Children left behind...

[Deleted]

I don't get it... Reading debtheaven post in the ex lover thread how some new lover/SO can demand that the person cease all contact with the their previous spouse and by association children?

And I even more shocked with what ease the man seem to totally forget that they had previous kids that still exist and still are their kids.

My cousin is going through this right now with her kids and soon to be ex. Kids are 16 and 15 but they separated two years earlier, he left her for a younger model.

Then had a baby with younger model and posted pictures on Facebook titled : my new family. And his kids are his friends on Facebook and can see the pictures.

And those 2 years she had to beg/plead with him to be part of the kids lives, attend practices, sport events or birthdays. He missed 99% of them but she keeps on trying because of the kids.

I just didn't get it. Leaving a wife I get, but your kids? No remorse, no regrets? And no she is not the type that railroad his visitations , she would gladly do 50/50 split if only he would bother to show up. Calls last minute to cancel anyway as it is now and the kids had decided since he doesn't want nothing to do with them because he has a new family, they don't want nothing to do with him.

So she is forcing the kids and father to spend time together because she feels it is important. Obviously he doesn't.

And it is not a man thing, heard of women doing the same. How can a parent just abandon their kid(s) and just start fresh with someone else (family and all) and completely erase that part
Of their lives?

[mmhmm]

I can't imagine, cawiau.  It's unfathomable to me that anyone,  male or female, could just walk away from their children.  It doesn't compute for me.

[The Captain]

To be honest I don't get it either.  My brother's father pretty much walked out of his life after my Mom's divorce.  I don't know if that is what made him a wreck but always wonder.

...and I'll probably get slammed for this, but when DH and I went through a rough patch I was willing to consider giving him primary custody because that would have been best for EVERYONE, but no way in hell would I ever walk out of DD's life.

I know more men then women who have abandoned their children.  Don't really understand the dynamics there.

[Deleted]

I am guessing it is more complicated than just being "selfish, thinking only of themselves." In your case, the mom "begged."

Both my ex-bf and DH have a son that they haven't seen since the child was 8-10 years old.

In ex-bf's case, the mom eventually remarried and asked him to relinquish parental rights so that the son could be adopted by her husband. He did. I don't know any more than that.  Well, I do know the son died in his 40s without ever having children because the ex-bf's daughter is a friend of mine.  But you know what I mean.

In DH's case, he gave his ex a few hundred thousand dollars (back in the 1980s) in lieu of child support.  So that wasn't the issue.  DH moved to a different state not long after.  But then he lost his job.  He had to pay to have his son flown out as an unaccompanied minor, and he couldn't afford it.  By the time he got back on his feet, his son was a tween or teen and wasn't interested.  When DH had his first heart attack in the 1990s, his mutual friends called his ex to let him and the son know.  She said, "Don't ever call again.   We don't care."  That really, really hurt him.

He has pictures of his son framed and hung and on the dresser, etc.  He hasn't forgotten him.  But divorces are often more complicated than they appear.  I'm sure the ex's version of this story is much different and maybe even the son's.  But being "selfish, thinking only of themselves" doesn't apply to my husband.  You can tell he loved his son.

[mmhmm]

What happened with your DH, @southernsusana, is different than what's being discussed here, I think.  He didn't abandon the boy.  Circumstances made it impossible for him to see the boy. It wasn't that he didn't care.  It's a shame the boy doesn't realize that, but who knows what his mother told him.  It's just sad.

The Captain, I've known a couple of families where the father has primary custody because it was the best decision for the good of the child.  Both mothers still keep in touch with the kids. One lives in the same town, so is able to spend time with her daughter.  The other mom is in another state, but keeps in touch through the internet and visits once a year.  I don't look down on either in any way.  They did what they felt was best considering their circumstances. 

[Deleted]

In my case, my ex told his mistress that we no longer "did it", which was a lie. When I got pregnant, she realized it was a lie. So, she gave him an ultimatum: it's me, or the new baby. Obviously at the time I did not realize my ex had a mistress, I only found out later, when I was pregnant with our third.

My ex lacked balls. Understatement of the year. 

I only found this out years later, from my former MIL. 

But I don't get it either, for sure. In my case it was horrific, because he was close to 2 of the 3 kids (the boys), but refused to have anything to do with the third (the girl). Lord knows, he did a LOT of damage. 

[Sunnyday]

I glad that I wasn't the only one affected by debthaven's post. I had a very strong visceral reaction.

I don't get that.

[justme]

I don't get it either, but honestly it is a reason I've never really wanted to date a guy with kids. If he couldn't be there and in their lives for the kid(s) he had, what makes me think he'd be better with our kids? 

The one guy I dated with a kid obviously put her first. He moved here for a job, but paid child support. He'd go home on holidays to spend time with her, his mom brought her to him on some long weekends, and he'd take his vacation time to go wherever she wanted instead of bringing her to where he was all summer where she'd be without her friends and in daycare while he worked. His parents also had a good relationship with his ex so they often took her and he'd get photos from there. (They got along so well, his mom spoils his ex's new kid because she hasn't gotten a new grandkid out of either of her sons yet and knows it will be a while, if ever ) He is a good dad, and I could see/hear it when he talked about her or to her. Hearing his side of his conversations with her was downright adorable.

Seeing him talk to her made me want to have kids with him. I just could never date a guy that wasn't that good of a dad. Though honestly I don't know if I could date a guy with kids again because it hurt like hell coming in second to her when he got a job that would mean more money to provide for her and more time to spend with her but so much travel he couldn't keep up a relationship. 

So yeah, tl;dr I'm almost more horrified at the people that date them after with the knowledge/observance that they aren't in their kids' life and making them a priority. 

[Sunnyday]

Jun 8, 2014 19:22:57 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

I am guessing it is more complicated than just being "selfish, thinking only of themselves." In your case, the mom "begged."

Both my ex-bf and DH have a son that they haven't seen since the child was 8-10 years old.

In ex-bf's case, the mom eventually remarried and asked him to relinquish parental rights so that the son could be adopted by her husband. He did. I don't know any more than that.  Well, I do know the son died in his 40s without ever having children because the ex-bf's daughter is a friend of mine.  But you know what I mean.

In DH's case, he gave his ex a few hundred thousand dollars (back in the 1980s) in lieu of child support.  So that wasn't the issue.  DH moved to a different state not long after.  But then he lost his job.  He had to pay to have his son flown out as an unaccompanied minor, and he couldn't afford it.  By the time he got back on his feet, his son was a tween or teen and wasn't interested.  When DH had his first heart attack in the 1990s, his mutual friends called his ex to let him and the son know.  She said, "Don't ever call again.   We don't care."  That really, really hurt him.

He has pictures of his son framed and hung and on the dresser, etc.  He hasn't forgotten him.  But divorces are often more complicated than they appear.  I'm sure the ex's version of this story is much different and maybe even the son's.  But being "selfish, thinking only of themselves" doesn't apply to my husband.  You can tell he loved his son.

Obviously, we only have the version that your husband tol you. But he gave his ex hundreds of thousands of dollars, moved out of state and couldn't afford to have his son flown out? Did they not bother calling or writing letters (given the time frame)? Maintaining the relationship? And why would he move away from his son? Why wouldn't he pay child support using the traditional channels?

The only excuse in my book for not seeing or maintaining your relationship with your children is if your ex ran off to a foreign country with them and you have no idea where they are. The other excuses are just that, excuses.

[Deleted]

Rainyday, it's been 21 (nearly 22) years, and frankly, I don't get it either. I get the info from my former MIL and intellectually I "know" what happened, but I don't get it either. 

My DD had a very rough road but she is doing OK now. Like I told her, we all have our roads to travel. I would have done anything I could to change that situation, but it was out of my hands. 

She was lucky that my DH, technically her stepdad, came along when she was one, and he loves her to bits. 

Life isn't fair. 

I think the single thing I am proudest of in my life is that my kids have such a strong sense of family, and love each other so, despite this situation, and the fact that DS3 is technically the three older kids' "half" brother. They adore DS3, and DD adores her older brothers, despite the fact that their bio-dad was so incredibly destructive and divisive.

ETA: In the other thread you mentioned somebody who treated you badly and who to some degree "molded" you into what you are now. That is also how I feel about my ex. 

[Deleted]

SS, my heart breaks for your DH. Has he tried again to reach out to his son?

[wvugurl26]

I don't understand it either and I've lived it.

When my mom and her brother were young (4-5?), their mother locked them up in the house and took off. My grandpa's sister happened to come over and find them. Grandpa spent tens of thousands of dollars in the 60s to track her down so he could get a divorce and legal custody of his children. She saw me once at the hospital and has never seen my brother. Ironically she lives in the same town as grandpa and the only grandma I've ever known on mom's side.

Some of her family still lives near my hometown and I see them and exchange Christmas cards. She visits with them but never us. Apparently a couple weeks ago my brother missed seeing her by about 5 minutes. He wouldn't have known who she was.

My parents divorced when I was 5. Mom originally had custody because we were all she had. Dad gave it to her because she wanted it and he was a long haul truck driver. Fast forward a few months and we ended up with dad and his parents. He eventually got custody. He remarried after a few years. Mom lived 5 minutes across town and my dad and stepmom bent over backwards to facilitate visitations. She had very little to do with us. She wasn't completely gone but she wasn't involved and we were disappointed a lot.

[Deleted]

I'm going to tell you the worst thing that ever happened to my DD because of this situation, ie the worst thing her bio dad ever did to her. I'm crying, I think I will probably cry telling this story even if I live to 150. 

My DD has always had learning issues ("processing problems"). Bitch that I am, I kicked her butt and kept her in mainstream until I couldn't anymore, in 11th grade, at which point she transferred to a vocational HS in the hospitality industry. 

She had to do internships in HS. Since she is bilingual, and very pretty, she always got the best internships. So, she got an internship at a very posh restaurant, literally across the street from her bio-dad's / grandparents' office (they work together). 

That's where they took their clients. So we told her, you must ALWAYS check the reservation list so you never get taken by surprise. One day she sat down to an early lunch (for the employees) and realized she had forgotten to check the list. She did, and saw their name, reservation for 3. 

When her dad and the client walked through the door, instead of saying, "hello Mr N", she just said "hi". Her dad stared at her, and stuck his hip out and answered "hi!" in a high-pitched girly voice, mocking DD. (As if to say, WTF with "hi" instead of "Hello Mr N." She maintained her composure and seated them. A minute later her elderly grandfather walked in, rushed over to her, kissed and hugged her, in front of the entire posh restaurant. 

A few minutes later, Mr N ... HER BIO-DAD!!! ... walked up to her and ... apologized. "Sorry, I did not realize who you are." As if that made things better!  

At that point DD was in a total state, she asked her boss if she could finish the day in the kitchen. To add insult to injury, the staff mocked her and made sure to tell her that her granddad asked them to tell her goodbye, but not her dad. (There was a lot of jealousy between the permanent employees and the interns who were in school.)

At that point, to be honest, I could have murdered him.   

But I too firmly believe that hatred corrodes the vessel that contains it, so I have moved past it, and hopefully we all have helped my DD to move past it too, to the best of all our ability. 

[mmhmm]

wvugurl26, I'm sorry you were so hurt by your biological mother.  Kids deserve to be loved, and to feel loved and important.  It always hurts me to hear that some aren't.  I just can't fathom it.


@debthaven2, give your DD a big hug from this ol' great-grandmother. She's done darned well for herself and the loss is all her bio-dad's, not hers.  Thankfully, her grandfather was a real man!

[wvugurl26]

I can't even imagine that debt. It's just heart breaking. I'm glad her grandfather recognized her. 

[Deleted]

WVY, it hurts, A LOT, to dredge this up. But apparently you've been through this too, and come out the other end.

Gd willing DD will have her Bachelors degree in International Hotel Management in a few weeks.  

[moon/Laura]

Jun 8, 2014 19:29:25 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I've known a couple of families where the father has primary custody because it was the best decision for the good of the child.

My sister and her first ex did this. My sis paid the child support and had visitation. Her schedule at that time would have made things really hard to be the custodial parent, so they did what worked. My nephew is turning 25 in July and he's well adjusted.

[Artemis Windsong]

cawiau:  Coach those kids to become the best they can be in education and work.

Why?  My brother is in this situation where he mistreated his kids who are now fabulously successful.  They won't speak to him nor help him out. 

The best revenge is success and to live well.

[mollyanna58]

My friend's eldest son's bio-dad has seen him once in his life, when the son was a few months old.  He is now in his late teens.  He was adopted by his step-father.  This is a great kid, who doesn't seem to miss a relationship that he never had.

Bio-dad's loss.

[sheilaincali]

My husband had 4 older half siblings (one died and the other three are still alive). Their mom and dad divorced before DH's mom came into the picture. DH 
's mom mad dad met and married ams were living in California. He was career marine corps amd stationed there. The kids and his ex were living in Florida. One day the cops called him to say they had the kids in custody. 
Apparently his ex wife decided to walk out and abandoned the kids with no money. Cops picked the two boys up panhandling. Dad immediately flew out there and packed up the kids 
this was a year before DH was born. He is 41 now and to the best of his knowledge his half siblings have only seen their mom once or twice since she walked out on them

they are very messed up. Doesn't help that dad died like 6 or 7 years later. Stepmom (DH's mom) remarried and new stepfather kicked them all out to how live eith other relatives 
 they hate DH's mom but have reconnected with DH 

[Deleted]

Well, my Dad was sent to Vietnam 6 weeks before I was born and my parents divorced shortly after he returned when I was maybe 18 months old.  For the next 10 years or so I saw him once a year on Christmas Eve for a few hours with his new wife's family.  Once I was 12 or so, his MIL passed away and they didn't come down for that, plus the draw of presents wasn't as great for me at that time anymore so I kind of rebelled against going at all. 

I can't say I ever felt bad about it or was angry at him even though most of my life I believed he bailed on me to start his new family.  They had money and lived in a nice house, the kids got their way paid through college.  My Mom never spoke badly of him and as far as I know he always paid child support. 

It wasn't until I was an adult that I found out the real story from my aunt's.  Turns out, he came back from the war ready to settle down with his family, and my Mom had been screwing around on him the entire time and wanted a divorce.  He first moved to South Dakota for graduate school and then met his current wife and they moved a couple hours away.  He told me that he had stayed away because he thought it would be easier for everyone especially when he lived so far away until I was about 5. 

When I was in my early 30's he must have got overcome with guilt or maybe it was just because I was pregnant and he had a grandkid on the way, but he suddenly started becoming very involved in my life.  I see him all the time now.  He's investing for the kids for college, comes to events for them, calls, texts and emails all the time.  I have a relationship with my half brother and sister and my stepmother is amazing.  It's all good. 

[Opti]

I think there are many possibilities and you probably won't get much enlightenment on this
board as those who post don't feel this way.


I do think in some instances, people walk away from spouse and kids, because they feel
they can't handle the pain of still interacting with the kids as it reminds them of the past.
I wouldn't be one of those people, but it kind of fits with those who seem to be able to
say "you are dead to me" after a breakup or divorce.

[Sam_2.0]

I have a friend from college that left her husband and children. Just walked away. She now has a new rich fiancee and just moved to Europe. She's erased all traces of her children from even her Facebook page. So heartbreaking Five years ago she had a 2 yr old, pregnant with the second, and did nothing but post adorable pics of their little family. Now it's as if they never existed. I have no idea how a mom could walk away from her little children like that. They were maybe 2 and 4 when she left.

[chiver78]

Jun 8, 2014 19:52:56 GMT -5 justme said:

I don't get it either, but honestly it is a reason I've never really wanted to date a guy with kids. If he couldn't be there and in their lives for the kid(s) he had, what makes me think he'd be better with our kids? 

that's a pretty unfair assumption, IMHO. how do you know that it was him not being there for his kids, as the reason why he's divorced/never married but with kids?

as an example - I dated a guy on/off for awhile, he was a great dad to his son. still is, as far as I know. he had split amicably from his first wife (son's mom) and was coming off a nasty divorce from his 2nd wife when I met him. I've seen the divorce decree, this was all her.... the reasons we ended up not working out had nothing to do with whether he was there for his son or not, or whether he would be there for our kids (at the time, I was pretty adamant about not wanting any. I've mellowed into more of a "if it happens, okay. if it doesn't, that's okay too" sort of mindset). he had split custody with his 1st ex, and was totally involved in his son's life and activities.

just my two cents.

[justme]

Jun 8, 2014 21:33:17 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 8, 2014 19:52:56 GMT -5 justme said:

I don't get it either, but honestly it is a reason I've never really wanted to date a guy with kids. If he couldn't be there and in their lives for the kid(s) he had, what makes me think he'd be better with our kids? 

that's a pretty unfair assumption, IMHO. how do you know that it was him not being there for his kids, as the reason why he's divorced/never married but with kids?

as an example - I dated a guy on/off for awhile, he was a great dad to his son. still is, as far as I know. he had split amicably from his first wife (son's mom) and was coming off a nasty divorce from his 2nd wife when I met him. I've seen the divorce decree, this was all her.... the reasons we ended up not working out had nothing to do with whether he was there for his son or not, or whether he would be there for our kids (at the time, I was pretty adamant about not wanting any. I've mellowed into more of a "if it happens, okay. if it doesn't, that's okay too" sort of mindset). he had split custody with his 1st ex, and was totally involved in his son's life and activities.

just my two cents.

So how is that different from what I've said? You said your example he was totally involved with his kid, that's not what I was talking about. I never said every guy is like that, but it's certainly hard to tell when you first meet a guy. And I obviously dated someone with a kid who was plenty involved in his kid's life so it's not like I think every guy that divorces his wife when they have kids is a bad dad. Pretty sure the paragraphs that followed the first one made that clear. But there's also those that aren't involved or their kid is a periphery and after thought and those I would not date. 

[billisonboard]

Imagine having an arm ripped off and there being a huge gaping wound. Think about bandaging it up as well as you can so that you can continue to live a life. Then, feel the effect of having the bandage removed and a stick stirred around in the healing flesh. Now, bandage it back up and wait for the next time the bandage will be removed. 

[chiver78]

Jun 8, 2014 21:40:58 GMT -5 justme said:

Jun 8, 2014 21:33:17 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

that's a pretty unfair assumption, IMHO. how do you know that it was him not being there for his kids, as the reason why he's divorced/never married but with kids?

as an example - I dated a guy on/off for awhile, he was a great dad to his son. still is, as far as I know. he had split amicably from his first wife (son's mom) and was coming off a nasty divorce from his 2nd wife when I met him. I've seen the divorce decree, this was all her.... the reasons we ended up not working out had nothing to do with whether he was there for his son or not, or whether he would be there for our kids (at the time, I was pretty adamant about not wanting any. I've mellowed into more of a "if it happens, okay. if it doesn't, that's okay too" sort of mindset). he had split custody with his 1st ex, and was totally involved in his son's life and activities.

just my two cents.

So how is that different from what I've said? You said your example he was totally involved with his kid, that's not what I was talking about. I never said every guy is like that, but it's certainly hard to tell when you first meet a guy. And I obviously dated someone with a kid who was plenty involved in his kid's life so it's not like I think every guy that divorces his wife when they have kids is a bad dad. Pretty sure the paragraphs that followed the first one made that clear. But there's also those that aren't involved or their kid is a periphery and after thought and those I would not date. 

I'll take a mulligan here, I honestly stopped reading your post after what I quoted. to go back and read a post similar to mine after seeing "why I never wanted to date a guy with a kid" was surprising. I'm happy you don't think every "single guy w/kids" is a bad dad. but even your last sentence here doesn't line up with the line I quoted. sorry for my confusion, but you're offering somewhat conflicting opinions.

[toomuchreality]

Unfortunate....

[justme]

Jun 8, 2014 21:57:42 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 8, 2014 21:40:58 GMT -5 justme said:

So how is that different from what I've said? You said your example he was totally involved with his kid, that's not what I was talking about. I never said every guy is like that, but it's certainly hard to tell when you first meet a guy. And I obviously dated someone with a kid who was plenty involved in his kid's life so it's not like I think every guy that divorces his wife when they have kids is a bad dad. Pretty sure the paragraphs that followed the first one made that clear. But there's also those that aren't involved or their kid is a periphery and after thought and those I would not date. 

I'll take a mulligan here, I honestly stopped reading your post after what I quoted. to go back and read a post similar to mine after seeing "why I never wanted to date a guy with a kid" was surprising. I'm happy you don't think every "single guy w/kids" is a bad dad. but even your last sentence here doesn't line up with the line I quoted. sorry for my confusion, but you're offering somewhat conflicting opinions.

I don't think it's conflicting at all, but maybe I'm not being clear? I'm saying I don't get guys that could leave their children behind so much that I could not date a guy who had done so. And as it's hard to determine how involved a guy is if you've just met them online, I've chosen to as a whole avoid the situation (for various reasons, some being how young I was and not ready to be a step parent if it came to that) though not have it as a hard dealbreaker since I have dated a guy with kids. 

Further more, because I could never fathom dating a guy who wasn't involved in his kids lives (if he's left them behind once, why wouldn't he do the same to any kids he has with me?) I don't understand the women out there that DO date these guys have have kids with them. 

[billisonboard]

Jun 8, 2014 22:16:06 GMT -5 justme said:

... I'm saying I don't get guys that could leave their children behind ... I've chosen to as a whole avoid the situation (for various reasons, some being how young I was and not ready to be a step parent if it came to that) ...

The unwillingness of women to get involved in step parenting is one of the reasons that men choose to not be too involved in their children's lives.