Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 5, 2014 13:40:23 GMT -5
I do get smiles, winks, and the like, and the occasional e-mail, but usually not from the type of ladies I'm interested in. Why? What's wrong with them? Just curious. The normal deal breakers. I generally seek women who have similar levels of education, a career, things like that. A lot of 20 someting women seem aimless in their life goals. Or they have kids. I don't really desire to date a woman with kids at this point in my life. Maybe at some point I'd consider it, but not right now.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 5, 2014 13:46:01 GMT -5
Why aren't you open to someone who has a different level of education? DH has an associates, I have a bachelor's. He doesn't even use his degree and he stands to make more than me if he keeps at his current job. Having the same educational background doesn't always mean you'll have a lot in common or that she'll be able to "pull her weight" as YM often likes to say. You don't need to pick the high school drop out, but you should consider people who either don't have a degree or are a level beneath you. Especially if they email you first, clearly there is something about you that interests them, why pass it up because of a piece of paper?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 5, 2014 13:46:03 GMT -5
Or they have kids. I don't really desire to date a woman with kids at this point in my life. Maybe at some point I'd consider it, but not right now.
This may be limiting you some. I would think that single mother's would be a little more serious about life and you seem like a more serious kind of guy. You might want to consider giving a woman with a kid a chance before you dismiss her completely because of the kid situation.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 5, 2014 13:46:07 GMT -5
Phoenix met GEL - GEL meet Phoenix. That is a match made in heaven. Seriously, how far apart do you two live from one another... Phoenix would be exactly my type, almost 40...if I were 10 years younger! I'm too old and there are no kids are in my future. He'd make a great partner for someone younger and I sure hope he finds her. He may think he comes across as "emotionless", but I can tell there is a heart of gold inside. I wasn't sure of your age, just that you have been married before (right?) You two both seem like very nice people, you are both religious, etc. Age doesn't have to be a factor but I see what you are saying. I dated a guy who was 10 yrs younger than me. He wanted kids and I don't. He was a nice man but wanting kids/not wanting kids is something you must have in common IMO.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 5, 2014 13:48:26 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 5, 2014 13:49:11 GMT -5
Pheonix-you need to determine what qualities you bring to the table. You have your criteria for what you are looking for in a woman. Now you need to find out what qualities they are looking for in a man and see if you meet their requirements. What you may lack you need to figure out how to make up for in other areas of their interests. It is a two-way street.
Good luck.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 5, 2014 13:52:22 GMT -5
Angel,
I never ask for the # to text, I always ask for it to call and talk to them. I'll usually say something along the lines of:
"Would you like to talk on the phone sometime? If so, my number is X. If you're not ready yet, that's fine, but if you'd like me to call you, let me know what your number is and a good time to call."
Honestly, I don't like texting all that much. I will respond if someone texts me, but I'm the t ype that would just as soon call before texting.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 5, 2014 13:54:44 GMT -5
Phoenix would be exactly my type, almost 40...if I were 10 years younger! I'm too old and there are no kids are in my future. He'd make a great partner for someone younger and I sure hope he finds her. He may think he comes across as "emotionless", but I can tell there is a heart of gold inside. I wasn't sure of your age, just that you have been married before (right?) You two both seem like very nice people, you are both religious, etc. Age doesn't have to be a factor but I see what you are saying. I dated a guy who was 10 yrs younger than me. He wanted kids and I don't. He was a nice man but wanting kids/not wanting kids is something you must have in common IMO. Yes. I was married before...hence my apprehension to do it again! And thank you.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 5, 2014 13:55:24 GMT -5
Let's face it (you wanted bluntness) the perimeters you have so far aren't getting you dates with ladies that seem interested in 2nd dates. What's the harm in relaxing your criteria some? The same old same old seems to be getting you dates with the same types of ladies and they aren't really going anywhere. What's the harm?
My husband will graduate soon with his bachelor's degree. He is without a doubt one of the smartest people that I have ever met. My friend Z is a SAHD married to a surgeon (he put her through school) and he has an associates. The two of them are more intelligent and better spoken than two of the professors in our group of friends are. Don't discount a whole portion of the population out of snobbery or the opinion that they can't be on your level without the same level of education.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 5, 2014 13:59:58 GMT -5
Not that you guys don't have a point, but I'm curious as to why when Justme listed education and money and career ambitions as a "deal braker" no one said anything, but when I just brought up education, I'm told I should expand my horizons.
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genericname
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Post by genericname on Jun 5, 2014 14:00:47 GMT -5
Phoenix, you sound a lot like my DH, except that when I met him he wasn't in the market for a gf, just living his life. He'd pretty much decided he was who he was, and that was the way things were going to be. He was older than you when we met (36), so I think that's why he was so resigned to being alone. I pursued him. We got married 3 years later, and now we have 2 kids. Being an older parent is fun!
I don't have any additional advice to add to the good advice you have already been given. I just told you about my DH to give you hope that, even if it doesn't happen right away, it may happen when you least expect it. Good luck, I hope you find the right girl.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 5, 2014 14:01:25 GMT -5
Angel, I never ask for the # to text, I always ask for it to call and talk to them. I'll usually say something along the lines of: "Would you like to talk on the phone sometime? If so, my number is X. If you're not ready yet, that's fine, but if you'd like me to call you, let me know what your number is and a good time to call." Honestly, I don't like texting all that much. I will respond if someone texts me, but I'm the t ype that would just as soon call before texting. That isn't too bad, not what I was picturing when you said you asked for their number. Just keep in mind some people are more comfortable texting than talking on the phone.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 5, 2014 14:02:02 GMT -5
Actually, I would consider asking GEL out on a date if she was in the area and interested in doing so. But she has made it clear she thinks she's too old for me, so *shrugs* it's her choice. No hard feelings. I don't know how old GEL is, but I was always under the impression she was in her early to mid 30's.
I'd actually also consider doing the same for a couple other posters, like Justme and WVUGURL, but I don't think they're in my area.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 5, 2014 14:02:30 GMT -5
First a little fact, I have a bachelors degree and some grad school work. I had five significant relationship with women in my life prior to my current marriage. Their educational levels (some when we were involved, some subsequent to the relationship) are one Ph.d, three master's, and one bachelor's degree. My current wife barely made it through high school. She has admitted that there are times that she has no idea what I am talking about when I go off on some tirade about current events. There are times that I am frustrated that she can't discuss the latest political scandal (but I have all you wonderful people to talk to about that ). I am happiest in my current non-competitive relationship.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 5, 2014 14:02:56 GMT -5
Not that you guys don't have a point, but I'm curious as to why when Justme listed education and money and career ambitions as a "deal braker" no one said anything, but when I just brought up education, I'm told I should expand my horizons. Well, because this thread is about you and not her but I think the same thing goes for justme..
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2014 14:05:05 GMT -5
Education is something you should be more lax on. I've often considered taking mention of my masters off my about me (probably will do it now that I mentioned it here). I've met people with high degrees that are idiots. The only way to truly know if someone is on your level is to get to know them.
As for work, I'm with you on the career path. I've dated guys that are still in school (now a deal breaker unless it's grad) or just out and are aimless and directionless. I didn't like it because it bled into other parts of their life.
One of the more recent guys I dated for a while (still a while ago) ended up dropping out of college early on because he realized that what he wanted to do, he could do now without the degree. He was one guy who could pretty much talk on every level with me and even enjoyed debating and philosophical stuff but he didn't have a degree.
Those two are good "guidelines", but it's also easy enough to see if the reasons you want those things are present in someone without those things if you go on a few dates with them.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 5, 2014 14:08:07 GMT -5
Justme isn't the one who's asking why she's not having any luck. You want what you want I get that but you're not 30 yet and a lot of people in your age range are still getting going and your criteria may rule them out.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 5, 2014 14:11:15 GMT -5
Not that you guys don't have a point, but I'm curious as to why when Justme listed education and money and career ambitions as a "deal braker" no one said anything, but when I just brought up education, I'm told I should expand my horizons. It is a horrible double standard But, in reality if you aren't finding what you want in your current search, then maybe it is time to expand that search & at least give other women a chance. It is possible that some of these women are "dumbing themselves down slightly" for dates also. They may be worried about intimidating a guy by appearing too smart or successful. I think it is still pretty common for the men to want to feel like the provider & money-maker in the relationship, so women may not be selling themselves on the attributes you are looking to find. I've wondered if putting down I'm an engineer & my actual salary range scares some guys off. And even though my raise in a few weeks should bump me into the next range, I have already decided not to update my profile for this very reason. At that point I make way higher than a median salary & more than a lot of guys that might approach me.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 5, 2014 14:13:39 GMT -5
Phoenix84 - you really should consider stop analyzing yourself and everything else to death. Dating is not science. While many people made oodles of money giving out all kinds of dating and relationship advice, all of it is just really made up shit. There are people who did everything "right" and looked for the "right" person and ended up in divorce. And then there are stories of complete opposite, where no one would have guessed that a couple would last and yet, they are on their 50th wedding anniversary Know who you are. Know what you bring to the table (OMG, the world must be ending cause I agree with Tennesseer), know who you are looking for, but at the same time be open enough to recognize the potential. And again, for goodness sake, stop thinking that there is something wrong with you!!!!!!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 5, 2014 14:13:53 GMT -5
Justme isn't the one who's asking why she's not having any luck. You want what you want I get that but you're not 30 yet and a lot of people in your age range are still getting going and your criteria may rule them out.
You keep mentioning you aren't getting any second dates from girls YOU contact. I assume you're picking them because they meet your criteria.
Meanwhile you are not contacting girls who email you first because they don't fit your chosen criteria. If a girl is emailing you first that means she's interested and wants to know more about you.
You really should expand your horizons and pick from the girls that email you first. You might have better luck because they wouldn't be emailing you if they weren't at least somewhat curious about you.
As I said you don't have to pick a high school drop out, but you may be losing out by rejecting everyone who doesn't have the exact same piece of paper you do.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jun 5, 2014 14:15:09 GMT -5
Angel, I never ask for the # to text, I always ask for it to call and talk to them. I'll usually say something along the lines of: "Would you like to talk on the phone sometime? If so, my number is X. If you're not ready yet, that's fine, but if you'd like me to call you, let me know what your number is and a good time to call." Honestly, I don't like texting all that much. I will respond if someone texts me, but I'm the t ype that would just as soon call before texting. Eek. Sorry the word choice is just too... forced for me. first, You're going to have to text. At least a little. I understand not wanting to have full on conversations via text, but a little bit here and there is expected. Second, just say, "hey, can I have your number?" all the rest is implied. Just take it easy. This is just my opinion. I know it's hard to put yourself out there online and have people rip you to shreds.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2014 14:17:07 GMT -5
I guess I should qualify what I mean by career, efforts to avoid getting flamed and maybe help Phoenix. My last bf had a career - wow it was so nice to date someone that had weekends off like me! - and we broke up because he switched careers into one where he's out of the country 90% of the time and never knows when he'll be in the states. The bf before that was several years older than me, a waiter at Golden Coral, and at the time was 3 years in and still hadn't finished his AA because he'd blow off classes. When we first started dating there were a few times when I couldn't contact him because he didn't have money to pay his phone bill. I'd suggest things we could do, going dutch to it, and he still couldn't afford to do it. (Though part of it was because he'd spend his money with his friends not me, but that's a whole other kettle of fish ). I want someone to have a job that gives them the weekends off. Or at least most of them so I can actually spend time with him. I want him to have a goal in life and be working towards that - whether it's a goal outside of work or dealing with work instead of just floating through life. I'm self-supporting and want my guy to be too. I don't need someone to be in a high powered career, or hell even label it a career! A steady job is a-ok where we'd have time to spend together, some money to do things (though to be honest I would love someone I could travel with), and have some direction in life. I am flexible with whatever path it took to get there.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 5, 2014 14:18:27 GMT -5
Phoenix84 - you really should consider stop analyzing yourself and everything else to death. Dating is not science. While many people made oodles of money giving out all kinds of dating and relationship advice, all of it is just really made up shit. This. I see people posting websites they recommend and while I don't doubt that advice can work you could just as easily read the players guide to getting women if you wanted to have women who seem interested in you enough to go on multiple dates and jump into bed. There's a reason people say opposites attract and that doesn't mean your opposite has to be someone with a high school diploma who's career goals involve the phrase 'would you like fries with that.'
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 5, 2014 14:20:51 GMT -5
Phoenix84 - you really should consider stop analyzing yourself and everything else to death. Dating is not science. While many people made oodles of money giving out all kinds of dating and relationship advice, all of it is just really made up shit.There are people who did everything "right" and looked for the "right" person and ended up in divorce. And then there are stories of complete opposite, where no one would have guessed that a couple would last and yet, they are on their 50th wedding anniversary Know who you are. Know what you bring to the table (OMG, the world must be ending cause I agree with Tennesseer), know who you are looking for, but at the same time be open enough to recognize the potential. And again, for goodness sake, stop thinking that there is something wrong with you!!!!!! I agree with most of your post except the bold part. There is somewhat of a science to dating if you want to be successful. Phoenix is obviously doing something not quite right if he is never getting the second date. From what has been discussed on this thread so far, I would guess his biggest mistake is not asking for it on the first date. If you wait two days to contact her again she has probably decided you weren't interested & kind of written you off. Make it OBVIOUS without being creepy that you like her & want to see her again.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 5, 2014 14:21:05 GMT -5
Texting- I hate talking on the phone. I think I don't have the girl gene or something. I'd much prefer to text. I have to talk on the phone all day long at work and the last thing I want to do in my free time is talk on the phone. You want to sit down and have a conversation with me? Then offer to buy me a beer or a cup of coffee.
Hardly anyone calls me on the phone anymore. My friends and I all text. My BFF will call me a couple of times a week but pretty much everyone else texts me. My friends have busy lives, kids, husbands, etc. It's much easier to find 30 seconds to respond to a text than find 10 minutes of peace and quiet to have a phone conversation in the middle of making dinner and driving kids around.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2014 14:21:31 GMT -5
Angel, I never ask for the # to text, I always ask for it to call and talk to them. I'll usually say something along the lines of: "Would you like to talk on the phone sometime? If so, my number is X. If you're not ready yet, that's fine, but if you'd like me to call you, let me know what your number is and a good time to call." Honestly, I don't like texting all that much. I will respond if someone texts me, but I'm the t ype that would just as soon call before texting. Eek. Sorry the word choice is just too... forced for me. first, You're going to have to text. At least a little. I understand not wanting to have full on conversations via text, but a little bit here and there is expected. Second, just say, "hey, can I have your number?" all the rest is implied. Just take it easy.This is just my opinion. I know it's hard to put yourself out there online and have people rip you to shreds. Thanks for catching this hbbq! I totally glanced over that. Phoenix - what you do is exactly what my friend I talked about does. He over talks and over qualifies. He sees it as trying to put the girl at ease and that he's not pressuring her (I'm guessing you see it that way too), but it doesn't really come across that way. It reads more insecure actually. A simple, "Hey, I'd love to be able to call and chat with you. Can I have your number?" or short and sweet like hbbq is the way to go.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 14:22:13 GMT -5
Chiming in with my limited advice:
DH and I did email for a month or so before we exchanged pictures, I wanted to get a stronger sense of a potential date before meeting them.
I'm glad we did email chatter like that, because his photo did not do it for me. But with a background of having established online friendliness, I went anyway, and was hit by instant lust meeting him in person. Somehow his photo didn't do it, but there's a lot of chemistry. Very attractive in person.
Maybe you could experiment more with this variable? If you email and become friends online, maybe the face to face conversations could flow a bit more like with Mid, and they would understand your personality a bit better?
Aside from that: Mom and dad are excellent at many things, but it we were left to school and self teaching for socialization, by and large.
Over time, I found that when a conversation stalls, an open ended question or compliment on most anything is nice, and shows interest in a good way. Tons of people tell each other how they suck, how they're wrong. Few people give compliments on even little things, or honestly want to hear other people's opinions. I find it works well because people by and large love friendly attention, and the asker gathers data like crazy on a person's views and thought process.
Sometimes people even think very nice things, but don't say them. I figure it's fine to say a nice thing if it's thought, odds are very good results will be fine to very positive.
DH and I are extremely different in interests and personalities. But I think we roll along well together because we're friends, and we do still thank and compliment each other a lot on random stuff, 8 years later. It's nice to be around people who see the best in you, and recognizes strengths. Some people think that the other should just know that they are interested or care and appreciate, but I think saying things is far and away the better method.
Just putting those thoughts in the hopper for consideration. Relationships are never effortless in my experience, but all sorts of things can work depending on how they're approached.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 5, 2014 14:26:21 GMT -5
Phoenix-I believe you said earlier in the thread that you prefer to do most of the listening while your date does most of the talking. At the end of the evening, you may or may not be interested in a second date with that person based upon her comments.
But what about your date? What has she learned about you from her first date with you? If you said very little, she has to base her decision for a second date with you determined solely upon on what conversation you added to the evening.
As hard as it may be, you need to extend yourself during these dates and give them a good idea as to who you are. Your date(s) can only learn who you are through mutual conversation give-and-take conversation.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 5, 2014 14:27:13 GMT -5
Texting- I hate talking on the phone. I think I don't have the girl gene or something. I'd much prefer to text. I have to talk on the phone all day long at work and the last thing I want to do in my free time is talk on the phone. You want to sit down and have a conversation with me? Then offer to buy me a beer or a cup of coffee.
Hardly anyone calls me on the phone anymore. My friends and I all text. My BFF will call me a couple of times a week but pretty much everyone else texts me. My friends have busy lives, kids, husbands, etc. It's much easier to find 30 seconds to respond to a text than find 10 minutes of peace and quiet to have a phone conversation in the middle of making dinner and driving kids around. Same here... If I want to chat then I would much rather do it in person. The only person I talk on the phone with is my dad. We talk at length once a week because he lives thousands of miles away.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 5, 2014 14:27:30 GMT -5
Phoenix84 - you really should consider stop analyzing yourself and everything else to death. Dating is not science. While many people made oodles of money giving out all kinds of dating and relationship advice, all of it is just really made up shit. There are people who did everything "right" and looked for the "right" person and ended up in divorce. And then there are stories of complete opposite, where no one would have guessed that a couple would last and yet, they are on their 50th wedding anniversary Know who you are. Know what you bring to the table (OMG, the world must be ending cause I agree with Tennesseer), know who you are looking for, but at the same time be open enough to recognize the potential. And again, for goodness sake, stop thinking that there is something wrong with you!!!!!! You're probably right. I realize sometimes (maybe even much of the time) overanalyze things. It's probably a consequence of being alone so much. When no one is around to really have a conversation with, you turn inward and think. I don't talk to myself or anything like that, but hopefully you know what I mean.
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