Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jul 7, 2014 14:19:20 GMT -5
Off tskeeter's list the only thing I've dealt with is the orthodontist appointments. (2 more payments and than I own those $6000 braces out right ) we all have straight teeth and clear skin Lucky! I cost my dad a lot in orthodontics; I cost myself at the dermatologist!
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 7, 2014 14:27:16 GMT -5
you and me both! He has another appointment tomorrow- I'm not holding out much hope that they will give me any updates. They usually shrug their shoulders and tell me "we hope to have a better idea next month". It's annoying but it's a flat fee situation so it doesn't cost me a penny more to have them on 6 months longer.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 7, 2014 14:32:49 GMT -5
I thinnk, for those of us who are childless (not by choice), there could be different answers on different days. Some days, I feel like I am missing out on a lot. Other days, I see the behavior of some of these kids out there and think to myself that the only thing I'm missing out on by not having kids is a prison term, because I'd knock a kid of mine upside the head for behaving like that.
Different days...different feelings. Certainly some days are feelings of loss and sadness. Others? Not so much.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 7, 2014 15:02:55 GMT -5
I thinnk, for those of us who are childless (not by choice), there could be different answers on different days. Some days, I feel like I am missing out on a lot. Other days, I see the behavior of some of these kids out there and think to myself that the only thing I'm missing out on by not having kids is a prison term, because I'd knock a kid of mine upside the head for behaving like that. Different days...different feelings. Certainly some days are feelings of loss and sadness. Others? Not so much. And depending on "your" mood of the day I can commiserate. A long time ago it looked like I would be part of this involuntary offspring-less group While I have 2 sons, I am once again childless (at 36 and 32 I can hardly call them children anymore). To add to SS comment on "older mother" -> I will be an older mother for exactly 7 more years. Unless DS2 gets smart and realizes that you just need to start stop counting he will be older than I am by that time I do not believe there is a selfishness factor (as defined by Shooby) in the decision to have or not have children it is a personal choice. However, if this was posted on YM and not YMOT, you could argue that not having children is a selfish decision, IF AND ONLY IF, you end up taking any social security which comes your way. SocSec is a "pay-as-we-go system so today's children will be paying for our SocSec and if you don't have kids you are not contributing to the future "kitty". But all kidding aside, I do feel for the involuntary child(less) people. If you can't have the children you wanted that's tough; if you have kids that you didn't necessarily want and you feel deprived because of that that's tough too. However, if you do have them you better do right by them. And why doesn't my spell-check ever want to work?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 7, 2014 15:09:16 GMT -5
Do you feel sorry for people that don't have kids?
Do you think they are missing out on something?
I think that your thread is inappropriately titled. Child free means people who don't have children, don't want children and have actively spent their life avoiding children (up to and including fighting healthcare professional for permanent sterilization). This thread would be more appropriately titled "Child-less people".
Within this category, you get child-free people, people who do not want children, have never wanted children. This group of people would not marry someone, or have a relationship with someone who does. Wanting children is a deal breaker for them.
Next you have a group of people who are ambivalent about children. If someone wanted children, they would have them for this person. Preventing pregnancy is not quite so imperative, as they are on the fence and will have children if things change. One of my friends is like this. She did not want children and was almost 40 when she got married. Not long after, the mail order pharmacy delayed her shipment of BCPs. She and her husband decided to use 'fate' as a factor. If she got pregnant, then it was meant to happen. She got pregnant and has a daughter she adores. She's an excellent mother, but she said she would have been equally happy without.
Finally, you have a group of people who desperately want children but cannot for one reason or another. Whether it is genetically a lousy idea (one friend was engaged to a guy whose dad had Huntington's disease. She refused to play that lottery and does not have children), or they can't get pregnant, or they never met someone that they wanted to have kids with.
So for people who don't have children, which group you ask your question will define what sort of answers you get. I fall in the first group, never wanted children (I told my mom this when I was 13) and it has never wavered. I'm not sorry, I don't regret anything and I don't feel like I am missing something.
Can you miss something that you never wanted in the first place?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 7, 2014 15:13:46 GMT -5
My bio clock never ticked and I never felt any urge to have a child It was totally an accident. The next one was planned
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 7, 2014 15:14:06 GMT -5
I am not the one railing against it either way. I said why does it need to be qualified one way or the other? Soooo, try reading, lol. But your statement is NOT then self serving as well? Maybe you need to Think About it Too! But you have been - since page 1. You can't imagine life without kids - you can't imagine why childless couples choose not to have kids.
You think that childless couples are selfish for thinking only of themselves and the lack of desire to spend 20+ years raising/dealing with kids 24/7 - and having the freedom to do what they want - WHEN they want.
You also said that the 'biological clock' starts screaming and anyone without kids will regret it once it's too late. You said that not wanting to have children was abnormal.
.You arent even twisting her words anymore. You're basically lying in this entire post. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 15:41:09 GMT -5
I don't give up something I want in order to get or do something else or to help someone. Sometimes what I want the most, however, is to do something else or to help someone. Ie. Sacrifice means I really want A, my priority is A, but I do B because of someone else's needs or wants. Choice means, I'd like A, but B is important to someone else's needs/wants. My priority at the moment is B's needs/wants. They happen to be more important to me at the moment than A, So I choose B. I'm still doing what is most important to me, it's just that that isn't necessarily me at the moment. You kinda confused me with the A's and B's, but I think we have the same sentiment and just expressed it differently. When you explain what you mean, I agree with you. I think I do........ if I got those A's and B's right.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 7, 2014 16:05:34 GMT -5
Next you have a group of people who are ambivalent about children. If someone wanted children, they would have them for this person That's me. I never really thought about having children until DH expressed the desire to have them. Then I had to be honest, the first answer that popped into my head was I didn't want kids. I would have been fine with it if DH hadn't wanted kids, I've never been the type of person who "lived to become a mother". Heck I didn't even plan on ever getting married until DH entered into my life. I ended up coming around and we had Gwen. I was pretty firmly in the one and done camp but started to waffle. DH asked me last summer to make up my mind either way because he was turning 40 and didn't want to wait around for me to make up my mind, he was ready to be done. I came around on that one as well, which rocked people in RL and over on WIR considering my previous stance on the subject. I don't think I would have been "missing out" if I'd never had kids, life would have gone on just fine in a different manner. However I did change my mind and don't regret it (most days ) but I am not able to say it is "better" or that I feel sorry for people who don't have them. DH is different his life is "complete" with kids. He's always wanted children so for him to have never had them would have left him with a large hole in his life. He wasn't entirely onboard with just one kid but said it was my decision since it was my body. He's stoked I agreed to have another one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 16:15:01 GMT -5
Yes Pink, it's usually semantics when I'm disagreeing with people about 'sacrifice'
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jul 7, 2014 16:33:05 GMT -5
I'm sure we missed out on: Appointments with the orthodontist. And the dermatologist. Being invited to school for a conference with the Principle. Probably several times. Late nights sitting up long past curfew. Guarding the liquor at parties. Fenders torn off cars. A call or two from the police. Unplanned teeenaged pregnancy. I'm pretty sure I'm OK with missing these experiences. I've only experienced two on this list. I've experienced everything on this list and a few more that I won't detail but did involve the law! Thankfully, all 3 kids are healthy, fully functioning, self-supporting adults.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 7, 2014 16:42:43 GMT -5
I'm sure we missed out on: Appointments with the orthodontist. And the dermatologist. Being invited to school for a conference with the Principle. Probably several times. Late nights sitting up long past curfew. Guarding the liquor at parties. Fenders torn off cars. A call or two from the police. Unplanned teeenaged pregnancy. I'm pretty sure I'm OK with missing these experiences. I've only experienced two on this list. Your kids did well. This list, with the exception of the pregnancy, was compiled from the experiences of my four siblings and me. No wonder the folks ended up with gray hair and worry lines.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jul 7, 2014 16:51:43 GMT -5
Rukh, I think you're pretty safe at this point! Your DD sounds like she's focused on other, better things. Good luck, though!
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midwestlily
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Post by midwestlily on Jul 7, 2014 17:15:18 GMT -5
So for people who don't have children, which group you ask your question will define what sort of answers you get. I fall in the first group, never wanted children (I told my mom this when I was 13) and it has never wavered. I'm not sorry, I don't regret anything and I don't feel like I am missing something. Can you miss something that you never wanted in the first place? That's exactly what happened to me, I was 13 when I decided/realized that I didn't want children. 44 years later, I have no regrets. I'd like to think that, if I'd been born in a time when it wasn't a choice, I would have been a competent mother. Not sure I could have done much better than that. Also aware that, if EVERYBODY felt the way I do, it would be a huge problem.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 7, 2014 18:09:40 GMT -5
Not having children was an easy decision for me. The bottom line is that I don't want to be responsible for another person. Being a parent is a HUGE job and an extremely important one. I don't want that kind of responsibility. There have been MANY times in my life when I was so happy I didn't have children because it was enough of a job for me just to look out for myself. I am happy for people who want to take on that kind of challenge but I just don't. I have a different American Dream. I NEVER had any desire for the white picket fence, 2 kids and a dog. Okay, I might take the dog . My dream is ... a deluxe apartment in the sky
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 7, 2014 18:17:38 GMT -5
I always knew I didnt want children. Everyone told me I would change my mind eventually, but I never did, and I doubt I ever will (I'm 34 now). I don't think I'm missing anything. I have a great time with my nieces and nephews and friends kids, but I am not the most attentive person in the world, and I dont think I would be a very good parent. Plus I take Paxil, and I would be a nightmare to deal with pregnant, since I wouldnt be able to take it for 9+ mos. DH went through a phase for a few months where he wanted kids, and then he got over it and moved on to another thing....now its wanting to move to Trinidad and Tobago ! As you can see, we both suffer from adult ADD. Shit, we would be the kind of people to forget we had kids and leave one at Walmart or something! I think we are doing the world a service by NOT procreating.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jul 7, 2014 19:43:29 GMT -5
I love my kids. I think other peoples kids are ookey.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 7, 2014 19:48:34 GMT -5
Yes, he knows he can be tested. But he does not want to know if he is going to get the disease in the future. His dad has it and he was young enough that at this point of his life he is not showing symptoms.
I don't agree with this, I would want to know. My friend was his fiancée and she was not going to have kids unless he was tested because she did not want to transmit the gene to their child. He refused to be tested, so they were at a stalemate.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jul 7, 2014 19:53:23 GMT -5
I'm like drama. I had one because DH really wanted kids. I was ambivalence. The second was am oops.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Jul 7, 2014 20:16:02 GMT -5
Do you feel sorry for people that don't have kids? Do you think they are missing out on something? I'm sure we missed out on: Appointments with the orthodontist. And the dermatologist. Being invited to school for a conference with the Principle. Probably several times. Late nights sitting up long past curfew. Guarding the liquor at parties. Fenders torn off cars. A call or two from the police. Unplanned teeenaged pregnancy. I'm pretty sure I'm OK with missing these experiences. I have a friend whose 2 kids managed to total 3 vehicles in a 1 month period. Needless to say the kids are now riding their bikes everywhere and spending lots of quality time with mom and dad.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 7, 2014 20:17:52 GMT -5
I'm like drama. I had one because DH really wanted kids. I was ambivalence. The second was am oops. Same here, but no second yet. I'm glad I did. DD is pretty great. Even not sleeping more than 3 hours a night for 7+ months seems OK. But I liked not having kids, too.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jul 7, 2014 20:25:28 GMT -5
This is the point I was going to make this morning. To a degree, it is of course selfishly motivated. If any of your reasons for having children are: 1. I wanted kids 2. I always imagined myself as a mother (parent) 3. I couldn't imagine my life without children
or anything similar, then it is (to a degree) selfish. That is not a bad thing. It just is. I can think of only one situation where it would be considered altruistic. The case of someone getting pregnant, knowing that they cannot keep or care for the baby, having it anyway, and giving it up for adoption. In that case, they are putting themselves through a difficult ordeal for no real benefit to self. They can certainly be said to be acting in the best interest of the child, in giving it not only life but a better situation. And they are undoubtedly acting in the best interests of the (possibly unknown at that point) family who will ultimately be blessed by the decision.
Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a child for whatever reason works for you. The only crime is in NOT wanting a child and having one anyway that you then refuse to care for.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 8, 2014 0:00:22 GMT -5
This is the point I was going to make this morning. To a degree, it is of course selfishly motivated. If any of your reasons for having children are: 1. I wanted kids 2. I always imagined myself as a mother (parent) 3. I couldn't imagine my life without children And can't the same be said for those who decided to remain child-free?
We all have our reasons - if someone wants children, more power to them - if it's not in their future due to a personal choice, medical reason, etc, then that's also their choice.
I don't understand why this is even a debate. Some are naturally drawn to being parents - others aren't - and others CAN'T.
As I stated a couple times before, it's a PERSONAL choice - or sometimes a choice that is based on medical issues (problems conceiving) - each individual makes their path in life - if it's to have babies, and raise them - then that's one choice - if it's to remain childless, then that's also another choice.
Neither is right or wrong - you choose what is right for you and where you envision your future.
I'm tired of people debating that one is right and the other is wrong. We all make choices in all aspects of life - this is one of them. We all choose what suits our lifestyle. I don't envy or criticize people for their choices and I expect the same respect.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jul 8, 2014 0:23:59 GMT -5
First, I absolutely agree that it is a personal choice and whichever someone chooses (AS their personal choice) is perfectly valid for them. But at the same time, I don't consider it the same. The choice to not have children could come from different places. If one chooses not to have children because they do not believe they can properly raise them, that is not selfish at all. It is a mature response to one's limitations. If instead they just don't want to be bothered, then yes, it could be said that the motives are selfish in nature. But again, neither choice REQUIRES justification. And in particular, the negative choice to not act certainly does not require a reason. The choice is valid either way, and the motivation behind it is nobody else's business.
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Jul 8, 2014 3:55:04 GMT -5
Do you feel sorry for people that don't have kids? Do you think they are missing out on something? If it was their choice why would I? Now I know someone who wanted to and can't because they were screwed ovet by our wonderful administration. Them I feel bad for.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 8, 2014 5:10:51 GMT -5
This is the point I was going to make this morning. To a degree, it is of course selfishly motivated. If any of your reasons for having children are: 1. I wanted kids 2. I always imagined myself as a mother (parent) 3. I couldn't imagine my life without children And can't the same be said for those who decided to remain child-free?
We all have our reasons - if someone wants children, more power to them - if it's not in their future due to a personal choice, medical reason, etc, then that's also their choice.
I don't understand why this is even a debate. Some are naturally drawn to being parents - others aren't - and others CAN'T.
As I stated a couple times before, it's a PERSONAL choice - or sometimes a choice that is based on medical issues (problems conceiving) - each individual makes their path in life - if it's to have babies, and raise them - then that's one choice - if it's to remain childless, then that's also another choice.
Neither is right or wrong - you choose what is right for you and where you envision your future.
I'm tired of people debating that one is right and the other is wrong. We all make choices in all aspects of life - this is one of them. We all choose what suits our lifestyle. I don't envy or criticize people for their choices and I expect the same respect. If you are tired about people debating this issue why would you open the thread? You don't get to decide what others talk about. If it annoys you, avoid the conversation
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 8, 2014 10:21:02 GMT -5
That is very sad. I hate to hear about long time friendships ending over things such as that. I have a friend who completely dumped everyone in her life who didn't have children after she had a kid. She and her husband only associate with other people who have kids. It was very sad for me when this happened but it appears I was not the only one (which did make me feel a little better). I still miss my friend though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 10:55:38 GMT -5
I don't feel sorry for people that are either child free or child less. We don't get everything we want in life. That's how it goes. Grown ups accept that and make alternative plans and enjoy what they do have. I don't feel sorry for anyone that stays focused on what they can't have.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 8, 2014 11:11:20 GMT -5
I don't feel sorry for people that are either child free or child less. We don't get everything we want in life. That's how it goes. Grown ups accept that and make alternative plans and enjoy what they do have. I don't feel sorry for anyone that stays focused on what they can't have. That is a really good philosophy. For many (most?) of us, life isn't what we planned. You can either take it in stride & still have a happy life or never get over the failures & losses.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 8, 2014 11:14:04 GMT -5
There is far too much TMI in the world. Do what you want and you don't have to justify it or explain it to anyone who isn't paying your bills for you!
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