Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Oct 24, 2013 5:42:37 GMT -5
All I can say is that you just need to step back and let SD own her choices. They are her choices and she will have to live with the consequences. However, she can choose her choices, but you do not have to subsidize or support all of her choices. As the parents, I told my son that "here is what we will do to help you succeed". Lay it out. And, if that includes money or other financial help then I would clearly spell out under what conditions those things are provided. And, she can work with you and your DH or she can go her own way and find her own way in life.
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Oct 24, 2013 6:39:07 GMT -5
My 2 cents
Honey You guys are in a VERY hard place. We started when the kids were jr in high school:
We started them on a clothing allowance so they somewhat learned to budget Set a limit on the total cost of tuition + room & board Offered to keep them in a car (at OUR expense) IF they lived home & commuted to one of our state schools They HAD to pay for their own books (to encourage finding/buying used or cheaper than the bookstore) They HAD to have PT jobs if they ever wanted to go to a movie or buy a pizza When they wanted an apt vs the dorm we ONLY paid up to the cost of the dorm and divided the cost of the meal plan into the number of months they would be at school and sent a monthly check so they never went hungry
I suspect it is WAAY past time to have a come to Jesus meeting/conversation w/DSD. Lay out the rules and enforce them.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 24, 2013 7:29:12 GMT -5
I'm so reading some of these posts to DF tonight. Thanks to all.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Oct 24, 2013 7:55:34 GMT -5
I hate to be like Doxie, but here's more: SD also has a part time work study job that she makes like $10/hr on or something, I think she gets 10-15 hours a week. It's working for the theater department there. So that is great, right? She's making her own spending money. Which we were very proud of her for. But that's HER money. Not her spending money. That has to come from US. Get it? It never ceases to amaze me how adults will acquiesce in this matter and then complain that the kid is selfish, irresponsible and spoiled! WTF....the answer is no, you need to earn your own spending money....end of discussion. Your DH is actively facilitating the response he gets from his daughter. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got...done.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Oct 24, 2013 8:09:56 GMT -5
...H doesn't want to do that because he knows she's so irresponsible with money it'll be gone and she'll never finish her degree. I'm upset at him because I told him he needed to lay out a contract and expectations BEFORE college ever started. He didn't. He thought it would just be ok. If she never finishes and blows all the money I think that's her problem. I also have a 2 yr old's college account to fund. I didn't have a contract or expectations before going to college. The only expectation was to graduate. But, I also didn't manage the money and was given what I needed and asked for. I guess some kids need that structure though. If you keep her money and don't give her what she asks for (in the case of only give $100 when she asked for $250), you will continue to have these battles. It's not HER money. It's money from me, her dad, and and her grandparents. Well, first, from what you specified earlier, the account from her grandfather is held by her father and herself....that doesn't involve you. Second, you're saying that you're personally providing money to your husbands daughter? Out of your income? You married a man with two children. He made a commitment to provide child support and support for college. And in my mind, before one remarries and has more kids, consider that these two are the first priority. Yes, first. All of the BS that goes on with step mothers and fathers being resentful of the support and crap that goes on with their spouses children just creates more angst and is ridiculous and grossly unfair to these kids. You can't divorce your kids. Whether or not it was set up in the divorce/child support arrangements, it sounds like he wants to provide some level of support to her. It's up to him to exercise some sound judgement with regard to how much he gives his daughter. He probably has some issues with regard to the choices he's making with regard to how he handles this situation. I would think that all of the money being provided to her would first come out of grandpa's money? Is this not so? Why not?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Oct 24, 2013 8:14:19 GMT -5
I hate to be like Doxie, but here's more: SD also has a part time work study job that she makes like $10/hr on or something, I think she gets 10-15 hours a week. It's working for the theater department there. So that is great, right? She's making her own spending money. Which we were very proud of her for. But that's HER money. Not her spending money. That has to come from US. Get it? It never ceases to amaze me how adults will acquiesce in this matter and then complain that the kid is selfish, irresponsible and spoiled! WTF....the answer is no, you need to earn your own spending money....end of discussion. Your DH is actively facilitating the response he gets from his daughter. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got...done. I noticed a bunch of folks saying $250 / month isn't a lot of money, but it is a lot when it's on top of having room/board and all meals provided. I think being a broke college student paying my own way has helped me tremendously in managing my finances. During college, I worked at a gas station because they provided tuition reimbursement. I hated that job, and any purchase that I made at the time I related to how many hours I had to work at that dreaded job to pay for it. It paid about $5/hr, so most things cost several hours/days of what I considered hell. Looking back, I worked too many hours/week with a FT course load to get that tuition reimbursement. So in the long run, it wasn't really worth it. But I did come away with a valuable lesson in money management.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Oct 24, 2013 8:33:10 GMT -5
It's not HER money. It's money from me, her dad, and and her grandparents. Well, first, from what you specified earlier, the account from her grandfather is held by her father and herself....that doesn't involve you. Second, you're saying that you're personally providing money to your husbands daughter? Out of your income? You married a man with two children. He made a commitment to provide child support and support for college. And in my mind, before one remarries and has more kids, consider that these two are the first priority. Yes, first. All of the BS that goes on with step mothers and fathers being resentful of the support and crap that goes on with their spouses children just creates more angst and is ridiculous and grossly unfair to these kids. You can't divorce your kids. Whether or not it was set up in the divorce/child support arrangements, it sounds like he wants to provide some level of support to her. It's up to him to exercise some sound judgement with regard to how much he gives his daughter. He probably has some issues with regard to the choices he's making with regard to how he handles this situation. I would think that all of the money being provided to her would first come out of grandpa's money? Is this not so? Why not? This is the attitude that is probably the crux of the problem. Because someone came first, screw all that came later, right? If there were never a divorce and just more kids with the same mother, the father (and mother) could decide how to divvy up resources for the kids education so there would be enough for all the kids, and I bet you he'd never put up with that kind of behavior from his daughter. But since there was a divorce, he needs to sacrifice the latter for the sake of the former, and just take the abuse?
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Oct 24, 2013 8:44:50 GMT -5
Well, first, from what you specified earlier, the account from her grandfather is held by her father and herself....that doesn't involve you. Second, you're saying that you're personally providing money to your husbands daughter? Out of your income? You married a man with two children. He made a commitment to provide child support and support for college. And in my mind, before one remarries and has more kids, consider that these two are the first priority. Yes, first. All of the BS that goes on with step mothers and fathers being resentful of the support and crap that goes on with their spouses children just creates more angst and is ridiculous and grossly unfair to these kids. You can't divorce your kids. Whether or not it was set up in the divorce/child support arrangements, it sounds like he wants to provide some level of support to her. It's up to him to exercise some sound judgement with regard to how much he gives his daughter. He probably has some issues with regard to the choices he's making with regard to how he handles this situation. I would think that all of the money being provided to her would first come out of grandpa's money? Is this not so? Why not? This is the attitude that is probably the crux of the problem. Because someone came first, screw all that came later, right? If there were never a divorce and just more kids with the same mother, the father (and mother) could decide how to divvy up resources for the kids education so there would be enough for all the kids, and I bet you he'd never put up with that kind of behavior from his daughter. But since there was a divorce, he needs to sacrifice the latter for the sake of the former, and just take the abuse? Ah, taking an enormous leap based on being pissed off ? What I'm referring to is the lack of fore thought that often goes into remarriage by divorced parents with dependent children. Knowing that you'll have this responsibility of not just money, but hopefully time and the split allegiances that are the product of these situations. I'm not saying that Honey BBQ's kid should be disregarded. Her DH's decision making skills and judgement are what I'm referring to. There have been countless posts on these forums with disgruntled step parents. For the most part, and I realize, not always, a step parent isn't going to have the same level of care, love and concern that they do for their own children. When it is perceived that the DH's resources are being "unfairly" used for the children from his previous marriage, that is what I refer to as the split allegiances and BS. In my mind there are two things going on, the issues that DH has with his daughter and the issues that arise from the fact that good times or bad, he has a kid that he wants to provide for and will come under some amount of scrutiny when the step mother decides that her resources or her child's resources are being compromised. I get that. But, she chose to marry someone who had already been married and divorced and had two children that he still loves, cares for and wants to provide for. It will always be an issue to some extent.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 24, 2013 8:45:15 GMT -5
I don't think that's what she was saying...
But as someone whose father remarried and had more children late in life (I was 21-22 when my half-siblings were born), I can see where the SD is coming from (although NOT excusing her behavior in any way). There can be a feeling that the parent gave up on his/her first family and decided to start fresh with another. And when my dad turned out to be a good father to his second set of kids (he was pretty much absent when my brother and sister and I were young), it felt like a slap in the face. Almost 10 years later, I can tell myself that he finally grew up and matured, and it wasn't a reflection on us as not being worthy enough, etc., but in my early twenties, it was hard to process.
Sometimes it's hard to see things from the other side. Regardless of how justified the SD's feelings are, they are her feelings. While I think demanding civility before opening the wallet again is a good plan, it's going to take some time to break 4+ (and more likely 18) years of bad habits.
Just my $0.02.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 8:53:44 GMT -5
No on full access to the money. Stories don't make any sense & she doesn't need DH's CV to do anything related to a school application. I say there's an addiction problem. You would never give an addict full access, unless you want them dead.
Doesn't sound like your DH sees the cranky girl much. If you think something is really going on, he should plan a surprise visit. Then you will be able to tell for sure if she is just a nasty person, or if she's got a problem.
She behaves how she's allowed to behave.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 9:08:09 GMT -5
On the one hand, this is all probably accurate. On the other, "Aww... the poor little spoiled rich girl is depressed... how sad..." Tough shit princess, grow the fuck up and quit being a douche. Just because a kid's family has money doesn't mean they don't have problems and feelings. If you prick her, does she not bleed? If you tickle her, does she not laugh? If you poison her, does she not die?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 24, 2013 9:08:55 GMT -5
On the one hand, this is all probably accurate. On the other, "Aww... the poor little spoiled rich girl is depressed... how sad..." Tough shit princess, grow the fuck up and quit being a douche. Just because a kid's family has money doesn't mean they don't have problems and feelings. If you prick her, does she not bleed? If you tickle her, does she not laugh? If you poison her, does she not die? Nobody is suggesting we poison her...............
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 24, 2013 9:39:18 GMT -5
Is it really that outrageous for the father to request a budget from her to give her the $250/mth? My parents required access to my bank account - which they routinely checked - and I needed to keep track of what I spent money on if I wanted them to back me up if I ran out of money (I wasn't working many hours, with their blessing so I could focus on school, but they weren't sending me money willy nilly). Oh, and I was spending about $250/mth when I was in college, but I was in an apt so that included food, gas for my car, clothes, and then any entertainment/etc.
She said tuition was $9k when it was $6k. She spent $1800 on a laptop - where the hell is the other $1200? Divide by four months the semester and there's $300/mth spending money she wants. She's asking for $250 on top of that - is $550/mth outrageous for spending money for an 18 year old? How about when you add her $100/wk from her job (maybe a little less, but I didn't pay much taxes when I worked for the college as a student).
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Oct 24, 2013 9:42:13 GMT -5
Could your DH try going to see HER, and seeing his DS on the side, instead of it being the other way around? Honey I KNOW she is being hateful, but I think Shan has some good advice. And since what you guys are doing now doesn't seem to be working out that well, maybe try something else? Maybe your DH can say he wants to spend a weekend with her, he's like to spend some time together? If she blows him off, she blows him off. But at least he will know he tried his best. If your DH's son is in the same city, and they have a good relationship now, it seems logical that THEY make plans together, and then (understandably) your DH tries to include his DD too. Maybe it's worth trying to make plans with just HER, this time? Dunno, just trying to help. Debt - we have tried. In the past, he has gone to see her, bought $600 tickets, and then she gets mad about something and won't see him. They've made plans and she has no qualms about canceling them. We've bought HER tickets to come see us, and she simply decides not to get on the plane. It's really rather amazing how unavailable she makes herself until she needs something. I would fully support them going away for a weekend and being together. I have ALWAYS encouraged their special time together. And he has always tried to make it happen. I wish she were more open to a relationship. But at this point I just don't think she is. It is a helpful thought. There's no smoking gun here. Honestly, I just wanted to vent and I have heard some good things here. Suggesting a therapist to her mom might be the best one. Honestly, if I even thought of pulling this type of thing... my mother would have pulled the plug after the first or second time and said that while she loved me should would not deal with such disgusting and rude behavior and when I was ready to be respectful and responsible then and only then could I contact her. My step brother attempted a bit of the "i hate you- I'm going to live with my mom!" rebellion. (my step-father got full custody of both of his sons in the early 80s when he divorced- that speaks to the character of the mother) My mother packed his shit and basically said "I love you and I'm sorry you feel that way, but your clothes are packed and your father will take you when he gets home from work" and then they followed through. Of course, several days later he wanted to come back home where he was loved and got fed proper meals. My mother would not let him return until he apologized and he was told that if he ever pulled that again, he would not get to come home. I think some straight up tough love is needed. "Until you can speak to me with love and treat me with respect, I am not only NOT giving you anything but I'm also not going to listen to you or react to you or deal with you in any way."
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 24, 2013 9:45:35 GMT -5
How about when you add her $100/wk from her job (maybe a little less, but I didn't pay much taxes when I worked for the college as a student
Where is the money from the part time job going? I think that's something DH should try to dig into. It's really odd to me that she told you it's "her" money but insists you give her another $250 a month for spending. Where is "her" money going?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 24, 2013 9:51:01 GMT -5
Gotta admit, I'm totally baffled by some of this. If the kid won't bother to see me, or talk to me directly, why on earth would I send her money every time she texted to demand it? That just doesn't make a lick of sense to me. I've got to believe, if DH would sit down, clear his mind, and take a good, long look at that little scenario he'd see the error of his ways.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 24, 2013 9:58:24 GMT -5
It's the whole situation that's effed up. The money is a symptom of everything that's out of whack and apparently the only way the two communicate. That means every money topic is coming loaded. I'm still scratching my head over not seeing your kid in four years . . .It's Honey that hasn't seen her in that long. She said her DH last saw her at HS graduation (so May/June) though it seems like he's tried to since then but she's refused.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 24, 2013 9:59:11 GMT -5
DH would sit down, clear his mind, and take a good, long look at that little scenario he'd see the error of his ways.
Co-Dependent No More and Boundaries. Buy copies yesterday. DH really needs to read them because it sounds like him and SD have entered a cycle they can't get out of.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Oct 24, 2013 10:05:11 GMT -5
It never ceases to amaze me how adults will acquiesce in this matter and then complain that the kid is selfish, irresponsible and spoiled! WTF....the answer is no, you need to earn your own spending money....end of discussion. Your DH is actively facilitating the response he gets from his daughter. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got...done. I noticed a bunch of folks saying $250 / month isn't a lot of money, but it is a lot when it's on top of having room/board and all meals provided. I think being a broke college student paying my own way has helped me tremendously in managing my finances. During college, I worked at a gas station because they provided tuition reimbursement. I hated that job, and any purchase that I made at the time I related to how many hours I had to work at that dreaded job to pay for it. It paid about $5/hr, so most things cost several hours/days of what I considered hell. Looking back, I worked too many hours/week with a FT course load to get that tuition reimbursement. So in the long run, it wasn't really worth it. But I did come away with a valuable lesson in money management.It may be a lot, but consider their income/resources. She did not say they can't afford it - she said her Step daughter is acting like a spoiled brat. DS is getting room/board and all meals provided - but it is pretty mediocre white people food that they serve in the cafeteria. DH just wants to be sure our kids eat. DS also has a car at school so he has to put gas in it. Sure, he could go without a car, he did for most of the first semester, but his Dad and I finally decided to let him drive back and forth rather that have DH doing round trips on the weekend. I like having DS home on the weekend. We can afford to provide the car/insurance/gas so we do. I am more concerned about what seems to be emotianal instability. I would like to see her get some mental health counselling. A young adult changing schools or majors Meh, no big deal--I think it is pretty common, but the whole context of the situation is a little concerning. That said the emotional outburst would be unheard of in my 20 year old son. He has never had emotional outbursts. My DD on the other hand, she has had them, still does to a lesser extent that before...and I will probably still see it when she gets to college. My DD is a very high energy, aggressive, managing personality. She is her Dad (A sales person) all over again. It has been evident since she was 2. I am going back to read about that computer. I missed something. I pay DS's tuition and fees directly through his student account. The State University he attends has book rental, so his book fees are reasonable. My account is actually loaded into his university account so he could pay his fees without my permission. He could not sign up for classes on the first available day b/c he had a small outstanding bill. DH told him why didn't you whip out your CC and pay it and I said well you could have actually gone in and paid the bill with my checking account too you just have to hit the "pay from this account" button. DD would have figured out how to resolve on her own or called one of us. DS, was just ok, I will talk to Mom and Dad on the weekend and register on Monday. Of course when he went to register some of the classes he wanted were no longer available.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Oct 24, 2013 10:10:48 GMT -5
Why was the laptop 1800 and why did she need such an expensive one?
My co-worker's son was in a graphic arts program and the kids needed apple laptops vs. IBM clones. I think it was about that much. He also could have gotten a better deal buing it through apple but they had to purchase it through the bookstore - conseqently they got last year's model and a lesser warranty.
Could the cost be higher b/c it included software specific to her major?
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 10:40:30 GMT -5
KaraBoo - thanks for your thoughts. And right back at you. I told DH last night he can only be treated the way he allows other people to treat him. I hope things get better in your court, too. I'd be concerned about the potential release of the SS#, though if she has a copy of her FAFSA, she could get it anyway. Does/has your DH ever ask her why she behaves this way? I think there is no SSN on his CV so we should be ok there. Maybe 250 is too much, maybe it isn't. She does have a part time job of her own and all her other expenses are paid. My suspicions are that she has something else she wants and won't tell anyone what it is (go visit a boyfriend? Spa day? Who knows?). Their communication is strained to say the least, so I don't think she would answer "why" she asks this way. Last year all she wanted was to go to college and live in the dorms. She got that. Why isn't she happy? We don't know. I don't know if SHE knows. Okay, so you haven't actually seen/talked to her years? Your reaction is based on what DH tells you? --No judgement, just clarifying. I was trying to remember this myself. I guess it's been a year and a half since I've seen her. Everything is through DH - what he gets in texts and what happened when he went to visit for a week and things that everyone told him. So yes, this is a telephone game but the money is real at least. HoneyBBQ, is there a court order stating your DH pays for DSS's tuition or give her money every month now that she's 18? No. There is no court order. We don't "legally" have to do anything. We still provide medical insurance for both the kids, too. And we WANT to help them through this, but it's not like we HAVE to. HoneyBBQ, Interesting; I feel a bit of camaraderie with you in the step-parenting scheme of things. I'm curious to see your answers/updates. And as I sometimes do like to point out--I have an English degree and still make $81K per year. Not all liberal arts degrees are a horrible plan. (I'm really just trying to help you smile.) I do hope you feel better after venting. Hugs! Chloe That did make me laugh, thanks. No seriously, we don't care WHAT she does as long as she's happy. We completely supported her doing theater and I think its really cool that she has that kind of creativity and skill. I would totally support anthropology, too, or whatever, as long as it was a rational decision. My worry is that she's only been in school a month or two. Maybe someone told her theater was dumb, or maybe she got a bad grade and now she wants to quit. I think she's very sensitive to peer pressure or criticism so we just don't know where this is coming from. It's not HER money. It's money from me, her dad, and and her grandparents. Well, first, from what you specified earlier, the account from her grandfather is held by her father and herself....that doesn't involve you. Second, you're saying that you're personally providing money to your husbands daughter? Out of your income? You married a man with two children. He made a commitment to provide child support and support for college. And in my mind, before one remarries and has more kids, consider that these two are the first priority. Yes, first. All of the BS that goes on with step mothers and fathers being resentful of the support and crap that goes on with their spouses children just creates more angst and is ridiculous and grossly unfair to these kids. You can't divorce your kids. Whether or not it was set up in the divorce/child support arrangements, it sounds like he wants to provide some level of support to her. It's up to him to exercise some sound judgement with regard to how much he gives his daughter. He probably has some issues with regard to the choices he's making with regard to how he handles this situation. I would think that all of the money being provided to her would first come out of grandpa's money? Is this not so? Why not? Ok, well we'll just to agree to disagree about importance of "child birth order" for eternity. That said, there are 2 college accounts. One was provided by the grandparents. One is a pile of money that includes SOME money prior to the divorce and SOME money that is put in there from our joint pot. So, no, I have not contributed a majority in any way to this account. The alimony and child support over the years DID (essentially, one way or another). But this is not about the money. She could go to Yale and we'd figure out a way to swing it. That is not the point. That said, mindlessly spending the money is not what anyone has in mind. Neither her grandparents, nor us. Our plan IS to use her first account and then her second.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 10:45:45 GMT -5
Could your DH try going to see HER, and seeing his DS on the side, instead of it being the other way around?Honey I KNOW she is being hateful, but I think Shan has some good advice. And since what you guys are doing now doesn't seem to be working out that well, maybe try something else? Maybe your DH can say he wants to spend a weekend with her, he's like to spend some time together? If she blows him off, she blows him off. But at least he will know he tried his best. If your DH's son is in the same city, and they have a good relationship now, it seems logical that THEY make plans together, and then (understandably) your DH tries to include his DD too. Maybe it's worth trying to make plans with just HER, this time? Dunno, just trying to help. I agree. I also do not see the scenario that dad is in town and she wanted money but wouldn't meet with him....huh? "Hey sweetheart - I'm at the hospital with your grandmother. I've made out the check that you request, let's meet at the hospital cafeteria and have lunch and I'll give you the check." Are you seriously saying that she refused to meet him so he mailed the check? He has the money - she wants it - he can make a meeting happen. He should not get angry, hurt, or emotional. He should arrange to see her - only her - and the money doesn't change hands on without that. Time for someone to put on their big kid pants - and it's not the teenager! He should communicate with her - maybe text if that is all that is open currently. "Sweetie, I want to talk about your idea for a 250/month allowance. Maybe there are some issues I'm not understanding about your life and I want to understand that. I can come into town to meet for dinner (give choice of 3 weekends or have her suggest a date)" Also - I think he should go to this meeting already deciding he is going to give up the 250/month. This isn't about money right now - this is about repairing his relationship with his daughter. Giving her a chance to speak with him, and having him listen and respond in a way that will foster a continuing relationship. You are ready to hand over all the money anyway - why NOT acquiesce to her request for a bit more? You say he hasn't had a lot of contact for the past few years - meaning she was 15 or 16. It was HIS responsibility to maintain this relationship. Yes - these are the difficult, painful, thankless years of parenting. But the responsibility is with the parent to maintain a relationship and have whatever positive influence they can (and that is rather limited in these years!). But it is NOT ok to completely abdicate your role as a parent and avoid this painful epoch. It sounds like he decided to just bypass the angry hostility and not deal with it. Teens withdraw - but you can't let them withdraw completely! He dropped the ball here - he needs to pick it up. She is angry and upset. He needs to deal with that and try to help her! He needs to be a parent here, not a wounded avoider of his own responsibility. You yourself haven't even seen her in 4 years. This is not an OK situation. He needs to re-establish a relationship with his daughter. When that is going well, then you need to as well. Ok. You have clearly never met with someone who is manipulative. YES. She refused to see him when he was visiting his mother and take the check. Even IF she took vacation time, FOUND some sliver of time that she would be willing to spare to go see him - she would show up, take the check and then leave. She is not open to talking. She just WANTS what she WANTS and she WANTS it now. Acquiescing to her demands for years is EXACTLY what has her/us/him in this spot now. I saw her 1.5-2 yrs ago. She lives in another state and is college. I have a toddler and a full time job. She "says" she hates me more than she hates her dad. Going to see her is not going to happen. She is welcome here and we actually were planning on having her out at Xmas before this debacle but she said she's not coming now. This is what she does. You assume she is logical and open to a discussion. She is not. She wants what she wants and she yells at you until she gets it. Then she wants something else. There is no break from it.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 10:49:26 GMT -5
This is the attitude that is probably the crux of the problem. Because someone came first, screw all that came later, right? If there were never a divorce and just more kids with the same mother, the father (and mother) could decide how to divvy up resources for the kids education so there would be enough for all the kids, and I bet you he'd never put up with that kind of behavior from his daughter. But since there was a divorce, he needs to sacrifice the latter for the sake of the former, and just take the abuse? Ah, taking an enormous leap based on being pissed off ? What I'm referring to is the lack of fore thought that often goes into remarriage by divorced parents with dependent children. Knowing that you'll have this responsibility of not just money, but hopefully time and the split allegiances that are the product of these situations. I'm not saying that Honey BBQ's kid should be disregarded. Her DH's decision making skills and judgement are what I'm referring to. There have been countless posts on these forums with disgruntled step parents. For the most part, and I realize, not always, a step parent isn't going to have the same level of care, love and concern that they do for their own children. When it is perceived that the DH's resources are being "unfairly" used for the children from his previous marriage, that is what I refer to as the split allegiances and BS. In my mind there are two things going on, the issues that DH has with his daughter and the issues that arise from the fact that good times or bad, he has a kid that he wants to provide for and will come under some amount of scrutiny when the step mother decides that her resources or her child's resources are being compromised. I get that. But, she chose to marry someone who had already been married and divorced and had two children that he still loves, cares for and wants to provide for. It will always be an issue to some extent. We are probably more well off financially than 90% of the divorce parents ... anywhere. We are very lucky. Providing financially for the children (all of them, first place, second place and the last place) is not going to be a problem. You can think that resource management is the problem and jealousy and all kinds of catty crap. But it's not. I can't really convince you otherwise. When DSD was younger, she said she wanted to go to Harvard. I can assure you that the college funds originally provided by the grandparents wouldn't buy a her a YEAR at Harvard. We discussed this and decided that would be fine - it would require pooling lots of our resources to do it but we would do it for his daughter. I knew exactly what I was getting into when we got together. To suggest otherwise is really disrespectful to me, considering you don't know me and are just guessing based on... tv? Other people? I don't know. But it's not true and it's not fair that you assign those attributes to me and my family.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 24, 2013 10:51:43 GMT -5
Could your DH try going to see HER, and seeing his DS on the side, instead of it being the other way around?Honey I KNOW she is being hateful, but I think Shan has some good advice. And since what you guys are doing now doesn't seem to be working out that well, maybe try something else? Maybe your DH can say he wants to spend a weekend with her, he's like to spend some time together? If she blows him off, she blows him off. But at least he will know he tried his best. If your DH's son is in the same city, and they have a good relationship now, it seems logical that THEY make plans together, and then (understandably) your DH tries to include his DD too. Maybe it's worth trying to make plans with just HER, this time? Dunno, just trying to help. I agree. I also do not see the scenario that dad is in town and she wanted money but wouldn't meet with him....huh? "Hey sweetheart - I'm at the hospital with your grandmother. I've made out the check that you request, let's meet at the hospital cafeteria and have lunch and I'll give you the check." Are you seriously saying that she refused to meet him so he mailed the check? He has the money - she wants it - he can make a meeting happen. He should not get angry, hurt, or emotional. He should arrange to see her - only her - and the money doesn't change hands on without that. Time for someone to put on their big kid pants - and it's not the teenager! He should communicate with her - maybe text if that is all that is open currently. "Sweetie, I want to talk about your idea for a 250/month allowance. Maybe there are some issues I'm not understanding about your life and I want to understand that. I can come into town to meet for dinner (give choice of 3 weekends or have her suggest a date)" Also - I think he should go to this meeting already deciding he is going to give up the 250/month. This isn't about money right now - this is about repairing his relationship with his daughter. Giving her a chance to speak with him, and having him listen and respond in a way that will foster a continuing relationship. You are ready to hand over all the money anyway - why NOT acquiesce to her request for a bit more? You say he hasn't had a lot of contact for the past few years - meaning she was 15 or 16. It was HIS responsibility to maintain this relationship. Yes - these are the difficult, painful, thankless years of parenting. But the responsibility is with the parent to maintain a relationship and have whatever positive influence they can (and that is rather limited in these years!). But it is NOT ok to completely abdicate your role as a parent and avoid this painful epoch. It sounds like he decided to just bypass the angry hostility and not deal with it. Teens withdraw - but you can't let them withdraw completely! He dropped the ball here - he needs to pick it up. She is angry and upset. He needs to deal with that and try to help her! He needs to be a parent here, not a wounded avoider of his own responsibility. You yourself haven't even seen her in 4 years. This is not an OK situation. He needs to re-establish a relationship with his daughter. When that is going well, then you need to as well. I think all of this advice is nice if there is an underlying functional relationship there, somewhere. You can't expect irrational people to act in a rational way. It just doesn't happen. If the bio mom has basically fed the girl a diet of "Your dad is worthless. He's done nothing for us. He's just a big jackass." and THAT's what the step daughter chooses to believe, there's NOTHING her dad can say or do to change her mind. NOTHING. He can write her a check for a million dollars. That still won't change what she thinks or believes. And, after 18 years of being fed lines about her dad, do you think she's just going to drop on a dime? Do you think that after being in college for 2 months she's going to "get it?" Now, I'll admit I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. I don't have a STEM degree, afterall. I didn't "get it" until my marriage fell apart. I didn't get it until I was a mother myself. Her dad's job isn't to grovel for a relationship. To put up with whatever crap she'll dish out because mom spoke ill of him, to have his daughter in his life at all costs. Parental alienation is the pits. It really, really is. Be lucky that you haven't gone through it. Shit, my mom instructed me to lie to my dad. (Your dad is being secretive. You had better not tell him one damn thing that we did today. It's none of his business.) I was also instructed to spy on my dad, and when I didn't do that well enough, I got yelled at. I also knew my father's love was unconditional, where as my mother's love was very conditional. Who do you think I "obeyed?" The step daughter will not be helped until she is ready for it. I had to lose my relationship with my parents in order to get healthy. It's one thing to mourn your parents when they actually die. It's whole other thing to mourn the loss of your parents while they are still living. No one can "force" her to deal with her realities before she's ready. It's like asking an addict to sober up before they are ready to. It just won't work. This is a journey this girl is going to have to work through on her own. No one can "help" her be emotionally/mentally sound, other than a therapist.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 10:52:41 GMT -5
It's the whole situation that's effed up. The money is a symptom of everything that's out of whack and apparently the only way the two communicate. That means every money topic is coming loaded. I'm still scratching my head over not seeing your kid in four years . . . He has seen her multiple times every year. For me it's hard when you have an infant to travel and only makes it more complicated. Usually he travels alone so he can have 1 on 1 time with his children. When she was in high school we would travel together on spring breaks or stuff (most of this was before I had my daughter). We actually did have fun on these trips - but she did still have attitude.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 10:53:23 GMT -5
DH would sit down, clear his mind, and take a good, long look at that little scenario he'd see the error of his ways. Co-Dependent No More and Boundaries. Buy copies yesterday. DH really needs to read them because it sounds like him and SD have entered a cycle they can't get out of. Thank you for the suggestion.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Oct 24, 2013 10:56:24 GMT -5
and a therapist won't help her until she realizes there is a problem and is willing to do something about it.
right now, there isn't a problem. she screams, she gets what she wants. no problem.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 10:57:14 GMT -5
Why was the laptop 1800 and why did she need such an expensive one? My co-worker's son was in a graphic arts program and the kids needed apple laptops vs. IBM clones. I think it was about that much. He also could have gotten a better deal buing it through apple but they had to purchase it through the bookstore - conseqently they got last year's model and a lesser warranty. Could the cost be higher b/c it included softwarge specific to her major? *sigh* Honestly, we have no idea. She probably just bought the fanciest, slickest macbook pro something or other. I don't know why. She already got a tablet thing earlier (before school started) that was something she wanted for sketching and drawing on. She didn't consult us or ask us anything about what she should buy. I am 99% sure it has nothing to do with her college and about Skyping her friends or appearances of being rich. Honestly, if she had said, "Hey Dad, my program requires XYZ" we could have at least had a discussion about it. Or repaired her old ibook. Or something. She hasn't had those kinds of conversations with us. I don't know if she's had them with anyone. She just refuses to be accountable. Which I can understand. But there is a middle ground where she gets some autonomy and we don't have to feel duped. We're just no where near that middle ground.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 10:58:57 GMT -5
I don't think that's what she was saying... But as someone whose father remarried and had more children late in life (I was 21-22 when my half-siblings were born), I can see where the SD is coming from (although NOT excusing her behavior in any way). There can be a feeling that the parent gave up on his/her first family and decided to start fresh with another. And when my dad turned out to be a good father to his second set of kids (he was pretty much absent when my brother and sister and I were young), it felt like a slap in the face. Almost 10 years later, I can tell myself that he finally grew up and matured, and it wasn't a reflection on us as not being worthy enough, etc., but in my early twenties, it was hard to process. Sometimes it's hard to see things from the other side. Regardless of how justified the SD's feelings are, they are her feelings. While I think demanding civility before opening the wallet again is a good plan, it's going to take some time to break 4+ (and more likely 18) years of bad habits. Just my $0.02. A very valuable 2 cents too! So - there is a 2 yo half sister, and the father let go of his relationship with his teen daughter 2-3 years ago? It seems to me that the father gave up the difficult job of parenting a teen daughter (hateful, hormonal, and narcissistic - and newsflash - that is developmentally normal!) and turned his attention to the new daughter. Easy - and guilt free. I can't even imagine how that seems to the teen daughter! Or how that feels to her. He had a new daughter and easily let go of the thread of his relationship with her.... Where what is in her best interest, her emotional needs, her ideas for the future, are important to her father This isn't about money at all, imho, except how this young woman equates money as her only evidence of paternal care or involvement. However, perhaps the father can use this money situation to help reestablish ties and work on this relationship. The impulse to give over all the money is a terrible idea. Almost like a payoff - here take this and don't come back.... Wow. Talk about a complete inaccurate description. He did NOT give up on her. He did have another daughter. Yes, that is hard on her. Yes she has the right to feel jealous. But he DID NOT stop talking to her, caring about her, trying to spend time with her, etc. NONE of that happened.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Oct 24, 2013 11:02:09 GMT -5
Ah, taking an enormous leap based on being pissed off ? What I'm referring to is the lack of fore thought that often goes into remarriage by divorced parents with dependent children. Knowing that you'll have this responsibility of not just money, but hopefully time and the split allegiances that are the product of these situations. I'm not saying that Honey BBQ's kid should be disregarded. Her DH's decision making skills and judgement are what I'm referring to. There have been countless posts on these forums with disgruntled step parents. For the most part, and I realize, not always, a step parent isn't going to have the same level of care, love and concern that they do for their own children. When it is perceived that the DH's resources are being "unfairly" used for the children from his previous marriage, that is what I refer to as the split allegiances and BS. In my mind there are two things going on, the issues that DH has with his daughter and the issues that arise from the fact that good times or bad, he has a kid that he wants to provide for and will come under some amount of scrutiny when the step mother decides that her resources or her child's resources are being compromised. I get that. But, she chose to marry someone who had already been married and divorced and had two children that he still loves, cares for and wants to provide for. It will always be an issue to some extent. We are probably more well off financially than 90% of the divorce parents ... anywhere. We are very lucky. Providing financially for the children (all of them, first place, second place and the last place) is not going to be a problem. You can think that resource management is the problem and jealousy and all kinds of catty crap. But it's not. I can't really convince you otherwise. When DSD was younger, she said she wanted to go to Harvard. I can assure you that the college funds originally provided by the grandparents wouldn't buy a her a YEAR at Harvard. We discussed this and decided that would be fine - it would require pooling lots of our resources to do it but we would do it for his daughter. I knew exactly what I was getting into when we got together. To suggest otherwise is really disrespectful to me, considering you don't know me and are just guessing based on... tv? Other people? I don't know. But it's not true and it's not fair that you assign those attributes to me and my family. These comments are my opinion based on your posts and the similarity to others who are in a similar situation in life. It is only my opinion. I'm entitled to post it as long as I remain within the bounds of the CoC on this board. You've shared some very personal information, and realize, I would assume, that you take the risk that some of the responses will not be to your liking and perhaps seem unfair or unwarranted. I don't owe you any measure of respect. Respect is something that is earned. As you've stated I don't know you except for your postings. That would lead me to believe that any response form anyone, unless it's something that you're ok with, can be dismissed because, well, no one here "knows you".
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