Gun culture has to go- enough!

[Shooby]

  So, are you going to talk them out of it?

[billisonboard]

Nov 6, 2013 9:07:48 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  So, are you going to talk them out of it?

Personally, I think it is a matter of patience.

The share of American households with guns has declined over the past four decades, a national survey shows, with some of the most surprising drops in the South and the Western mountain states, where guns are deeply embedded in the culture.

The gun ownership rate has fallen across a broad cross section of households since the early 1970s, according to data from the General Social Survey, a public opinion survey conducted every two years that asks a sample of American adults if they have guns at home, among other questions.

The rate has dropped in cities large and small, in suburbs and rural areas and in all regions of the country. It has fallen among households with children, and among those without. It has declined for households that say they are very happy, and for those that say they are not. It is down among churchgoers and those who never sit in pews.

The household gun ownership rate has fallen from an average of 50 percent in the 1970s to 49 percent in the 1980s, 43 percent in the 1990s and 35 percent in the 2000s, according to the survey data, analyzed by The New York Times. www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html?_r=0

[zibazinski]

Geez, and we added to it. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Nov 6, 2013 10:21:37 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Geez, and we added to it. 

So does practically everyone I know - including me.  I've never had any faith in "surveys" and this one reinforces my belief that they are not an accurate portrayal of the issue.

[zibazinski]

Remember statistics class? Everything can be manipulated to get the desired outcome.

[billisonboard]

Population of the US is over 300,000,000 people.
35 % of that population would be over 100,000,000 people.
You know 20, 50, 100, 1,000,000 people?
Either the select group of people who you know are over represented in the 35% or the survey is wrong.

[Green Eyed Lady]

You are correct.  And I'm betting on the latter.  If one wishes to believe that survey...fine.    Doesn't matter to me.  I'm just throwing out there for discussion....that it might be crap. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Just for a lark, I picked out who I would call my 10 best acquaintences.  Eight of them, that I know of, own weapons.  That's 80%.  Of course, I know that like-minded people tend to hang out together - no question.  I'm just saying one can skew things to reflect whatever they want it to reflect.  Now?  Maybe that IS a decline from...let's say 90% four decades ago (although most of my test group wasn't alive four decades ago).  I highly doubt it, tho.

[billisonboard]

Nov 6, 2013 11:07:24 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Just for a lark, I picked out who I would call my 10 best acquaintences.  ...

For comparison:

The GSS contains a standard 'core' of demographic, behavioral, and attitudinal questions, plus topics of special interest. Many of the core questions have remained unchanged since 1972 to facilitate time-trend studies as well as replication of earlier findings. The GSS takes the pulse of America, and is a unique and valuable resource. It has tracked the opinions of Americans over the last four decades.


Trends

The GSS is widely regarded as the single best source of data on societal trends. The 1972-2012 GSS has 5,545 variables, time-trends for 2,072 variables, and 268 trends having 20+ data points. You can find links to pre-generated trends or create your own tables in and SDA (1972-2012) and NESSTAR (1972-2006). To generate time-trends in SDA (1972-2012) using its cross-tabulation program, specify the variable you would like to analyze as a "column" variable, and then specify the variable YEAR as the "row" variable, and request percentaging by rows (instead of columns). www3.norc.org/gss+website/

[zibazinski]

I bet this survey would vary by area of the country.

[Deleted]

Nov 6, 2013 11:39:56 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I bet this survey would vary by area of the country.

I'll say, every single person I know here in AR owns firearms.

[zibazinski]

We live in a community of 25 houses. 3 don't have guns. 7 don't carry. I feel safer knowing this.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I should have added, that in my sample test of acquaintences who own weapons, two of them use them in their employment.  I'm not sure they would still have them if it weren't necessary for their jobs.  There again.....another variable....those who aren't "gun nuts" but still have weapons in their home.

One more still....are these people telling the truth?  If someone asked me how many weapons I owned, there could be several possible answers depending on how intruded upon I felt at the time.

A.    I could tell them the truth.
B.    I could lie my ass off and say, "One."
C.    I could lie my ass of even worse and say "I don't have weapons."
D.    I could tell them it wasn't any of their business.


Surveys like this suck.   How about a survey asking if a person has ever smoked pot....or had an affair...or kicked a dog?  People lie.  I'm sure GSS is a highly reputable source.  Not questioning that.  God could take a survey and people would still try to lie.  My opinion is that it is worthless.  But that's not based on any special knowledge or study of the subject.  It's just based on what I know to be true.

[Deleted]

It's not any type of issue to own or carry guns here.  There is little or no discussion about gun culture either.  I think the term gun culture are just liberal media buzzwords that are often used to promote erosion of our second amendment rights.  If someone doesn't have the mental fortitude to protect themselves from harm, they deserve what they get.  That isn't going to stop me from protecting me or my family.   Maybe the people who hate the gun culture can switch to disliking the pipe wrench culture.  A 58 year old man was attacked and struck with a 24 inch pipewrench by a 49 year old man in Mountain Home AR.  The 58 year old shot him in the leg, ending the confrontation.  The wrench wielder was arrested.  It was in the Baxter Bulletin (.com).

[EVT1]

Away.  How- that is a real good question since it permeates just about every part of society here.  I imagine it will go away once we get off our ass and fix the poverty problem and let a few generations come through.  Sure crime is and has been dropping for decades- but that doesn't help when so many are promoting a culture of fear.  When large numbers of people are in fear of the government, in fear of their neighbors, in fear of strangers, in fear of minorities, etc. and the result of that fear is to inject massive numbers of firearms into the mix- well, look around.
 

[mmhmm]

In my immediate circle of friends, one other person owns a gun.  There are about twenty of us.  My daughter's DH has a rifle.  My son and his boys have long guns.  None of them have hand guns (only I have one).  As to acquaintances, I wouldn't know.  It's not something we discuss.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Oh gosh!  We discuss it 'round here all the time.  We get bored with discussing the latest book we read, what politicians we currently hate, and how long Kathy was in labor with her latest, the best way to discipline little Johnny when he won't eat his spinach, whether or not abortion should be legal, whether or not Obama was born in the US, and who gets offended if we pray before our meal.  The subject just automatically turns to guns. 

[billisonboard]

Nov 6, 2013 12:06:27 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

... My opinion is that it is worthless. But that's not based on any special knowledge or study of the subject. It's just based on what I know to be true.

That makes perfect sense. When one already possesses truth, knowledge and study is worthless.

[Green Eyed Lady]

All I can say is I value real-life experience over a survey, bill.  You are, of course, free to believe whatever you want.  Forgive me if I am unable to discount what I have seen and know to be true because some survey tells me it isn't.  That makes no sense to me whatsoever, but then I'm not all that smart.

[billisonboard]

Nov 6, 2013 15:04:34 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

All I can say is a value real-life experience over a survey, bill.  You are, of course, free to believe whatever you want.  Forgive me if I am unable to discount what I have seen and know to be true because some survey tells me it isn't.  That makes no sense to me whatsoever, but then I'm not all that smart.

I too value real life experience. I however realize the limits of my real life experience.

Do people lie on surveys? Sure. They did in the 1970's and do in the 2000's. Did some lie saying that they didn't have guns when they did? Probably. Did some lie saying that they did have guns when they didn't? That is likely also. How does that balance out? Hard to say. The survey placed gun ownership at 50% in the 1970's and at 35% in the 2000's. Was actual ownership higher (or lower) than 50% in the 1970's? Maybe. Is the actual ownership higher (or lower) than the 35% reported in the 2000's? Maybe. Regardless, the survey indicates a 15% drop drop in reported gun ownership. Whether or not the numbers are totally accurate, why is there a reported 15% drop?

Gun ownership is one of over 2000 variables that this survey looks at. It isn't a pro or anti gun survey. It doesn't have a "gun" agenda. It is a general survey.

fwiw, this seems like a great opportunity for you to get smarter.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Didn't work!  I still know what I know....which isn't all that much! 

[mmhmm]

Nov 6, 2013 13:07:05 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Oh gosh!  We discuss it 'round here all the time.  We get bored with discussing the latest book we read, what politicians we currently hate, and how long Kathy was in labor with her latest, the best way to discipline little Johnny when he won't eat his spinach, whether or not abortion should be legal, whether or not Obama was born in the US, and who gets offended if we pray before our meal.  The subject just automatically turns to guns. 

Just the difference in societal morés prevalent in different areas, I suppose, GEL.  I don't think I've ever been a part of a conversation about guns among my friends.  At least, I can't remember having had that happen.

[billisonboard]

Nov 6, 2013 16:00:23 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Didn't work!  I still know what I know....which isn't all that much! 

Hey you did put five minutes of effort into it.

[Green Eyed Lady]

That was a LOT for me.   You're welcome.

[zibazinski]

I don't see throwing money at poverty fixing it. I see it making it worse and subjecting more to it. Throw money at creating jobs.

[billisonboard]

Nov 6, 2013 17:00:58 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I don't see throwing money at poverty fixing it. I see it making it worse and subjecting more to it. Throw money at creating jobs.

[zibazinski]

Make business, especially small businesses more tax friendly, both for doing business and hiring employees. Jobs are what's needed not more welfare.

[kent]

Nov 6, 2013 12:06:27 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

One more still....are these people telling the truth?  If someone asked me how many weapons I owned, there could be several possible answers depending on how intruded upon I felt at the time.

A.    I could tell them the truth.
B.    I could lie my ass off and say, "One."
C.    I could lie my ass of even worse and say "I don't have weapons."
D.    I could tell them it wasn't any of their business.


Surveys like this suck.  

  Yep, these kind of "ownership" surveys are stupid.  If some clown shows up at my front door asking if I own a firearm, I'm sure as hell not going to provide him/her an answer.

I live in what most would "presume" to be a typical liberal CA neighborhood (because its' CA).

Well, surprise!  After all these years I know everybody quite well and I can tell you that almost all of them have firearms but would NEVER tell a stranger.

OK, I am bound to catch it for the following but.........

So, while we're on the subject of loading a magazine without hurting your thumb, because you don't own a Maglula UpLULA: 



In the event your are still having problems here's how to modify the M&P9/40/.357 sig 10 round magazines.



If you are having problems racking a slide (men or women) here's a little help 
 


 


 



 
    




     

[zibazinski]

I have one and I love it! No breaking nails!

[EVT1]

Nov 6, 2013 17:30:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 6, 2013 17:00:58 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I don't see throwing money at poverty fixing it. I see it making it worse and subjecting more to it. Throw money at creating jobs.

Reminds me of some classes back in the day- the big question being what causes crime?  Is it any surprise that gangs, murders, robberies are concentrated in poor areas?

You don't throw money at poverty- you throw money at education and job creation.  Now if people still want to buy this bullshit that minimum wage needs to go away, that the idea of a living wage needs to go away, then they need to accept the fact that there is a point people will reach and say 'fuck you'.  I know I would-  If the best offer I could get wasn't enough to pay for the roof over my head why would I even bother?  I find it so ironic that the people that complain the loudest about welfare are the same people that support a society that relies on it- by allowing companies to pay so low and offer no benefits so that the government has to take up the slack. Then they bitch about that too.