Gun culture has to go- enough!

[Green Eyed Lady]

Good questions.  My guess is law enforcement knows the answers and that's why they charged the afternoon delight guy with Disorderly.  Had the home owner done anything illegal, I would imagine they would have charged him, too.  Maybe they will later. 

Question about community property law:  If the wife invites someone into the home and the husband demands that "someone" leave, who wins?

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 14:11:43 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

...

Question about community property law:  If the wife invites someone into the home and the husband demands that "someone" leave, who wins?

Or who gets shot?

[Green Eyed Lady]

I didn't read in the article that the man walked into the room with a gun.  Only that he used one to defend himself.  I can't tell from the article whether he had it with him or if he went and got it when Afternoon Delight became threatening.  And, if the guy woke to find his wife missing, perhaps he grabbed the weapon for fear that something untoward had happened to her and he wanted to be prepared.  The article isn't very detailed.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Oct 22, 2013 14:17:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Oct 22, 2013 14:11:43 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

...

Question about community property law:  If the wife invites someone into the home and the husband demands that "someone" leave, who wins?

Or who gets shot?

I guess we should be glad they ALL didn't have weapons and start firing away at one another like the OK Corral.  The husband at the guy, the wife at the husband and the guy at both of them.

[workpublic]

oh it was in "Pinal" county

she must be some hot tomato! 

[workpublic]

He walked into the bedroom of an invited guest with a gun and woke the man up.

by poking him with a cane.

how was the homeowner supposed to know he was "invited" in?

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 14:38:50 GMT -5 workpublic said:

He walked into the bedroom of an invited guest with a gun and woke the man up.

by poking him with a cane.

how was the homeowner supposed to know he was "invited" in?

While there was no indication that the guest house was equipped for bondage, I guess if the wife was tied up laying next to the guy.

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 14:29:24 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I didn't read in the article that the man walked into the room with a gun.  Only that he used one to defend himself.  I can't tell from the article whether he had it with him or if he went and got it when Afternoon Delight became threatening.  And, if the guy woke to find his wife missing, perhaps he grabbed the weapon for fear that something untoward had happened to her and he wanted to be prepared.  The article isn't very detailed.

True, not a lot of detail in the story. But lets go with what you offer as possibilities. So he walked into a bedroom and found wife laying next to a young man. He woke the guy up, was threatened, went and got a gun, came back, and shot the guy. Or he had the gun all along in case something "untoward" had been done to his wife, discovered wife safely sleeping in bed with something very much "toward" having been done to her, and ended up shooting someone.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Lots of possibilities.  I'm inclined to believe, since the article states it was a guest house, that he had the gun with him.  I can't believe he went all the way back to the main house, got the gun and went all the way back.  I'm more inclined to believe he grabbed the weapon when he went to look for his wife.  He found her, nudged the guy awake, and told him to leave.  The guy, having had his afterglow sleep interrupted, objected to this and decided he could take the "old" man.  Big mistake in judgment.

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 14:58:41 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

... Big mistake in judgment.

But was it criminal behavior?

[Green Eyed Lady]

According to law enforcement, it was.  Guess we'll have to see how it plays out in court and if further charges are filed against the homeowner.  That's a possibility, too.  Sometimes police refer charges to the County/District/States Attorney for their opinion before they file charges.  Some could still be forthcoming.  Just because the homeowner hasn't been charged with anything yet doesn't mean he won't be.

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 14:29:24 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

... And, if the guy woke to find his wife missing, perhaps he grabbed the weapon for fear that something untoward had happened to her ...

Personally, I think he knew damn good and well who his wife was doing.

[Green Eyed Lady]

You could be right.   She didn't exactly try very hard to hide it.

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 15:10:15 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

According to law enforcement, it was.  Guess we'll have to see how it plays out in court and if further charges are filed against the homeowner.  That's a possibility, too.  Sometimes police refer charges to the County/District/States Attorney for their opinion before they file charges.  Some could still be forthcoming.  Just because the homeowner hasn't been charged with anything yet doesn't mean he won't be.

Do cops ever do the filing of charges? Seems like a lawyer thing. Oh well.

We will have to see if it plays out in court. I just think that cops should have hauled off the husband and left the lovers to their fun.

[billisonboard]

Time for some music

[Green Eyed Lady]

I should have worded that differently, but yes, they do.  Most charges, at least where I live, are filed with no discussion whatsoever with the County/District/States Attorney.  It's only on the occasion where the police want advice on provability, etc.  Of course, once the charges come to the desk of the County Attorney, they can dismiss them at will, or rather decline to prosecute.  I don't know how it is in Arizona.

As to leaving them to their fun, apparently, they were finished unless he went to sleep in the middle of it...and that doesn't say much for either party's skills!!

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 15:21:27 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

...

As to leaving them to their fun, apparently, they were finished unless he went to sleep in the middle of it...and that doesn't say much for either party's skills!!

He is 22. He might have been taking a break but I am sure he wasn't done.

[Green Eyed Lady]

LOL!!

[Green Eyed Lady]

By the way?  Sorry I killed you.  I've always been completely unable to resist a button, even when I have no idea what happens when you push it.

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 15:31:24 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

By the way?  Sorry I killed you.  I've always been completely unable to resist a button, even when I have no idea what happens when you push it.

Not a problem. Don't really care.


I hate giving out candy also.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 22, 2013 13:59:30 GMT -5 workpublic said:

The male resident poked Chapman with his cane(not the gun) to wake him up. When Chapman awoke, he allegedly became verbally abusive towards the man

Chapman refused to leave the residence after being told to(like bills said technically he didn't have to?), and (but)the man reportedly felt threatened when Chapman came at him.

like any 62 year old would when being attacked by a 22 year old .

he didn't threaten him with the gun. he defended himself.

Why didn't you highlight the word 'allegedly' as in "allegedly felt threatened when Chapman came at him."

[Tennesseer]

A little more info?


Saddlebrooke homeowner fires at man in guest house

By Jessica Canchola

Updated: 10/20/2013 7:54 am CDT

Pinal County Sheriff's received a 911 call from an elderly gentleman who reported a shooting at his residence in the 38000 block of South Apache Peak Drive, Saddlebrooke.

According to Pinal County's Tim Gaffney, deputies arrived on scene and spoke to the 68-year-old man. The man told deputies he fell asleep in the main house and when he woke up, his wife was not in bed.

He then proceeded to go into their small guest house where he found his wife, age 63, in bed with Stephen Trevor Chapman, 22.

The reporting party has Parkinson's disease and uses a cane and sometimes a walker to get around. The man used his cane to "poke" at Chapman to wake him up and to tell him to get out of his house.

Chapman became verbally abusive towards the man and began to yell profanities. Chapman refused to leave the residence despite being told to.

When the man told Chapman he was going to call the Sheriff for help, Chapman came charging at him in a threatening manner.

The elderly man, who grabbed his gun for protection, fired a "warning shot" at Chapman. The round struck a nearby wall and Chapman received a minor injury.

"This was an unusual call for our deputies in an active senior community," said Sheriff Paul Babeu. "Clearly, this young man should have heeded the warnings of the home owner to leave his residence and to stop sleeping with his wife. The young man is lucky he only got poked with a cane and hit with a stray pellet from the shot gun."

Chapman refused medical treatment for his hand and is booked into the Pinal County Jail for one count of Disorderly Conduct. 

Saddlebrooke homeowner fires at man in guest house

[billisonboard]

So question for the ladies:  Is this a property protection case?

[Green Eyed Lady]

Most definitely not!  It appears to be a case of self-defense but his wife's.......parts.....aren't his property!

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 17:53:08 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Most definitely not!  It appears to be a case of self-defense but his wife's.......parts.....aren't his property!

So if you have a gun pointed towards someone who is doing nothing illegal, they move towards you, you fire, that is self defense?

EDIT: Or do you mean that the younger guy was defending himself?

[Green Eyed Lady]

In your scenario, I would say no, but there was no indication the man was pointing the gun at the time of the attack.  The article implies the attack came after the homeowner said he was going to call the police.  Unfortunately, being stupid isn't a good cause to shoot somebody.  However, that 22 year old will die someday from being stupid.  He's lucky it wasn't today (or whenever the incident occurred).  I can't think that anybody would dispute that if you are in your own home, you tell someone to get out and they physically attack you when you are holding a weapon (that you have every right to possess) (especially if you are 68 years old with Parkinson's), you are, most likely going to get shot.  Now.  Who would be at fault there?  I guess that's how, if I were a judge, I would have to weigh the situation. 

Judge:   Were you in a place you shouldn't be? 

Shot Dude:  Yes.

Judge:  Were you doing something you shouldn't be doing? 

Shot Dude:  Yes.

Judge:  To make things worse, did you get all stupid and refuse to leave when you were told to do so? 

Shot Dude:  Yes.

Judge:  Then...after you refused to leave, and the homeowner said he was going to call the police, did you physically attack him?

Shot Dude:  Yes.

Judge:  You physically attacked a 68 year old man with Parkinson's when he caught you in bed with his wife and asked you to leave?

Shot Dude:  Yes.

Judge:  You are lucky you didn't get killed.  You instigated and escalated this entire situation. You could have just left when he told you to leave.   You are guilty of, at least, Disorderly Conduct.  We could throw Assault in there also. If being stupid was against the law, you'd have been charged with that.  Instead, just pay your fine and quit being an idiot.

Of course, I still don't have any idea what actually went down so I might change my mind if more facts emerge. It could very well be that the guy knew what his wife was doing and lay in wait for the opportunity to shoot the guy in the hand.

[billisonboard]

Oct 22, 2013 18:45:32 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

In your scenario, I would say no, but there was no indication the man was pointing the gun at the time of the attack.  The article implies the attack came after the homeowner said he was going to call the police.  Unfortunately, being stupid isn't a good cause to shoot somebody.  However, that 22 year old will die someday from being stupid.  He's lucky it wasn't today (or whenever the incident occurred).  I can't think that anybody would dispute that if you are in your own home, you tell someone to get out and they physically attack you when you are holding a weapon (that you have every right to possess) (especially if you are 68 years old with Parkinson's), you are, most likely going to get shot.  Now.  Who would be at fault there?  I guess that's how, if I were a judge, I would have to weigh the situation. 

Judge:   Were you in a place you shouldn't be? 

Shot Dude:  Yes.No.

Judge:  Were you doing something you shouldn't be doing? 

Shot Dude:  Yes.No.

Judge:  To make things worse, did you get all stupid and refuse to leave when you were told to do so? 

Shot Dude:  Yes.I had every right to be there.

Judge:  Then...after you refused to leave, and the homeowner said he was going to call the police, did you physically attack him?

Shot Dude:  Yes.I feared he was going to shot me so I attempted to get the gun away from the person threatening me.

Judge:  You physically attacked a 68 year old man with Parkinson's when he caught you in bed with his wife and asked you to leave?

Shot Dude:  Yes.I was defending my life.

Judge:  You are lucky you didn't get killed.  You instigated and escalated this entire situation. You could have just left when he told you to leave.   You are guilty of, at least, Disorderly Conduct.  We could throw Assault in there also. If being stupid was against the law, you'd have been charged with that.  Instead, just pay your fine and quit being an idiot.You broke no law. You may leave.

Of course, I still don't have any idea what actually went down so I might change my mind if more facts emerge. It could very well be that the guy knew what his wife was doing and lay in wait for the opportunity to shoot the guy in the hand.

[Green Eyed Lady]

There is a possibility, minute as it may be, that one of us is even close to being right!

[djAdvocate]

Oct 22, 2013 14:11:43 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Good questions.  My guess is law enforcement knows the answers and that's why they charged the afternoon delight guy with Disorderly.  Had the home owner done anything illegal, I would imagine they would have charged him, too.  Maybe they will later. 

Question about community property law:  If the wife invites someone into the home and the husband demands that "someone" leave, who wins?

i guess it depends on the man's sexual orientation.

[EVT1]

Oct 22, 2013 10:30:05 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 22, 2013 9:52:22 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Thank, God I was worried for a while.

www.azfamily.com/home/68-year-old-man-shoots-wifes-22-year-old-lover-228528051.html

Twenty-two goes ìnto 63 more times than 68 ìnto 63.