The state of men

[billisonboard]

Jul 19, 2014 10:18:57 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

... If someone broke into our home and he was here, he wouldn't cower behind me and expect me to fight off the intruders. As a man, that is his job not mine . ....

How about standing side by side?

[Shooby]

"I know my husband would feel different about a son than he does our daughters. My husband is the type of guy that believes a man should protect his family. If someone broke into our home and he was here, he wouldn't cower behind me and expect me to fight off the intruders. As a man, that is his job not mine . He would feel the same way about war. He wouldn't want either of his children going, but if one had to go should be the by he raised to act like a man, not his daughter."

THIS. 100%. Yes, I treat my daughter differently from my sons and vice versa. Call 911. Film at 11.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 10:23:37 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

Jul 19, 2014 10:18:57 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I know my husband would feel different about a son than he does our daughters. My husband is the type of guy that believes a man should protect his family. If someone broke into our home and he was here, he wouldn't cower behind me and expect me to fight off the intruders. As a man, that is his job not mine . He would feel the same way about war. He wouldn't want either of his children going, but if one had to go should be the by he raised to act like a man, not his daughter.

what exactly does being 'raised to act like a man' mean? 

what happens if someone breaks in and there's no man to protect you?

seriously, I find this attitude repulsive.  I'm guessing if you had sons, they wouldn't be allowed to do anything that wasn't 'manly'.

Meh, I'm ok wih some Internet stranger finding me repulsive :-)

We can agree to disagree. I don't have a son so I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure my husband would not be happy if his son sang show tunes and wanted to become a ballerina. But I have no way of knowing.

I do know that I would be devestated if my daughter turned out manly. I'm a girly girl and that is what I understand. Luckily she is a also a girly girl so I don't have to worry about it

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 10:35:13 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 19, 2014 10:18:57 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

... If someone broke into our home and he was here, he wouldn't cower behind me and expect me to fight off the intruders. As a man, that is his job not mine . ....

How about standing side by side?

My husband wouldn't do that. He would do his best to protect me and the kids

[billisonboard]

Jul 19, 2014 10:39:11 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jul 19, 2014 10:35:13 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

How about standing side by side?

My husband wouldn't do that. ...

How about you?

[Shooby]

Miss Tequila
"We can agree to disagree. I don't have a son so I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure my husband would not be happy if his son sang show tunes and wanted to become a ballerina. But I have no way of knowing.

I do know that I would be devestated if my daughter turned out manly. I'm a girly girl and that is what I understand. Luckily she is a also a girly girl so I don't have to worry about it."

Sorry but my quote feature does NOT work on my computer. Not sure why but I have tried to fix it and can't. Anyway, I was a tom boy. My DD is very athletic. My two sons are like Oscar and Felix. The oldest is pretty much of the "caveman", manly man type. My younger son is very precise, controlled and much more a suit and tie type. I really wouldn't care if my DD digs ditches and my sons sing showtunes.
However, to pretend girls and boys are exactly the same is nonsensical. There are very real dangers to girls and women in this world. And, that is a reality. I am more likely to let my 6' 3" 200 lb son to walk alone than I am my tween girl. That is the way it is. She doesn't have as much freedom to roam alone. Yeah, things can happen to boys. But, my older son is very strong and physical. However, my younger son is slighter and didn't have the street smarts of my older so I limited him a bit more in that regard too.
The notion that you can treat your children equally makes no sense. I give my kids what they need individually. And, sometimes one will get more of whatever because they need more at that time.

[billisonboard]

Jul 19, 2014 10:48:34 GMT -5 Shooby said:

.... There are very real dangers to girls and women in this world. And, that is a reality. ...

There are also very real dangers to boys and men in this world.

Jul 19, 2014 10:18:57 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

... If someone broke into our home and he was here, he wouldn't cower behind me and expect me to fight off the intruders. As a man, that is his job not mine . He would feel the same way about war. ...

[Shooby]

Sorry, but I think most women would still expect their husband to stand in front of them and protect them. And, I would expect my sons to react in like manner. If that is sexist, so be it. Doesn't mean that my daughter and I can't shoot straight but I expect a man to have the instinct to do just that. If not, he can go live in some other woman's basement.

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2014 10:38:29 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jul 19, 2014 10:23:37 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

what exactly does being 'raised to act like a man' mean? 

what happens if someone breaks in and there's no man to protect you?

seriously, I find this attitude repulsive.  I'm guessing if you had sons, they wouldn't be allowed to do anything that wasn't 'manly'.

Meh, I'm ok wih some Internet stranger finding me repulsive :-)

We can agree to disagree. I don't have a son so I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure my husband would not be happy if his son sang show tunes and wanted to become a ballerina. But I have no way of knowing.

I do know that I would be devestated if my daughter turned out manly. I'm a girly girl and that is what I understand. Luckily she is a also a girly girl so I don't have to worry about it

and if you had a son that was gay I'm guessing he would have been kicked to the curb.

[Shooby]

Wow. What a rotten thing to say.

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2014 11:07:51 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Wow. What a rotten thing to say.

she specifically said that if she had a son that wanted to take ballet lessons and sing show tunes he DH most likely wouldn't have liked it.  it's a logical leap to what I stated.  she and her DH expect 'men to act like men'.  I suspect being gay doesn't fall into 'men acting like men'

and as you say, my opinion is my opinion.  if you don't like it I don't care

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 10:59:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Sorry, but I think most women would still expect their husband to stand in front of them and protect them. And, I would expect my sons to react in like manner. If that is sexist, so be it. Doesn't mean that my daughter and I can't shoot straight but I expect a man to have the instinct to do just that. If not, he can go live in some other woman's basement.

Exactly. My husband and I have traveled quite a bit over the years and on two different occasions we found ourselves in what we thought were dangerous situations (don't know if we actually were). My husband automatically stepped in front to shield me..his instinct took over and his instinct told him to protect his wife. All of you progressive thinkers can call me sexist but that is what I expect from a real man.

[The Captain]

Jul 19, 2014 10:59:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Sorry, but I think most women would still expect their husband to stand in front of them and protect them. And, I would expect my sons to react in like manner. If that is sexist, so be it. Doesn't mean that my daughter and I can't shoot straight but I expect a man to have the instinct to do just that. If not, he can go live in some other woman's basement.

Meh.  I'm over a foot shorter then DH.  I'll go for the knees and he can try for a head shot.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 11:05:00 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

Jul 19, 2014 10:38:29 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Meh, I'm ok wih some Internet stranger finding me repulsive :-)

We can agree to disagree. I don't have a son so I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure my husband would not be happy if his son sang show tunes and wanted to become a ballerina. But I have no way of knowing.

I do know that I would be devestated if my daughter turned out manly. I'm a girly girl and that is what I understand. Luckily she is a also a girly girl so I don't have to worry about it

and if you had a son that was gay I'm guessing he would have been kicked to the curb.

Not sure how you can jump from "not happy" to "kicked to the curb"...but since I know you get off on arguing for pages and pages over everything, I will just ignore you :-)

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2014 10:38:29 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I do know that I would be devestated if my daughter turned out manly. I'm a girly girl and that is what I understand. Luckily she is a also a girly girl so I don't have to worry about it

I admit I am puzzled by this.  By long standing traditional metrics, you are acting very manly in several broad spectrum areas.

A good chunk of behavior and the majority of your day is engaged in traditionally male only topics, by your choice.  Stuff that was viewed as the ruination of women and society.  

I guess I'm just perplexed at by the incongruity of claiming that you're a traditional girly girl woman, while clearly choosing to do traditionally "male" tasks for most of your day?  Of course it's practical, but so are many other traditionally "manly" things women choose to learn, like how to defend themselves or remove a tree blocking a road.  They add security when things go bad.  They're useful, just like working for pay.  That's all.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 11:19:13 GMT -5 @copperpouches said:

Jul 19, 2014 10:38:29 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I do know that I would be devestated if my daughter turned out manly. I'm a girly girl and that is what I understand. Luckily she is a also a girly girl so I don't have to worry about it

I admit I am puzzled by this.  By long standing traditional metrics, you are acting very manly in several broad spectrum areas.

A good chunk of behavior and the majority of your day is engaged in traditionally male only topics, by your choice.  Stuff that was viewed as the ruination of women of and society.  

I guess I'm just perplexed at by the incongruity of claiming that you're a traditional girly girl woman, while clearly choosing to do traditionally "male" tasks for most of your day?  Of course it's practical, but so are many other traditionally "manly" things women choose to learn, like how to defend themselves or remove a tree blocking a road.  They add security when things go bad.  They're useful, just like working for pay.  That's all.

I have no idea what "male tasks" I do all day long...yes, I'm a finance executive but even with that I have never bought I to the notion that I need to dress like a man to be successful. I have long hair, never leave home without my hair and make-up done and wear very feminine, flattering clothes to the office (you won't catch me dead in a mannish looking tailored suit).

I have no idea what I do that you consider to be manly work that I'm spending my day doing....unless you consider using your brain to be only men's work.....

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 10:43:44 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 19, 2014 10:39:11 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

My husband wouldn't do that. ...

How about you?

I have a lot of faith in my husbands ability to protect us.

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2014 11:26:43 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I have no idea what "male tasks" I do all day long...yes, I'm a finance executive but even with that I have never bought I to the notion that I need to dress like a man to be successful. I have long hair, never leave home without my hair and make-up done and wear very feminine, flattering clothes to the office (you won't catch me dead in a mannish looking tailored suit).

I have no idea what I do that you consider to be manly work that I'm spending my day doing....unless you consider using your brain to be only men's work.....

It was viewed that way traditionally.  Certainly being a finance executive was viewed as male only work.

I'm just not sure why being a finance executive is fine, despite being traditionally extremely "manly" but knowing how to handle small machines besides a sewing machine for practical purposes would be "devastating?"

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm honestly curious.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 11:32:39 GMT -5 @copperpouches said:

Jul 19, 2014 11:26:43 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I have no idea what "male tasks" I do all day long...yes, I'm a finance executive but even with that I have never bought I to the notion that I need to dress like a man to be successful. I have long hair, never leave home without my hair and make-up done and wear very feminine, flattering clothes to the office (you won't catch me dead in a mannish looking tailored suit).

I have no idea what I do that you consider to be manly work that I'm spending my day doing....unless you consider using your brain to be only men's work.....

It was viewed that way traditionally.  Certainly being a finance executive was viewed as male only work.

I'm just not sure why being a finance executive is fine, despite being traditionally extremely "manly" but knowing how to handle small machines besides a sewing machine for practical purposes would be "devastating?"

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm honestly curious.

I have no idea what you are talking about. You and are don't consider "manly" to be the same thing. I know many male finance executives who couldn't be further away from what I consider "manly".

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2014 11:36:28 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jul 19, 2014 11:32:39 GMT -5 @copperpouches said:

It was viewed that way traditionally.  Certainly being a finance executive was viewed as male only work.

I'm just not sure why being a finance executive is fine, despite being traditionally extremely "manly" but knowing how to handle small machines besides a sewing machine for practical purposes would be "devastating?"

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm honestly curious.

I have no idea what you are talking about. You and are don't consider "manly" to be the same thing. I know many male finance executives who couldn't be further away from what I consider "manly".

You would most likely be barred from your current occupation because of your gender in previous generations.  

Traditionally it is a very "man only" activity from what I gather; traditionally being a finance executive was definitely not a a place for girly girls.

That is why I am puzzled with your emphasis on gender roles based on tradition, but work in your capacity and shun the idea of women knowing how to use small machines like drills.  It feels a bit jumbled, since they're all just practical and useful things to know.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 11:48:22 GMT -5 @copperpouches said:

Jul 19, 2014 11:36:28 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I have no idea what you are talking about. You and are don't consider "manly" to be the same thing. I know many male finance executives who couldn't be further away from what I consider "manly".

You would most likely be barred from your current occupation because of your gender in previous generations.  

Traditionally it is a very "man only" activity from what I gather; traditionally being a finance executive was definitely not a a place for girly girls.

That is why I am puzzled with your emphasis on gender roles based on tradition, but work in your capacity and shun the idea of women knowing how to use small machines like drills.  It feels a bit jumbled, since they're all just practical and useful things to know.

I've never considered a job in finance to be manly. Manly would be a job that I had to wear dickies to work ?my opinion only). Generations ago, married women didn't work and now they do. I don't think that means that women are becoming manly. I probably wouldn't do well in a career that required work boots and a hard hat or worse, combat boots. I don't want my daughter to have a dangerous or manual labor type of job. To be fair, I wouldn't want that for a son, either...but if one had to do it I certainly wouldn't think it bible be my daughter. I have a very girly girl as a daughter. Maybe I would feel different if I had a butchy daughter and a son that sang show tunes...but I don't so I am going with what I "think" I would feel.

[morrisr2d2]

Eff gender stereotypes. Be proud of and confident in who you are, and who cares what everyone else thinks. Teach your kids the same.

Gender roles are now not as critical to human survival as they were throughout most of human existence. So the playing field between genders will continue to equalize, which in the short term will make some men come across as lacking, and some women as overachievers.

But we as humans should be thinking in terms of capabilities and not genitilia. I know slacker women and slacker men. I know men who can kick ass and women who can. And I know people who are driven in both sexes. I know fat slobs in both sexes. If your husband jumps in front of you to protect you it's not because he's the man it's because he's more capable of handling the situation. Or men shouldn't say they'd never hit a woman or child, they should say they'd they never assault someone less capable of defending themselves than them. I know maybe this is all very idealistic but we will see if the human race can get there one day.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 12:46:48 GMT -5 morrisr2d2 said:

Eff gender stereotypes. Be proud of and confident in who you are, and who cares what everyone else thinks. Teach your kids the same.

Gender roles are now not as critical to human survival as they were throughout most of human existence. So the playing field between genders will continue to equalize, which in the short term will make some men come across as lacking, and some women as overachievers.

But we as humans should be thinking in terms of capabilities and not genitilia. I know slacker women and slacker men. I know men who can kick ass and women who can. And I know people who are driven in both sexes. I know fat slobs in both sexes. If your husband jumps in front of you to protect you it's not because he's the man it's because he's more capable of handling the situation. Or men shouldn't say they'd never hit a woman or child, they should say they'd they never assault someone less capable of defending themselves than them. I know maybe this is all very idealistic but we will see if the human race can get there one day.

Fine...I won't say I want a manly man...I will say that I would only want to be with a guy who is more capable than me in dangerous situations :-)

[morrisr2d2]

Well let me amend my statement - when it comes to the bedroom have away at the gender stuff! God knows I want a manly man in the bedroom ;-)

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 13:07:24 GMT -5 morrisr2d2 said:

Well let me amend my statement - when it comes to the bedroom have away at the gender stuff! God knows I want a manly man in the bedroom ;-)

Lol!

[Green Eyed Lady]

I don't think there one thing wrong with wanting more "traditional" roles in a relationship.  If it's what you want, find someone who wants the same thing and go for it.  If it isn't or you don't care, fine.  One choice isn't superior to the other.  I would have been very happy with the sahm and the white picket fence thing.  It didn't work out that way for me.  It's probably a good thing because as Miss T said, no woman should HAVE to have someone support them.  If that is what you and your partner choose, tho, there is nothing wrong with it.  I am glad we have that choice...but so do men.

I used to be an athlete but when I wasn't on the field or the court, I was in a dress.  I like being a girly girl.  So what?  I like men who are MY version of men.  Doesn't mean it's for everyone, but that doesn't mean someone else is superior because they don't care if their husband wears their underwear.  I would.  So what?

[quince]

I don't wear make-up, I don't wear jewelry, I rarely wear skirts. I practice the same martial art my husband does, and we have similar hobbies otherwise. I get my ass up and do yard work and home maintenance at his side, and only "let" him do the heavy lifting alone when his upper body strength is a clear advantage. I know more about comic books than he does, and that's OK, because he knows more Monty Python skits by heart than I do. We both play video games(well, we did before we had a child...) and table top role-playing games, and enjoy science fiction and action movies. I proposed marriage to him, I kept my last name.

I am not manly.

My husband has nicer underwear than I do (men's underwear, but not the boxers and briefs that come in six packs), he gets his hair trimmed more often, he changes diapers, vacuums, soothes our son when he's fussy, cooks, cleans, has a less volatile temper and more nurturing nature than I do. He has more shoes than I do. He has more clothes than I do. He has a lower tolerance for a messy house than I do. 

He is not womanly.

I also do not think there is anything wrong with wanting "traditional" roles in a relationship. There is something wrong with dismissing people who don't, just as there is in dismissing people who do. There is something wrong with saying that men who are SAHPs are unmanly or a woman who prefers pantsuits to skirts is unwomanly.

It's also so, so easy to have baggage about this crap, probably because there's all sorts of "RIGHT WAY TO BE" that is drummed into our heads, and it's different every time someone else is doing the drumming.

My husband is the breadwinner, because he has higher earning potential. He would likely be the one defending the family physically, because he is the only black belt in the family (so far ).  I work part time and am the primary caregiver for our son. Hard to swallow for me, because I reject traditional gender roles...but the important part is that I reject doing things simply because they are traditional. I am all about doing the thing that works best for all parties involved.

[zibazinski]

Geez, DF always says he will hide behind me and load up my magazine because I'm a better shot than he is. Guess he better turn in his man card!

[NoNamePerson]

OMG, is there a "state" for men? Where is it? I have been on the prowl for one and if they are all holed up in one state I want to know where it is. Sounds like good pickin' maybe.

Ok back to the serious discussion   I was just trolling New Topics.....  

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 19, 2014 23:25:11 GMT -5 quince said:

I don't wear make-up, I don't wear jewelry, I rarely wear skirts. I practice the same martial art my husband does, and we have similar hobbies otherwise. I get my ass up and do yard work and home maintenance at his side, and only "let" him do the heavy lifting alone when his upper body strength is a clear advantage. I know more about comic books than he does, and that's OK, because he knows more Monty Python skits by heart than I do. We both play video games(well, we did before we had a child...) and table top role-playing games, and enjoy science fiction and action movies. I proposed marriage to him, I kept my last name.

I am not manly.

My husband has nicer underwear than I do (men's underwear, but not the boxers and briefs that come in six packs), he gets his hair trimmed more often, he changes diapers, vacuums, soothes our son when he's fussy, cooks, cleans, has a less volatile temper and more nurturing nature than I do. He has more shoes than I do. He has more clothes than I do. He has a lower tolerance for a messy house than I do. 

He is not womanly.

I also do not think there is anything wrong with wanting "traditional" roles in a relationship. There is something wrong with dismissing people who don't, just as there is in dismissing people who do. There is something wrong with saying that men who are SAHPs are unmanly or a woman who prefers pantsuits to skirts is unwomanly.

It's also so, so easy to have baggage about this crap, probably because there's all sorts of "RIGHT WAY TO BE" that is drummed into our heads, and it's different every time someone else is doing the drumming.

My husband is the breadwinner, because he has higher earning potential. He would likely be the one defending the family physically, because he is the only black belt in the family (so far ).  I work part time and am the primary caregiver for our son. Hard to swallow for me, because I reject traditional gender roles...but the important part is that I reject doing things simply because they are traditional. I am all about doing the thing that works best for all parties involved.

Defensive posts like this I don't get. Again, we were asked an opinion and we all gave one. My opinion doesn't mean that I am dismissive of anyone else that is different. It means that I would be attracted to guys that some of you wouldn't be. It means that a guy that would expect me to do what I consider "mans work" wouldn't be attracted to me.