay" and "I'm proud to be straight" are not equivalent statements (namely, it's really freaking easy to be "proud" of something that society expects you to be and applauds you for being... not so much to be proud of something society is constantly discriminating against you for being). Which of course opened a huge can of worms. I really have a hard time fathoming why people still don't get the very basic concept that their morals should not necessarily inform our LAWS. Or that being a supporter of gay marriage means you are somehow against straight marriage. It is really pointless to argue with people who will never change. Why do we do it? So, I should be ashamed to be white? Yes, you really could use a tan.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 25, 2014 10:38:31 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't see how anyone should be "proud" about their sexuality. You are what you are. It's not like some huge accomplishment to become one of the other. Of course, I don't understand a person's need to discuss their sexuality in the first place, so it's not a huge surprise that I don't understand the so-called "pride" attached. I'm sure the LGBTG community would be very happy if their sexuality was never a topic of discussion. Their gay pride movement is in response to gay shaming and bashing and being denied civil rights because of their sexuality.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jul 25, 2014 10:39:01 GMT -5
1. To make it more difficult for them to spout their BS publicly.
2. To let others of like mind to us know we are out there. You know, I've always thought the definition of crazy was to argue with crazy people, so I never bother. But those are good reasons to speak up.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jul 25, 2014 10:41:40 GMT -5
I'm sure the LGBTG community would be very happy if their sexuality was never a topic of discussion. Their gay pride movement is in response to gay shaming and bashing and being denied civil rights because of their sexuality. You're correct, Virgil. The gay pride movement has nothing to do with discrimination. It's all because gay people want to spread their gay cooties to the straight population.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jul 25, 2014 10:42:33 GMT -5
Not that they aren't all pretty much pointless. Husband of one of my mom's best friends is a staunch conservative. This morning he posted that little m/f icon with "Straight Pride" written across it and the following rant next to it: "Funny thing... I've seen others post this and they are attacked viciously. Apparently it is now intolerant and bigoted to be straight and proud in this upside down, politically correct society we live in. I invite everyone who is straight and unashamed to post this on your wall." He wrote beneath it, "I ask the question in this politically suffocating time of change. Am I allowed to be proud that I am straight and enjoy being so?" Stuff like that pisses me off. I posted with a short explanation of why the statements "I'm proud to be gay" and "I'm proud to be straight" are not equivalent statements (namely, it's really freaking easy to be "proud" of something that society expects you to be and applauds you for being... not so much to be proud of something society is constantly discriminating against you for being). Which of course opened a huge can of worms. I really have a hard time fathoming why people still don't get the very basic concept that their morals should not necessarily inform our LAWS. Or that being a supporter of gay marriage means you are somehow against straight marriage. It is really pointless to argue with people who will never change. Why do we do it? Probably for the same reason that just because someone is against gay marriage that doesn't mean they hate gays...
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 25, 2014 10:43:11 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't see how anyone should be "proud" about their sexuality. You are what you are. It's not like some huge accomplishment to become one of the other. Of course, I don't understand a person's need to discuss their sexuality in the first place, so it's not a huge surprise that I don't understand the so-called "pride" attached. OMG, this post of yours made me want to take you off "ignore", so I could like it.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 10:46:15 GMT -5
Doesn't society expect you to be an American?
I didn't say it was BAD to be proud of things that society reinforces. Just that saying you're proud to be "x thing that society wants you to be" isn't the same as saying you're proud to be "x thing that society hates."
Another example is weight. If you say that you're proud to be fat, you are openly defying the near-universal society vote that fat is bad, fat is ugly, fat is lazy, and so forth. You're saying that you're not any of those things. As a result, you're making a pretty radical statement.
Saying "I'm proud to be thin" is not nearly so radical. Society expects you to be proud of being thin. That doesn't mean there's anything WRONG with being proud of your thinness, just that it isn't hard to be pleased with an aspect of yourself when it happens to match what society idealizes.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 10:46:42 GMT -5
So, I should be ashamed to be white?
Where did I say people should be ashamed to be anything?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 25, 2014 10:47:02 GMT -5
Not that they aren't all pretty much pointless. Husband of one of my mom's best friends is a staunch conservative. This morning he posted that little m/f icon with "Straight Pride" written across it and the following rant next to it: "Funny thing... I've seen others post this and they are attacked viciously. Apparently it is now intolerant and bigoted to be straight and proud in this upside down, politically correct society we live in. I invite everyone who is straight and unashamed to post this on your wall." He wrote beneath it, "I ask the question in this politically suffocating time of change. Am I allowed to be proud that I am straight and enjoy being so?" Stuff like that pisses me off. I posted with a short explanation of why the statements "I'm proud to be gay" and "I'm proud to be straight" are not equivalent statements (namely, it's really freaking easy to be "proud" of something that society expects you to be and applauds you for being... not so much to be proud of something society is constantly discriminating against you for being). Which of course opened a huge can of worms. I really have a hard time fathoming why people still don't get the very basic concept that their morals should not necessarily inform our LAWS. Or that being a supporter of gay marriage means you are somehow against straight marriage.
It is really pointless to argue with people who will never change. Why do we do it? I am most likely going to regret posting this but your sentiment is exactly the same as of all those people who you think are "wrong". so, while you can't fathom why this and that, they can't fathom the opposite. So, to answer your question - yes, it's pointless to argue with people bc just like you, they will not change
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 10:50:04 GMT -5
Probably for the same reason that just because someone is against gay marriage that doesn't mean they hate gays...
(General "you" since I have no idea if you were referring to yourself or not.)
You may not "hate gays" but by being against gay marriage, you're saying you want to deny gays something to which straight people are entitled to by virtue of their straightness.
So you can see where they might get the impression that you don't feel really positively toward them. Why the hell would you care who marries who, as long as you can marry who you want?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 25, 2014 10:50:31 GMT -5
Doesn't society expect you to be an American?
I didn't say it was BAD to be proud of things that society reinforces. Just that saying you're proud to be "x thing that society wants you to be" isn't the same as saying you're proud to be "x thing that society hates." Another example is weight. If you say that you're proud to be fat, you are openly defying the near-universal society vote that fat is bad, fat is ugly, fat is lazy, and so forth. You're saying that you're not any of those things. As a result, you're making a pretty radical statement. Saying "I'm proud to be thin" is not nearly so radical. Society expects you to be proud of being thin. That doesn't mean there's anything WRONG with being proud of your thinness, just that it isn't hard to be pleased with an aspect of yourself when it happens to match what society idealizes. Has it ever occurred to you that people are proud of what is important to them, not the society. May be that's the problem that some people find with the whole "I am proud to be gay" statements - it's all about being radical and making a statement, and not much about anything else
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 10:51:20 GMT -5
So, to answer your question - yes, it's pointless to argue with people bc just like you, they will not change
I was never against gay marriage but I've changed my mind on plenty of things before - usually when I saw what a jackass I was for holding onto a certain opinion.
Examples available upon request.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 25, 2014 10:51:53 GMT -5
You're correct, Virgil. The gay pride movement has nothing to do with discrimination. It's all because gay people want to spread their gay cooties to the straight population. Keep guessing and hopefully you'll eventually get it.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jul 25, 2014 10:53:03 GMT -5
You're correct, Virgil. The gay pride movement has nothing to do with discrimination. It's all because gay people want to spread their gay cooties to the straight population. Keep guessing and hopefully you'll eventually get it. Actually, it seems as though you were comparing gay people to a pile of shit, but that isn't very Christian of you, so I don't think you would do that.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 25, 2014 10:54:28 GMT -5
Has it ever occurred to you that people are proud of what is important to them, not the society.
Actually, I do find that things people are proud of tend to be the things about them that society reinforces. Generally it's not the other way around.
We're social animals. We want to be liked and accepted. It's extremely difficult to honor parts of yourself that society looks down on and/or vilifies.
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Jul 25, 2014 10:55:45 GMT -5
I'm proud to be a gay, fat Canadian...
F U Society!!!!!
<<note quintuple exclamation marks>>
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