It's Still Not Easy To Be Different/Good People Help Out

[cranberry49]

Nov 12, 2013 9:27:33 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

  and that is why I choose not to follow. 

Yes, and that is entirely your choice. But, for the ones that choose to follow they are often ridiculed and that is sad. However, it is to be expected, that's for sure.

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2013 9:37:13 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

Nov 12, 2013 9:28:55 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

You can still love your children.  You just can't have a relationship with them.

And that is my point, exactly.  However, you can have a relationship with them (unless they have been baptized and disfellowshipped from the congregation.) This is something entirely different though-- and I'm NOT going into that.


 But, you cannot approve of the behavior. You cannot accept the chosen 'partner' with open arms. You cannot allow such behavior in your home. Because if you do, then you are giving your approval and this is totally against the bibles principals. 

You do what you gotta do.  

[mmhmm]

Nov 12, 2013 9:22:56 GMT -5 sarcasticgirl said:

Nov 12, 2013 2:04:58 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

ROFL!  The way it is is the way it is, Virgil.  There are not myriad reasons why children become estranged from their parents.   There is only one reason.

Sorry but sometimes it is the child's choice and not the parents. And the parents may desperately want their children in their lives... I have seen it first hand.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards

I said the reason children become estranged from their parents is rejection, sarcasticgirl.  I didn't say the rejection had to be one-sided, did I?  It doesn't.  It can go either way.  It's always sad to see.

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2013 9:38:59 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

Nov 12, 2013 9:27:33 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

  and that is why I choose not to follow. 

Yes, and that is entirely your choice. But, for the ones that choose to follow they are often ridiculed and that is sad. However, it is to be expected, that's for sure.

I found a martyr in my bed tonight.  She keeps my bones from wondering just who I am.

[zibazinski]

It is. Years ago my mom rejected me. When she died, I felt nothing. If you've never had someone in your life, them being gone isn't a tragedy. I'd feel more if my cat died.

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2013 9:42:30 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

I found a martyr in my bed tonight. She keeps my bones from wondering just who I am.

What do I stand for? Most nights, I don't know anymore...

[Deleted]

Nov 11, 2013 17:21:11 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Nov 11, 2013 16:54:21 GMT -5 steff said:

I want to ask to be sure.  Would you throw away your child if they fell in love with someone of the same sex? 

As in, all day today, this child was still your child. You loved them just like you've loved them their entire life.  Tonight you find out they are gay.  Tomorrow you throw them out, no longer love them, toss them away like trash & completely change everything you've felt about them literally over night. 

How is throwing my adult son out of the house "throwing him away"? He'll waste away to nothing without me? He'll wind up drifting to the city landfill and fall prey to wild dogs?

Living in my wife's and my house comes with the condition that our rules are respected. I don't care what my child feels, I care what he does. Since neither homosexuality nor premarital sex would be tolerated, my son's options are either to respect these prohibitions (and to respect us in so doing), or to find his own way in the great wide world, doing as he pleases without our roof over his head. It's his decision as to which he values more. Obviously my wife and I would do our best to instill our values in our children so that if they were faced with the decision, they would make the right one.

I would still love him. I wouldn't terminate contact with him. And if at any point his values changed and he ceased his immorality, I wouldn't hesitate to welcome him back into my home.

You and I have markedly different ideas on what constitutes genuine love. I cannot "love" a child by tolerating his choice to engage in immoral behaviour.

so you're of the opinion that being gay is a choice....when did you decide to be heterosexual?  and I guess your children aren't allowed to think for themselves, they're supposed to take your morals as the right ones because you say so.

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2013 9:49:33 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

Nov 11, 2013 17:21:11 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

How is throwing my adult son out of the house "throwing him away"? He'll waste away to nothing without me? He'll wind up drifting to the city landfill and fall prey to wild dogs?

Living in my wife's and my house comes with the condition that our rules are respected. I don't care what my child feels, I care what he does. Since neither homosexuality nor premarital sex would be tolerated, my son's options are either to respect these prohibitions (and to respect us in so doing), or to find his own way in the great wide world, doing as he pleases without our roof over his head. It's his decision as to which he values more. Obviously my wife and I would do our best to instill our values in our children so that if they were faced with the decision, they would make the right one.

I would still love him. I wouldn't terminate contact with him. And if at any point his values changed and he ceased his immorality, I wouldn't hesitate to welcome him back into my home.

You and I have markedly different ideas on what constitutes genuine love. I cannot "love" a child by tolerating his choice to engage in immoral behaviour.

so you're of the opinion that being gay is a choice....when did you decide to be heterosexual?  and I guess your children aren't allowed to think for themselves, they're supposed to take your morals as the right ones because you say so.

No.  They just get excommunicated if they don't.

[cranberry49]

But, the thing is: if you have raised your kids in a faith that teaches against being gay, then none of this should be a surprise when they force you to have to choose between them and Gods law. It's not like you are rejecting your child either. It's showing them that nothing can over-ride Gods rules. Sorry, but if that child chooses to act upon their urges to commit a sin and continue in it; then they have forced you to have to choose. 

Besides, living a Christian life is not a fad. It's a way of life. It's as real to you as your child is. You believe the words of God and have decided to live your whole life by them. If not? Why even bother? No one can be 'lukewarm' and expect to be saved. 

[Deleted]

So....you are not allowed to associate with people whose beliefs are different than your own?

ETA: I was raised Roman Catholic. My parent's best friends were Lutheran. They didn't expect everyone they talked to to be Roman Catholic. They also didn't expect their grown childrento blindly follow their beliefs. They haven't ditched me because I ditched Catholicism.

I guess they're "cherry pickers"... 

[cranberry49]

Nov 12, 2013 9:55:21 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

So....you are not allowed to associate with people whose beliefs are different than your own?

No. I didn't say that. I said you cannot be seen as being 'buddies' with a person that is known to be doing something that is entirely against biblical principals. Especially, if they know better! You cannot 'high five' their life choices. If you do? Then you are agreeing in a non-verbal way of the decisions that they are making and you are giving others an impression that you are agreeing with these decisions. 

[cranberry49]

Differing beliefs? That's a different story. Even Jesus associated with others that did not know better! He was there to teach them the right way. 

[Deleted]

Okay, since all sins are equal and everyone sins, Virgil why are you zeroing in on homosexuality and premarital sex? I mean, you can't throw them out for just any old sin or they would already be out of the house. So what sins are they allowed to commit and stay in the house?

ETA - For example, do they get thrown out if they are greedy? What about gluttony? If they get to fat from overeating are they out?

[Deleted]

So....in theory....you could still associate with your gay children even though they believe something different than you. 

ETA: you know, be a good example to the sinners.

[cranberry49]

Nov 12, 2013 9:55:21 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

So....you are not allowed to associate with people whose beliefs are different than your own?

ETA: I was raised Roman Catholic. My parent's best friends were Lutheran. They didn't expect everyone they talked to to be Roman Catholic. They also didn't expect their grown childrento blindly follow their beliefs. They haven't ditched me because I ditched Catholicism.

I guess they're "cherry pickers"... 

One is suppose to raise their kids up in the faith. This also is biblical. We are responsible for our children and not just for this life either. That is if one believes.

[chiver78]

He was there to teach them the right way.

I can't believe I read this whole thread.....but this comment right here, just wow. I was all set to comment on how little I was surprised by anything Virgil has said (as disgusted as I am by all of it) and then I saw this condescending gem.

I think I'm just going to back out now, before I say something I shouldn't.

[Deleted]

My parents did their duty and raised their brood in their faith. What their kids decided to do with that knowledge is not their fault, is it? 

[cranberry49]

Nov 12, 2013 10:02:28 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

So....in theory....you could still associate with your gay children even though they believe something different than you. 

ETA: you know, be a good example to the sinners.

Associate? That's subjective. Yes and no. You don't turn your back on them and you remain there for them; however, you don't do things that will ever give them the impression that you approve of their decision. If that makes any sense. 

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2013 10:07:32 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

Nov 12, 2013 10:02:28 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

So....in theory....you could still associate with your gay children even though they believe something different than you. 

ETA: you know, be a good example to the sinners.

Associate? That's subjective. Yes and no. You don't turn your back on them and you remain there for them; however, you don't do things that will ever give them the impression that you approve of their decision. If that makes any sense. 

It doesn't, but that's OK. Different strokes for different folks. 

[cranberry49]

Nov 12, 2013 10:04:56 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

He was there to teach them the right way.

I can't believe I read this whole thread.....but this comment right here, just wow. I was all set to comment on how little I was surprised by anything Virgil has said (as disgusted as I am by all of it) and then I saw this condescending gem.

I think I'm just going to back out now, before I say something I shouldn't.

If one truly...with all of their heart..believe in what the bible says? Then yes! There is but one right way and that is Gods way. I'm not ashamed or scared to state this. It's not my way. It's not your way. It's Gods way!

[cranberry49]

Nov 12, 2013 10:05:41 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

My parents did their duty and raised their brood in their faith. What their kids decided to do with that knowledge is not their fault, is it? 

No.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

The mental gymnastics needed to be a Christian and remain intolerant are astounding to me.

[Deleted]

Better than Sudoku. 

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2013 9:54:01 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

But, the thing is: if you have raised your kids in a faith that teaches against being gay, then none of this should be a surprise when they force you to have to choose between them and Gods law. It's not like you are rejecting your child either. It's showing them that nothing can over-ride Gods rules. Sorry, but if that child chooses to act upon their urges to commit a sin and continue in it; then they have forced you to have to choose. 

Besides, living a Christian life is not a fad. It's a way of life. It's as real to you as your child is. You believe the words of God and have decided to live your whole life by them. If not? Why even bother? No one can be 'lukewarm' and expect to be saved. 

You follow ALL the words... You sure?

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2013 10:07:32 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

Nov 12, 2013 10:02:28 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

So....in theory....you could still associate with your gay children even though they believe something different than you. 

ETA: you know, be a good example to the sinners.

Associate? That's subjective. Yes and no. You don't turn your back on them and you remain there for them; however, you don't do things that will ever give them the impression that you approve of their decision. If that makes any sense. 

It does.  You make them feel badly enough about themselves for as long as it takes to have them change who they are.   If it never happens then at least you tried,

[cranberry49]

Nov 12, 2013 10:15:43 GMT -5 oped said:

Nov 12, 2013 9:54:01 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

But, the thing is: if you have raised your kids in a faith that teaches against being gay, then none of this should be a surprise when they force you to have to choose between them and Gods law. It's not like you are rejecting your child either. It's showing them that nothing can over-ride Gods rules. Sorry, but if that child chooses to act upon their urges to commit a sin and continue in it; then they have forced you to have to choose. 

Besides, living a Christian life is not a fad. It's a way of life. It's as real to you as your child is. You believe the words of God and have decided to live your whole life by them. If not? Why even bother? No one can be 'lukewarm' and expect to be saved. 

You follow ALL the words... You sure?

Nope. I Never claimed to be living a 'Christian' life. But, if one does? Then they have to do their very best and not 'deliberately' do things that they know to be wrong. AND if one does fall and fail at times (as they surely will!) because of weakness, the bible tells us to repent and Go and sin no more! It does not tell us to continue in the sin and then go and ask for forgiveness, repeat and repeat. I can tell from Virgils posts that he is trying very hard to live by biblical principals and I applaud him for this! This is the reason for my posts. To help and explain his position. Not that I have too, but I felt the need because of all the hateful statements flung his way. 

[sarcasticgirl]

Nov 12, 2013 9:54:01 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

But, the thing is: if you have raised your kids in a faith that teaches against being gay, then none of this should be a surprise when they force you to have to choose between them and Gods law. It's not like you are rejecting your child either. It's showing them that nothing can over-ride Gods rules. Sorry, but if that child chooses to act upon their urges to commit a sin and continue in it; then they have forced you to have to choose. 

Besides, living a Christian life is not a fad. It's a way of life. It's as real to you as your child is. You believe the words of God and have decided to live your whole life by them. If not? Why even bother? No one can be 'lukewarm' and expect to be saved. 

but the thing is... it is *YOU* that has decided that homosexuality is a sin worth punishing. 
If your child got a tattoo, would you treat them the same. If they tell you a lie? if they have two tunics and do not give 1 to a person with none? If they know the right thing to do, but do nothing? 

Here's a little verse that people love to forget:
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

so please, go ahead, and keep on pretending that because you aren't gay you are much less of a sinner than someone who is. 

[sarcasticgirl]

Nov 12, 2013 10:23:33 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

Nov 12, 2013 10:15:43 GMT -5 oped said:

You follow ALL the words... You sure?

Nope. I Never claimed to be living a 'Christian' life. But, if one does? Then they have to do their very best and not 'deliberately' do things that they know to be wrong. AND if one does fall and fail at times (as they surely will!) because of weakness, the bible tells us to repent and Go and sin no more! It does not tell us to continue in the sin and then go and ask for forgiveness. I can tell from Virgils posts that he is trying very hard to live by biblical principals and I applaud him for this! This is the reason for my posts. To help and explain his position. Not that I have too, but I felt the need because of all the hateful statements flung his way. 

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

James 2:10 

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2013 9:24:41 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

One has to make a choice. Either you are going to follow the bible or you're not. It's truly as clear cut as that. No one is saying to stop loving your kids. However, when it comes to having to accept his/her behavior over what the bible teaches? Then you have to choose the bibles view; IF you want God's approval. You cannot pick and choose. No where does the bible give you that choice when it is as clear as day what the bibles take on homosexuality is.

Being raised Baptist has no bearing on this. I was raised Baptist also. I know that where I went to church they spoke against any form of alcohol use even though this is NOT what the bible teaches. It talks against drunkards. Not alcohol use in general. One needs to see if their church is teaching by the bible or are they using mans commandments/traditions. Two very differing things. You choose which one you will follow.

sorry, the bible was written by man and open to their interpretation.  one doesn't need to follow the bible to be a good person and I can't stand people who think that someone who doesn't live their life by the bible can't be a good, moral, worthy person.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

A lot of people forget "He who is without sin cast the first stone" too.