vonna
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Post by vonna on Jul 18, 2014 13:33:47 GMT -5
I don't think men (in general) are any more lacking than women (in general).
But, my personal perspective is quite positive! I'm very happy with the men in my life!!
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 18, 2014 13:37:16 GMT -5
Or maybe manhood would have been the better word. Anyway, my question is: do you feel men today in general are lacking?
(that is purposely a very broad subject, I didn't want to narrow it down to financially, emotionally, etc - wanted posters to feel free to talk about anything that came to mind) You didn't really mean that, didya? After all, I hear your manhood lacks for nothing. But seriously, I think in some sectors, it's a matter of men who are fathers versus men who are sperm donors. Too many baby daddies do the deed and walk away, and not play any role in the lives of their children. Do kids really need a two-parent, typical-mom-and-pop household to thrive? Probably not, assuming the remaining parent/authority figure(s) are strong, healthy people, capable of loving and nurturing them and giving them at least life's basics. I'm thinking it's the fathers who lose out on seeing what their children become, more than the other way around, sometimes.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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So well rounded, I'm pointless...
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jul 18, 2014 13:42:22 GMT -5
In my area, I've seen an increase in "men" who do nothing and mooch off others. I don't know if it is just the people I know, or our area, or what. But we seem to have a lot of "men" (males in their 20s-30s) who are too lazy to do anything/get a job/etc. They float from parents to girlfriends to whoever will pay for them to "live". It is pathetic..
Growing up, all the men I knew (father, uncles, neighbors, etc) were hard workers and did everything they could do to provide a better life for their children and families. Now, it seems like the males the same age just want to play all day and use whoever will let them play all day...
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Jul 18, 2014 13:45:47 GMT -5
Showers, haircuts and a shave.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 13:51:39 GMT -5
I don't feel men are lacking.
I get the feeling we are rewriting 'manhood' in some ways, but I guess historically that isn't an unusual occurrence... what is considerd 'acceptable' for women and men is probably always evolving.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 18, 2014 13:53:23 GMT -5
I have a lot of observations but will not post anything as it will get misconstrued.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 18, 2014 13:56:28 GMT -5
Men are doing more now, then they have done in the recent history. Men are not just the breadwinner who come home to a dinner on the table, a wife with a drink her hand and then retreat to the study to read the newspaper. Men take care of kids, cook dinner, run errands, make a living, clean, take kids to soccer, etc, etc, etc.... Men are moving in the right direction.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 18, 2014 14:07:05 GMT -5
Men are doing more now, then they have done in the recent history. Men are not just the breadwinner who come home to a dinner on the table, a wife with a drink her hand and then retreat to the study to read the newspaper. Men take care of kids, cook dinner, run errands, make a living, clean, take kids to soccer, etc, etc, etc.... Men are moving in the right direction. Mrs. Archie's been beating you with a broom again, I see.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 18, 2014 14:10:35 GMT -5
Growing up, all the men I knew (father, uncles, neighbors, etc) were hard workers and did everything they could do to provide a better life for their children and families. Now, it seems like the males the same age just want to play all day and use whoever will let them play all day... Both DH and I grew up in a family with a SAHM and a dad that worked. Alot. To provide. There's a cost to that, though. DH remarked to me that when he was 10, his dad was too tired to play catch after work. And, that DH has made the choice to let the dishes/laundry/whatever sit a little longer so that he and DS can go out and throw the ball around. DH figures he's played more catch with DS this summer than DH and his dad did for DH's childhood. My dad worked a lot as well. He often fell asleep by 8ish at night. I don't have a relationship with my dad, for lots of reasons. A large part of it is that he saw his job as working to put a roof over our heads. And that's where his job ended. My parents still stick to the belief that a man's worth lies solely in his paycheck. Needless to say, it's caused a little friction. My dad also wasn't very keen on socially accepting gays, either. I am thankful that we live in a time where roles are evolving.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jul 18, 2014 14:16:22 GMT -5
I think all my friends are pretty solid...good fathers, good providers, good natured, etc. My wife works so I think we pretty much share responsibility right down the middle when it comes to cooking, cleaning, shopping, household stuff, and taking care of the kids.
The one area where men fall short is probably taking care of themselves. I was my lightest in college, ballooned up within 5 years of marriage, and now am pretty close to my ideal weight. When I was younger, it was more about vanity and now I'm concerned with health because I have kids.
Women, at least the ones that I know, seem to actually look better as they age. They actually were chubbier in college and then really started to hit their stride in their 30's...better hair, in better shape, better clothes, etc.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Jul 18, 2014 14:23:00 GMT -5
I don't necessarily feel they are lacking. It is me. I just don't want to be bothered with them.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 18, 2014 14:28:09 GMT -5
Men are doing more now, then they have done in the recent history. Men are not just the breadwinner who come home to a dinner on the table, a wife with a drink her hand and then retreat to the study to read the newspaper. Men take care of kids, cook dinner, run errands, make a living, clean, take kids to soccer, etc, etc, etc.... Men are moving in the right direction. Mrs. Archie's been beating you with a broom again, I see. Nah. Just my maternal side showing through.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 14:29:44 GMT -5
There are still a few real men out there, but they are an endangered breed.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 18, 2014 14:32:05 GMT -5
In my area, DD's old daycare center used to have the kids do a cute craft to give their mom for mother's day.
After a few years of never getting anything for father's day DH finally asked the director why not?
Her response "Too many kids here don't have a dad in their lives, and it's too painful to remind them of that".
You make of it what you will.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 18, 2014 14:39:47 GMT -5
Mrs. Archie's been beating you with a broom again, I see. Nah. Just my maternal side showing through. Is that the newest rug rat? Holy Hair Club for Men, that tyke has quite a 'do!
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 18, 2014 15:06:33 GMT -5
Or maybe manhood would have been the better word. Anyway, my question is: do you feel men today in general are lacking?
(that is purposely a very broad subject, I didn't want to narrow it down to financially, emotionally, etc - wanted posters to feel free to talk about anything that came to mind) Lack of pride in meeting expectations. Young adults aren't expected to support themselves first off they are to borrow money, stay in school and let parents have them live in the basement until they are 25, use parents insurance until 26 so almost a decade of man child or girl child not self supporting adults. We old people were raised to take pride in roles, women were to keep a clean house and raise kids and cook. A "real man" would support his family, hunt, fish and protect his family and country. If he did house work or child rearing it was to "help" his wife and cooking was only grilling or if he enjoyed cooking. If you visited a dirty house the wife was embarrassed not him and if they were poor he was embarrassed not her. He wouldn't have ever done his daughter's hair or sewed on a button. If she had to take a job he would have felt like a failure for not being able to support his family. When a young couple marries now they don't always agree on roles, they might think each should earn half a living and each should do half the housework, cooking and child raising so if they can push more to the spouse they don't lose any pride. If the house is dirty when company comes nobody is to blame because everybody should have cleaned, when they are poor it isn't entirely anyone person's fault.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 15:20:21 GMT -5
I am old, cynical mamma, who was never much into infants at all, bar my own... but I think my uterus just contracted at that cheeky smiled tot cuddled up to his daddy... very cute!
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 18, 2014 15:23:06 GMT -5
Such a cutie archie!
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 18, 2014 15:24:15 GMT -5
Good grief that little one looks like his daddy.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 18, 2014 15:29:13 GMT -5
Or maybe manhood would have been the better word. Anyway, my question is: do you feel men today in general are lacking?
(that is purposely a very broad subject, I didn't want to narrow it down to financially, emotionally, etc - wanted posters to feel free to talk about anything that came to mind) Lack of pride in meeting expectations. Young adults aren't expected to support themselves first off they are to borrow money, stay in school and let parents have them live in the basement until they are 25, use parents insurance until 26 so almost a decade of man child or girl child not self supporting adults. We old people were raised to take pride in roles, women were to keep a clean house and raise kids and cook. A "real man" would support his family, hunt, fish and protect his family and country. If he did house work or child rearing it was to "help" his wife and cooking was only grilling or if he enjoyed cooking. If you visited a dirty house the wife was embarrassed not him and if they were poor he was embarrassed not her. He wouldn't have ever done his daughter's hair or sewed on a button. If she had to take a job he would have felt like a failure for not being able to support his family. When a young couple marries now they don't always agree on roles, they might think each should earn half a living and each should do half the housework, cooking and child raising so if they can push more to the spouse they don't lose any pride. If the house is dirty when company comes nobody is to blame because everybody should have cleaned, when they are poor it isn't entirely anyone person's fault.
Oh lordy lordy, where do I start?
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 18, 2014 15:51:34 GMT -5
Wait, I'll join you....as soon as my caveman hubby stops dragging me around by my hair. What a doofus. Always expecting me to hunt the yak, shoot the yak, bring home the yak, clean and cook the yak, all while keeping this hole in the stone wall spotless and still look good in the latest bearskin mini.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 18, 2014 16:01:28 GMT -5
Wait, I'll join you....as soon as my caveman hubby stops dragging me around by my hair. What a doofus. Always expecting me to hunt the yak, shoot the yak, bring home the yak, clean and cook the yak, all while keeping this hole in the stone wall spotless and still look good in the latest bearskin mini.
Exactly. I decided against spending energy to swim through Cliché Channel to get to Stereotype Lake
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 16:03:47 GMT -5
The fact that we have basically re-written childhood/what is educationally relevant/ what is acceptable human behavior in ways that generally reflect less kindly on general boy/male tendencies and attributes doesn't help any at all.
We medicate children who by nature are less capable of sitting still, read later, move more, multitask less... ie. we medicate more boys, tell more boys they are defective.
We focus more on literature and writing based competencies, which are generally more male... while we value science and math, most 'extra' programming is to get GIRLS into those fields.
We abhor violence, in all its implied forms... so again boys are reprimanded and medicated more because they tend more towards guns and roughhousing, etc.
I don't think its a single mom thing at all. I think its a societal thing.
And I think men, by and large, are navigating what is being asked of them well. But I do think in some cases we are doing them a disservice.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 18, 2014 16:05:58 GMT -5
Wait, I'll join you....as soon as my caveman hubby stops dragging me around by my hair. What a doofus. Always expecting me to hunt the yak, shoot the yak, bring home the yak, clean and cook the yak, all while keeping this hole in the stone wall spotless and still look good in the latest bearskin mini.
Exactly. I decided against spending energy to swim through Cliché Channel to get to Stereotype Lake
That reminds me. I have swim practice tomorrow and need to refill my gear bag. Thanks for that memo.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 18, 2014 16:12:53 GMT -5
Being a dude these days kind of blows to be honest. Life seems a lot more complicated. I hear from women fairly often, although it could be because I live in a hippy area of California, that men have it made. However, I'm still expected to be able to fix anything that breaks, be it advanced electronics, or a leaky pipe. I'm supposed to bring home the majority of our income. I'm supposed to be involved with the kids, coach their sports teams, take them to culturally enriching places on the weekends, etc. I'm supposed to do half the house work. I'm supposed to make my wife feel special and let her know how appreciated she is. I'm supposed to be reliable, hard working, dependable, but still spontaneous and fun. Honestly, there aren't enough hours in the week to meet all the expectations.
If I commute for work, and put in extra hours to meet the extra money part I get shit for not spending enough time with the kids or helping enough at the house. If I take a lower paying job with fewer hours so I can be superdad at home, I'm a failure for not making enough money. You pretty much can't win.
Societal expectations for women are that they maintain the house and do the majority of the child raising, if they choose too. Otherwise that's split 50/50. They're supposed to help bring in household income, if they choose too, otherwise they can focus on being a mother and the guy needs to support everyone financially. They can focus entirely on their career and put in crazy hours, if they choose too, and the guy needs to suck it up and support his wife who's a trailblazer, trying to break the glass ceiling, excelling in a male dominated society, etc., etc. It's probably a grass is greener thing, but as a white guy I honestly don't feel like the advantages are as great as women think they are.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 18, 2014 16:19:01 GMT -5
We medicate children who by nature are less capable of sitting still, read later, move more, multitask less... ie. we medicate more boys, tell more boys they are defective. One of the reasons I agreed to private school is just for this. My kids have three recesses a day from kindy to 3rd grade. In 4rd grade it goes down to two recesses a day. I think in second grade, but I know for sure in 3rd grade, the teacher had balance balls for the kids to sit on while they did writing/reading, ie quieter activities. I'm always curious as to why people red shirt their kindy kids. One reason often cited is "my kid can't sit still." In our kindy classes, the kids are expected to sit still for 5-10 minutes, max. They may be at a center for a half hour, doing three tasks, but the tasks take 5-10 minutes. The kids need to move around to get supplies, put their work in in their cubby, etc. It makes me wonder how long kids in the public schools are expected to sit. I suspect my DS has a touch of ADHD (or some variant of it.) I think I do too. But it's all manageable through behavior modification. I took a gamble that our private school would not immediately suggest medication and IEPs, because they aren't equipped to handle such things. So far, so good.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jul 18, 2014 17:50:20 GMT -5
We medicate children who by nature are less capable of sitting still, read later, move more, multitask less... ie. we medicate more boys, tell more boys they are defective. One of the reasons I agreed to private school is just for this. My kids have three recesses a day from kindy to 3rd grade. In 4rd grade it goes down to two recesses a day. I think in second grade, but I know for sure in 3rd grade, the teacher had balance balls for the kids to sit on while they did writing/reading, ie quieter activities. I'm always curious as to why people red shirt their kindy kids. One reason often cited is "my kid can't sit still." In our kindy classes, the kids are expected to sit still for 5-10 minutes, max. They may be at a center for a half hour, doing three tasks, but the tasks take 5-10 minutes. The kids need to move around to get supplies, put their work in in their cubby, etc. It makes me wonder how long kids in the public schools are expected to sit. I suspect my DS has a touch of ADHD (or some variant of it.) I think I do too. But it's all manageable through behavior modification. I took a gamble that our private school would not immediately suggest medication and IEPs, because they aren't equipped to handle such things. So far, so good. Our public school has recess 3x/day and PE 2x/wk (K-5). I had no idea other schools had so little physical activity. Personally, one reason we don't watch TV (other than a few streamed shows) is that I *detest* the way men are portrayed on TV shows/commercials. Nearly universally, they are idiotic, clueless neanderthals who would be unable to function in society without their beautiful, savvy wives. There's no way I wanted my DS to grow up surrounded by that message. The kids and I are listening to "Little House on the Prairie" and one thing that has stood out to me was how respectful/caring the husband/wife were to each other. Heck, the whole family was so respectful and caring. Both the husband and wife worked hard to take care of things, and they really treasured each other's partnership. It was shocking because you just never see that anymore in entertainment.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Jul 18, 2014 17:51:24 GMT -5
Being a dude these days kind of blows to be honest. Life seems a lot more complicated. I hear from women fairly often, although it could be because I live in a hippy area of California, that men have it made. However, I'm still expected to be able to fix anything that breaks, be it advanced electronics, or a leaky pipe. I'm supposed to bring home the majority of our income. I'm supposed to be involved with the kids, coach their sports teams, take them to culturally enriching places on the weekends, etc. I'm supposed to do half the house work. I'm supposed to make my wife feel special and let her know how appreciated she is. I'm supposed to be reliable, hard working, dependable, but still spontaneous and fun. Honestly, there aren't enough hours in the week to meet all the expectations. If I commute for work, and put in extra hours to meet the extra money part I get shit for not spending enough time with the kids or helping enough at the house. If I take a lower paying job with fewer hours so I can be superdad at home, I'm a failure for not making enough money. You pretty much can't win. Societal expectations for women are that they maintain the house and do the majority of the child raising, if they choose too. Otherwise that's split 50/50. They're supposed to help bring in household income, if they choose too, otherwise they can focus on being a mother and the guy needs to support everyone financially. They can focus entirely on their career and put in crazy hours, if they choose too, and the guy needs to suck it up and support his wife who's a trailblazer, trying to break the glass ceiling, excelling in a male dominated society, etc., etc. It's probably a grass is greener thing, but as a white guy I honestly don't feel like the advantages are as great as women think they are. Interesting. I think a lot of it is just pressure we put on ourselves. No kids yet, and my career isn't smashing, so I feel like I'm failing at womanhood. Since traditional roles have broken up, there is just this expectation that everyone should be able to do everything. Which, technically you can, just not all at once. I suppose it's just a matter of finding a balance with the other half and tuning out all of the other noise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 18:04:55 GMT -5
The fact that we have basically re-written childhood/what is educationally relevant/ what is acceptable human behavior in ways that generally reflect less kindly on general boy/male tendencies and attributes doesn't help any at all. We medicate children who by nature are less capable of sitting still, read later, move more, multitask less... ie. we medicate more boys, tell more boys they are defective. We focus more on literature and writing based competencies, which are generally more male... while we value science and math, most 'extra' programming is to get GIRLS into those fields. We abhor violence, in all its implied forms... so again boys are reprimanded and medicated more because they tend more towards guns and roughhousing, etc. I don't think its a single mom thing at all. I think its a societal thing. And I think men, by and large, are navigating what is being asked of them well. But I do think in some cases we are doing them a disservice. I agree with a lot of this. Especially the part about medicating boys that are just doing what tends to be natural for boys. I had to deal with that mindset when my son first started school. He was simply a bundle of energy that had a hard time sitting still. Even if he was sitting still, it wasn't still because he would fidget. Not enough to be disruptive or stop him from paying attention to his teacher, but I was still suppose to do something about it. It was suggested many times that I have him tested for ADHD, but he didn't have problems paying attention, he had a problem being a statue while he paid attention. I was the one that worried about him not learning to read as early as his sister did, but his teacher assured me there was nothing wrong with him in that aspect, he wasn't "behind". I do think we've started giving males mixed messages about what's ok and what's not, and what's expected of them.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 18, 2014 18:16:05 GMT -5
The fact that we have basically re-written childhood/what is educationally relevant/ what is acceptable human behavior in ways that generally reflect less kindly on general boy/male tendencies and attributes doesn't help any at all. We medicate children who by nature are less capable of sitting still, read later, move more, multitask less... ie. we medicate more boys, tell more boys they are defective. We focus more on literature and writing based competencies, which are generally more male... while we value science and math, most 'extra' programming is to get GIRLS into those fields. We abhor violence, in all its implied forms... so again boys are reprimanded and medicated more because they tend more towards guns and roughhousing, etc. I don't think its a single mom thing at all. I think its a societal thing. And I think men, by and large, are navigating what is being asked of them well. But I do think in some cases we are doing them a disservice. I disagree with some of this. Aggressivness has never been more encouraged in boys, sports - especially football, has never been more popular then it is today. Look at HS football and tell me we don't encourage boys to be violent. As far as to how much "we" medicate anyone - I didn't realize this decision was removed from the parents - tell me - who is this "society" that is pumping pills down kid's throats?. Are kids today honestly more "troubled" or is it that the parents don't have the time or energy to work on the situation. Not digging on anyone, but seriously - why the huge increase in #'s of kids on drugs? For decades if not centuries boys/men got the lions' share of resources, opportunities, and teacher's attention. Now that the scales are almost even suddenly they can't function on an even playing field? How exactly is that a disservice compared to the societal shifts women have been asked to navigate? I would suggest women have been asked to navigate an even greater shift in society. But our viewpoints are likely very different, I have a daughter, I believe you have a son (don't know if you have a girl/girls). We both likely are more empathetic toward the changes our child will have to navigate.
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