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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 12:59:06 GMT -5
Well, that's different than blocking him in so you can stare at him all day!
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 11, 2014 13:00:37 GMT -5
I trust my wife completely. No reservations, no hesitation. Why spend your life with somebody that you can't? Not to bash anyone, but I don't consider it normal behavior to go out (1 on 1) with someone of the opposite sex when you are married I know I wouldn't do it, my friends wouldn't do it, and their spouse wouldn't do it. It has less to do with trust and is more out of respect. Different strokes for different folks, but most people that I consider that normal would probably avoid that situation. I am so with you on that. I can not imagine my DH tells me 'I am dining out tonight with Susan' and I go 'sure, I will call Bill to go to the movies'... Sounds really creepy! My men friends are my women friend's husbands. When we party together. Not when she is not present. How does anyone invisioning your spouse's dinner with opposite sex friend?
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Feb 11, 2014 13:01:05 GMT -5
Nobody is cute enough that I want to spend my life stalking them 24/7. Literally nobody. Even watching the most beautiful woman in the world every second of everyday would get real old, real fast.that made me think of this. Cleaned up version: For every beautiful woman out there in the world, there is a man tired of sleeping with her.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 13:01:32 GMT -5
Not to bash anyone, but I don't consider it normal behavior to go out (1 on 1) with someone of the opposite sex when you are married I know I wouldn't do it, my friends wouldn't do it, and their spouse wouldn't do it. It has less to do with trust and is more out of respect. Different strokes for different folks, but most people that I consider that normal would probably avoid that situation. I am so with you on that. I can not imagine my DH tells me 'I am dining out tonight with Susan' and I go 'sure, I will call Bill to go to the movies'... Sounds really creepy! My men friends are my women friend's husbands. When we party together. Not when she is not present. How does anyone invisioning your spouse's dinner with opposite sex friend? It's not the dinner you have to worry about it, it's the dessert.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 11, 2014 13:02:12 GMT -5
Well, that's different than blocking him in so you can stare at him all day! So you to had seen no irony in me telling you all that, right? I am pretty sure absence of the humor is not all that dangerous.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 13:03:46 GMT -5
Women want a man who makes them laugh! At least that's what they all say anyway...
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 11, 2014 13:04:11 GMT -5
I am so with you on that. I can not imagine my DH tells me 'I am dining out tonight with Susan' and I go 'sure, I will call Bill to go to the movies'... Sounds really creepy! My men friends are my women friend's husbands. When we party together. Not when she is not present. How does anyone invisioning your spouse's dinner with opposite sex friend? It's not the dinner you have to worry about it, it's the dessert. Archie! how dare you? I am not paying for desert. I thought more like a coffee from DD or WAWA>>>
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 13:06:52 GMT -5
I trust my wife completely. No reservations, no hesitation. Why spend your life with somebody that you can't? Not to bash anyone, but I don't consider it normal behavior to go out (1 on 1) with someone of the opposite sex when you are married I know I wouldn't do it, my friends wouldn't do it, and their spouse wouldn't do it. It has less to do with trust and is more out of respect. Different strokes for different folks, but most people that I consider that normal would probably avoid that situation. Do you do things 1 on 1 with your sister sometimes? Does your wife do anything with her brother? It's the same idea. I only see my BFF from highschool once a year or so. We will visit together with his wife and often she will take off to do something else because our catching up is boring to her.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Feb 11, 2014 13:07:28 GMT -5
I'm with Swamp, Rae, rainyday, etc.
DH has one or two female friends that he has been very close with during our relationship. That's cool. I have had many male friends that I've been close with during our relationship. That's cool too.
We've met each others' friends. We sometimes hang out as couples, sometimes alone. Some of my male friends are now DH's friends too, which is fine.
If one of us gets uncomfortable with something, it's up to them to broach the subject.
I've been jealous and suspicious of DH (early in our relationship.) I've also been not-jealous and suspicious because I'm secure in our feelings for one another. I prefer not-jealous.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 11, 2014 13:10:07 GMT -5
I trust my wife completely. No reservations, no hesitation. Why spend your life with somebody that you can't? Not to bash anyone, but I don't consider it normal behavior to go out (1 on 1) with someone of the opposite sex when you are married I know I wouldn't do it, my friends wouldn't do it, and their spouse wouldn't do it. It has less to do with trust and is more out of respect. Different strokes for different folks, but most people that I consider that normal would probably avoid that situation. That may be because your work situation, your social situations and your backgrounds don't present opportunities for that and it's fine that they don't, but to frame it as a lack of respect issue seems harsh. Is it possible that maybe you just don't have an understanding of those potential situations or is it truly that you think that nobody can ever be in a 1 on 1 situation with someone of the opposite gender without the situation being inappropriate?
Let me give you a few examples and you can give me your take.
1. I like to not just sail, but to race. There aren't many women that race, so even though I've tried to form all-women teams, for certain events/boats I end up on male teams. I am good friends with several of the men I sail with and we travel out of town to regattas for several days at a time, sometimes sleeping on the boat. Although I'd love it if DH would sail, he doesn't like it at all and gets seasick. He not only supports me doing this thing I love, but encourages me to go sail with these men, some of whom are Olympic level sailors and whom I respect and learn from greatly.
2. Not only is it fun to compete, but it's fun to talk about sailing and dissect races. Again, DH has zero interest in any of this and would rather have a root canal. He encourages me to go have a beer with my guy sailor friends to watch the America's Cup or do a post-race tall tales session.
3. DH had a job at a company filled with jerks and relatives/friends of the jerk owner. The job paid great, but the coworkers sucked. He and the office manager, who happened to be a woman, became friends. They could commiserate with each other without boring me (or her husband) with details of who said what to whom, they could talk shop and they just generally enjoyed hanging out. (I get this, there are certain friends who you click with and just enjoy hanging out with - seems reasonable to me.) They'd often have lunch during the work week and sometimes get a drink after work or go to conferences. I was often invited to the lunches, drinks, conferences, etc., but found them boring so was glad he had someone to do that stuff with. The things they'd talk about, their interactions that I could see (and that others would see as well) and their relationship wouldn't have caused anyone to even bat an eye if she was a guy, so why should I deprive him of his only friend at an otherwise sucky work situation? I liked her reasonably well and all the other guys at work were alcoholics or jerks. Should he just not have any work friend?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 11, 2014 13:55:27 GMT -5
But here's the thing: cheaters don't really care about consequences for their behavior. They behave more like addicts than rational folks. There's a good amount of folks that don't use protection when they cheat. There's no self-awareness or playing out of consequences when you are willing to endanger both your health and the health of your partner for whatever short term good feelings you are getting in the present. (And, while it is rare, there are the few cases where the cheater infects their spouse with HIV.) Here's one thing I've learned about trust. Unconditional trust is rather inappropriate, unless you are in a good/healthy relationship with your parents as a child. Otherwise, one shouldn't have unconditional trust. And, as for breaking the trust, my H really has earned most of mine back. It took 18 months of him working really hard, but he did it. But, again, just like everyone else, he is capable of anything. I really don't like having learned the lesson the way I did. But, I am grateful for learning that lesson early in our marriage and early in my life. The bolded part would be a deal breaker for me, regardless of what the issue was. I know its never that simple and my dh has some things that I consider addictions that I really don't like but so far when I ask for concessions on them he is open to talking about it and we have found middle ground that we can each live with. So to me he still isn't putting me behind his "addiction" (which I'm using the term loosely). You're 2nd point is interesting. I have a great relationship with my parents, but dh's--especially as a child is quite rocky. Are you saying that he shouldn't have unconditional trust of me because I could take advantage of him, or vice versa that he may have missed out on the timing of how/when a child learns what trust is and therefore not be able to be trusted unconditionally? I'm glad you and your dh have worked through the issues and know how to work together to help prevent them from resurfacing.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 11, 2014 13:58:58 GMT -5
Hey mmhmm, you're creepy.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 11, 2014 14:13:20 GMT -5
Not to bash anyone, but I don't consider it normal behavior to go out (1 on 1) with someone of the opposite sex when you are married I know I wouldn't do it, my friends wouldn't do it, and their spouse wouldn't do it. It has less to do with trust and is more out of respect. Different strokes for different folks, but most people that I consider that normal would probably avoid that situation. That may be because your work situation, your social situations and your backgrounds don't present opportunities for that and it's fine that they don't, but to frame it as a lack of respect issue seems harsh. Is it possible that maybe you just don't have an understanding of those potential situations or is it truly that you think that nobody can ever be in a 1 on 1 situation with someone of the opposite gender without the situation being inappropriate?
Let me give you a few examples and you can give me your take.
1. I like to not just sail, but to race. There aren't many women that race, so even though I've tried to form all-women teams, for certain events/boats I end up on male teams. I am good friends with several of the men I sail with and we travel out of town to regattas for several days at a time, sometimes sleeping on the boat. Although I'd love it if DH would sail, he doesn't like it at all and gets seasick. He not only supports me doing this thing I love, but encourages me to go sail with these men, some of whom are Olympic level sailors and whom I respect and learn from greatly.
2. Not only is it fun to compete, but it's fun to talk about sailing and dissect races. Again, DH has zero interest in any of this and would rather have a root canal. He encourages me to go have a beer with my guy sailor friends to watch the America's Cup or do a post-race tall tales session.
3. DH had a job at a company filled with jerks and relatives/friends of the jerk owner. The job paid great, but the coworkers sucked. He and the office manager, who happened to be a woman, became friends. They could commiserate with each other without boring me (or her husband) with details of who said what to whom, they could talk shop and they just generally enjoyed hanging out. (I get this, there are certain friends who you click with and just enjoy hanging out with - seems reasonable to me.) They'd often have lunch during the work week and sometimes get a drink after work or go to conferences. I was often invited to the lunches, drinks, conferences, etc., but found them boring so was glad he had someone to do that stuff with. The things they'd talk about, their interactions that I could see (and that others would see as well) and their relationship wouldn't have caused anyone to even bat an eye if she was a guy, so why should I deprive him of his only friend at an otherwise sucky work situation? I liked her reasonably well and all the other guys at work were alcoholics or jerks. Should he just not have any work friend?
To piggy back on Milee's post: My Dh is a vet tech. 95% of vet techs are women in their 20's. Dh also works overnights so instead of 20 techs, doctors and assistants running around the building, many nights there are 3 of them. 2 techs and a doctor who work very closely with each other sometimes in very stressful situations. IME in those situations you either love your coworkers and become close friends or you hate them, and thankfully the ones that dh doesn't care for never last long on overnights. I think dh's job would be the worst thing ever. It's gross, depressing, and physically difficult. I do my best to show interest in his job because he loves it, but I could never be empathetic to what he goes through. If I wasn't comfortable with him being friends with other women I'd be effectively telling him that he couldn't be friendly with almost anyone at work. This is pretty much the exact situation of dh's coworker in my OP that her husband flips out if she is spending time with any men if her dh isn't around. I just couldn't go through life like that.
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quince
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Post by quince on Feb 11, 2014 14:35:42 GMT -5
I think the whole...opposite gender friends can be summed up this way.
Do you have opposite gender friends when you are NOT in a relationship?
If so, you should have them when you are IN a relationship. If not, you are a shitty friend. It is OK to have less energy invested into friendships (in general) when you have other shit going on- marriage, children, sickness, etc. It is NOT OK to call yourself a friend when your "friends" are disposable.
I want my husband to be able to have women as friends, because I want him to be the kind of guy who can look at women as more than just potential sex partners, because my relationship with him is much, much more than sex. He's my best friend, too.
The whole idea that it is disrespectful to have friends that are of a gender you might be interested in having sex with is problematic to me. Bisexuals are only allowed to have casual sexual relationships, or must be friendless? People who are gay can only have friends of the opposite sex? Should those friends of the opposite sex ALSO be gay, because no one can be friends with someone who might want to sleep with them/they might want to sleep with when coupled up?
Hm. As a heterosexual woman, is it OK for me to be friends with a gay male?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 11, 2014 14:49:25 GMT -5
I think the whole...opposite gender friends can be summed up this way. Do you have opposite gender friends when you are NOT in a relationship? If so, you should have them when you are IN a relationship. If not, you are a shitty friend. It is OK to have less energy invested into friendships (in general) when you have other shit going on- marriage, children, sickness, etc. It is NOT OK to call yourself a friend when your "friends" are disposable. I want my husband to be able to have women as friends, because I want him to be the kind of guy who can look at women as more than just potential sex partners, because my relationship with him is much, much more than sex. He's my best friend, too. The whole idea that it is disrespectful to have friends that are of a gender you might be interested in having sex with is problematic to me. Bisexuals are only allowed to have casual sexual relationships, or must be friendless? People who are gay can only have friends of the opposite sex? Should those friends of the opposite sex ALSO be gay, because no one can be friends with someone who might want to sleep with them/they might want to sleep with when coupled up? Hm. As a heterosexual woman, is it OK for me to be friends with a gay male? So much this. To everything in your post.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 14:57:20 GMT -5
I think the whole...opposite gender friends can be summed up this way. Do you have opposite gender friends when you are NOT in a relationship? If so, you should have them when you are IN a relationship. If not, you are a shitty friend. It is OK to have less energy invested into friendships (in general) when you have other shit going on- marriage, children, sickness, etc. It is NOT OK to call yourself a friend when your "friends" are disposable. I want my husband to be able to have women as friends, because I want him to be the kind of guy who can look at women as more than just potential sex partners, because my relationship with him is much, much more than sex. He's my best friend, too. The whole idea that it is disrespectful to have friends that are of a gender you might be interested in having sex with is problematic to me. Bisexuals are only allowed to have casual sexual relationships, or must be friendless? People who are gay can only have friends of the opposite sex? Should those friends of the opposite sex ALSO be gay, because no one can be friends with someone who might want to sleep with them/they might want to sleep with when coupled up? Hm. As a heterosexual woman, is it OK for me to be friends with a gay male? I think a lot of this makes sense. I think the people who think opposite genders should not be friends probably didn't have opposite gender friends when they were not in a relationship.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Feb 11, 2014 15:16:23 GMT -5
You're 2nd point is interesting. I have a great relationship with my parents, but dh's--especially as a child is quite rocky. Are you saying that he shouldn't have unconditional trust of me because I could take advantage of him, or vice versa that he may have missed out on the timing of how/when a child learns what trust is and therefore not be able to be trusted unconditionally? I'm glad you and your dh have worked through the issues and know how to work together to help prevent them from resurfacing. I believe that unconditional/blind trust is inappropriate in any relationship, except for maybe the parent/child one, assuming that relationship is healthy. I am saying that just because people don't reveal their warts to you doesn't mean those warts don't exist. It means you just don't know about them. And I'm not going to assume there are no warts just because I don't see any. But, that's my lens. I'm sure if I my H had made different choices, maybe I'd feel differently.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 11, 2014 15:31:32 GMT -5
I know my DH has warts, I'm all too aware of it.
That being said he's never given me cause to doubt his fidelity. If he had I'd feel different about him having opposite sex friends.
DH has jealously issues and it's created problems at times. We had a fight once over me serving a male customer and he felt I was too "flirty". I'm still not sure what that even meant.
We've been together 10 years and in that time frame I've never given DH any cause to doubt my fidelity.
Could I cheat someday? Of course anything is possible. But I refuse to live under a cloud of suspicion and have to walk on eggshells anytime I encounter a person with a penis. That's not how I want to live my life. I'm not indulging DH in his paranoia. I extend him the same courtesy. Trust can be revoked if he proves himself unworthy of it but I'm not going force him to walk on eggshells around the opposite sex when he's provided no reason for me to expect that of him.
I don't so much blindly trust DH as opposed to I chose to trust the boundaries we've set. Logically yes he could step over the line at any time, I'm not naive. But I've watch DH cross over into paranoia concerning the issue and that's not good for a relationship either.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Feb 11, 2014 16:06:22 GMT -5
That being said he's never given me cause to doubt his fidelity. If he had I'd feel different about him having opposite sex friends. This is a really good point. Jealousy is a feeling like any other. It’s not just a choice or a manipulation, it’s a reaction to circumstance. People have a right to their feelings. They have a right to feel jealous, just as they do angry, or sad, or lonely. Telling someone that they shouldn’t have a feeling, because you don’t currently share it based on your limited scope of their experiences, is rather absurd.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Feb 11, 2014 16:18:31 GMT -5
Like Archie, I think I think it depends on the definitions of "friend". Someone he hangs out with at work, chats with, has lunch with sometimes, sure. If we're talking about a situation where he defines a woman other than me as his "best friend" that would not be okay. If he'd rather sit on our couch and text with another woman all evening than talk to me, that's also not okay. And while I like to think I'm enlightened and all, him staying in a hotel room with another woman on a work (or any other kind of) trip would not be okay ever. There's just no reason to put yourself in that position. Then again, I don't really want to share a hotel room with anyone other than my sweetie regardless of their gender. I'm not in college anymore, I want my own space.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Feb 11, 2014 16:26:08 GMT -5
But I've watch DH cross over into paranoia concerning the issue and that's not good for a relationship either. I also find the idea of paranoia interesting. Your idea of paranoia could be another person's "gut" telling them something is up. I DID ask my H repeatedly, if he was cheating on me. Only because that's what I had the words for. I didn't have the words for SA in my vocabulary. Most of us don't. It got so bad that I was having dreams several times a week that involved me finding my H with other women. Now, I asked my husband several times if he cheated on me over the course of a year. The answer was always "No." He was still using women to get high. I just didn't ask him the "right" question. The "right" question would have been "So, honey, exactly how long have you been hiding your addiction from me and how badly has your addiction escalated?" So, I really began to doubt myself. Because of unconditional/blind trust. I figured it must be me. Except, it wasn't. It was my H trying to prevent me from finding out the truth by using tactics my kids use to avoid getting into trouble.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 11, 2014 16:32:53 GMT -5
People have a right to their feelings
True. I understand where DH's issues come from he got burned bad in the past. I'm not going to tell him he can't feel that way.
our idea of paranoia could be another person's "gut" telling them something is up
DH was at the resturant I waited tables at. When we were driving home he was mad and wouldn't talk to me. Finally I got out of him that he decided I was "too flirty" with the male customers. He didn't want me talking to male customers anymore
WTF? I can't not talk to customers because they are male. That's a totally unreasonable request from him.
I get he got burned 20+ years ago but it's not logical to expect me to only talk to other men when DH is present. I work in a male dominated field so unless he wants to follow me around work I'm going to talk to men without supervision .
I have no problems if he doesn't want me going out alone with a male friend. That's not unreasonable and I'll respect that rather than poke the bear. I'd never dream of sharing a hotel room with anyone other than my DH, nothing good is going to come from that discussion.
But he can't control my every interaction with the male species. That kind of need for control/reassurance creates its own problems in a relationship.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Feb 11, 2014 16:56:56 GMT -5
Jar of hearts but they are not mine.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 11, 2014 16:57:26 GMT -5
But I've watch DH cross over into paranoia concerning the issue and that's not good for a relationship either. I also find the idea of paranoia interesting. Your idea of paranoia could be another person's "gut" telling them something is up. I DID ask my H repeatedly, if he was cheating on me. Only because that's what I had the words for. I didn't have the words for SA in my vocabulary. Most of us don't. It got so bad that I was having dreams several times a week that involved me finding my H with other women. Now, I asked my husband several times if he cheated on me over the course of a year. The answer was always "No." He was still using women to get high. I just didn't ask him the "right" question. The "right" question would have been "So, honey, exactly how long have you been hiding your addiction from me and how badly has your addiction escalated?" So, I really began to doubt myself. Because of unconditional/blind trust. I figured it must be me. Except, it wasn't. It was my H trying to prevent me from finding out the truth by using tactics my kids use to avoid getting into trouble. So, does having a rule that neither of you can have close friends of the opposite gender eliminate that issue in your marriage? Why do you have that same rule since you didn't lie to him? To me that is a very different issue. Being lied to and intentionally misled is a big issue, but the root of that issue isn't caused by proximity to the opposite sex. I have revised my initial thinking to include that people who have been cheated on (might) assume that their partners are cheating on them not from a desire to control their partner but from a place of self preservation. That I get, but when it comes to flight or fight, I will flee every single time so I'm not likely to be in that situation with the same person twice. I also couldn't accept a partner doubting my fidelity because of a former partners actions.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Feb 11, 2014 18:38:17 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1392155846000" class="time" title="Feb 11, 2014 15:57:26 GMT -6">Feb 11, 2014 15:57:26 GMT -6</abbr> raeoflyte said: So, does having a rule that neither of you can have close friends of the opposite gender eliminate that issue in your marriage? Why do you have that same rule since you didn't lie to him? To me that is a very different issue. Being lied to and intentionally misled is a big issue, but the root of that issue isn't caused by proximity to the opposite sex. I have revised my initial thinking to include that people who have been cheated on (might) assume that their partners are cheating on them not from a desire to control their partner but from a place of self preservation. That I get, but when it comes to flight or fight, I will flee every single time so I'm not likely to be in that situation with the same person twice. I also couldn't accept a partner doubting my fidelity because of a former partners actions. Nothing I can do can prevent my husband from using women inappropriately. I fully realize that. I have decided, after experiencing emotional intimacy with my husband for the first time 6 or so years into our marriage (we'd been together for over a decade at that point), that I prefer to be close to my husband rather than either other people, whether they be male or female. I also don't have the time/energy to cultivate those sorts of close relationships with several folks. Again, that time would take away from my marriage and my kids. My husband has not asked me to not have male friends. It's just a preference I have, because I like the marriage I am in now. I like having emotional intimacy with my husband. And, it makes me sad to reflect on the first years of marriage, where I had emotional intimacy with everyone except my husband. Just how I work. I don't expect that others will work like me. As for staying or going: it's a calculated risk. At least with my husband, I know what I'm dealing with, exactly. You don't get those guarantees with a new partner. Just another person that's capable of anything..Trite, but if my husband was going to make a strong effort to be sober, I didn't see the point of ripping apart my family. And, to that end, he has done very well. So, I stay. There are no guarantees with a relationship anyway. No one likes to think about that, though. If my husband had unfinished business, in terms of an old relationship, yes, I'd want him to deal with it and not bring the baggage into our relationship.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Feb 11, 2014 20:21:39 GMT -5
I am hasbian. My BF is bi. I avoided checking out this thread for days because it sure promised to come from a world that I don't understand.
My faith in YM has been wonderfully restored. I was laughing my ass off within the first half dozen posts.
FWIW, when I was trying to get out of a bad relationship with another woman that showed many signs of becoming abusive, straight women, other lesbians, and gay men were not particularly helpful. Friendships with straight men and bi women gave me the courage to extricate myself from that toxic relationship.
Nobody tells me who I can eat lunch with, ever.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 8, 2024 16:19:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 20:33:20 GMT -5
There are some wild relationships on this board!
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haapai
Junior Associate
Character
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,983
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Post by haapai on Feb 11, 2014 20:57:05 GMT -5
There are some wild relationships on this board! Oh hush, and call your sis. My life is bloody tame now that I don't let other folks yank my chain.
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Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 11, 2014 20:58:13 GMT -5
I had to google hasbian
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 8, 2024 16:19:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 21:06:22 GMT -5
LOL I thought it was an autocorrect for lesbian.
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