It all depends

[kman]

Some k to the g

[frankq]

Feb 18, 2011 14:19:03 GMT -5 @neohguy said:

frankq, socializing the losses of the banks is not capitalism. Trying to support house prices by artificially lowering the interest rates, for savers and borrowers, is not a free market. What you are seeing in this country is state sponsored cronyism, not democracy.

Neo,

I said nothing about banks. I said that as a business owner, I am entitled to pay myself whatever the business can afford. If I take the risks, I get the reward. Period. If you want to tell business owners that others will control their compensation while they take the risk and liability, you will not grow much business, or jobs for that matter. And the last I checked, 95% of the TARP money related to banks was paid back.

[neohguy]

It's not only banks frankq. The world is rapidly becoming dominated tbtf businesses that will relentlessly squeeze start ups out of business. UPS and Fedex can raise their rates at will because they no longer compete with eachother but instead work in collusion. The failure of either one would be catastrophic to the world economy and they would probably get bailed out.
As far as I'm concerned, when a business becomes that powerful then it's time to either break them up or put them on a short leash.
As far as TARP money getting back, I'm sure you know how it was paid back. Providing zero interest loans to favored banks that then poured it into stock markets and commodities is a sign of a sick economy. My money was used to bail them out and I did not receive an interest payment for that risk.

[ihearyou2]

Feb 18, 2011 17:00:41 GMT -5 @neohguy said:

As far as TARP money getting back, I'm sure you know how it was paid back. Providing zero interest loans to favored banks that then poured it into stock markets and commodities is a sign of a sick economy. My money was used to bail them out and I did not receive an interest payment for that risk.

Ha ha, I love it, so this is the new explanation that is given for why TARP was a bad idea, after it all got paid off despite all the quotes of how bad the losses were going to be from the sky is falling crowd. It just shows that when you have an emotional viewpoint, no one will let facts get in the way.

[kman]

. My money was used to bail them out and I did not receive an interest payment for that risk.


You could have purchased the stock and been rewarded.

When you do this and are successful others here will blast you for it.

[frankq]

I"m pretty sure that we got interest on TARP money to the banks neo. You might want to check out Bloomberg on that one for the specifics.

[Deleted]

Q

What he is saying i think, is that because rates were basically nonexistant for savers at that point, he was never given his "fair" interest for the risk

Dont want to put words in anyones mouth....did i get that right?

[frankq]

gd,

If that is the case, I stand corrected. I thought he was talking from the position of the taxpayer.

[comokate]

Feb 18, 2011 16:06:10 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

Does ANYONE on this board like the fact that the banks were bailed out? Does anyone not think that those that caused the massive financial problem should pay for their deeds?

It happened. I dont like it. No one i know does

But...we have choices. Bitch about it...and continue to complain...or figure out a way to better ourselves with the information out there

Some of us chose the latter....and we have not only made back what was lost....but i have almost tripled my net wealth since March 09. Oh...but you say...it was on the backs of our children and grand children....

I learned a long time ago....those with the money make the rules....i am just playing the cards i was dealt....and trying to make the most out of a bad situation

And my children and grand children will have my wealth to help pay back the crap that is now owed. And they hopefully will continue to build what i have started....

But i can sleep well at night knowing i did the best i could to better myself and my family....and if that isnt our sole reason for investing, i dont know what in the world it could be

So...if you don't want to "hear it", why do you come to this thread? Posting opinions isn't "bitching" despite your preference for sound bites over debate. I am fighting (in the real world ) for a better future for my children, and not at the expense of others. Some people have a mentality of "I've got mine, the heck with you"...that's not how I live.
I've almost tripled my initial investment in the physical gold ( nice thing about working in a dental office...) I made in 2001. I may decide to sell, or I may just hang on to it since it's physical gold that got my grandparents out of Hungary before the war.
You say you've almost tripled your money in the stock market.It's relatively easy for people to make claims on a message board, behind an anonymous avatar. I'd ask you to share but it would be fairly easy to comb through the winners after the fact and post only those. It's hard not to notice there are some here who dismiss those they do not agree with, often making personal attacks rather than refute ideas, and very seldom offer anything to validate their own opinions and claims.

[domeasingold]

Then why the chicken little mentality? No one here can predict the future. It would be the trends that everyone uses to form their opinion. You can only live on the faith that your investment was the correct choice for you. Is the only moral choice to buy or sell gold? You have gold, good for you. I will not disparage you for that. I chose the market because at the time I invested it was the only vehicle that made sense to me. Gosh darn it it hasn't failed me yet. BTW, my grandparents used cash, but only well before the bad guys came to power.

[comokate]

Feb 18, 2011 18:20:11 GMT -5 domeasingold said:

Then why the chicken little mentality? No one here can predict the future. It would be the trends that everyone uses to form their opinion. You can only live on the faith that your investment was the correct choice for you. Is the only moral choice to buy or sell gold? You have gold, good for you. I will not disparage you for that. I chose the market because at the time I invested it was the only vehicle that made sense to me. Gosh darn it it hasn't failed me yet. BTW, my grandparents used cash, but only well before the bad guys came to power.

The title of this thread is:
"It all depends"
for many, their sky is falling. Discussing the destruction of wealth and jobs, actual events that are happening in the lives of so many in this country, is not a "chicken little mentality", but that phrase makes a nice sound bite when attempting to marginalize a poster you disagree with, doesn't it? We hear quite a lot from the pro-market group, but maybe you missed my first three posts in this thread ? Maybe the title itself?
Do I believe gold is the only moral choice? Of course not, and I've never stated that in any post that I've ever made. Do I believe that the stock market, as it currently exists, carries enough risk that it is not the best choice for all to participate in? Absolutely. And I am not the only one with that opinion. Do I believe that people should make choices that reflect their professed moral code? You betcha. I believe that with all my mind, heart and soul. I would love to see a thread started with a discussion of investment options for those that want to see their dollars grow in companies that share a similar mindset. I would love to see a thread started regarding the "labor market" their current struggles and options. Everyone here has a choice of how to live, behave, how to invest, and what to believe. Everything posted on this board is an opinion. My choice is to live and invest in ways that do not contribute to the current economic mess.

edited for spelling-

[kman]

What would be your top picks for non contributors? Just asking.

[midwesterner (banned)]

I believe that with all my mind, heart and soul. I would love to see a thread started with a discussion of investment options for those that want to see their dollars grow in companies that share a similar mindset. I would love to see a thread started regarding the "labor market" their current struggles and options. Everyone here has a choice of how to live, behave, how to invest, and what to believe. Everything posted on this board is an opinion. My choice is to live and invest in ways that do not contribute to the current economic mess.

What a great idea!!!! Some companies are bailout takers, corrupt to the bone, and investing in them is like supporting the problems we face. Some do the right things, play fair, and deserve our support. I think this is a great idea.

Someone here want to start a thread on stocks in companies that not only are profitable, but their moral character supports American ideals, and American principles. We could also have companies to avoid investing in, because of off shoring, polluting, paying slave labor wages, supporting illegal labor, etc.

If we are to put our money into the system, well I say do it right. Support the good companies that have good management instead of the mega banks/corporations that are destroying our way of life.

Take a negative, and turn it into a positive. If a company takes a turn for the worse, then they can be called out on their behavior. This also goes beyond investing in stocks, but in support of goods and services they provide. I

Kate, I love this idea, and would support a thread like this fully. We make a choice with our dollars, and if we support the likes of Goldman Sachs, or AIG, then we deserve the system they set up for us, if we choose alternatives to them, local banks, corporations that do more good than harm, support American or Canadian jobs, then it's a win win for us all.

[kman]

So what happens when your local bank that is publicly traded gets bought by GS?

You want clean stock? Invest in private placement stock. Most people do not qualify to own it. You are required to have a substantial net worth to start with and an income of ...forget about it.

I like the idea. I was just looking at a local bank...but truth is, that this is a great bank ..thinly traded and will never make big money for me until a large institution takes notice and buys it. There are thousands of these stocks out there. Bottom line is they will do nothing for you until they are purchased by the very thing you hate.

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 18, 2011 20:59:20 GMT -5 kman said:

So what happens when your local bank that is publicly traded gets bought by GS?

You want clean stock? Invest in private placement stock. Most people do not qualify to own it. You are required to have a substantial net worth to start with and an income of ...forget about it.

I like the idea. I was just looking at a local bank...but truth is, that this is a great bank ..thinly traded and will never make big money for me until a large institution takes notice and buys it. There are thousands of these stocks out there. Bottom line is they will do nothing for you until they are purchased by the very thing you hate.

Forget investing in banks as stockholders. I think that's pointless like you said. Invest in them as you purchase a mortage, car loan, personal loan etc. I'm talking more about buying local, supporting the small guy, then investing in corporations that are not bought up by the big guys. Forget the Dow Jones, it's all crooked there. There are a lot of publicly traded companies that deserve some attention. Once you get to the internationalist level or any major banking institution it's hopeless to find it not in the hands of globalists.

Support the companies that do and give back. Support American jobs, growth at home, don't outsource or use illegal labor. If they change their ways, the company. Your not only investing in your own monetary gain, but your investing in your nations future. Supporting companies that took bailouts, or saying simply that's the way it is, so I'm going to get my share is the very thing that will destroy our nation and the values we cheerish.

I think someone needs to start a thread with good Amerian/Canadian companies that do good and give back, but also profitable. We here can support them, and invest in them. We should also list companies to not support, that do harm. We can do same actions with not just investing but product and service purchasing decisions.

Does anyone here really disagree with this idea? Most of us want to see change, well change happens in small steps and we all are part of that change.

[dumdeedoe]

Don't like anyone who accepts a bailout from the fed? well here is the list::http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

notice not many oil companies received bail out money...

[neohguy]

Feb 18, 2011 17:20:22 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

Q

What he is saying i think, is that because rates were basically nonexistant for savers at that point, he was never given his "fair" interest for the risk

Dont want to put words in anyones mouth....did i get that right?

Thanks gdgyva, that's what I'm trying to say.
Many (not all) of our board members are somewhat extremists when it comes to money even though we think that our individual preferences are the correct way. Our decisions are based on how we perceive the direction of the world and the economy. The future will reveal who, if any, are correct.
My preference for low risk liquidity may seem "stupid" but there are a lot of people like me. If there wasn't then there would be no community banks, credit unions, or low yield bond markets.
Savers may perceive stock and PM enthusiasts as being reckless speculators but we have members that have done well with those also. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Deleted]

I've almost tripled my initial investment in the physical gold ( nice thing about working in a dental office...) I made in 2001. I may decide to sell, or I may just hang on to it since it's physical gold that got my grandparents out of Hungary before the war.
You say you've almost tripled your money in the stock market.It's relatively easy for people to make claims on a message board, behind an anonymous avatar. I'd ask you to share but it would be fairly easy to comb through the winners after the fact and post only those. It's hard not to notice there are some here who dismiss those they do not agree with, often making personal attacks rather than refute ideas, and very seldom offer anything to validate their own opinions and claims.


Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=3417&page=6#ixzz1EPcnIm1e

Kate ...

Without posting my td ameritrade account details, i guess there is no way to PROOVE what i said.

But if you have been paying attention...i have touted three main plays since March 09.

GE
MTW
WFI

I have played them in the monthly games, and own two of the three in the annual contest in the other thread. You dont have to believe me...it is your choice. We all are making decisions based upon what we think is right for us...nothing more

Mid...good luck with that idea. It would surpass the worst performing index available by miles. Why? Because being a good neighbor is different than being a good company

There is an old saying "Friends are friends...and business is business....and never the twain should meet"

[midwesterner (banned)]

Mid...good luck with that idea. It would surpass the worst performing index available by miles. Why? Because being a good neighbor is different than being a good company

There is an old saying "Friends are friends...and business is business....and never the twain should meet"

Well I feel sorry for you. Money, and Greed have clouded your reality and sounds like materialism is more important than the bigger picture. Quite sad, very sad indeed.

[frankq]

Perception is reality Mid. Don't be sad for guys like us, we're doing just fine. So are our families.

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 19, 2011 11:58:02 GMT -5 frankq said:

Perception is reality Mid. Don't be sad for guys like us, we're doing just fine. So are our families.

Exactly, your perception is greed, money and materialism is happiness. Sorry, I doubt someone as bold and on the attack constantly as you has truly found love and happieness, but you can sure try and pretend. Hey maybe a new BMW will make you feel good for a week or two.

Later Q-TIP

[frankq]

Feb 19, 2011 12:09:06 GMT -5 midwesterner (banned) said:

Feb 19, 2011 11:58:02 GMT -5 frankq said:

Perception is reality Mid. Don't be sad for guys like us, we're doing just fine. So are our families.

"Exactly, your perception is greed, money and materialism is happiness. Sorry, I doubt someone as bold and on the attack constantly as you has truly found love and happieness, but you can sure try and pretend. Hey maybe a new BMW will make you feel good for a week or two. "

Mid, are you talking about me or yourself. Pretty presumptuous of you to think you have any knowledge of anyone's personal life out here. But that is your style, to simply attack views counter to your own. You are a modern day witch hunter. A true McCarthyist. You were simply born too late Mid.

I'm not much of an import guy, but I am going to the auto show to check out the new Mustangs for Mrs. Q. Hopefully, something in a convertable with some stones for me to enjoy on occasion but in the end, whatever she wants. The fact that I can do that makes me happy Mid. The fact that I can look at my kids and know that I can provide for their needs and wants makes me happy Mid. To know that my family appreciates my efforts makes me happy, and the knowledge that I have always been able to survive and thrive through turbulent times as well as boom times on my wits, skills and ingenuity makes me happy. I can cut it Mid, That makes me happy.

The only people who consider money to be bad and those who have it as greedy are those who have little or none.

Later MidCarthy

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 19, 2011 12:30:20 GMT -5 frankq said:

Feb 19, 2011 12:09:06 GMT -5 midwesterner (banned) said:

Feb 19, 2011 11:58:02 GMT -5 frankq said:

Perception is reality Mid. Don't be sad for guys like us, we're doing just fine. So are our families.

"Exactly, your perception is greed, money and materialism is happiness. Sorry, I doubt someone as bold and on the attack constantly as you has truly found love and happieness, but you can sure try and pretend. Hey maybe a new BMW will make you feel good for a week or two. "

Mid, are you talking about me or yourself. Pretty presumptuous of you to think you have any knowledge of anyone's personal life out here. But that is your style, to simply attack views counter to your own. You are a modern day witch hunter. A true McCarthyist. You were simply born too late Mid.

I'm not much of an import guy, but I am going to the auto show to check out the new Mustangs for Mrs. Q. Hopefully, something in a convertable with some stones for me to enjoy on occasion but in the end, whatever she wants. The fact that I can do that makes me happy Mid. The fact that I can look at my kids and know that I can provide for their needs and wants makes me happy Mid. To know that my family appreciates my efforts makes me happy, and the knowledge that I have always been able to survive and thrive through turbulent times as well as boom times on my wits, skills and ingenuity makes me happy. I can cut it Mid, That makes me happy.

The only people who consider money to be bad and those who have it as greedy are those who have little or none.

Later MidCarthy

Never said money was bad Q, said your attitude towards making money at all cost is bad. Investing in well known bad companies that do or partake in bad things is wrong.

Going to a party today, enjoying time with my girl friend, and some old friends I don't see too often. Wonderful day out in the midwest, is it not Q?

I assume your position because of all the negativity you shoot out your mouth at other posters. Usually a sign of an unhappy person. Hypothetical question: Does a drunk admit he's a drunk and needs AA, or do they just say they enjoy a 12 pack every night and not a problem?

Glad to see your going out with the wife and enjoying the wonderful day. It should do you some good to take a breather. I'll pray for you Q.

[frankq]

"Never said money was bad Q, said your attitude towards making money at all cost is bad. Investing in well known bad companies that do or partake in bad things is wrong."

Really Mid? What "well known bad" companies have I invested in? See, this is what I mean Mid. Presumptuous to a fault. You see through jaded eyes. You are a child that is afraid of the dark. The only difference is that instead of the Boogy Man hiding in the closet, it's the Illuminati, Bilderbergs, FEMA, whatever, but they're your monsters in the closet just the same. When you post, it's a cry for company so you wont be alone with your scary monsters in your dark room.

"I assume your position because of all the negativity you shoot out your mouth at other posters. Usually a sign of an unhappy person. Hypothetical question: Does a drunk admit he's a drunk and needs AA, or do they just say they enjoy a 12 pack every night and not a problem?"

Hmmm. Lets see... You think FEMA is running Death Camps, Bill Gates, the and pharma companies are trying to kill us, the Illuminati is plotting to cut the population to 600 million, airport screeners are planning us harm, the government and terrorists are actually working together to kill Americans.....And I'm negative? Hypothetical question: Are you on the needle?

As far as shooting off my mouth, last I looked you had almost twice as many posts than me, and as it turns out, very little to say. Have fun at the party with your "girlfriend." Don't forget the air pump.

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 19, 2011 12:58:56 GMT -5 frankq said:

"Never said money was bad Q, said your attitude towards making money at all cost is bad. Investing in well known bad companies that do or partake in bad things is wrong."

Really Mid? What "well known bad" companies have I invested in? See, this is what I mean Mid. Presumptuous to a fault. You see through jaded eyes. You are a child that is afraid of the dark. The only difference is that instead of the Boogy Man hiding in the closet, it's the Illuminati, Bilderbergs, FEMA, whatever, but they're your monsters in the closet just the same. When you post, it's a cry for company so you wont be alone with your scary monsters in your dark room.

"I assume your position because of all the negativity you shoot out your mouth at other posters. Usually a sign of an unhappy person. Hypothetical question: Does a drunk admit he's a drunk and needs AA, or do they just say they enjoy a 12 pack every night and not a problem?"

Hmmm. Lets see... You think FEMA is running Death Camps, Bill Gates, the and pharma companies are trying to kill us, the Illuminati is plotting to cut the population to 600 million, airport screeners are planning us harm, the government and terrorists are actually working together to kill Americans.....And I'm negative? Hypothetical question: Are you on the needle?

As far as shooting off my mouth, last I looked you had almost twice as many posts than me, and as it turns out, very little to say. Have fun at the party with your "girlfriend." Don't forget the air pump.

I feel sorry for you Q-TIP, all in right in front of you but you make the choice not to look or see. That's ok, it's your life and if you want to live in the dark then you can.

Negative? Na, realist and showing real and ongoing things IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA NEWS which you refuse to believe. So be it, I'm not here to change your mind, but you obviously have a problem with our news media too.

Hope you and Mrs. Q had fun at the auto show, it's a nice distraction from reality. Keep distracted, always busy, and that's how you stay ignorant.

Now, I think you've said enough and it's time to give the thread back to Kate, and stop polluting it with all that bottled up angry you have inside realizing your portfolio and retirement accounts our in bankers/money managers hands, Crooked CEO's, PPT, and bailout money used to prop up your retirement. Good luck with that.

PS. Your throwing out the bilderbergers, illuminati and fema camps every time you feel threaten or defeated is more that likely have opposite affect, seeing as the more you talk about it, the more people are going to wonder and research about it. Your pretty good and advertising those organizations by bringing them up about every 5 threads you post. Thanks Q, good to get the word out.

[frankq]

"PS. Your throwing out the bilderbergers, illuminati and fema camps every time you feel threaten or defeated is more that likely have opposite affect, seeing as the more you talk about it, the more people are going to wonder and research about it. Your pretty good and advertising those organizations by bringing them up about every 5 threads you post. Thanks Q, good to get the word out."

Anything I can do to help Mid. Keep a night light on when you go to bed. It used to help my kids to not be scared.

[midwesterner (banned)]

0:40

Keep drinking up there.

[frankq]

[/img]alzheimers-review.blogspot.com

[frankq]

Damn. Just couldn't get the picture I wanted in here. It was a good one too!

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 20, 2011 9:57:38 GMT -5 frankq said:

Damn. Just couldn't get the picture I wanted in here. It was a good one too!

Frank Q, I'm very sorry. I didn't realize you were suffering from alzheimers. It all comes together now. Boy, I feel like a jerk now. I'm sorry friend, that's no joking matter. As of now I realize there is no cure, but there is help out there for treatment. You should talk to your family doctor. Here's a site that might be helpful for you dealing with a lot of helpful information and resource. Stay strong, there is much hope out there. I'm sorry, I know the toll it takes on those involved and family members. Frank, I'm sorry. My deepest sympathies for you and the family.


www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_treatments.asp

Currently, there is no cure for Alzheimer's. But drug and non-drug treatments may help with both cognitive and behavioral symptoms.

Researchers are looking for new treatments to alter the course of the disease and improve the quality of life for people with dementia.