Why do people cheat on their spouses?

[hoops902]

::I would think most people that aren't satisfied with one romantic person in their life would know well before they entered into a marriage. Probably from cheating on previous relationships and the like. As such, they shouldn't enter a monogamous marriage with someone and then flip the script. I wouldn't think there's a lot of people suddenly deciding 5 years into marriage that they like boinking several people at a time - with the exception of someone whose spouse has stopped all the boinking. ::

Agree, though I can see someone deciding 5 years into a marriage that their spouse is no longer attractive sexually.  That's not something you necessarily would know as you're dating from 30-35 that your spouse is going to tack on 50 lbs and stop taking care of themselves.  But they might still be a great person that you'd otherwise want to be in a relationship with. 

I could have a wonderful relationship with someone I wasn't sexually attracted to.  Why shouldn't I have sex with others?  It's not as if we tell people that they're terrible people for having friends with whom they have a connection with when they speak.  Sex is no different from having any other kind of connection with someone.  People just want to inflate the importance of it since it's so taboo in society.  I don't expect my wife to come to me and tell me every time she talks to a male.  Why do I need to come to her and tell her every time I have sex with a female?  Sex is nothing special, no different than a handshake or a haircut except where people overinflate it's significance.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2014 12:24:52 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

proud of not being divorced that are blissfully unaware of the part that another woman plays in their husbands not getting a divorce or being totally miserable to live with

So they're clueless their husbands are cheating. If they were made aware their husbands are cheating would they tell you "Oh that's okay I just want him to be happy?"

Have you ever heard the song "I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then"? I'm pretty sure they purposely overlook any hints that anything is amiss. Because often it is pride that dictates you have to leave. If no one knows about the indiscretion you don't have to become known as that weak person that put up with it.

[Otto the Orange]

you can better ask "why DON'T people cheat on their spouses?"

[hoops902]

::You don't go out and find other people to sleep with and then try to claim you're doing it for the good of your marriage. No you're being a selfish ass and doing some clever mental gymnastics to justify it. ::

Why is having sex with someone selfish?  Is it selfish when my wife hugs her friend because she's had a bad day and needs her emotional needs met?  She didn't clear it with me first.  She didn't tell me before we got married that she'd be hugging other people.  There's no inherent importance with sex.  It's a complete construct.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

If you're into or want an open marriage then that's your business.

I don't want or have any interest in an open marriage, part of me marrying DH was the understanding I wouldn't be sleeping with other people and neither would he.

If he were to change that, it'd be a deal breaker for me. I'd find it incredibly selfish for my DH to sleep with someone else then try to tell me it was in order to "save our marriage".

For other people it might not be and they might be fine having an open marriage or decide to bury their heads in the sand. It's their marriage, not mine.

[Deleted]

Ok.. so let's say you find out your wife has lost interest in you sexually.. then all fo the sudden you find out she has been having the most amazing freaky deaky sex with a buddy of yours. You're okay with that, right? I mean.. it's just sex...

You're adding a different circumstance. What if he isn't interested in his wife sexually. Then he finds out she has been having the most amazing freaky deaky sex with a buddy. Does he still have the right to be all upset. He didn't want to have sex with her.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2014 12:46:24 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

I could have a wonderful relationship with someone I wasn't sexually attracted to.  Why shouldn't I have sex with others?  It's not as if we tell people that they're terrible people for having friends with whom they have a connection with when they speak.  Sex is no different from having any other kind of connection with someone.  People just want to inflate the importance of it since it's so taboo in society.  I don't expect my wife to come to me and tell me every time she talks to a male.  Why do I need to come to her and tell her every time I have sex with a female?  Sex is nothing special, no different than a handshake or a haircut except where people overinflate it's significance.

I don't personally think it's about a specific thing like sex.  I think it comes down to what would critically wound the other.  

If someone has decided to cut the other person's vote out and is secretly risking devastating the other by doing something known to be on the "please don't do this" short list (could be anything), then it's no longer friendship and no longer partnership.

Sort of like a partner in a company deciding their needs are not being met, so (s)he starts to secretly siphon funds from a company, rather than talking about it or dissolving the partnership.  It's skeevy, IMO, and no longer partnership.

[justme]

It's not a complete construct, biologically sex is extremely important for the reproduction of the species.

Any couple can make anything they want to be the important parts/dealbreakers of marriage. Maybe someone would divorce their spouse if they ever watch Star Wars without the other. Sounds silly to some, but it's important to them so going against what you had agreed upon and entered into would be selfish. It just so happens that a lot of people think fidelity in marriage is important. If you don't, there's people out there who think the same way you do and you should seek them out.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2014 12:52:34 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

If you're into or want an open marriage then that's your business.

I don't want or have any interest in an open marriage, part of me marrying DH was the understanding I wouldn't be sleeping with other people and neither would he.

If he were to change that, it'd be a deal breaker for me. I'd find it incredibly selfish for my DH to sleep with someone else then try to tell me it was in order to "save our marriage".

For other people it might not be and they might be fine having an open marriage or decide to bury their heads in the sand. It's their marriage, not mine.

It wouldn't be "to save the marriage". It would be instead of divorce or to get his needs met.

BTW Gel, in this sense I mean need as in what is needed to get the desired result. In this case contentment or happiness. Not what is needed to just survive.

[hoops902]

::It's not a complete construct, biologically sex is extremely important for the reproduction of the species::

It is a complete construct assuming they aren't using sex as reproduction. 

::I think it comes down to what would critically wound the other. ::


Most couples do not talk about every possible action anyone in their life could ever take prior to marriage though. 

::Sort of like a partner in a company deciding his needs are not being met, so (s)he starts to secretly siphon funds from a company, rather than talking about it or dissolving the partnership. It's skeevy, IMO, and no longer partnership.::

Totally different.  That's illegal and is part of the contract in a partnership.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2014 12:55:43 GMT -5 justme said:

It's not a complete construct, biologically sex is extremely important for the reproduction of the species.

Any couple can make anything they want to be the important parts/dealbreakers of marriage. Maybe someone would divorce their spouse if they ever watch Star Wars without the other. Sounds silly to some, but it's important to them so going against what you had agreed upon and entered into would be selfish. It just so happens that a lot of people think fidelity in marriage is important. If you don't, there's people out there who think the same way you do and you should seek them out.

Often people don't know that's how they feel because they have been taught all their life that there is one person out there that you can live happily ever after with. It isn't until they get some life experience that they slowly learn that isn't so.

BTW there are people that cheat that are just selfish assholes. But I don't think we can do an arbitrary judgement that those that cheat are assholes and those that don't are saints.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It wouldn't be "to save the marriage". It would be instead of divorce or to get his needs met

If she "meets his needs" then he's free to go be with her. I have no desire to be in an open marriage.

If she doesn't bring what I have to the table, tough. People aren't perfect and sometimes you need to decide what is more important. I'm not going to stick around so he can get the best of both worlds.

Once I'm gone he's free to seek out his needs from as many women as he pleases.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Is is required that absolutely every single need every single person has is met? It's my opinion that most "needs" are actually "wants", but for the sake of this discussion, I'll use "needs".":::...

OK this statement stuck to me, because I believe that it can very much be about needs or wants not being met.  In my opinion, when a need or want goes unmet long enough, all one can focus on is that its not being met.  Nobody really wants to hear "but you have all these other great things" when something that is important to them is going unmet.  To me, all I hear is "starving African".

I love DW, things have been pretty damn good lately.  We've both been more giving, and there has been a lot less tension and much more harmony.  We aren't fighting about money.  We aren't fighting about chores.  Things I want are happening automatically instead of me having to ask or scheme for them.  Same seems to be true vice versa.  She has really metered out her asks, toned them down, and given more in between them.  I'm quite happy.

Sometimes one just wants something so badly, nothing else matters.  Its easy to dismiss that mindset until its your unmet need.

Others just feel entitled to everything, and genuinely believe that its the other person's problem if they don't "understand".

Others still just can't seem to help themselves.  I had a friend who cheated constantly even when happy.  Not sure what need was being met there, and she knew she was wrong.  Great IM chat that was.  "Hey, how's your boyfriend."  "We broke up.  I cheated again.  I'm such a whore".

[hoops902]

Apr 11, 2014 13:00:18 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Apr 11, 2014 12:53:44 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

You're adding a different circumstance. What if he isn't interested in his wife sexually. Then he finds out she has been having the most amazing freaky deaky sex with a buddy. Does he still have the right to be all upset. He didn't want to have sex with her.

No.. hoops wouldn't mind.. he seems completely okay  with it. 

No, I wouldn't mind actually.  It's just sex.  Absent other changes I don't care.  We'd have a bigger problem if her having sex with someone else resulted in me not getting my dinner on time.

[justme]

Apr 11, 2014 13:02:01 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 11, 2014 12:55:43 GMT -5 justme said:

It's not a complete construct, biologically sex is extremely important for the reproduction of the species.

Any couple can make anything they want to be the important parts/dealbreakers of marriage. Maybe someone would divorce their spouse if they ever watch Star Wars without the other. Sounds silly to some, but it's important to them so going against what you had agreed upon and entered into would be selfish. It just so happens that a lot of people think fidelity in marriage is important. If you don't, there's people out there who think the same way you do and you should seek them out.

Often people don't know that's how they feel because they have been taught all their life that there is one person out there that you can live happily ever after with. It isn't until they get some life experience that they slowly learn that isn't so.

BTW there are people that cheat that are just selfish assholes. But I don't think we can do an arbitrary judgement that those that cheat are assholes and those that don't are saints.

I call BS on that anymore. All the dating sites have options saying you seek an open relationship. Hell, some have options saying you're seeking a third! You've got TV shows about people having more than one relationship at a time. Advice columnists talking about it, making up words like monogamous-ish to describe it. It's not some new fangled, rarely talked about secret any more that those relationships exist.

Not to mention after a couple true "I couldn't help it" incidents of cheating you'd think someone would have some introspection and look around and realize there's open and poly relationships.


I think people that continuously lie and betray me (or people I love) are assholes. (And I'm not talking about white lies "oh that dress is awesome", though I truly hate those lies too) You cannot cheat on me without lying to me and betraying me. You are an asshole to me. If you don't think people that lie to you and betray you aren't assholes, that's your prerogative.

[hoops902]

Apr 11, 2014 13:06:28 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Most couples do not talk about every possible action anyone in their life could ever take prior to marriage though.

Really?  You don't know what is fundamentally important to your wife and what her dealbreakers are? 

I don't think most people go into marriage having discussed "what happens if one day you just decide you don't want to have sex with me anymore (or with anyone anymore)."

I know exactly what her dealbreakers are.  She knows mine as well, even the ones I wasn't supposed to tell her (like if she has a kid and just stays fat, I'm going to sleep with someone hotter).  Most guys are smart enough not to say that to the woman they're engaged to though even if it's true. 

[justme]

::Sort of like a partner in a company deciding his needs are not being met, so (s)he starts to secretly siphon funds from a company, rather than talking about it or dissolving the partnership. It's skeevy, IMO, and no longer partnership.::

Totally different. That's illegal and is part of the contract in a partnership.

Marriage is a legal contract. I would consider the vows the terms of the contract (and states did as well before no fault divorces arose) and most people have fidelity as part of their vows. So infidelity would be breaking a legal contract.

[hoops902]

::I call BS on that anymore. All the dating sites have options saying you seek an open relationship. Hell, some have options saying you're seeking a third! You've got TV shows about people having more than one relationship at a time. Advice columnists talking about it, making up words like monogamous-ish to describe it. It's not some new fangled, rarely talked about secret any more that those relationships exist. ::

You seem to be under the impression, or at least are making the argument, that people enter relationships where sleeping with others is all planned out from the beginning.  I didn't get married to my wife thinking I'm going to sleep around, but I also didn't get married to my wife thinking she'd gain 200 lbs and stop shaving her legs.  If she did, I might start thinking about that.  We certainly weren't looking for an "open relationship", that doesn't mean people's needs don't change after 5, 10, 20 years together.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2014 13:01:25 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Most couples do not talk about every possible action anyone in their life could ever take prior to marriage though. 

::Sort of like a partner in a company deciding his needs are not being met, so (s)he starts to secretly siphon funds from a company, rather than talking about it or dissolving the partnership. It's skeevy, IMO, and no longer partnership.::

Totally different.  That's illegal and is part of the contract in a partnership.

I view them as very similar, particularly after marriage, where there is a formal contract is signed and an oath sworn. 

DH and I have officially agreed to respect each other in spoken word and writing, in front of witnesses even.  That's as formal a contract as it can get.  I take my promises very seriously.  

If decide not to respect him by cutting his vote out, lying to him and sneaking around while he's gone, doing the thing that would hurt him most, I've violated a written and sworn contract.

It's not illegal.  But I would call myself a jerk, if I ever did it.  Just as I would bear slap DH if he did my "no go" and violated our oaths of respect.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't think most people go into marriage having discussed "what happens if one day you just decide you don't want to have sex with me anymore (or with anyone anymore)."

Sex is important to me. Depending on the circumstances surrounding the situation no sex could be a deal breaker. If that were to happen I'd have to have a discussion with DH. We'd need therapy of varying sorts to see if we could make things work.

An open marriage could theoretically be possible but I know what his answer would be to that since I know his stance on cheating.

So I have a choice. I can either be in a sexless marriage or I can leave DH. I don't consider cheating on him to be an option, I consider that to be a cowardly way out b/c it keeps me from having to actually make a decision. As an adult I owe it to my husband to make an actual decision regarding our marriage.

[Deleted]

justme very few parents teach their child that all those other lifestyles are serious options. Most people that choose those options did not start out with that belief system and are closer to midlife when they get there. When you are in those first flushes of lust and love you can't imagine not being blissfully happy forever after with your lover. You have to deal with real life for a few years to figure that out.

Just what is so magical about fidelity.

[hoops902]

Apr 11, 2014 13:13:32 GMT -5 justme said:

::Sort of like a partner in a company deciding his needs are not being met, so (s)he starts to secretly siphon funds from a company, rather than talking about it or dissolving the partnership. It's skeevy, IMO, and no longer partnership.::

Totally different. That's illegal and is part of the contract in a partnership.

Marriage is a legal contract. I would consider the vows the terms of the contract (and states did as well before no fault divorces arose) and most people have fidelity as part of their vows. So infidelity would be breaking a legal contract.

I'm not aware of any vows that talk about not having sex with people.  Maybe you're talking about "forsaking all others"...which means giving up all others.  It's an arbitrary definition to assume that means sex specifically and not forsaking all contact with others, forsaking meaningful conversation with others, forsaking any kind of relationship at al with others.

There's nothing inherent in the marital contract which bars having sex with someone.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2014 13:16:52 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

justme very few parents teach their child that all those other lifestyles are serious options. Most people that choose those options did not start out with that belief system and are closer to midlife when they get there. When you are in those first flushes of lust and love you can't imagine not being blissfully happy forever after with your lover. You have to deal with real life for a few years to figure that out.

Just what is so magical about fidelity.

I'm not sure either, but it's important to DH.  So I respect that.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Sex is nothing special, no different than a handshake or a haircut":::...

Well I AM in the market for a new barber.  I want to go where you go!

...:::"How come hoops is ignoring my question about his wife getting her freak on with another dude?":::...

I'll bite.  It is not OK for a spouse to deny the other a stated need, go out and fulfill that need with someone else, and claim to be the innocent victim.

DW has been after me for some yardwork that I've ducked.  If she finally got fed up and hired a gardener, I really can't be upset.  I'd be mostly upset at myself I guess.

OK lets up the ante: if she had repeatedly said she missed romance, and felt like I never spoke sweet nothings, and I found e-mails with another dude that looked like they were lifted from a romance novel... well it would suck, but I suppose I'd have to at least recognize that I failed to meet a need.

If, however, *I* repeatedly tried to whisper the sweet nothings, and she said "no thanks" and THEN I found those e-mails?  We have a problem.

[hoops902]

::DH and I have officially agreed to respect each other in spoken word and writing, in front of witnesses even. That's as formal a contract as it can get. I take my promises very seriously. ::

He might think that if you don't allow him to have sex with who he wants that you are disrespecting him.  Is that you breaking your vows?  That's the problem with thinking vows like "respect each other" is meaningful.  It relies completely on the person feeling disrespected.

[justme]

Apr 11, 2014 13:15:14 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::I call BS on that anymore. All the dating sites have options saying you seek an open relationship. Hell, some have options saying you're seeking a third! You've got TV shows about people having more than one relationship at a time. Advice columnists talking about it, making up words like monogamous-ish to describe it. It's not some new fangled, rarely talked about secret any more that those relationships exist. ::

You seem to be under the impression, or at least are making the argument, that people enter relationships where sleeping with others is all planned out from the beginning.  I didn't get married to my wife thinking I'm going to sleep around, but I also didn't get married to my wife thinking she'd gain 200 lbs and stop shaving her legs.  If she did, I might start thinking about that.  We certainly weren't looking for an "open relationship", that doesn't mean people's needs don't change after 5, 10, 20 years together.

 And I specifically stated in my first reply that I wasn't talking about people whose spouse refused to have sex with them anymore. I personally would put someone gaining a huge amount of weight as well. Those are different circumstances - you would like and prefer to just keep having sex with your spouse and only your, but they have stopped (or are only giving you a birthday blow job or something). To me that is them unilaterally changing the script and the change needs to be renegotiated (maybe resulting in spouse saying "yup, don't want sex anymore. You go have fun, just don't be an ass parading your sex things around").

It's the ones that NEED to have sex with other people. That "can't help" sleeping with someone else. Ones that it doesn't matter whether you had sex twice a day they'd still be screwing someone at lunch too. Those that will cheat even if you stay the exact same physically and sexually as when you were first married.

[justme]

Apr 11, 2014 13:16:52 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

justme very few parents teach their child that all those other lifestyles are serious options. Most people that choose those options did not start out with that belief system and are closer to midlife when they get there. When you are in those first flushes of lust and love you can't imagine not being blissfully happy forever after with your lover. You have to deal with real life for a few years to figure that out.

Just what is so magical about fidelity.

Very few parents taught their kids to have sex in the bathroom during lunch in 6th grade, but the kids somehow figured it out. The internet, it's a magical place where you can find people that think like you.


It's magical because I want fidelity. I want to be the person my spouse comes home to, shares sex with, talks to, and all that other stuff. Not saying he shouldn't have other important people in his life and other people he goes to for support, but I want to be his main physical and emotional (and only sexual) person in his life and I want my spouse to be the same for me. That if I need to call him to help me out he won't say "sorry, in the midst of having sex sweetie, I'll try and help after".

[hoops902]

::And I specifically stated in my first reply that I wasn't talking about people whose spouse refused to have sex with them anymore. I personally would put someone gaining a huge amount of weight as well. Those are different circumstances - you would like and prefer to just keep having sex with your spouse and only your, but they have stopped (or are only giving you a birthday blow job or something). To me that is them unilaterally changing the script and the change needs to be renegotiated (maybe resulting in spouse saying "yup, don't want sex anymore. You go have fun, just don't be an ass parading your sex things around").::

It doesn't have to be just an unwilling spouse.  Gaining weight like I said, it could be that my tastes have changed over time...maybe now I just LIKE the idea of having sex with other people.  I'm just saying it's not as if everyone who cheats goes into a relationship thinking "ya know, someday I'd like to cheat on them".  I think in fact it's far more likely that it often happens how I've described it.  You go in not really thinking about it, and at some point you decide you want it.

::It's the ones that NEED to have sex with other people. That "can't help" sleeping with someone else.::

What I'm saying is that not everyone who feels this way at 50 had the same feelings at 20.  People change over time.

[hoops902]

::It's magical because I want fidelity. I want to be the person my spouse comes home to, shares sex with, talks to, and all that other stuff.::

You want him to talk to you...if he talks to someone else is that a dealbreaker?  I understand that's important to YOU, that doesn't make it important to everyone else.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't think there is anything "magical" about fidelity but I consider part of marriage.

If I wanted to sleep around I wouldn't get married, I don't see any reason to tie myself to someone legally if I am going to purse other relationships.

I consider cheating to be cowardly b/c, IMO, it is avoiding having to talk to my spouse and make decisions. Instead I can have my cake and eat it too.

As an adult who's made a commitment to another person I should be talking to my husband about how he doesn't meet certain needs. Then together we either try to fix things or part (hopefully amicably). DH should have the right to decide if he wants to work on our marriage or let it go.

Plus it wouldn't be okay with DH if I cheated. He's got very strong opinions on cheating. I owe it to him to decide if he wants to be in an open marriage or not.

Running around behind his back is disrespectful.