Does anyone know what happened to Terri?

[mollyanna58]

Mar 21, 2014 11:16:41 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Mar 21, 2014 11:01:59 GMT -5 imawino said:

Though from the sound of it, he's more likely to leave town than ever accept going back to jail.

That could work out.  No visitation if he's hiding from the law.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

That could work out. No visitation if he's hiding from the law

The problem is he may try to take his son with him.  It really freaks me out that he's working so hard to try to get Minnesota to let him be alone with the child. 

That's why she needs a  court ordered supervisor.  They can't be manipulated/guilt tripped by him trying to pull the "good father" card.  Minnesota is too close to the situation to be a supervisor and definetly nobody in his family should be one.

What scares me about the "supervised visits" is there is nothing stopping him from claiming an accomplice is his "supervisor" There is nothing as far as I can tell to spell out exactly WHO has to be with him when he's with the kid.  Minnesota doesn't have a leg to stand on if his mother helps him escape b/c no where does it say that mom can't be his "supervisor".

If she has a court ordered one the visits cna only take place with the court ordered supervisor.  They are not present she can call it in and bring in the law.

[NancysSummerSip]

Mar 21, 2014 11:40:53 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Mar 21, 2014 11:16:41 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Though from the sound of it, he's more likely to leave town than ever accept going back to jail.

That could work out.  No visitation if he's hiding from the law.

True. But my concern is that he would take his son and run and hide. And he has help from his family. And being mentally ill, there is no predicting what he would or could do.
Heck, if he goes on his own, it solves a few problems. Of course, there is also the worry of not knowing where he is or where he could suddenly turn up. Then again, that's always going to be an issue. That's why it's imperative that MPL get to court, get the paperwork done and not think that  things will be fine if she just goes along and plays along like a nice, decent sort of person.
This playing field is not level, and she will not win on it. She cannot even play to a draw. As long as the XH is pulling the emotional strings, she will dance to keep him somewhat stable. Until something else sends him out of bounds, and he's off again.

[raeoflyte]

I touched on this on Debt's thread, but a highschool friend of mine didn't believe in divorce, never had any court documents drawn up between her and the ex and had a distant but amicable relationship with the him.  Until the ex showed up with a cop to take the kids from grandma for missed 'visitation' and he fled the state.  It took almost a month before they got the kids back and getting the courts and police to help them was increasingly difficult because there wasn't anything saying dad couldn't take them out of state. 

I really don't want to pile on MPL or put even more on your plate because if I were in your shoes they probably would have carted me off to the loony bin.  The fact that you're still standing and fighting shows how strong you really are.  But I do think talking to your attorney is necessary now while you have a few weeks before he's released.  

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2014 9:14:53 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

I didn't read through the whole thread, but wasn't child support and visitation spelled out in your divorce decree?  you should also have a support order in place to automatically garnish his wages/unemployment/tax return to pay his monthly child support.

This is the exact wording (with his name and out town blacked out)

[Deleted]

Well, he can't win anything until he can prove he's "medication compliant". So that's good. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think you need to push for sole custody.  There's nothing in there saying he doesn't have every right to come to your home and take the kid .  As long as he is "supervised" and I see nothing saying it has to be you or someone approved by you, which means he could find anybody to be his "supervisor"

It says right there EITHER party can take things to court to modify things.  Honey he's breaking rules left and right at the half way house and calling you constantly.  You don't want the halfway house saying that he is "stablized" when in reality he's been playing them the entire time.   You currently have evidence that they do not.   You need to leverage it before they relase him.

You need to get a lot more stringent rules in place.  He's already been testing you with the Daddy & Me classes and other BS.  He's limited right now in the fact he's stuck at the halfway house.  He has no limitations once he's out, you can bet he's going to push your loosely worded court order to the extreme.

You need hardcore black and white rules so if he puts a toe out of line he'll be put away again.  Right now there is so much grey he can get away with almost anything.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Well, he can't win anything until he can prove he's "medication compliant

Hate to be a Debby Downer but there is nothing stopping him from no longer taking his meds after hte courts find him "compliant". I don't see anything in there about monitoring to make sure he stays on them.

Unfortunately A LOT of mentally ill people stop taking their medication as soon as they are "well" b/c to a mentally ill person that means they don't need them anymore.  They don't understand it's the meds that are doing the work.

Dh does it with his anti-depressants every once and awhile.  He's convinced he doesn't need them anymore  DH is on a pretty mild anti-depressant but his withdrawls are a doozy.  He usually agrees in less than a week to go back on them.

 I'd hate to see what someone with Minn's ex's issues does off his medication.

[Deleted]

My point was that she shouldn't needlessly worry about losing custody of DS any time soon.  So now she can concentrate on keeping him safe. 

[CarolinaKat]

Mar 21, 2014 12:05:55 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I think you need to push for sole custody.  There's nothing in there saying he doesn't have every right to come to your home and take the kid .  As long as he is "supervised" and I see nothing saying it has to be you or someone approved by you, which means he could find anybody to be his "supervisor"

It says right there EITHER party can take things to court to modify things.  Honey he's breaking rules left and right at the half way house and calling you constantly.  You don't want the halfway house saying that he is "stablized" when in reality he's been playing them the entire time.   You currently have evidence that they do not.   You need to leverage it before they relase him.

You need to get a lot more stringent rules in place.  He's already been testing you with the Daddy & Me classes and other BS.  He's limited right now in the fact he's stuck at the halfway house.  He has no limitations once he's out, you can bet he's going to push your loosely worded court order to the extreme.

You need hardcore black and white rules so if he puts a toe out of line he'll be put away again.  Right now there is so much grey he can get away with almost anything.

 That wording is so soft it scares me. What if he moves out of his house and in with relatives and declares that he can keep your soon for days at the time since everything willl be supervised by the relatives living with them?

[CarolinaKat]

Mar 21, 2014 12:09:32 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

My point was that she shouldn't needlessly worry about losing custody of DS any time soon.  So now she can concentrate on keeping him safe. 

He can probably push to be delcared 'compliant' when he graduates from the halfway house. Especically when he is manupliating them into 'gratuating' him on-time

[Deleted]

Well, there is also the fact that he's on probation and being monitored for two years, and one of the conditions of his probation is staying medication compliant.  He also can't drink or even be around people drinking, so it would be really easy to turn him in to his PO for things.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My point was that she shouldn't needlessly worry about losing custody of DS any time soon. So now she can concentrate on keeping him safe

True.  My concern though is the half way house has data saying he IS compliant.  They don't know about the cell phone, which I am betting is where a lot of the 5-6 phone calls a day come from.   Minnesota needs to get her evidence/documentation to the courts first, before the halfway house can declare him ready to be released.

[Deleted]

I do have sole physical custody and my attorney assured me that in MN the legal custody is not a huge deal, that if there are any disagreements on things like school or church or whatever that the court nearly always sides with the one with sole physical.

[Deleted]

What about when you're not in court? It has been pointed out that if you do not have a detailed agreement in writing the police can't do anything to help you.

[raeoflyte]

Mar 21, 2014 12:12:12 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

My point was that she shouldn't needlessly worry about losing custody of DS any time soon. So now she can concentrate on keeping him safe

True.  My concern though is the half way house has data saying he IS compliant.  They don't know about the cell phone, which I am betting is where a lot of the 5-6 phone calls a day come from.   Minnesota needs to get her evidence/documentation to the courts first, before the halfway house can declare him ready to be released.

She's said that all calls are from the halfway house where he is monitored in their office.  They know about the calls, and they will release him whether he's ready or not.  I agree that you don't want them singing his praises, but there isn't much she can do except tell them that he has a cell phone that he isn't supposed to have.  

My sister was in a mental ward and the staff always sided with her and thought we were horribly mean to her (for rehoming 3 of 9 cats, lets not get into the fact that we were the ones caring for the other 6 while she was sick, visited her--and the cats--daily, etc).  I don't think she is going to find an advocate for herself or her son at the halfway house.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think you need sole custody period.  There are way too many potential loopholes in that agreement that would make pursuing him a nightmare should he god forbid skip town with your son.

Plus your son will be assigned an advocate during the process which will take a lot of pressure off of you.  They are imparital so he's not going to be able to get them to dance to whatever tune he decides to paly that day.  You'd have yet another set of eyes and another person to help document.

I don't think she is going to find an advocate for herself or her son at the halfway house.

True but she may find one at the courts if she presents all the ways he's violated the terms w or w/o the half way house's knowledge. 

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2014 12:22:54 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Mar 21, 2014 12:12:12 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

My point was that she shouldn't needlessly worry about losing custody of DS any time soon. So now she can concentrate on keeping him safe

True.  My concern though is the half way house has data saying he IS compliant.  They don't know about the cell phone, which I am betting is where a lot of the 5-6 phone calls a day come from.   Minnesota needs to get her evidence/documentation to the courts first, before the halfway house can declare him ready to be released.

She's said that all calls are from the halfway house where he is monitored in their office.  They know about the calls, and they will release him whether he's ready or not.  I agree that you don't want them singing his praises, but there isn't much she can do except tell them that he has a cell phone that he isn't supposed to have.  

My sister was in a mental ward and the staff always sided with her and thought we were horribly mean to her (for rehoming 3 of 9 cats, lets not get into the fact that we were the ones caring for the other 6 while she was sick, visited her--and the cats--daily, etc).  I don't think she is going to find an advocate for herself or her son at the halfway house.  

Heck, even the call where he was trying to get me to bring him his cell phone was monitored.  He kind of whispered that part, but when I protested, he asked them out loud so that I could hear what would happen to him if he got caught.  He is med compliant there because they administer everything and he goes to all his meetings and counseling sessions. 

Judging by a couple of the people I was sitting next to last night, I'd say they probably consider him to be pretty normal in comparison, and they see him playing with his son and I'm sure he's all he talks about with the staff/residents.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'm really worried about what's going to happen when he gets out.  Sounds like he's played the halfway house perfect and even if he wasn't they don't have the funds/time to really care they just follow the check list.

If I could send you $1k I would.   Is there anybody you could borrow it from?  I think this is one of those circumstances where nobody is going to bat an eye if you need help.  Don't let pride get in the way of doing what needs to be done.

[Deleted]

He just called again, but I didn't answer.  He left a message.  He just got served all the child support stuff that I did yesterday and seemed confused by it.  He was wondering what it was all about and if I knew or if this was something the county did and he said he was intending on supporting him, but he didn't want to have this big back bill because he wasn't going to be making any money for awhile.

He also said he was getting his therapist to write up something saying that he was capable of being with our son without supervision and having it presented to the court.

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2014 12:16:17 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I do have sole physical custody and my attorney assured me that in MN the legal custody is not a huge deal, that if there are any disagreements on things like school or church or whatever that the court nearly always sides with the one with sole physical.

which doesn't say anything about legal custody.  you need to get that fixed.

[CarolinaKat]

Mar 21, 2014 12:34:10 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

He just called again, but I didn't answer.  He left a message.  He just got served all the child support stuff that I did yesterday and seemed confused by it.  He was wondering what it was all about and if I knew or if this was something the county did and he said he was intending on supporting him, but he didn't want to have this big back bill because he wasn't going to be making any money for awhile.

He also said he was getting his therapist to write up something saying that he was capable of being with our son without supervision and having it presented to the court.

Does this not scare you?

[NancysSummerSip]

Mar 21, 2014 12:36:43 GMT -5 CarolinaKat said:

Mar 21, 2014 12:34:10 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

He just called again, but I didn't answer.  He left a message.  He just got served all the child support stuff that I did yesterday and seemed confused by it.  He was wondering what it was all about and if I knew or if this was something the county did and he said he was intending on supporting him, but he didn't want to have this big back bill because he wasn't going to be making any money for awhile.

He also said he was getting his therapist to write up something saying that he was capable of being with our son without supervision and having it presented to the court.

Does this not scare you?

I hope it does. He has a therapist who can be manipulated into writing something in his favor? He thinks he can be with his son unsupervised, yet not make money to support said son?

Nope. Nuh-uh. No way. Not a chance.

The child support issue is his problem, not yours, MPL. Tell him to think of it as incentive to work on getting better. Because the bill is not going away. The state will go after him and find the money.

[justme]

The "reasonable parenting time consistent with his living situation" really scares me. Even more so with your last comment about him talking to his psychiatrists to give him the OK to unsupervised. PLEASE get the court involved and a firm custody that spells out visitation and an advocate for your son. Beg, borrow, and plead with who ever you have to to get the money. Now is not the time to look at it as charity, but as a way to keep your son safe.

[Deleted]

It makes me angry, because it's not like my child support obligations don't exist when they're inconvenient. 

I feel like calling him back and saying, "well, maybe you'll rethink that private school thing now?". 

The child support part is only $300.  And then they have him paying something like $85 towards his health insurance and $150 towards the $500 daycare.

I don't even care if he doesn't pay.  I wish I could trade that for custody. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

He also said he was getting his therapist to write up something saying that he was capable of being with our son without supervision and having it presented to the court

JFC, get into court TODAY while he's still under state supervision.  Minneosota I'm really concerned this guy is getting ready to make off with your kid.   All the red flags are there and it concerns me that you don't seem to see them.  He just tried to isolate you and disappear in the library to "look for big brother".  Now he's telling you he's going to try to get a therapist to convince the courts he can be unsupervised with your son.

If he can be unsupervised when out and you have no formal custody agreement you are fucked with a captial F.  The man can disappear with your child and never return.  It happens all the time.

[giramomma]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I can't say anything better than what Drama did. Know I'm thinking about you, and wish I could help...

[kittensaver]

If he can be unsupervised when out and you have no formal custody agreement you are fucked with a captial F. The man can disappear with your child and never return. It happens all the time.

==================================

Okay MPL, I've stayed quiet until now but I really HAVE to jump in here now. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read this and take it to heart! I work in public mental health and see these child custody issues All.The.Time.

And yes, I've seen our MI clients take off with their kids. And hurt them. And even kill them (and themselves). Sad but true. Please do not let this happen to you!

[CarolinaKat]

Mar 21, 2014 12:44:41 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It makes me angry, because it's not like my child support obligations don't exist when they're inconvenient. 

I feel like calling him back and saying, "well, maybe you'll rethink that private school thing now?". 

The child support part is only $300.  And then they have him paying something like $85 towards his health insurance and $150 towards the $500 daycare.

I don't even care if he doesn't pay.  I wish I could trade that for custody. 

Then do something about getting sole custody. Get an approved list of supervisors for visits. Get a court definition for 'reasonable parenting time. Get a GAL. Fight to protect your son.

I know it's overwhelming, but you're all he has. You can do this.

[Deleted]

The state says he is not competent enough to have a say in anything while he is in the halfway house.  Why are you not using this opportunity to your advantage?

You have until May to get things set up THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO BE. Not the way he thinks it should be. You get the shit in writing and then he either follows it or he loses his chance to see his son.  That's it. 

Wouldn't you like having the ability to ignore all of his begging, pleading, bitching and name calling? Having everything in writing absolves you from being his sounding board.



He can be pissed about it but the only way it will change is if he gets better.  Why wouldn't you get it done?!?!