ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jun 8, 2014 22:28:39 GMT -5
Ithem.
And you'll never have a happy stable relationship, if you assume the person has "abandoned" their children.
Sometimes you don't now the entire back-history and just how much they are ((or want to be) involved in their child's (or children's0 lives.
It may be the ex-spouse who's making their involvement difficult.
Best to get a feel for the relationship and see how they interact with children from a previous relationship before jumping to conclusions that they are uninvolved or have "cast them aside".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 22:33:42 GMT -5
."Rainy, I have already said this is his version of the story, and his ex would have another. They divorced, and he apparently paid his child support upfront; then he moved to another state because of his job. That's not unheard of or even a sin. Then he lost his job and didn't have the money to fly an unaccompanied minor (more expensive than a regular ticket) to visit him. By the time he regained his financial footing, his son was no longer interested in visiting. That makes sense to me because I have tween/teenaged grandkids. If they are going to be bored, they aren't interested. :_But his details don't matter. I'm just saying that it isn't as cut-and-dried as the parent doesn't always care. I can see by the pictures my DH still has of his ten/now 40 year-old-child that he DOES care. I can tell my the way he interacts with my grandchildren.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 8, 2014 22:49:10 GMT -5
... I'm saying I don't get guys that could leave their children behind ... I've chosen to as a whole avoid the situation (for various reasons, some being how young I was and not ready to be a step parent if it came to that) ... The unwillingness of women to get involved in step parenting is one of the reasons that men choose to not be too involved in their children's lives. To be fair, I was talking about the 22-25 year old me. I, personally, was too young for kids period - step or otherwise and acted accordingly. With the ex I mentioned I was perfectly willing to become one if the relationship had progressed - but I was almost 28 by the time we broke up. Huge difference between those ages if you ask me.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 8, 2014 22:54:41 GMT -5
The unwillingness of women to get involved in step parenting is one of the reasons that men choose to not be too involved in their children's lives. To be fair, I was talking about the 22-25 year old me. I, personally, was too young for kids period - step or otherwise and acted accordingly. With the ex I mentioned I was perfectly willing to become one if the relationship had progressed - but I was almost 28 by the time we broke up. Huge difference between those ages if you ask me. I wasn't talking about you at all.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 9, 2014 4:29:46 GMT -5
... I'm saying I don't get guys that could leave their children behind ... I've chosen to as a whole avoid the situation (for various reasons, some being how young I was and not ready to be a step parent if it came to that) ... The unwillingness of women to get involved in step parenting is one of the reasons that men choose to not be too involved in their children's lives. I can assure you that if any man told me I had to choose between him or my children, he would be out the door immediately. A man who drops his children because his new wife doesn't want to step-parent is a piece of shit
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 9, 2014 4:33:06 GMT -5
I can't imagine letting anything or anyone come between me and my children. I would spend every last cent I had fighting for them. It pains me how easily "parents" just walk out if their children's lives and the pathetic excuses they make for doing so
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2014 5:40:23 GMT -5
The unwillingness of women to get involved in step parenting is one of the reasons that men choose to not be too involved in their children's lives. I can assure you that if any man told me I had to choose between him or my children, he would be out the door immediately. A man who drops his children because his new wife doesn't want to step-parent is a piece of shit As are the women who put men in that position.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 9, 2014 5:47:54 GMT -5
I stopped dating a nice guy because he backed off seeing his daughter. Yes, his ex made it tough although she and her new husband lived off that CS check of his. She even called CPS on him and said he abused their daughter. Charge dropped of course but it scared him. So I got involved and was with them whenever she visited 24/7 so that it couldn't be used again. But I had to insist he visit her. Frankly, I think he liked being totally single and no kid hassle and the daughter cramped his "style." She's almost 18 now so it's no longer an issue. I wonder how the ex and her spouse will live with that check gone? They may have to get jobs!! My ex disappeared out of the kids lives. If you ask him, he will tell you the alimony and CS he was supposed to pay were horrendous and he couldn't support it. Plus, he made the SUPREME sacrifice to let the children have peaceful lives without being torn apart two parents. Horse shit. He could afford numerous trips to Mexico and Italy. He had a house on the water and a 50 ft yacht plus many other toys. He worked under the table. He doesn't now of course because he thinks he is judgment free. The court won't go after him because no welfare was used to support the kids so I'd have to hire a lawyer.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2014 6:30:45 GMT -5
... She even called CPS on him and said he abused their daughter. ... Frankly, I think he liked being totally single and no kid hassle and the daughter cramped his "style." ... Yeah, having the constant risk of facing child abuses charges tends to cramp many human being's "style".
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 9, 2014 7:06:52 GMT -5
I'm always a little suspicious of the version of events put forth by the parent who no longer sees his or her children. According to my dad, my mom was a harpy who kicked him out and made it impossible for him to see his children.
I was 13 when they divorced, I have a pretty good memory of the time. We rarely saw him even when he lived in the same house (out partying or locked in his room). Most of his interaction with us was through yelling. The only thing the divorce changed was that we were no longer walking on eggshells. If I had any doubts about what happened, they were eliminated a decade later when I saw him do the exact same thing to my ex stepmother and half brother and sister.
The scary thing is, he has told himself his version of events so many times that he truly believes that's what happened...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2014 8:02:57 GMT -5
The unwillingness of women to get involved in step parenting is one of the reasons that men choose to not be too involved in their children's lives. However - they do get to chose the women they get involved with - so sorry - no passes! Understanding why and accepting the why are to separate things.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2014 8:04:59 GMT -5
... Much easier to feed yourself the lies that someone else was the "bad" guy. Much truth in that.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Jun 9, 2014 8:10:17 GMT -5
The unwillingness of women to get involved in step parenting is one of the reasons that men choose to not be too involved in their children's lives. However - they do get to chose the women they get involved with - so sorry - no passes! Yeah, and if a man even entertains making his life with a woman who won't accept his children, then he's a dickwad. It's not the women (single childless) ones who need to step up. And I also think women (mothers) who use their children as weapons or withhold them from the fathers as equally disgusting. Look I live here because of circumstances. I would love to move back to the states. But I knew that the moment I had children that even if I got divorced, I would stay here to be with them. I accepted that this place is my home now, no matter what. My children are Canadian now. Period. that is what being a parent is about. you are responsible for bringing a life into the world. Yhey didn't ask to be born. It's your duty to sacrifice.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 9, 2014 8:19:16 GMT -5
I think people who grow up and become emotionally stable, mature human beings don't fully understand people who stay immature or weak. Sometimes people (parents) are insecure , easily manipulated, jealous, selfish, apt to misunderstand communication, etc. That could be the parent who has the kids, or the parent who doesn't. But both of their attitudes have a huge impact on the child's relationship with both parents.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 8:33:41 GMT -5
Rukh and Rainy, I gave an example that it could be complicated. Please do not use my husband as a specific example of anything more than things can be complicated.
Thank you.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 9, 2014 8:55:39 GMT -5
And you'll never have a happy stable relationship, if you assume the person has "abandoned" their children.
Sometimes you don't now the entire back-history and just how much they are ((or want to be) involved in their child's (or children's0 lives.
It may be the ex-spouse who's making their involvement difficult.
Best to get a feel for the relationship and see how they interact with children from a previous relationship before jumping to conclusions that they are uninvolved or have "cast them aside". exactly glad I wasn't the only one confused by her comments.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 9, 2014 9:19:05 GMT -5
My son is my favorite person in the entire world. I'm having serious anxiety over him leaving me for a month to go to Germany. I couldn't imagine willingly cutting him out of my life. Even when DH and I were separated briefly a few years ago he made it a point to see our son as much as possible. Didn't let more than a day or so go by without seeing DS. And on those days he didn't see him (because he knew I needed space to work through things) he'd call DS and talk to him for a healthy amount of time.
I couldn't imagine a scenario in which either myself or my DH would be OK with not seeing the Boy on a regular basis.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2014 9:26:05 GMT -5
I'm not sure how to take that. Will they do the same thing when/if their current relationship becomes past? ie - they have not changed? Or - have they learned some lesson? But not enough to correct mistakes in their past - but enough to not repeat them in the present? oh......I just had a thought - maybe they are working overtime to prove that if was the ex, and not them, at fault the first time around? to overtly reassure themselves or their new so? That is impressive. I just wasn't seeing how it could be a negative in regards to males. I applaud you in your ability to find a way to do so.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 9, 2014 9:31:44 GMT -5
You weren't seeing how ceasing communication with "previous children" could be a negative?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2014 9:52:49 GMT -5
You weren't seeing how ceasing communication with "previous children" could be a negative? There was a two step part to the discussion. It was the finding that males did a better job the second time around that was cast in a way to slam males that I was pointing out.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2014 9:54:17 GMT -5
Male socialization is a bitch.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 9, 2014 9:56:43 GMT -5
DFs dad did a better job second time around, too. He just didn't live long enough to finish the job so DF had to.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Jun 9, 2014 9:58:35 GMT -5
Rukh and Rainy, I gave an example that it could be complicated. Please do not use my husband as a specific example of anything more than things can be complicated.
Thank you. Sorry Southern, I know that at the end of the day, the details of your DH experience might make perfect sense. I certainly don't mean to gang up on you or anything. It's just that this is so personal. I have a father who talks about us all the time to strangers and if you didn't know him, you would think that the was the most devoted father in the world and that we are the assholes. But I could tell stories about my father that would make you throw up. And my father also keeps framed pictures of us around and harps about how much he loves us.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 9, 2014 9:59:48 GMT -5
You weren't seeing how ceasing communication with "previous children" could be a negative? There was a two step part to the discussion. It was the finding that males did a better job the second time around that was cast in a way to slam males that I was pointing out. That's like saying that a man who abused his first wife is a great husband for never hitting his second wife. I don't care how good a job the man does "the second time around," the initial abandonment is inexcusable.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jun 9, 2014 10:01:28 GMT -5
Some posters have an amazing ability to come online, read a few paragraphs, then be able to understand the thoughts and motives behind the actions of someone they've never met and pass judgement on them.
All this without knowing anywhere near all of the facts. I guess if it applied in their case/worldview then the same must be true for everyone else.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2014 10:05:39 GMT -5
... That's like saying that a man who abused his first wife is a great husband for never hitting his second wife. ... So no opportunity for growth and redemption? I wonder who has lived a life so perfect that they would not be condemned under such judgement.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Jun 9, 2014 10:10:59 GMT -5
... That's like saying that a man who abused his first wife is a great husband for never hitting his second wife. ... So no opportunity for growth and redemption? I wonder who has lived a life so perfect that they would not be condemned under such judgement. There is room for growth and redemption, but you need to pay the consequences first. People who often do wrong want the redemption without ever having the paid for their errors. Doesn'T work like that or at least in my book it doesn't.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2014 10:13:14 GMT -5
So no opportunity for growth and redemption? I wonder who has lived a life so perfect that they would not be condemned under such judgement. There is room for growth and redemption, but you need to pay the consequences first. People who often do wrong want the redemption without ever having the paid for their errors. Doesn'T work like that or at least in my book it doesn't. And what is the consequence that you would judge to be adequate?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 9, 2014 10:13:43 GMT -5
If there is such growth/redemption, why is it not applied equally to all children?
I have no doubt that it is more challenging to be active in the lives of children who do not live with you full-time. But that doesn't mean you get a mulligan. IMO if there is true growth, it will be demonstrated by involvement with the kids with whom it is more difficult to see(geographic proximity, interfering custodial parent, etc.)
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 9, 2014 10:17:27 GMT -5
Ithem. And you'll never have a happy stable relationship, if you assume the person has "abandoned" their children.
Sometimes you don't now the entire back-history and just how much they are ((or want to be) involved in their child's (or children's0 lives.
It may be the ex-spouse who's making their involvement difficult.
Best to get a feel for the relationship and see how they interact with children from a previous relationship before jumping to conclusions that they are uninvolved or have "cast them aside".Well thanks for that blanket statement of relationship misery. I think dating someone with kids when you're in your 30s is entirely different than dating someone with kids when you're 22... Since I am so young, the vast majority of them were never married to their child's mother - even more so when I was younger, which wasn't that long ago. And, as I stated earlier, even at 25 I was not ready to be a mom nor a step mom. I don't think that makes me doomed to never have a happy, stable relationship because I am aware of what I can and can not handle. As my view on whether I would want to be/am ready to be a mom has evolved so has my stance on dating guys with kids. Again, since my last relationship was with a guy with a kid. (And considering she lives 4 states away because he moved here for a better job opportunity to give her a better opportunity - I didn't jump to conclusions on him casting her aside since he lived so far away.) But that doesn't mean I'm going to give every guy with kids that messages me on a dating site a chance, just like I'm not going to give every guy without kids that messages me on a dating site a chance. As for the child's mom making their involvement difficult, I understand that that happens and it sucks. But to be honest I shy away from drama (and no Virginia, not every person who isn't married to their kid's other parent is a crazy drama mess) and furthermore it would rip me apart to see my SO in pain like that and I'm not sure I'd have it in me not to throttle the mom that was doing that. It was bad enough seeing my ex when plans had to change and he couldn't see his daughter then. If my self awareness of what I can and cannot handle makes me a selfish asshole, then so be it. But I think it's better to do that then to have dated a guy for a year and when it got serious to break up and leave a mess in my wake once I realized I wasn't ready to be a mom. There's also exceptions to be made of every rule, and I have already made them once.
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