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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 14:08:55 GMT -5
No. I haven't replied to her. I'm pissed that she's doing this again. Last summer she was more of a pain than he was some times. I had already decided before she sent that that I'd text him about meeting at a park or something after work so they could play. I was also going to use this time to ask him to make arrangements for the motor home (although I do still need to load stuff up in it and the gas line still needs to be fixed. I'd rather do that myself than have him come out to help).
He called me wanting help to figure out a way to get his IRA money out without paying a penalty to get a car. He was hoping there was some hardship rule for long term unemployment, but the only one I know is to pay for medical bills or insurance premiums while unemployed.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 8, 2014 14:18:46 GMT -5
today). His mom texted me saying she thought he was going to ask to go to Daddy and Me and she "thinks he'll be fine, if I would just trust him with this". Did you tell her not a chance in hell? Man, that woman has her head buried in the sand so far I'm surprised she hasn't suffocated yet. Well, I was halfway considering it since it is technically supervised. Only, I'd meet him there and stay and wait for them to come out. I don't think this is a bad idea. He's getting time with his son without him lecturing you. At the end of class you've got to go--see ya' next week! I'd be pissed at his mom though.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Apr 8, 2014 14:21:58 GMT -5
today). His mom texted me saying she thought he was going to ask to go to Daddy and Me and she "thinks he'll be fine, if I would just trust him with this". Did you tell her not a chance in hell? Man, that woman has her head buried in the sand up her ass so far I'm surprised she hasn't suffocated yet. Well, I was halfway considering it since it is technically supervised. Only, I'd meet him there and stay and wait for them to come out. Fixed. And no, Daddy and Me is not supervised. There are other people there; that does not constitute "technically supervised." Say no. Say no, that will not work out. Say goodbye. Then go pack up the motorhome and get it off your property. Stop this halfway, kinda, sorta maybe thinking. Until there is a visitation schedule, the answer is no. And when there is, you will stick to it to the letter. And so will he. No badgering, no interference, no whining from his mommy. His mother has been enabling him all his life. What makes you think she isn't part of a plan to take your son and run? She thinks you should trust your XH, a guy just out of jail...again? MPL, are you listening to yourself? I'm not trying to be mean here, just speaking from the experience of knowing what happens to people in the system who do not take precautions, who trust the people who have already hurt them. I got flamed for doing the Chicken Little thing yesterday, overreacting because other posters thought things were just fine. They aren't. Your XH and his family seem to be able to play you like a well-used guitar. Your XH wants financial advice. His mommy wants you to trust him with his son. Stop it, stop it, stop it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 14:32:01 GMT -5
Well, I was halfway considering it since it is technically supervised. Only, I'd meet him there and stay and wait for them to come out. Fixed. And no, Daddy and Me is not supervised. There are other people there; that does not constitute "technically supervised." Say no. Say no, that will not work out. Say goodbye. Then go pack up the motorhome and get it off your property. Stop this halfway, kinda, sorta maybe thinking. Until there is a visitation schedule, the answer is no. And when there is, you will stick to it to the letter. And so will he. No badgering, no interference, no whining from his mommy. His mother has been enabling him all his life. What makes you think she isn't part of a plan to take your son and run? She thinks you should trust your XH, a guy just out of jail...again? MPL, are you listening to yourself? I'm not trying to be mean here, just speaking from the experience of knowing what happens to people in the system who do not take precautions, who trust the people who have already hurt them. I got flamed for doing the Chicken Little thing yesterday, overreacting because other posters thought things were just fine. They aren't. Your XH and his family seem to be able to play you like a well-used guitar. Your XH wants financial advice. His mommy wants you to trust him with his son. Stop it, stop it, stop it. Well, what IS supervised then? I mean, he's not going to be getting high or telling our son his mom is a stupid effing b***, or driving around with him with no car seat. The only real risk I see is him running, but I don't think he'd do that because he could have a hundred times before. He could get him right now if he really wanted. School let out at 2:15. But, due to my handy dandy phone tracker I know that he's sitting in the cathedral (well, at least his phone is).
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 8, 2014 14:38:20 GMT -5
What does your order say? Supervised by you, or by you and your approved designee?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 14:40:34 GMT -5
What does your order say? Supervised by you, or by you and your approved designee?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 8, 2014 14:42:29 GMT -5
I don't think there is anything wrong with saying no to this particular Daddy & Me class. You should at least have a chance to talk to your lawyer before diving back into all this crap.
I wouldn't respond to mommy dearest at all from this point forward. She has no business getting in the middle. She bullied her sister into taking him in, he's HER problem now. She needs to stop texting you and lay in the bed she just made herself.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Apr 8, 2014 14:43:01 GMT -5
Fixed. And no, Daddy and Me is not supervised. There are other people there; that does not constitute "technically supervised." Say no. Say no, that will not work out. Say goodbye. Then go pack up the motorhome and get it off your property. Stop this halfway, kinda, sorta maybe thinking. Until there is a visitation schedule, the answer is no. And when there is, you will stick to it to the letter. And so will he. No badgering, no interference, no whining from his mommy. His mother has been enabling him all his life. What makes you think she isn't part of a plan to take your son and run? She thinks you should trust your XH, a guy just out of jail...again? MPL, are you listening to yourself? I'm not trying to be mean here, just speaking from the experience of knowing what happens to people in the system who do not take precautions, who trust the people who have already hurt them. I got flamed for doing the Chicken Little thing yesterday, overreacting because other posters thought things were just fine. They aren't. Your XH and his family seem to be able to play you like a well-used guitar. Your XH wants financial advice. His mommy wants you to trust him with his son. Stop it, stop it, stop it. Well, what IS supervised then? I mean, he's not going to be getting high or telling our son his mom is a stupid effing b***, or driving around with him with no car seat. The only real risk I see is him running, but I don't think he'd do that because he could have a hundred times before. He could get him right now if he really wanted. School let out at 2:15. But, due to my handy dandy phone tracker I know that he's sitting in the cathedral (well, at least his phone is). Exactly. He could leave his phone anywhere, you'd think you know where it is and you'd be right. But you'd also be wrong. Because he may not be with it. Supervised is what the courts decide is supervised. That's why the paperwork matters. If the courts decide Daddy and Me is a sufficiently supervised program, then fine. In the best of all possible worlds, "supervised" means constant watching by people who know the situation and know what to look for if he decides to be an ass and run. Yes, he could have done it before, but maybe there were reasons he didn't. Maybe he wasn't mad enough. Maybe this most recent jail stint, plus the embarrassment of not having any family who wanted to take him in, plus not having any money (other than an IRA he cannot use) will finally do it. He's a sick dude, and there's no telling what may push him over the edge. But OK, go ahead and let him take your son to Daddy and Me. For all I know, it could be fine. I don't plan to read this thread any longer to find out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 14:47:37 GMT -5
Court didn't decide anything, it never even went to court. This is what I put in there. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I'm trying to do right by everyone.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 8, 2014 14:49:57 GMT -5
Court didn't decide anything, it never even went to court. This is what I put in there. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I'm trying to do right by everyone. The only people you need to do right by are your sons. And your son(s) will be better off with a set schedule for visitation.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 8, 2014 14:53:34 GMT -5
Some of us disagreed with your assertion that MPL was in immediate danger because her X was going to cut the ankle bracelet off his leg and abscond with their son. Disagreement with an opinion is not flaming.
MPL, just call your attorney and tell him what has happened over the past couple of days. Don't worry about your X or his mom. They can wait.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 8, 2014 15:03:54 GMT -5
What I would do is continue to call my attorney's office (actually, since you wrote an email almost a week ago I think I'd go down to the office myself and sit there until I could talk to my lawyer) until I got him on the phone, explained the situation, and asked him what to do. Actually I might tell him "I want sole legal custody to go with the sole physical custody I already have and I want a set, specific visitation schedule with a disinterested, secure person to supervise visitation. Can I get that?"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 15:13:28 GMT -5
He just returned my call from this morning, but he can't meet with me until next Thursday at 4:15 and he was running off to court so couldn't talk long. He asked what I wanted written in an order and I didn't know, but I did say I didn't want to supervise and I wanted a schedule.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 8, 2014 15:15:39 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 8, 2014 15:15:37 GMT -5
Make sure to add you don't want mom being a supervisor either if he is actually willing to rationally discuss things (and make sure you make that clear to your lawyer too). Close that loophole. Ideally the supervisor should be a court appointed neutral third party.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 8, 2014 15:15:56 GMT -5
I'd go with what justme said
"I want sole legal custody to go with the sole physical custody I already have and I want a set, specific visitation schedule with a disinterested, secure person to supervise visitation."
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 8, 2014 15:17:27 GMT -5
I'd go with what justme said "I want sole legal custody to go with the sole physical custody I already have and I want a set, specific visitation schedule with a disinterested, non-family secure person to supervise visitation." Fixed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 15:23:22 GMT -5
So who are these set, disinterested, non-family people if not the $35/hour social services ones? I know, I'm going to hear a lot of "not your problem" stuff, but I really DON'T want to hinder him having a relationship with his son.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 8, 2014 15:27:42 GMT -5
If you get a court appointed one, do you still have to pay them? But, realistically, you're going to have to accept that HE is the one hindering him having a relationship with his son. He has money to spend on other stuff - a new car, a new business - if he can't scrounge up $35 every week or two to see his son, what does that say about him? Plus he has an enabling mother that would probably shell out the cash for it.
Or you'll just have to keep putting yourself through the hell of being the supervisor unless you have a friend or pastor (not his) or your family member willing to do it for you.
ETA: A quote from the new show Reign is stuck in my head "I would go into hell for my son, how far will you go?" Different context in the show, but I think it fits. You FIND a way to do the necessary things for your children, and he should be no exception to that.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 8, 2014 15:27:59 GMT -5
So who are these set, disinterested, non-family people if not the $35/hour social services ones? I know, I'm going to hear a lot of "not your problem" stuff, but I really DON'T want to hinder him having a relationship with his son. What's wrong with the $35 an hour ones? If that's the only way to see his son, I bet he'll find the money somehow.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 8, 2014 15:29:48 GMT -5
So who are these set, disinterested, non-family people if not the $35/hour social services ones? I know, I'm going to hear a lot of "not your problem" stuff, but I really DON'T want to hinder him having a relationship with his son. Mentally ill, out-of-control people are not capable of having decent relationships. Ask me how I know this No matter WHAT you do, you WILL be accused of SOMETHING. That's part and parcel of the illness. You have to STOP making excuses for him and protect yourself and your son. Sigh, I'm joining Nancy in exiting this thread. Good luck whatever you decide.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 8, 2014 15:33:07 GMT -5
It's not hindering him having a relationship with his son. It's accepting reality as it is and putting boundaries in place. Nobody said it has to be a forever type set-up.
But it should be set-up until such a time he has proven to YOU that he is on the right path (and you have the right to set whatever benchmarks that may be in tandem with approval from the court). Your 3 year old isn't capable of determining if daddy is healthy enough to be a good daddy or not.
Like I said before if he were as serious about being a good father as him and his mother claim him to be he'd be the one jumping every time YOU say boo. Not the other way around.
Or you can continue with your current set up, or you can risk having his mother volunteer to be the supervisor or you can hope that a trusted family member or friend of yours will be willing to take on this duty, which is a lot to ask. It's your choice who you want to be supervisor. But you really need to stop thinking you're the one messing things up, you're not. Your ex is being given several opportunities here to clean up his act and has so far blown at least one of them otherwise his butt wouldn't have landed back in jail. You have every right to hold out until he proves he's not going to blow chance #2.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 8, 2014 15:38:09 GMT -5
The money he gave you for his phone would've paid for 5 of those visits...
Can someone from church do it?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 15:46:08 GMT -5
The money he gave you for his phone would've paid for 5 of those visits... Can someone from church do it? Yeah, but it also paid for a month of our groceries... He's broke now though. Unemployment ran out two weeks ago. I don't think he realizes that yet, but I found out from social services working on the child support case. I don't even know how he's going to pay the $850 rent at the men's home. He's cashing in the IRA to get a car. I can try church. I don't go, but I still know a couple people there and they all know him. He's a lector and spends a lot of time in confession.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 8, 2014 18:14:33 GMT -5
Well, what IS supervised then? I mean, he's not going to be getting high or telling our son his mom is a stupid effing b***, or driving around with him with no car seat. The only real risk I see is him running, but I don't think he'd do that because he could have a hundred times before. The Mommy and Me class doesn't know what's going on and will grant X the benefit of the doubt we all grant strangers out of courtesy. If he wants to spend the class sitting in the corner telling your son that his mom is a stupid effing b****, they're not going to stop him and you'll never know. If he excuses himself to go to the bathroom and spends 10 minutes in there getting high, they're not going to know and even if his behavior is off, they're not going to call him on it. He can do all sorts of inappropriate things without anyone knowing or caring.
Supervised visitation is when an adult sits within earshot of the child at all times. The adult has to be aware of the situation so can be on the lookout for anything suspicious or for signs the situation may start ramping up. None of that is the case when X is in a room full of strangers who don't know or care what his issues are and are conditioned by society to politely ignore any weird behavior they see.
As for the idea that he won't run because he hasn't before - that's a weak reason. I'm not going Chicken Little and asserting that he WILL run, but if you're basing your hope that he won't run on the fact that he hasn't before, that's probably not very strong evidence. He hadn't hit you before the first time he actually hit you, right? I have no idea if he would try to run or not, but I do know that for the vast majority of parental kidnappings or cases where a parent harms a child, it's the first time.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 8, 2014 18:25:19 GMT -5
The money he gave you for his phone would've paid for 5 of those visits... Can someone from church do it? Yeah, but it also paid for a month of our groceries... He's broke now though. Unemployment ran out two weeks ago. I don't think he realizes that yet, but I found out from social services working on the child support case. I don't even know how he's going to pay the $850 rent at the men's home. He's cashing in the IRA to get a car. I can try church. I don't go, but I still know a couple people there and they all know him. He's a lector and spends a lot of time in confession. Oh, be very, very careful with this idea if it's his church. The entire premise of a Christian church is forgiveness. Not a bad thing, but not what you need in a supervisor who you are counting on to keep your son safe.
The supervisor needs to be someone independent - meaning not from his church. Not one of his family members. Not one of his friends.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 21:05:02 GMT -5
Well, what IS supervised then? I mean, he's not going to be getting high or telling our son his mom is a stupid effing b***, or driving around with him with no car seat. The only real risk I see is him running, but I don't think he'd do that because he could have a hundred times before. The Mommy and Me class doesn't know what's going on and will grant X the benefit of the doubt we all grant strangers out of courtesy. If he wants to spend the class sitting in the corner telling your son that his mom is a stupid effing b****, they're not going to stop him and you'll never know. If he excuses himself to go to the bathroom and spends 10 minutes in there getting high, they're not going to know and even if his behavior is off, they're not going to call him on it. He can do all sorts of inappropriate things without anyone knowing or caring.
Supervised visitation is when an adult sits within earshot of the child at all times. The adult has to be aware of the situation so can be on the lookout for anything suspicious or for signs the situation may start ramping up. None of that is the case when X is in a room full of strangers who don't know or care what his issues are and are conditioned by society to politely ignore any weird behavior they see.
As for the idea that he won't run because he hasn't before - that's a weak reason. I'm not going Chicken Little and asserting that he WILL run, but if you're basing your hope that he won't run on the fact that he hasn't before, that's probably not very strong evidence. He hadn't hit you before the first time he actually hit you, right? I have no idea if he would try to run or not, but I do know that for the vast majority of parental kidnappings or cases where a parent harms a child, it's the first time.
Actually, they do know what's going on. The class is through Early Childhood and Family Education which is a program through Family Services in our county (the same general department that runs the halfway house, collects child support, etc., and he has a case worker with them for parenting education. Plus, I've been in email contact with a couple people there (although not the actual teacher of that particular class). He never brought up the class anyhow. He sent me a text message asking very nicely if I could schedule some time whenever it worked for me to see his son. No, I'm in town I want to see him and no telling me his plans and having me have to shoot them down. I told him I could meet him at a park after work since I would be busy Wednesday and Thursday. It went well. He apologized for being pushy yesterday and not taking my feelings into consideration and they played for about an hour and a half. I brought up getting the motorhome and it sounds like he has some plans for where to put it and offered to come up to fix it so it could be driven, but I said I'd get it taken care of since I still needed to load stuff up in it anyhow.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 8, 2014 22:26:03 GMT -5
OK, good. Sounds like so far, so good. Sending good wishes that it continues that way.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 8, 2014 22:32:50 GMT -5
Well, what IS supervised then? I mean, he's not going to be getting high or telling our son his mom is a stupid effing b***, or driving around with him with no car seat. The only real risk I see is him running, but I don't think he'd do that because he could have a hundred times before.
As for the idea that he won't run because he hasn't before - that's a weak reason. I'm not going Chicken Little and asserting that he WILL run, but if you're basing your hope that he won't run on the fact that he hasn't before, that's probably not very strong evidence. He hadn't hit you before the first time he actually hit you, right? I have no idea if he would try to run or not, but I do know that for the vast majority of parental kidnappings or cases where a parent harms a child, it's the first time.
I don't think that MPL can do much more to protect against this possible scenario. I know very, very little about these situations, and maybe I missed something...but what I have picked up is that the courts, at least in my state, want kids with their parents. The court documents really only give you better and hopefully faster recourse if one party breaks an agreement anyway in my opinion. She has sole custody and the divorce decree states visits must be supervised. Without a specific incident is it likely that the courts will do anything else to help her against a possibility that he could kidnap his son?
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Apr 8, 2014 22:51:59 GMT -5
OK, good. Sounds like so far, so good. Sending good wishes that it continues that way. MPL
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