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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 8:31:26 GMT -5
I mentioned that two of his sisters were in jail. Well, one of them is also bipolar and a pothead...total freaking loser. She has two daughters ages 7 and 10 and believe it or not actually won joint custody. I don't know HTH that happened because I wouldn't even let her babysit, but she did. Besides the free attorney the state appointed to my ex, he also has two brothers that are attorneys as well, one of them is very good and represented their sister. Thankfully, he's also the one my ex attacked at the birthday party last June and he really likes me, so I don't think he's all up to helping him out, but the old blood loyalty might kick in. Especially with pressure from Mom, the super-enabler. Can you talk to him about this? Would he cut you a break on the fees? Is there a conflict of interest? He would never represent me. His family would seriously disown him.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 21, 2014 8:33:22 GMT -5
But he might be able to get you someone who can help you for a decent price. Attorneys are very very expensive as you well know but you want someone good that will help your son and thereby, you. I'd still go to legal aid. Most people find them worthless but you just might get lucky.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 21, 2014 8:33:46 GMT -5
I wouldn't take anything your son says personally, he's 3 he cannot fathom what's going on with daddy right now.
That being said obessesive + paranioa + mental illness + free access to his kid = NOT GOOD.
A lot of mentally ill parents kill their children b/c they feel that they would be better off dead without them. Or kill them b/c if they can't have them then nobody can.
Your DH is already accusing you of "interfering". He's trying to pressure you into letting him be alone with the child. He just tried to walk off with your kid at the library.
Nobody wants to think that a parent is capable of harming their own child. Even if he didn't physically harm him there is nothing to stop him from kidnapping him and you have no formal custody agreement in place should that happen.
What is worse is it sounds like he has family members who would be perfectly willing to aid him in escaping/hiding. What is to stop mommy dearest from helping to "rescue" his son once he's out of the half way house?
You need to realize that it doesn't matter how much he "cares" about his child. He's mentally unstable and mentally unstable people do a lot of bad things in the name of "caring" b/c their definition of caring and ours are not the same.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Mar 21, 2014 8:34:08 GMT -5
I'm about to walk into work, so won't be back until tonight. What you don't realize is our situations are exactly the same - just different ends of the extreme. It's about control and the way to control the other parent is through the child. If your Ex left the program he's in right now....how would you predict the outcome to go? Would he be able to take care of himself without a lot of outside help? If the answer to that is no (and I'm betting it is), then what makes you think he'll be able to take care of a 3 year old on top of taking care of himself? This isn't a matter of keeping the child from him. This is helping him to help himself first. The Ex cannot have a successful recovery if his energy is pulled in multiple directions like adding a child into the mix would do. I realize you aren't seeing what the rest of us see. It's because your too deep in the weeds of trying to survive. I get that and understand because I had a lot of the same comments you have now. The understanding won't happen overnight. I'm 15years out and you're less than a year. Hang in there. We care about you and your kids! If you ignore all the rest of us, please please please listen to Karaboo. She has been there.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 21, 2014 8:34:29 GMT -5
Oh, I know it's messed up. Trust me. Just saying he's not using DS to get to me. He really is all about the kid and gives him 100% of his attention when they're together. Yesterday when we left DS said he wanted to live with Dad. He is 3. He is not capable of making such a decision or understanding what that phrase means. This. Right now living with Dad = walks to the library to get his brother. And a 100% focus on the boy isn't completely healthy or sane either. I'm not that far out of the 3s to forget that you need to keep a sharp eye on the kids but you have to let them explore independently somewhat too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 8:42:49 GMT -5
The state has determined that your XH can't take care of himself. There is no way in hell they are going to let him have custody of your son. Unless their records show he's improved. Which is why you have to tell them everything he does that is not kosher.
Will you be able to forgive yourself if he manages to snow them and gets out without actually fixing himself and then gets unsupervised custody because "he's healthy according to this piece of paper"??
This is not about being a bitch. This is about accepting nothing less than the best for your son. So figure out what your DH is going to have to do to get unrestricted access to your son and then make sure Dad is keeping up his end or he gets nothing!
If Dad gets healthy they can have a healthy relationship. He shouldn't ever be alone with his sick Dad because Dad figured out how to work the system.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 8:47:57 GMT -5
I'm about to walk into work, so won't be back until tonight. What you don't realize is our situations are exactly the same - just different ends of the extreme. It's about control and the way to control the other parent is through the child. If your Ex left the program he's in right now....how would you predict the outcome to go? Would he be able to take care of himself without a lot of outside help? If the answer to that is no (and I'm betting it is), then what makes you think he'll be able to take care of a 3 year old on top of taking care of himself? This isn't a matter of keeping the child from him. This is helping him to help himself first. The Ex cannot have a successful recovery if his energy is pulled in multiple directions like adding a child into the mix would do. I realize you aren't seeing what the rest of us see. It's because your too deep in the weeds of trying to survive. I get that and understand because I had a lot of the same comments you have now. The understanding won't happen overnight. I'm 15years out and you're less than a year. Hang in there. We care about you and your kids! If you ignore all the rest of us, please please please listen to Karaboo. She has been there. I'm not ignoring. I just have so much to think/worry about right now and I have a hard time focusing on multiple things at once. I end up just shutting down. Even my house that I normally kept immaculate is a mess now because I'm at a point where I just don't know where to start. Everything seems so out of control.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 8:50:04 GMT -5
The state has determined that your XH can't take care of himself. There is no way in hell they are going to let him have custody of your son. Unless their records show he's improved. Which is why you have to tell them everything he does that is not kosher. Will you be able to forgive yourself if he manages to snow them and gets out without actually fixing himself and then gets unsupervised custody because "he's healthy according to this piece of paper"?? This is not about being a bitch. This is about accepting nothing less than the best for your son. So figure out what your DH is going to have to do to get unrestricted access to your son and then make sure Dad is keeping up his end or he gets nothing! If Dad gets healthy they can have a healthy relationship. He shouldn't ever be alone with his sick Dad because Dad figured out how to work the system. He gets out mid May no matter what. They have a men's home he can go to if he doesn't have an apartment lined up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 8:51:15 GMT -5
So are you going to let him come over whenever he wants and take your son wherever he wants to go?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 21, 2014 8:51:36 GMT -5
It's ok MPL. I know that feeling - which is why you need to see someone.
In my case, it was lack of sleep + 2 kids just under 18 months apart + DH's diet stuff + work + trying to keep up on the basics of laundry and dishes at home. I'm still on anti-depressants and I forget to take them 1/2 of the time now. In my defense, I know I'm wrong to not take them but I do think it's time to see my doctor to start weaning me off them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 8:55:34 GMT -5
So are you going to let him come over whenever he wants and take your son wherever he wants to go? It's probably wrong of me to think this way, but I see it as he starts smoking weed again right after getting out, fails the piss test and goes back to jail for the two years that's hanging over his head. But, I do live 15 miles out of town and he doesn't have a car. He does need to come and get his motorhome though. That's the only thing he got in the divorce.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 21, 2014 8:56:22 GMT -5
So are you going to let him come over whenever he wants and take your son wherever he wants to go
You have no custody agreement, there is no stopping him from doing whatever he wants and goign whereever he wants with your son. Unfortunately you cannot be there 24/7. What's to stop him from showing up at school to pick your son up early and disappearing? The house can wait, IMO, nobody should be giving you crap about housekeeping right now. IMO your priority should be getting things moving thru the courts ASAP. You got a little more than a month before he's on the street and there is nothing stopping him from taking his kid. I also wouldn't ever leave him alone with your ex's family either from this point onward. They think nothing is wrong and I can see them helping him "save" his son from you. And again with no custody agreement in place there is no stopping him. You'll have a lot harder time getting kidnapping charges going if he disappers if you don't have anything stating he's not allow to go and do whatever he wants with the child. You're in the weeds so I can understand you're not seeing a pattern, but reading your posts there is a pattern here and it's a HUGE red flag. I really fear this man is going to kidnap your son Minnesota. He's obessesive, he's already been working on you to let him be alone with him and there is no custody agreement. A 3 year old is not going to understand that he should not leave pre-school with daddy right now. The pre-school will not stop him if htere is nothing to say the father cannot pick him up. It's scary shit Minnesota. You need your legal stuff in place so if he tries anything he can be locked up again. But, I do live 15 miles out of town and he doesn't have a car.
Does grandma? Do any of his other busybody relatives who think you're the problem have a car he can borrow? Just b/c he doesn't own a car doesn't mean he can't get one.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 8:57:59 GMT -5
So are you going to let him come over whenever he wants and take your son wherever he wants to go
You have no custody agreement, there is no stopping him from doing whatever he wants and goign whereever he wants with your son. Unfortunately you cannot be there 24/7. What's to stop him from showing up at school to pick your son up early and disappearing? The house can wait, IMO, nobody should be giving you crap about housekeeping right now. IMO your priority should be getting things moving thru the courts ASAP. You got a little more than a month before he's on the street and there is nothing stopping him from taking his kid. I also wouldn't ever leave him alone with your ex's family either from this point onward. They think nothing is wrong and I can see them helping him "save" his son from you. And again with no custody agreement in place there is no stopping him. You'll have a lot harder time getting kidnapping charges going if he disappers if you don't have anything stating he's not allow to go and do whatever he wants with the child. You're in the weeds so I can understand you're not seeing a pattern, but reading your posts there is a pattern here and it's a HUGE red flag. I really fear this man is going to kidnap your son Minnesota. He's obessesive, he's already been working on you to let him be alone with him and there is no custody agreement. A 3 year old is not going to understand that he should not leave pre-school with daddy right now. The pre-school will not stop him if htere is nothing to say the father cannot pick him up. It's scary shit Minnesota. You need your legal stuff in place so if he tries anything he can be locked up again. The court order says any visitation must be supervised. He can't just pick him up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 8:59:38 GMT -5
So are you going to let him come over whenever he wants and take your son wherever he wants to go? It's probably wrong of me to think this way, but I see it as he starts smoking weed again right after getting out, fails the piss test and goes back to jail for the two years that's hanging over his head. But, I do live 15 miles out of town and he doesn't have a car. He does need to come and get his motorhome though. That's the only thing he got in the divorce. I hope he screws up and ends up back in jail too. But if he doesn't, how do you plan on handling him? That is where the court documents come into play. "Here's what the law says you can and can't do. You will end up back in jail if you disobey any of these terms".
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 21, 2014 9:00:50 GMT -5
The court order says any visitation must be supervised. He can't just pick him up
Does the pre-school know that they are not supposed to release your son to him?
If they do that is a start, if they don't you need to make sure the director and everyone else knows that under no circumstances is your son to leave with anyone but you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 9:01:50 GMT -5
The court order says any visitation must be supervised. He can't just pick him up. Are they going to have someone tailing him 24/7? You said he's sneaky. There is a good chance he could get access to your son when you're not around. Do you have anything in place to prevent him from doing that?
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Post by flutterby on Mar 21, 2014 9:02:47 GMT -5
So are you going to let him come over whenever he wants and take your son wherever he wants to go
The court order says any visitation must be supervised. He can't just pick him up. Does it say supervised by whom? What if he shows up with his mom? She's supervising him then, right? Unless it states who can supervise him, that enforcement seems pretty easy to get around.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 9:03:53 GMT -5
The court order says any visitation must be supervised. He can't just pick him up
Does the pre-school know that they are not supposed to release your son to him? If they do that is a start, if they don't you need to make sure the director and everyone else knows that under no circumstances is your son to leave with anyone but you. He's not on the list of approved pick-up people at school (which is just me and my Mom), but in all honesty, I could take home any kid I wanted from there that didn't put up a fight. It's not like the people there are checking the list. You buzz in, go to the room and sign them out. Daycare lady wouldn't let him go with him, but she also couldn't physically stop him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 9:05:21 GMT -5
The court order says any visitation must be supervised. He can't just pick him up. Does it say supervised by whom? What if he shows up with his mom? She's supervising him then, right? Unless it states who can supervise him, that enforcement seems pretty easy to get around. Another reason to have a court document laying out who is able to see your son. If you don't want his family around him or alone with him you petition the court, explain why and they limit contact. You know what's best for your son. Get the paperwork in order so he and his family can't railroad you into putting your son into harm's way. Even if they're doing it "from a place of love".
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 21, 2014 9:05:51 GMT -5
There is nothing stopping grandma from helping him either. Make sure she's on the "do not allow to pick up" list as well.
A lot of relatives will do crazy things in these situations as well thinking they are "helping" b/c they either don't or refuse to grasp teh seriousness of the situation. At a family event his mom may hand off DS to your ex and help them out the back door. After all mommy is "supervising" him while they visit in the living room and you go to the bathroom.
You unfortunately can't have your eyes on your son 24/7. You really need to have everything spelled out to the letter.
"Reasonable" visitation isn't going to cut it once he's out of the halfway house. You also need to get a court ordered supervisor so it doesn't have to be you all the time and mommy can't volunteer to be his supervisor.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 21, 2014 9:13:13 GMT -5
The court order says any visitation must be supervised. He can't just pick him up
Does the pre-school know that they are not supposed to release your son to him? If they do that is a start, if they don't you need to make sure the director and everyone else knows that under no circumstances is your son to leave with anyone but you. He's not on the list of approved pick-up people at school (which is just me and my Mom), but in all honesty, I could take home any kid I wanted from there that didn't put up a fight. It's not like the people there are checking the list. You buzz in, go to the room and sign them out. Daycare lady wouldn't let him go with him, but she also couldn't physically stop him. Wow. DD's school busts any parent not escorted or wearing a badge found inside the halls. And I, personally, have not gotten more than about 30 feet into the hallways before being busted. You have to go to the office (just inside the front door), sign in, get a pass and explain why you're there. It's a mess on field trip days but even then they stick to it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 9:14:53 GMT -5
I didn't read through the whole thread, but wasn't child support and visitation spelled out in your divorce decree? you should also have a support order in place to automatically garnish his wages/unemployment/tax return to pay his monthly child support.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Mar 21, 2014 9:18:45 GMT -5
OK, I'll post on this, but not from the side of anyone who has kids or who has been through it, because I cannot claim either.
I have worked in the criminal justice system, however, and seen exactly this kind of thing in the courts and the correctional systems.
On its current course, it will not end well.
MPL, your X is a sick individual. He cannot and will not be able to stick to a plan, a story or a course of action without help. And from the sound of it, he's nowhere near well enough to handle the reality of dealing with his son. While he may really and truly love the boy, his mind is not capable of handling the day-to-day of it. He can and will do whatever his impulses say to do, and if that means taking him on the run, he will. He has family to help him hide, and I am assuming possibly a passport (?). Your son may not have one, but that may not stop your X from taking him out of the country, to a place with no extradition treaty with the United States. And yes, this does happen. And without a custody agreement in writing, you are severely screwed. You can appeal to no one for help, because you cannot prove your son is supposed to be with you. Rocking the boat is the least of your problems. Your X is under treatment; that is what you need to get yourself to court and show the judge. Get a custody agreement in place. Stick to your guns on when and how your son sees his father. Don't ignore the child's tears and fears; explain to him in simple terms that daddy is sick and needs to be away to get better, and then get yourself and the kids to a safe place, physically and emotionally.
The longer you let him dictate how things will be, the more power you give him. And the more power you give him, the more he takes, and the more power he assumes is his. I'm not dishing out condemnation here; again, he is a sick man. I get that. But his sickness becomes your sickness, and the kids' sickness, if you stick around long enough.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 9:22:29 GMT -5
Well said, Nancy!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 21, 2014 9:31:53 GMT -5
One thing I learned from my mom's experience (my dad has never been officially diagnosed with anything, but I suspect NPD - he lives on a different plane of reality than the rest of us) is that when you're dealing with a mentally unstable person, no matter WHAT you do, he will still find some fault with it. You could allow your ex to have access to your son 24/7 and chauffeur your son to all activities and your ex would still find something to complain about. If not the actual amount of parenting time, then the fact that you're "turning his son against him,"* or that he doesn't like the way you're dressing him, or you need to feed him X instead of Y, etc. If your goal is to get your ex to agree that what you're doing is OK, and to be content with it... I'm sorry, but that probably won't happen, no matter what you do. So don't try to "go along to get along" just to make your ex happy (or get him to leave you alone). It will just make him try to get more out of you. *My mom never said a single negative word about my dad until after we were all 18. Not a single one. But to this day my dad swears the reason none of us want anything to do with him as adults is because my mom brainwashed us. (We were obviously not smart enough to actually see his behavior and draw conclusions from it). There's no reasoning with some people.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 21, 2014 9:38:26 GMT -5
One thing I learned from my mom's experience (my dad has never been officially diagnosed with anything, but I suspect NPD - he lives on a different plane of reality than the rest of us) is that when you're dealing with a mentally unstable person, no matter WHAT you do, he will still find some fault with it. You could allow your ex to have access to your son 24/7 and chauffeur your son to all activities and your ex would still find something to complain about. If not the actual amount of parenting time, then the fact that you're "turning his son against him,"* or that he doesn't like the way you're dressing him, or you need to feed him X instead of Y, etc. If your goal is to get your ex to agree that what you're doing is OK, and to be content with it... I'm sorry, but that probably won't happen, no matter what you do. So don't try to "go along to get along" just to make your ex happy (or get him to leave you alone). It will just make him try to get more out of you. *My mom never said a single negative word about my dad until after we were all 18. Not a single one. But to this day my dad swears the reason none of us want anything to do with him as adults is because my mom brainwashed us. (We were obviously not smart enough to actually see his behavior and draw conclusions from it). There's no reasoning with some people. But it can't possibly be something your dad did wrong. He's perfect!!!!!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 21, 2014 9:46:12 GMT -5
I don't know. I don't trust the Catholic Church. Aren't they going to think she's awful for divorcing a "sick" man? Plus, trust her son to men? MPL, you need to mentally "divorce" yourself from this man. Stop taking his daily calls, stop running errands for him. If he wants a visit, it's $30 because its supervised. If he was truly getting better, he would understand you wanting to make sure his child was safe. He isn't. He is playing you. No. If H and I divorce, I can get my marriage annulled fairly easily, actually. On what grounds does the Church declare nullity for some failed marriages?
In technical language, the most common reasons are insufficiency or inadequacy of judgment (also known as lack of due discretion, due to some factor such as young age, pressure to marry in haste, etc.), psychological incapacity, and absence of a proper intention to have children, be faithful, or remain together until death.
Unfortunately, this is not consistent across the US. My family has dealt with the exact opposite.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Mar 21, 2014 9:50:30 GMT -5
Well said, Nancy! Thanks. I want people to understand that from a personal viewpoint, I have no skin in this. Never had kids, never had an abusive spouse or boyfriend or parent. My view is that of the disinterested third party, as it were. I've seen a lot of broken hearts, hysteria, desperation and penniless parents who spend years and all their money trying to find their kids when they have been taken by the other, non-custodial parent. And this occurs even when there is an agreement. MPL is literally up a very deep and ugly creek without paperwork. No one, and I mean no one, will listen to her without paperwork to prove her case. And I meant what I said about him taking off. Just because our Homeland Security has made things tougher in terms of travel, doesn't mean people don't fake passports, steal passports or smuggle themselves out of this country. It's not that hard to get into Mexico illegally. Canada, maybe, depending on where you cross; but it's a big damned border, and I'll bet her X could find a way to do it.
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Post by imawino on Mar 21, 2014 11:01:59 GMT -5
So are you going to let him come over whenever he wants and take your son wherever he wants to go? It's probably wrong of me to think this way, but I see it as he starts smoking weed again right after getting out, fails the piss test and goes back to jail for the two years that's hanging over his head. I hope you are planning to buy him some weed as a "getting sprung from the halfway house" gift!
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Mar 21, 2014 11:16:41 GMT -5
It's probably wrong of me to think this way, but I see it as he starts smoking weed again right after getting out, fails the piss test and goes back to jail for the two years that's hanging over his head. I hope you are planning to buy him some weed as a "getting sprung from the halfway house" gift! Brownies, cookies or other baked goods. Gives new meaning to bake and shake, I think. Though from the sound of it, he's more likely to leave town than ever accept going back to jail.
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