would you send your child over to clean up?

[zibazinski]

  Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you.

[NancysSummerSip]

Sept 24, 2013 15:13:52 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Sept 24, 2013 14:56:31 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

How I feel about children misbehaving in public depends on what the parents are doing at the time. If they're oblivious, sitting back enoying themselves while their child runs all over the place, I don't have much patience with that. If they're trying to deal with whatever's going on or sitting there trying to console a howling baby, I'm more tolerant even if the child isn't cooperating. I'm even sympathetic when a parent is dealing with a toddler's meltdown, even if "dealing with it" means ignoring a toddler having a full blown temper tantrum laying in the floor screaming at the grocery store. I don't think I could ignore my toddler's public temper tantrum, but maybe it works for some families, so ok.

I stood on the side of an aisle in the grocery store once and let one of my kids cry and kick the floor.  I apologized to people trying to get though the aisle and remember telling the kid that they needed to scoot over so people could pass.  Eventually, he stopped.  But everyone going past told me "it's ok" when I apologized.  Embarrassing, yes.  But everytime I'd tried to pick up Cabe, he'd kick or slap at me.  I'm pretty sure it was Cabe, now that I'm thinking about it.  He was probably 2.5-3 at the time.  And the temper tantrum was because I was making him pick between the yellow bag of M&Ms and the blue one.   

I've hauled (literally, over my shoulder like a sack of potatoes) both kids out of stores for misbehaving - not at the same time obviously.  I've also bribed them.  And I've yelled at them.  A few weeks ago Cabe took off running in the soda aisles and wouldn't come back.  That was not a good shopping trip. 

You get big kudos for apologizing. A lot of parents would not bother. And somehow, I can actually imagine you hauling both kids out of a store simultaneously, one over each shoulder, while pushing the groceries to the car AND letting them both know exactly what was going to happen to them when you got them home. And then following through on it.

[zibazinski]

[Wisconsin Beth]

God Nancy.  DD is 51 lbs and DS is about 43.  And they're both about 46/47 inches tall.  While I probably could carry both of them simultaneously, they wouldn't be still for me to do it.  They'd be wiggling and trying to get down.  Or giggling because Mommy is so upset. 

[The Captain]

Once again y'all make me realize how truly easy DD was.  Of course it may be a survival thing...someone may have known better than to give me a difficult child I could not handle.

[Wisconsin Beth]

They're a challenge.  It's getting better, sort of.  Different at least.  They're not quite 1.5 years apart so that adds a fun (not) element to it too. 

[NancysSummerSip]

Sept 24, 2013 15:24:58 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

God Nancy.  DD is 51 lbs and DS is about 43.  And they're both about 46/47 inches tall.  While I probably could carry both of them simultaneously, they wouldn't be still for me to do it.  They'd be wiggling and trying to get down.  Or giggling because Mommy is so upset. 

Oh, you would find a way. I'm thinking a shopping cart and some bungee cords. Of course, Child Protection Services might find that a bit , but I think it's effective. Heck, now that I think of it...why don't shopping carts come with bungee cords? Gives the little darlings room to move about a bit, while tethering them to the cart. I can picture it now: all these hyped-up kids, trying to escape the cart and make a beeline for the Fruit Loops, only to boomerang back into the cart. I'm thinking most of them would only try this one time.

[Wisconsin Beth]

<Beth pictures the carts spinning madly all over the store as multiple kids zip off in different directions - like bumper cars, except more extreme!>

[Wisconsin Beth]

We've talked about a leash for DS.  We're going to a water amusement park next month - it's a test for how close to ready Cabe is for WDW. 

[muttleynfelix]

Fortunately, usually when I'm out and about with kids. If one kid is misbehaving, the other is usually being a sweetheart.  

I don't have a whole lot to say about being in a restaurant because my kids are usually pretty good in a restaurant.  DS is more likely to turn around and stare at the people behind us than run around and scream.  But in the grocery store, sometimes I don't have a choice to take my kids out because they are screaming. I live 20 miles from town. I remember when DD was 2 weeks old and we were already in town and DH was home sick as a dog. We got in the store and only needed a half dozen items, but they were crucial items. DD just started screaming.  She was hungry and I was breastfeeding, but stopping and feeding her in the store with a 3 year old really doesn't work. So yeah, I subjected everyone to my screaming DD.  Sorry, it happens. I apologized to those around me and thankfully they weren't YMers and showed a little understanding.  (Plus DS was so sweet because he hadn't touched her up until that point and he was rubbing her back telling her it was ok). With kids having tantrums in the store, it isn't really feasible to just take them out of the store if that is what they want. That is classic giving in to the kid.  Plus if you are trying to get home to get the kids fed and in bed, having to make a second trip into town just does not work.....which is why we always bring goldfish and water into the store for DS.  

Listen I get what you all are saying and all I'm saying is that it isn't cut and dry bad parent/good parent.

[sarcasticgirl]

Children misbehave, I get that.
I have a problem with the parents that let their kids run around restaurants or stores or whatever like the place is a damn playground. Or the kid that yells "Mom" a dozen times while the mom types away on her phone completely ignoring the child. Do that at home, but not in public.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards

[zibazinski]

Don't do it at home, either. It's sad when a child begs for attention and doesn't receive it. Is an electronic distraction really more important than your child? I get that you can't always be there for your child but say something like "just a minute" make it a minute and get the hell off.

[zibazinski]

I saw this at lunch the other day when DD was visiting and we went to lunch. Older mother/daughter combo and mom said nothing to the daughter the entire lunch but worked on her computer. I imagine the girl is supposed to feel honored that she got a free lunch. 

[chiver78]

Sept 24, 2013 15:51:02 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Fortunately, usually when I'm out and about with kids. If one kid is misbehaving, the other is usually being a sweetheart.  

I don't have a whole lot to say about being in a restaurant because my kids are usually pretty good in a restaurant.  DS is more likely to turn around and stare at the people behind us than run around and scream.  But in the grocery store, sometimes I don't have a choice to take my kids out because they are screaming. I live 20 miles from town. I remember when DD was 2 weeks old and we were already in town and DH was home sick as a dog. We got in the store and only needed a half dozen items, but they were crucial items. DD just started screaming.  She was hungry and I was breastfeeding, but stopping and feeding her in the store with a 3 year old really doesn't work. So yeah, I subjected everyone to my screaming DD.  Sorry, it happens. I apologized to those around me and thankfully they weren't YMers and showed a little understanding.  (Plus DS was so sweet because he hadn't touched her up until that point and he was rubbing her back telling her it was ok). With kids having tantrums in the store, it isn't really feasible to just take them out of the store if that is what they want. That is classic giving in to the kid.  Plus if you are trying to get home to get the kids fed and in bed, having to make a second trip into town just does not work.....which is why we always bring goldfish and water into the store for DS.  

Listen I get what you all are saying and all I'm saying is that it isn't cut and dry bad parent/good parent.

I'm pretty sure most of us have said quite clearly that we don't look poorly on parents who acknowledge their kid is having a shit fit, and/or are actively trying to do something about it.

just want to call that out and make it clear to you, since you seem to have missed it.

[Deleted]

A couple months ago I was in the waiting room at an Ear Nose and Throat doctor's office. They have a small room with large windows off the waiting room with some large abacuses (is that the right plural spelling? lol) and a couple of other children's toys. There were several children (not toddlers) in there and they were running around and kind of loud. One man that was waiting went to the receptionist desk twice to complain. The second time he was really testy about it and loudly declared that there was a time and place for everything and that wasn't a playground. I'd already raised my eyebrows because of the kids (they were old enough to know better), I raised them again because the man seemed to be on the verge of having a temper tantrum.

He was right. If I'd had a child in there, I would've made him/her come sit with me because they WERE loud. But even not having a child with me that day, I doubt I would've complained to the staff. He seemed like an uptight kind of person anyway. Maybe he had a headache or something. I don't know what happened next because I got called to the back.

For full disclosure, my daughter and 1yo grandson had been to that office with me about a month prior. We sat right next to the door to the room and my grandson played by himself in there. He thought it was big fun to peek through the window and grin at me and his Mom. He was quiet though. 

I had him in the store with me a couple days ago. He was sitting in the shopping cart and saying "Hiiii" to everybody that walked by. But he'll say it to the same person over. and. over. and. over. It was driving ME nuts. I told a couple of nice ladies "He's not going to stop. It's ok if you stop first". LOL

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 24, 2013 18:08:36 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I saw this at lunch the other day when DD was visiting and we went to lunch. Older mother/daughter combo and mom said nothing to the daughter the entire lunch but worked on her computer. I imagine the girl is supposed to feel honored that she got a free lunch. 

Hey...I need to feed, clothe and house my child...nowhere does it say I have to interact with them, too :-p

[zibazinski]

Argh. 

[Deleted]

Sept 24, 2013 15:13:52 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Sept 24, 2013 14:56:31 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

How I feel about children misbehaving in public depends on what the parents are doing at the time. If they're oblivious, sitting back enoying themselves while their child runs all over the place, I don't have much patience with that. If they're trying to deal with whatever's going on or sitting there trying to console a howling baby, I'm more tolerant even if the child isn't cooperating. I'm even sympathetic when a parent is dealing with a toddler's meltdown, even if "dealing with it" means ignoring a toddler having a full blown temper tantrum laying in the floor screaming at the grocery store. I don't think I could ignore my toddler's public temper tantrum, but maybe it works for some families, so ok.

I stood on the side of an aisle in the grocery store once and let one of my kids cry and kick the floor.  I apologized to people trying to get though the aisle and remember telling the kid that they needed to scoot over so people could pass.  Eventually, he stopped.  But everyone going past told me "it's ok" when I apologized.  Embarrassing, yes.  But everytime I'd tried to pick up Cabe, he'd kick or slap at me.  I'm pretty sure it was Cabe, now that I'm thinking about it.  He was probably 2.5-3 at the time.  And the temper tantrum was because I was making him pick between the yellow bag of M&Ms and the blue one.   

I've hauled (literally, over my shoulder like a sack of potatoes) both kids out of stores for misbehaving - not at the same time obviously.  I've also bribed them.  And I've yelled at them.  A few weeks ago Cabe took off running in the soda aisles and wouldn't come back.  That was not a good shopping trip. 

Beth, I can't recall either of my kids having temper tantrums like that but I know it happens. My grandson recently had his first temper tantrum at home. He was sleepy and frustrated with a toy so he was flinging himself all over the den floor and crying but not really crying. He was being so dramatic it was hilarious. I had to get up and go in another room while my daughter dealt with it so he wouldn't see me laughing. If we'd been in public, I would not have been amused even though he's only 1 1/2yo.

[whoisjohngalt]

Sept 24, 2013 11:12:44 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Lena, I use to tell my children that the danger in lying to me was that one day they might be telling the truth even though it sounds like a lie and they'll need me to believe them and be on their side, but if they've been lying to me in the past I probably won't believe them when they're telling the truth. For many things, how I handled situations depended on whether they were honest. For example, if one of them broke a lamp and admitted they were the one to accidentally break it..... ok, accidents happen. If I know you broke it, and you know you broke it but you lie about it, it's not ok and now you're in trouble for lying. They never did figure out that a lot of times, by the time I asked them a question, I already knew the answer. Sometimes they told the truth, sometimes they still lied if they thought they could get away with it.
else. It just seemed like the right thing to do.

I've been trying to drill into my kids' heads that they won't get in trouble if they tell me the truth.  It worked like a charm on my 5 yr old, so of course I decided that I was the greatest parent in the world.  Enter my 3 yr old - the kid lies and lies and lies.......sigh.... 

I guess I am  not writing that parenting advice book just yet.....

[Deleted]

Lena, I use to grumble that every child should come with a manual tailored specifically for them. Sure would've made my life a lot easier.

[whoisjohngalt]

Sept 24, 2013 14:19:38 GMT -5 nogooddeed said:

Contributing much to family interaction skills? Dunno. Depends on whether or not they're also allowed to behave the same way at their home dinner table.


I grew up eating at a family dinner table almost every night.  No TV allowed.  No other electronic devices.  We were expected to help serve the food and then talk with family members while eating.  We either had to wait to leave the table until everyone was done or ask to be excused.  Sometimes the answer was yes, sometimes no.  Either way, we had to help clear the table and clean the kitchen.  After that, there was no way any of my siblings or myself would expect to be able to leave the table at a restaurant.  It just wasn't part of our family's experience.

I know this is going to come off as snarky, and I don't mean it that way, but....

How did it help you in life or in your relationship with your family?

[zibazinski]

It taught me that I wasn't the center of the world. It taught me manners and behavior expectations. It taught me to talk reasonably intelligently with adults. Parents were practice.

[whoisjohngalt]

Sept 24, 2013 14:25:45 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Sept 24, 2013 14:14:20 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

The problem is that they are not using the devices briefly.  They're trying to text with one hand while eating with the other and ALL of them are doing it.

There was a couple sitting across the aisle from us in one restaurant.  It was apparently a married couple and I don't think that either of them looked up at the person that they were sitting with OR even looked at their food the entire meal.  The only time they even talked was to talk to the waitress to tell them what they wanted to drink and eat.

If a parent wants to give an electronic device to a kid to keep them entertained for a few minutes so that they can finish up their meal, that's one thing...I don't consider it much different than a coloring book and crayons that many restaurants provide.  But IMO there comes a time where children should learn that eating a meal is a social activity and a skill that they should learn.

Well said. And it's a skill that has to be taught early, starting at home. People wonder why kids misbehave in restaurants. I cannot help but wonder if it's because good behavior is not expected/practiced at home at the table. Why would a child do any differently outside the home?
OK, there will be issues. There will be meltdowns. There will be tantrums, food fights and those irrational shrieks of "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I AM NOT EATING THAAAAAAT!!!!" even if you train your kids like you're running the animal sideshow at Ringling Brothers Circus. Threats, bribery, corporal punishment and anything else in the parental arsenal sometimes doesn't work.
I'm thinking you start young, start simple and with really low expectations, and build up from there. As kids, we could not leave the kitchen table until we were excused, finished or not. We had to help clean up. Conversation did not mean shouting, sharing did not mean kicking each other under the table. My dad would have backhanded us into next week if we had done any of that.

See, I disagree.  I allow my kids to do all kinds of things at home that they KNOW not to do when we are out.   They yell and run around and yell some more.  I don't make them sit at the table waiting for everyone else to finish.  Now, at a restaurant - COMPLETELY different story. 

At home - it's their playground.   Everywhere else - they have to be considering of other people.   At 3 and 5 they know and understand the difference. 

[whoisjohngalt]

Sept 24, 2013 19:51:36 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

It taught me that I wasn't the center of the world. It taught me manners and behavior expectations. It taught me to talk reasonably intelligently with adults. Parents were practice.

Well, I also learned all those things, and I don't remember it being at a dinner table

While I appreciate the idea behind family dinners and we do have them, right now, I gotta be honest, I don't enjoy them that much.   However, there are so many other times when my kids and I interact and talk and have opportunities to practice all those things you mentioned.

[chiver78]

Sept 24, 2013 19:52:33 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Sept 24, 2013 14:25:45 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Well said. And it's a skill that has to be taught early, starting at home. People wonder why kids misbehave in restaurants. I cannot help but wonder if it's because good behavior is not expected/practiced at home at the table. Why would a child do any differently outside the home?
OK, there will be issues. There will be meltdowns. There will be tantrums, food fights and those irrational shrieks of "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I AM NOT EATING THAAAAAAT!!!!" even if you train your kids like you're running the animal sideshow at Ringling Brothers Circus. Threats, bribery, corporal punishment and anything else in the parental arsenal sometimes doesn't work.
I'm thinking you start young, start simple and with really low expectations, and build up from there. As kids, we could not leave the kitchen table until we were excused, finished or not. We had to help clean up. Conversation did not mean shouting, sharing did not mean kicking each other under the table. My dad would have backhanded us into next week if we had done any of that.

See, I disagree.  I allow my kids to do all kinds of things at home that they KNOW not to do when we are out.   They yell and run around and yell some more.  I don't make them sit at the table waiting for everyone else to finish.  Now, at a restaurant - COMPLETELY different story. 

At home - it's their playground.   Everywhere else - they have to be considering of other people.   At 3 and 5 they know and understand the difference. 

they know the difference because you have taught them the difference. (and thank you, BTW)

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

See, I disagree. I allow my kids to do all kinds of things at home that they KNOW not to do when we are out. They yell and run around and yell some more. I don't make them sit at the table waiting for everyone else to finish. Now, at a restaurant - COMPLETELY different story.

At home - it's their playground. Everywhere else - they have to be considering of other people. At 3 and 5 they know and understand the difference.

While I appreciate the idea behind family dinners and we do have them, right now, I gotta be honest, I don't enjoy them that much.

Maybe the reason why you don't enjoy them that much is that your children have been brought up to consider their entire home a playground.  I'm not sure I'd enjoy finishing up my dinner if my kids were running around yelling and getting into things.

[Deleted]

I think the value of the family dinner is probably different if you don't homeschool. I mean, it's not like we never sit down to dinner together at home, but I'd just as soon sit down with my husband. And often enough we all eat in our own space/time...

[whoisjohngalt]

Sept 24, 2013 20:13:47 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

See, I disagree. I allow my kids to do all kinds of things at home that they KNOW not to do when we are out. They yell and run around and yell some more. I don't make them sit at the table waiting for everyone else to finish. Now, at a restaurant - COMPLETELY different story.

At home - it's their playground. Everywhere else - they have to be considering of other people. At 3 and 5 they know and understand the difference.

While I appreciate the idea behind family dinners and we do have them, right now, I gotta be honest, I don't enjoy them that much.

Maybe the reason why you don't enjoy them that much is that your children have been brought up to consider their entire home a playground.  I'm not sure I'd enjoy finishing up my dinner if my kids were running around yelling and getting into things.

Oh well, the terrible parent that I am.

No, I don't think little kids should walk around quietly and sit around quietly when they are home.   And it's not their yelling that makes it hard to enjoy my dinner

[whoisjohngalt]

And just to be clear, I don't believe for a second that you all behave the same at home and outside of it. 

[Deleted]

Sept 24, 2013 20:42:23 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

And just to be clear, I don't believe for a second that you all behave the same at home and outside of it. 

I'd get arrested for some of my home behaviours.