whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 5, 2014 8:09:05 GMT -5
no, you are not the only one. I wasn't thinking that, i was thinking that I would be concern if my kid's teacher was THAT invested in one exercise of ONE kid. We are not talking about training for the Olympics here. It's a gym class in middle school. So, i would be wondering about his mental state and whether he should be getting hobbies or something If his math teacher was tutoring him after school because he couldn't do arithmetic would you feel like the teacher should get a hobby? No, bc math is "slightly" more important skill to have
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 5, 2014 8:33:17 GMT -5
He looks normal to me. Even if he has a bit of a belly. I'm thinking just make sure there's nothing but healthy food and it will sort itself out. DS grew the same way as a baby/toddler. Think Jabba the Hut. He looks very normal now. Thank god. Jabba isn't the way to go through life.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 5, 2014 8:34:08 GMT -5
Math is a normal skill to a math teacher. PE is a normal skill to a PE teacher. Don't go by that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 8:51:54 GMT -5
If his math teacher was tutoring him after school because he couldn't do arithmetic would you feel like the teacher should get a hobby? No, bc math is "slightly" more important skill to have If that is true, schools should get rid of PE.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 8:53:37 GMT -5
It's only a matter of time, Arch....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 8:57:33 GMT -5
It's only a matter of time, Arch.... And YM will rejoice!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 8:58:38 GMT -5
Only the uncoordinated ones!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 8:59:59 GMT -5
Only the uncoordinated ones!
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Feb 5, 2014 9:07:44 GMT -5
Well, Mother/son somersault training session was an epic fail. I was feeling good about it because he came out of his session with his counselor acting much less anxious about the upcoming unit, but when I said lets practice them for a bit, he tensed all up and it wasn't long before it all fell apart and he was crying and making excuse after excuse. He said the guy in the video wasn't fat like him so I googled "fat guy doing somersault" and found all kinds of REALLY big guys doing tumbling somersaults and flips, but he told me that just made him feel worse that he couldn't do one. I would like to add that he didn't try once. Not once. The best I could do was get him into the initial position in the video, but all he would do was ramble on about how much it was going to hurt his neck. Twenty minutes of this and I said "fine, go to bed". I called his Dad and had him talk to him, because frankly, I was a bit perturbed that he wouldn't even try. Awww...I feel so sad for your boy. He's such a cutie. It sounds like this situation is bigger than I originally thought. Maybe break down the somersault into pieces and work on just one piece for a bit. For example, maybe have him sit on the floor and hug his knees and rock back and forth for a couple weeks - it gets his body used to being in a curl and it will strengthen his core a bit. Or maybe have him work on getting from a sitting position on the floor to standing without using his hands. Prerequisites in a way for doing a somersault. My son has autism/ADHD and is easily overwhelmed and breaks down. I've learned I can't give him a "big" project like cleaning his room. But if I sit on his bed and verbally guide him on each step of the process, he can handle it better. Same thing with homework. If something is too big/overwhelming that it makes him feel like it's impossible and that he's a loser, I break it down into manageable steps that he CAN handle and then he feels more successful...which will ultimately lead to him feeling more competent and able to take on larger jobs. It also helps him to know there's a limit to what he has to do. If I say "Clean your room" he has a meltdown; if I say "Pick up 20/30/40 things" he does it without any problem. It's knowing the project has an end point that helps him. That's why I suggested doing X somersaults a day or whatever. Setting a timer and saying "we'll practice this for 10 minutes and that's it" will make the project more manageable emotionally. I'm so glad you are working with a therapist. It sounds like he is having a lot of body image issues and is very insecure (feeling like a loser). I would look to the therapist for guidance on things to do at home to help him and then also do some research yourself (read a book or something) on things you can do to help a chunky kid. He feels fat and it's affecting his day to day functioning, so maybe that's the core issue to work on. Hugs to you both. Parenting is so hard!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 5, 2014 9:24:16 GMT -5
No, bc math is "slightly" more important skill to have If that is true, schools should get rid of PE. There is no need to go to extremes. And that's, actually, what this PE teacher is doing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 9:52:28 GMT -5
If that is true, schools should get rid of PE. There is no need to go to extremes. And that's, actually, what this PE teacher is doing. I am not going to extremes. If there is no reason for a teacher to help a student learn a basic skill in PE then why have PE?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 9:55:28 GMT -5
2 hours every day after school for 2 weeks is extreme.
I would really love to know if it is a State requirement. At least everyone would know why the teacher is so adamant about this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 10:02:48 GMT -5
2 hours every day after school for 2 weeks is extreme. I would really love to know if it is a State requirement. At least everyone would know why the teacher is so adamant about this. Well, it's now been two days and I haven't heard anything back from either the PE teacher or the principal. I wanted to know if this was an actual requirement as well. Also, today is PE DAY!!
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 5, 2014 10:11:21 GMT -5
Lena,
I'm a huge believer in academics and don't even think we should have publicly funded school sports teams, so believe me - I agree if you can only pick one single thing to get, it has to be math. But I can also see some scenarios where the somersault thing isn't really extreme or necessarily bad. Assuming it's being done with good intentions and this isn't a case of a jerk coach trying to embarrass a kid (and I don't think it is or the coach wouldn't spend 2 hours after school on it.) Maybe the coach has seen this really great kid struggle with gaining weight over the past few years and seen how that makes this awesome kid feel awkward and inadequate. Maybe the coach thinks that if this kid can just get a few basic moves under his belt and start having some success in physical activities, that this kid might see that fitness is possible for him. Maybe the coach doesn't want to give up on this kid because he's worried that this kid will take it as reinforcement of the idea that the kid can't do any PE and is doomed to be (I'm using teenage drama language here, not what I or an adult would think) a "fat loser" forever?
Can't tell because we don't have enough information, so it could be just a coach being a jerk or it could be a coach drawing a line in the sand and trying to help the kid by not caving on something basic so the kid learns how to succeed at some fitness moves and helps to reshape his negative self-image.
I have a lot of incredibly smart people in my family that have horrible health issues because they may have been math geniuses but neglected to care for the body that housed that brain. Speaking as someone who comes from a family of very heavy, unfit smart people, I know how easy it is for a smart, awkward kid to conclude that s/he simply can't do basic physical activity and just gives up on being healthy. Heck, I even thought it was genetic. Since all my family was awkward, heavy and unhealthy, it must just be bad genes and I shouldn't bother because there was no prayer of being fit anyways. But now that I'm an adult and I was lucky enough to have people that showed me differently, I'm fitter in my 40s than most 20 year olds. I wish someone had helped me discover that earlier. Instead of being an awkward, unfit kid, I might have actually been happy and fit in well with many sports. Maybe that coach is just trying to do this for this kid - help him discover that he can do anything he practices enough. I'm not saying anybody can be an Olympic athlete, but with enough practice anybody can achieve a basic level of fitness.
With the rising levels of obesity and all the related health issues (diabetes, heart disease, dementia, certain cancers, etc), I don't think it's extreme at all to go the extra mile to inspire, help, cajole, maybe even force kids to discover basic fitness.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Feb 5, 2014 10:16:01 GMT -5
2 hours every day after school for 2 weeks is extreme. I would really love to know if it is a State requirement. At least everyone would know why the teacher is so adamant about this. I could see why a teacher who passionately believes in what they teach not thinking it's extreme. And probably the plan didn't start out that way as really, who would think that after 2/4/6/8 hours of 1x1 coaching that a kid still couldn't do a somersault? I don't necessarily fault the teacher. BUT, I think the teacher's approach was completely wrong for this particular kid with his personality type and it backfired big time. At this point I think the teacher has lost all credibility with the kid as a mentor/coach and needs to drop it. Let the family/therapist try to coax the kid back into feeling successful and learning the somersault at an appropriate pace. The issue isn't the somersault IMO, it's what the kid learns from this whole experience.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 10:16:06 GMT -5
Well, it wasn't two weeks after school, it was one week and he only has PE on MWF, so 3 days staying from 2-4. I'm actually cool with him being forced to stay after and exercise, (better than watching Netflix and playing video games), but if he's just sitting there crying like he was last night...eh...I think new approach is necessary.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 5, 2014 10:23:57 GMT -5
if he's just sitting there crying like he was last night...eh...I think new approach is necessary. Sending hugs to both you and your son. You're right, if he's at the point where he's just crying, this approach isn't working and needs to go. Sorry you're both going through this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 10:26:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 10:27:58 GMT -5
Neither of my children can skip. Don't ask me why? I certainly can. They still managed to grow up and be good people regardless. My younger son skips all the time. All. the. time. He's just a happy guy. No idea why he does it, but he just skips happily along with a huge smile on his face. Doesn't matter if it's just going from his chair 10 feet to the bathroom or down to the end of the driveway to get the mail - he skips. And yes, this is the kid what wore the butterfly flower fairy jacket forever. He's also the kid that loves to swim but has no interest in racing, so it's been challenging to find swim teams where he can just come to all the practices but not compete. (And of course the older kid is the complete opposite. Hyper competitive, tightly wound, killer instinct, leave no survivors.)
Why are our kids so weird? It would be so much easier if they didn't have all this weird stuff going on.
I haven't finished the thread, but milee, I enjoy reading about your little guy. I hope that easygoing, joyful spirit remains a part of him for life.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 5, 2014 10:48:28 GMT -5
Milee, my point wasn't PE vs math. My point was that I don't think it's smart to invest too much time in something that is not that crucial of a skill.
If it's a simple matter of coach wanting to help a kid to be/stay in shape, then he could have just done some cardio type of exercises. To spend that kind of time on this particular exercise is overkill.
Even if we were talking about math, if it was one aspect of it that wasn't crucial to understanding other topics, I would have felt the same way. It's just not cost effective to invest in it.
I think besides teaching "not giving up" and perseverance, we also need to teach our kids that idea as well - recognize your strengths and weakness and deal with it accordingly.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 5, 2014 11:04:30 GMT -5
My younger son skips all the time. All. the. time. He's just a happy guy. No idea why he does it, but he just skips happily along with a huge smile on his face. Doesn't matter if it's just going from his chair 10 feet to the bathroom or down to the end of the driveway to get the mail - he skips. And yes, this is the kid what wore the butterfly flower fairy jacket forever. He's also the kid that loves to swim but has no interest in racing, so it's been challenging to find swim teams where he can just come to all the practices but not compete. (And of course the older kid is the complete opposite. Hyper competitive, tightly wound, killer instinct, leave no survivors.)
Why are our kids so weird? It would be so much easier if they didn't have all this weird stuff going on.
I haven't finished the thread, but milee, I enjoy reading about your little guy. I hope that easygoing, joyful spirit remains a part of him for life. He is very joyful and I appreciate it every day.
Not sure where he got that, though. I'm pretty sure he was switched at birth and that somewhere some gentle, hippy, sweet family is wondering how they got such a tough, stubborn, gritty kid...
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Feb 5, 2014 11:45:32 GMT -5
Lena,
I'm a huge believer in academics and don't even think we should have publicly funded school sports teams, so believe me - I agree if you can only pick one single thing to get, it has to be math. But I can also see some scenarios where the somersault thing isn't really extreme or necessarily bad. Assuming it's being done with good intentions and this isn't a case of a jerk coach trying to embarrass a kid (and I don't think it is or the coach wouldn't spend 2 hours after school on it.) Maybe the coach has seen this really great kid struggle with gaining weight over the past few years and seen how that makes this awesome kid feel awkward and inadequate. Maybe the coach thinks that if this kid can just get a few basic moves under his belt and start having some success in physical activities, that this kid might see that fitness is possible for him. Maybe the coach doesn't want to give up on this kid because he's worried that this kid will take it as reinforcement of the idea that the kid can't do any PE and is doomed to be (I'm using teenage drama language here, not what I or an adult would think) a "fat loser" forever?
Can't tell because we don't have enough information, so it could be just a coach being a jerk or it could be a coach drawing a line in the sand and trying to help the kid by not caving on something basic so the kid learns how to succeed at some fitness moves and helps to reshape his negative self-image.
I have a lot of incredibly smart people in my family that have horrible health issues because they may have been math geniuses but neglected to care for the body that housed that brain. Speaking as someone who comes from a family of very heavy, unfit smart people, I know how easy it is for a smart, awkward kid to conclude that s/he simply can't do basic physical activity and just gives up on being healthy. Heck, I even thought it was genetic. Since all my family was awkward, heavy and unhealthy, it must just be bad genes and I shouldn't bother because there was no prayer of being fit anyways. But now that I'm an adult and I was lucky enough to have people that showed me differently, I'm fitter in my 40s than most 20 year olds. I wish someone had helped me discover that earlier. Instead of being an awkward, unfit kid, I might have actually been happy and fit in well with many sports. Maybe that coach is just trying to do this for this kid - help him discover that he can do anything he practices enough. I'm not saying anybody can be an Olympic athlete, but with enough practice anybody can achieve a basic level of fitness.
With the rising levels of obesity and all the related health issues (diabetes, heart disease, dementia, certain cancers, etc), I don't think it's extreme at all to go the extra mile to inspire, help, cajole, maybe even force kids to discover basic fitness. There are lots of things that a person can do for fitness that do NOT include somersaults.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 5, 2014 11:50:24 GMT -5
I'm so betting this is either a requirement and as former PE, we had to show "progress" being made, or its the hill this teacher is willing to die on for your son. I had one myself. Monkey bars. Not only did it encourage upper body strength but its up "high." Not really but for little kids, yes it is. The joy and pride when they overcame their fear can't be described by me. I was under them the whole time of course JIC they did fall-they'd hit sand but still.... I hope it translated into other things that they were afraid to try.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Feb 5, 2014 11:53:43 GMT -5
Well, it wasn't two weeks after school, it was one week and he only has PE on MWF, so 3 days staying from 2-4. I'm actually cool with him being forced to stay after and exercise, (better than watching Netflix and playing video games), but if he's just sitting there crying like he was last night...eh...I think new approach is necessary. I agree something new needs to happen. If the PE teacher and principal won't respond to your emails, can you call them? I suggest skipping attempts at somersaults until he has success with something else. He needs a lot of positives to overcome all the negatives from the PE teacher and the teasing kids.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Feb 5, 2014 15:03:34 GMT -5
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 5, 2014 16:31:26 GMT -5
With the rising levels of obesity and all the related health issues (diabetes, heart disease, dementia, certain cancers, etc), I don't think it's extreme at all to go the extra mile to inspire, help, cajole, maybe even force kids to discover basic fitness.
I would posit that the fact that this PE teacher is so adamant that MPL's son does a somersault, that he is doing a VERY good job of turning him off of athletics altogether....which defeats the purpose. If you want someone to be healthy through athletics, you find something that is NOT such a frustrating thing to do and encourage that. Not drive a kid to tears because he has the flexibility of a plank.
Not everyone can do everything.
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endofera
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Post by endofera on Feb 5, 2014 22:35:56 GMT -5
I would tell my son that here's what's going to happen about the somersault. 1. I don't think this is a skill that is necessary for you to learn. 2. You won't be staying after class to "practice" it. 3. We won't be "practicing" it at home. 4. In class, you will try everything and do the best you can. That is all we ask. 5. I have spoken with your teacher and explained about numbers 1-4. 6. Spending this much energy and effort and worry about a stupid somersault is just ridiculous and I am done with it. I will listen if you want to talk about it but whether you can do a somersault or not just isn't important to me or anyone, really.
For what it's worth, my daughter couldn't do timed multiplication table tests in the time limit no matter how much we practiced. We practiced every night and she cried often and lost sleep, was made to stay in at recess by her teacher.
It finally got to the point where we had enough. She knew the answers and that was good enough for both of us. So I told her what I wrote above in steps 1-6 and talked to the teacher. Her teacher was convinced that if she couldn't do those timed tests, she'd never be able to do higher math later. My daughter probably had to stay in for a few more recesses and she got a C or something in that math class. Maybe even a D. But it didn't matter because we'd moved on. She aced her college calculus class, by the way. We still look back on those tests and thinks what a stupid thing to have spent so much time and effort on.
But a somersault is even more ridiculous. I just don't get teachers some times.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 5, 2014 23:20:08 GMT -5
If his math teacher was tutoring him after school because he couldn't do arithmetic would you feel like the teacher should get a hobby? No, bc math is "slightly" more important skill to have Although I agree that math is important, there are plenty of people who will break their left arm to tell you they have never used algebra, geometry or trigonometry after they passed the class - yet we don't let kids opt out of it. Being healthy is important. Exercise supports health. Coordination and flexibility support exercise. This PE teacher thinks he has a chance to help this kid start on a healthy life. That seems just as "important" as knowing the Menelaus’ Theorem - but for some reason, it was required at my high school - even if some kids weren't as naturally talented as other kids.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 23:28:35 GMT -5
Well, PE went by without a hitch again today. Still haven't moved onto the gymnastics unit. Plus, DS came home all excited wanting to join the archery club that is going to meet every Thursday afternoon starting tomorrow. Same teacher is organizing this, so DS must not be totally put off by him. He scraped together the $5 he needed for dues out of his own money.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 23:44:48 GMT -5
In other news. My divorce was finalized today. I think. My attorney isn't the best at keeping in touch, but it says decree granted online, so I'm assuming. I'm a little numb by it all. I'm now officially on my own with two kids and nobody to fall back on. I had all of 15 minutes to soak that thought in when I found out our company is going to have a big layoff tomorrow! A coworker friend that has been there for 20+ years has a connection with IT who gets wind of this stuff ahead of time, so I know it's legit. They already let the head of HR and someone in finance go yesterday. This is supposed to hit every department. I'm not the bottom of the totem pole in mine, but close.
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