Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 18, 2014 18:51:23 GMT -5
Ms T.:I think you are confusing me with another poster. I was piss poor and my mother was a drunk but I as never abused. Neglected yes, but never abused. Yea, I suck at doing quotes.
I'm not confusing you with another poster, I just equate neglected with abuse. I think that it is just because I had a similar upbringing, and "I" consider the neglect that I went through as abuse.
My apologies.
No apologies necessary. You are right, neglect is abuse. Because of the subject in this thread I thought you thought I was physically abused. When I think of kids neglected I do consider it abuse. It is funny though because I never considered myself abused. I was very self-sufficient from a young age so I had no issues taking care of myself. It is either that or I'm in denial that I ever suffered abuse...that would shoot to shit my "I wouldn't let that happen to me" stance :-p
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 19:20:06 GMT -5
I say that...but I honestly can't imagine EVER putting up with someone abusing me. I just don't. I am the first one to say that I don't understand someone else putting up with it because I really just don't. I also don't understand people not living within their means...there's a lot I don't understand ExH never abused me physically. But emotionally he smothered me until I almost disappeared. It was so gradual that I didn't see it and I honestly believe that wasn't his intention.
But I came from an abusive household and I didn't recognize that it was just another person trying to control me, in a different way.
So many things I understood clearly-I only had to be a victim if I chose to as an adult-and yet it crept up on me.
So "I would never... intentionally let anyone treat me that way."
Dang, Malarky, get out of my head!
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 18, 2014 19:39:39 GMT -5
That is me. I have a very strong personality so it is beyond comprehension to me. But I've also heard if women who I also considered very strong that were victims of domestic violence. People I would never expect to ever put up with it. And there I am. I am very strong. But I didn't recognize how I was being smothered. Strike me once and I will walk away. Verbally abuse me and I'm out of here. But to gradually withdraw from the world and take me with you? I didn't see it for a long, long time.
I also didn't see how an ex was systematically isolating me from my friends until after we broke up for good and I realized how much time I'd lost. I think what finally made him piss me off enough to walk away was that he realized I didn't NEED him, that I could provide well enough for myself, and he turned into an even bigger douche - he ended up marrying a mutual friend of ours within a year after we broke up for good. better her than me, I say now. I grew up in a house with my mom and Nana. my grandfather passed away when my mom was 11, so mom spent her teen years watching my strong Nana live as a single mother in the 60s - who didn't drive, and who made it all work off my grandfather's pension and their savings so she didn't have to find a full time job until her kids were all out of HS. between the two very strong women that raised me, they did an amazing job of putting a spirit in me that says "if you're going to hit me, you'd better make sure it lands....because if I get up, you won't." but the mental abuse can be sneaky... it hurts to watch friends go through it, and I'm sure it hurt my friends to watch me go through it. you can't tell someone what they aren't willing to see on their own.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 19, 2014 7:30:26 GMT -5
Most abusers don't come out swinging on the first date. They can be very charming, considerate, and loving. It's a lot easier to rationalize someone else's abusive behavior when you're emotionally/financially/physically invested in the relationship, and abusers are very aware of this. Also keep in mind that the "you" who says "I would never..." is not always the same person who actually puts up with the abuse. Months or years of very subtle psychological conditioning can change your threshold for certain behaviors. Just because someone gets involved in a DV situation does not mean s/he is a weak personality. I've seen it happen to people who were very strong outwardly, and in many other ways. You never would have guessed. Not getting into details because they're not my stories to tell, but let's just say that you can be strong and still be a victim. Especially if you don't know any better because you grew up with dysfunction and your "circle" treats it as normal.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 19, 2014 7:34:22 GMT -5
Oh, and Terri's husband was an alcoholic who also smoked pot and abused Percocet on a regular basis. He seemed to also have some serious mental instability, possibly depression or manic depression.
He never hit her (that we heard about, anyway), but during the course of the thread he grabbed the back of her head and she thought he might hit her, and then there was another incident where he smashed a mirror that was hanging on the refrigerator in front of their kids and screamed that he was going to smash up their second house. She called the police that time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 8:24:56 GMT -5
Most abusers don't come out swinging on the first date. They can be very charming, considerate, and loving. It's a lot easier to rationalize someone else's abusive behavior when you're emotionally/financially/physically invested in the relationship, and abusers are very aware of this. Also keep in mind that the "you" who says "I would never..." is not always the same person who actually puts up with the abuse. Months or years of very subtle psychological conditioning can change your threshold for certain behaviors. So. Much. This. Nobody who knew/knows me would ever believe I'd put up with much of anything either, and I'll admit, the younger me didn't understand women in abusive relationships either. Then one day not only do I find myself getting punched in the face but feeling like it's MY fault. WTF happened In my case, it was mental illness that got progressively worse especially after a couple bad medication choices. He really was an incredibly charming, loving man for years and the first few years we were together were undoubtedly some of the happiest times of my life, but once things started to go downhill, he really knew how to make it seem like it was my issue and not his and my self-esteem plummeted.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 19, 2014 8:46:44 GMT -5
minnesotapaintlady, I've only heard bits and pieces of your story but I'm so glad you got out of that situation. You're to be commended for coming so far on your own, especially with children. I think you're awesome. Some people start out awful and dysfunctional, and that's no less tragic - but I have to admit that it's stories like yours which really put the fear of God in me. DH and I have a good marriage - no perfect, but a strong partnership with a lot of love and respect and commitment. And it sounds like you did too... until you didn't. I realize that could happen to me (or DH) and it just freaks me out. I can't imagine getting from where I am now to the point where I didn't give a damn anymore about what happened to DH or Babybird, but people do. It happens all the time. And then the rest of their family has to dig out of an awful situation and pick up the pieces, like you did. I just hope if the worst ever does happen to our family, we'll weather it with as much grace as you did (and do).
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 19, 2014 8:52:57 GMT -5
I think that's why I'm so afraid to marry DF. My EX was nice, too, but almost the minute we were married, things started to change. I see it now but of course I didn't then. I thought it was the normal compromises that people make, except I was doing all the compromising.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 8:58:47 GMT -5
Firebird I may be divorced, but I am so not out of this situation. In many ways it's worse now and for the first time ever in my life the future actually scares me. Not sure what I'm going to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 9:00:54 GMT -5
I think that's why I'm so afraid to marry DF. My EX was nice, too, but almost the minute we were married, things started to change. I see it now but of course I didn't then. I thought it was the normal compromises that people make, except I was doing all the compromising. I'm completely paranoid at this point. I can't see ever remarrying.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 19, 2014 9:05:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear that. I got the impression you were past the worst of it now that you're divorced. As I said, I've only heard small parts of your story here and there. I wish I could say something helpful but I really can't. I've never been in that situation and I can't imagine how you pull through it. I still think you're awesome, though, and I'm so very much rooting for you and your family.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 9:18:01 GMT -5
Now comes co-parenting with someone that really isn't up to it, but doesn't quite get that. He also only gets supervised visitation, but I'm the supervisor, so I have to sit there and like last weekend listen to him preach to me about the fate of my eternal soul and go on about all his plans and I have to say, "no, you can't take our son to another town on Saturday" and have him flip out on me.
He's also not totally "getting" the whole divorced thing. He calls me with requests for things he needs, like "can you bring me the hand sanitizer from under the kitchen sink". Ok, he hasn't lived here for 10 months, that hand sanitizer he's thinking of was probably bought in 2012 and it's not OURS anymore, it's MINE.
Honestly, if it wasn't for older son needing to be near his Dad, I'd sell everything I own and leave town. Go live with family in Hawaii for a couple years or something. I need to just be away from him. He messes with my head so bad.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 19, 2014 9:21:23 GMT -5
Wow. That is all I can say. ETA: I'm also really sorry you're going through this. And will continue to go through this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 9:29:29 GMT -5
Oh, and he has a free attorney, but mine costs $260/hour. So, whenever he threatens to call his attorney I cringe, because even if it's frivolous and he won't have a chance of winning, I'm still going to have to pay to defend myself.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 19, 2014 10:09:18 GMT -5
Oh, and he has a free attorney, but mine costs $260/hour. So, whenever he threatens to call his attorney I cringe, because even if it's frivolous and he won't have a chance of winning, I'm still going to have to pay to defend myself. having been that free attorney, the last thing the free attorney wants to do is file frivolous contempt/enforcement suits. They have enough to do that has a valid basis.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 19, 2014 10:25:29 GMT -5
MPL, how old is older son?
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Mar 19, 2014 10:40:33 GMT -5
Now comes co-parenting with someone that really isn't up to it, but doesn't quite get that. He also only gets supervised visitation, but I'm the supervisor, so I have to sit there and like last weekend listen to him preach to me about the fate of my eternal soul and go on about all his plans and I have to say, "no, you can't take our son to another town on Saturday" and have him flip out on me. He's also not totally "getting" the whole divorced thing. He calls me with requests for things he needs, like "can you bring me the hand sanitizer from under the kitchen sink". Ok, he hasn't lived here for 10 months, that hand sanitizer he's thinking of was probably bought in 2012 and it's not OURS anymore, it's MINE. Honestly, if it wasn't for older son needing to be near his Dad, I'd sell everything I own and leave town. Go live with family in Hawaii for a couple years or something. I need to just be away from him. He messes with my head so bad. MPL, like everyone here I am sorry that this is going on. Can you have a court-appointed advocate or social worker there for the supervision? It really seems like a not-great idea for you to be the supervisor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 10:41:21 GMT -5
MPL, how old is older son? He'll be 12 in July.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 19, 2014 10:43:13 GMT -5
Now comes co-parenting with someone that really isn't up to it, but doesn't quite get that. He also only gets supervised visitation, but I'm the supervisor, so I have to sit there and like last weekend listen to him preach to me about the fate of my eternal soul and go on about all his plans and I have to say, "no, you can't take our son to another town on Saturday" and have him flip out on me. He's also not totally "getting" the whole divorced thing. He calls me with requests for things he needs, like "can you bring me the hand sanitizer from under the kitchen sink". Ok, he hasn't lived here for 10 months, that hand sanitizer he's thinking of was probably bought in 2012 and it's not OURS anymore, it's MINE. Honestly, if it wasn't for older son needing to be near his Dad, I'd sell everything I own and leave town. Go live with family in Hawaii for a couple years or something. I need to just be away from him. He messes with my head so bad. MPL, like everyone here I am sorry that this is going on. Can you have a court-appointed advocate or social worker there for the supervision? It really seems like a not-great idea for you to be the supervisor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 10:44:12 GMT -5
Most abusers don't come out swinging on the first date. They can be very charming, considerate, and loving. It's a lot easier to rationalize someone else's abusive behavior when you're emotionally/financially/physically invested in the relationship, and abusers are very aware of this. Also keep in mind that the "you" who says "I would never..." is not always the same person who actually puts up with the abuse. Months or years of very subtle psychological conditioning can change your threshold for certain behaviors. This is very true. When I first met who I call "crazy man", he actually seemed a little shy. I remember he use to say he didn't want to make me run away. Now I understand where that was coming from. I was older than the women he usually dates and I had my own stuff, could take care of myself without a man, so since I didn't NEED him in the way most of the women he deals with think they do, it would be easier for me to walk when his true self came to light. But it still was hard. Because I'd been reeled in by this really nice, fun guy that did nice things for me. I wasn't in love, but I did really like him. And yes, my threshold for certain behaviors changed, I put up with things I never thought I would have. I didn't pretend his behavior was ok, actually I started reacting to him just as badly as he would act. I started to realize that not only did I dislike the person he'd started showing me he really was, I also didn't like who I was when I dealt with that person. It wasn't worth it. I've read that abusers are pretty accurate at picking potential victims. I've often wondered what it was about me that drew him to me. Whatever it was, I need to work on improving it, because I don't need to attract another one like him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 10:44:53 GMT -5
Now comes co-parenting with someone that really isn't up to it, but doesn't quite get that. He also only gets supervised visitation, but I'm the supervisor, so I have to sit there and like last weekend listen to him preach to me about the fate of my eternal soul and go on about all his plans and I have to say, "no, you can't take our son to another town on Saturday" and have him flip out on me. He's also not totally "getting" the whole divorced thing. He calls me with requests for things he needs, like "can you bring me the hand sanitizer from under the kitchen sink". Ok, he hasn't lived here for 10 months, that hand sanitizer he's thinking of was probably bought in 2012 and it's not OURS anymore, it's MINE. Honestly, if it wasn't for older son needing to be near his Dad, I'd sell everything I own and leave town. Go live with family in Hawaii for a couple years or something. I need to just be away from him. He messes with my head so bad. MPL, like everyone here I am sorry that this is going on. Can you have a court-appointed advocate or social worker there for the supervision? It really seems like a not-great idea for you to be the supervisor. I don't know. I have to do something. They are going to start a new supervised visitation center come July that is free, but right now if you go through family services it's $30/hour. There's no way either one of us can afford it. People say, tough, if he wants to see him make him pay, but then I get the wrath of him and his family that I'm intentionally trying to keep him away from his son, which isn't it at all. I just don't want to supervise. Then I get told to take the supervised out or let his family do it. Ugh. When I balk, I'm being ridiculous.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 19, 2014 10:49:25 GMT -5
Then I get told to take the supervised out or let his family do it
Hell no! It sounds like his family is a bunch of enablers, who knows what would happen if they supervised. And he absolutely should not be left alone with the child. FWIW as an outsider I think you're 100% doing the right thing. Your obligations are to your son and only your son, not your husband and definetly not his relatives.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 19, 2014 10:56:05 GMT -5
How do you have to be the supervisor? That is so f'd up. I'm sorry MPL. We have 'supervision centers' for lack of a better term where kids can spend time in a common room with the parent who requires supervision with staff who monitor the interactions. Eta- started this post before I saw everything else mol posted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 11:14:05 GMT -5
How do you have to be the supervisor? That is so f'd up. I'm sorry MPL. We have 'supervision centers' for lack of a better term where kids can spend time in a common room with the parent who requires supervision with staff who monitor the interactions. It was a whirlwind divorce. Written up, completed and signed off by the judge in only a couple weeks. I think normally it would have been us battling over custody and an attorney would have been assigned to our son and things would have been written up better with more specific instructions, but as it was, my attorney wrote it, he signed and that was that, it was over without ever stepping foot in a court room.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Mar 19, 2014 11:28:19 GMT -5
MPL- See if you can contact a local CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate) or v-GAL (volunteer Guardian ad Litum) group in your area. They may not be able to help you, because they may only work with foster kids, but at the same time, they might. CASA/vGALs do a lot of supervising visits, and they are FREE. They are, however, only responsible to the court and to your child. They are not there to be an advocate for any of the adults involved, only for the kids.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Mar 19, 2014 12:01:18 GMT -5
Firebird I may be divorced, but I am so not out of this situation. In many ways it's worse now and for the first time ever in my life the future actually scares me. Not sure what I'm going to do.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 19, 2014 21:19:23 GMT -5
I think that's why I'm so afraid to marry DF. My EX was nice, too, but almost the minute we were married, things started to change. I see it now but of course I didn't then. I thought it was the normal compromises that people make, except I was doing all the compromising. Zib, I don't think you are alone, for many varied reasons people 50-60+ are remaining single/maintaining separate finances. People no longer care so much if people are married or not.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 19, 2014 21:35:24 GMT -5
MPL, like everyone here I am sorry that this is going on. Can you have a court-appointed advocate or social worker there for the supervision? It really seems like a not-great idea for you to be the supervisor. I don't know. I have to do something. They are going to start a new supervised visitation center come July that is free, but right now if you go through family services it's $30/hour. There's no way either one of us can afford it. People say, tough, if he wants to see him make him pay, but then I get the wrath of him and his family that I'm intentionally trying to keep him away from his son, which isn't it at all. I just don't want to supervise. Then I get told to take the supervised out or let his family do it. Ugh. When I balk, I'm being ridiculous. MPL. My Dad was BiPolar. His faith in God and his complete love for his family always motivated him to take his meds and fight to get well. Mom & Dad belonged to the same church for over 50 years. By the time Dad passes he had been bedridden for a long time and had not been to church in 5+ years. There were over 200 people in attendance at the funeral. One couple traveled 4 hours to attend and another 5. When Mom thanked the one friend for attending, she said her husband always admired my Dad. I think it was his constant positive attitude and faith in God. Your ex can get well and have a positive influence on your son. The focus on God is common for those that are mentally ill. Hopefully when your ex gets healthier he will not be so focused on religion. Hugs.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Mar 19, 2014 21:35:32 GMT -5
Firebird I may be divorced, but I am so not out of this situation. In many ways it's worse now and for the first time ever in my life the future actually scares me. Not sure what I'm going to do. Yeah that. (((((hugs))))) MPL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 21:58:23 GMT -5
I don't know. I have to do something. They are going to start a new supervised visitation center come July that is free, but right now if you go through family services it's $30/hour. There's no way either one of us can afford it. People say, tough, if he wants to see him make him pay, but then I get the wrath of him and his family that I'm intentionally trying to keep him away from his son, which isn't it at all. I just don't want to supervise. Then I get told to take the supervised out or let his family do it. Ugh. When I balk, I'm being ridiculous. MPL. My Dad was BiPolar. His faith in God and his complete love for his family always motivated him to take his meds and fight to get well. Mom & Dad belonged to the same church for over 50 years. By the time Dad passes he had been bedridden for a long time and had not been to church in 5+ years. There were over 200 people in attendance at the funeral. One couple traveled 4 hours to attend and another 5. When Mom thanked the one friend for attending, she said her husband always admired my Dad. I think it was his constant positive attitude and faith in God. Your ex can get well and have a positive influence on your son. The focus on God is common for those that are mentally ill. Hopefully when your ex gets healthier he will not be so focused on religion. Hugs. I hope that's how it goes down. He tends to cycle with the religion too. I learned to absolutely loathe Easter. He would give up everything for lent, like lists of things, go to mass every day, then fast for days before Easter...like no food at all. Then as soon as Easter hit he would go hog wild and indulge in everything for months, alcohol, drugs, stop going to church, then he would crash and turn to God again, but usually there was a mess in the wake. Last Easter's cycle combined with massively messing up his hand on Easter day triggered the ultimate meltdown.
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