It all depends

[usaone]

The debt burden is over a 70 year period.

We'll be fine.

These threads all end the same way.

[domeasingold]

Mid
From my perspective the current problems you are pointing to were not created by any one generation. These types of things have been going on for eons. I'm just defending what rightfully belongs to me and my family. I don't know what generation you belong to and don't care. Here is a quote for you: I will ride out the market until it's time to pull out.
I think we all learned a valuable lesson over the past 3 years. I don't care how the market and my funds increase. Because in the scheme of things what I have invested doesn't really matter. I want to get as much as I can while I can.
I don't know about you, but I spent much of the last decade caring for elderly parents. They are all gone now. What was passed down to us was unexpected. My job was to retain as much as I can and leave my family in as good or better financial shape as possible. Do my heirs give a shit about that? No. And they may not know it, but there will be something for them. What they do with it, not my problem.

[sangria]

JMA, don't tell the banks about your 10 additional year mortgage idea. They'd swarm all over it.





Big Jimmy wants his vig.

[kman]

I'm thinking about robbing some banksters houses.

[domeasingold]

Wake up man, it's the bankers, they stole our nations future unless we collectively point our fingers at the real problem. It's not me, it's not you, it's them.

God Mid, you would probobly fit right into the 60's. You remind me of Abby Hoffman.
"It's big brother man!,He's the problem!"
Same song and dance.

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 15, 2011 15:20:20 GMT -5 domeasingold said:

Mid
From my perspective the current problems you are pointing to were not created by any one generation. These types of things have been going on for eons. I'm just defending what rightfully belongs to me and my family. I don't know what generation you belong to and don't care. Here is a quote for you: I will ride out the market until it's time to pull out.
I think we all learned a valuable lesson over the past 3 years. I don't care how the market and my funds increase. Because in the scheme of things what I have invested doesn't really matter. I want to get as much as I can while I can.
I don't know about you, but I spent much of the last decade caring for elderly parents. They are all gone now. What was passed down to us was unexpected. My job was to retain as much as I can and leave my family in as good or better financial shape as possible. Do my heirs give a shit about that? No. And they may not know it, but there will be something for them. What they do with it, not my problem.

I never said you didn't deserve what you have worked hard for. In fact if you read much of what I say, I defend that right of private property. I wish many would look deeper into issues, an informed and educated population, cannot be brainwashed or fooled. In a sense we have had since begining of television a media campaign that has gotten much worse over years to mold our minds, and media consolidation by bankers has inforced this. We don't think for ourselves are much as we take credit. Our ideas are packaged for us, and thought to be our own, since they control the direction of things, and the dollar debt notes in unlimited supply.

See what I'm getting at, I know it happened before your time, but with the death of Kenedy things speeded up and our nation took a true downturn, even though the chips were set in place long before, that was a defining moment of our nations direction.

If you work so hard all your life just to pay a tax on a property that is yours by right, yet if tax is not paid it's taken. Is that freedom, is that private property? Sounds like a serfdom tax to me, the right to live on land because the government says so. How is this fair and just. In a sense many argue renting your whole life is easier, because you never pay out directly for repairs or upkeep on property, are more mobel, and don't have to deal with as many hassels of homeownership.

This is just one example of how people refuse to see how they have been swindled, and their belief system replaced with this belief system that it's just the way it is, it's ok to pay rent on a piece of property you have fully paid for.

Is it fair to pay a bank lend 9x times money it has, then collect interest on that money it never had and recollect not only interest, but principle which was not even theirs. Think about it.

You go ahead with your name calling and laughing. It's ok, because I've seen the truth, and it's not funny. While you enjoy and learn how to live in your neo feudalistic society being errected, I'll see it for what it is, a sham.

[domeasingold]

9 what?
So WHO do you believe?
Every individual makes choices or should make choices based on what they believe is right.
You are correct. The media could be the main culprit. But any nitwit with half a brain sees through the crap. It's thrown at you day after day. Do you have an Iphone? Do you really need one. Do you eat TRIX. Do you really want to? Do you watch "MADMEN"?Come on you know you want to.
I want my money and I want GAGA now. Money for nothing.
By GOD you got me ranting now.
Have a nice day!

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 15, 2011 15:42:41 GMT -5 domeasingold said:

9 what?
So WHO do you believe?
Every individual makes choices or should make choices based on what they believe is right.
You are correct. The media could be the main culprit. But any nitwit with half a brain sees through the crap. It's thrown at you day after day. Do you have an Iphone? Do you really need one. Do you eat TRIX. Do you really want to? Do you watch "MADMEN"?Come on you know you want to.
I want my money and I want GAGA now. Money for nothing.
By GOD you got me ranting now.
Have a nice day!

Completely and utterly clueless. Amazing how opinions are formed on subject those that have those opinions never even looked at, or dismiss fast and say that's silly.

Have a good day, and just for the record, you haven't a clue of what I was trying to explain to you, because your opinion has been formed already.

[Deleted]

If you work so hard all your life just to pay a tax on a property that is yours by right, yet if tax is not paid it's taken. Is that freedom, is that private property? Sounds like a serfdom tax to me, the right to live on land because the government says so. How is this fair and just. In a sense many argue renting your whole life is easier, because you never pay out directly for repairs or upkeep on property, are more mobel, and don't have to deal with as many hassels of homeownership.



Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=3417&page=2#ixzz1E3vnqVjH

Mid...not going to go through all the grammatical or spelling errors...but you need to slow down and reread your posts

But this paragraph gets to me. Let me ask a question.

How does a community pay for police, fire, schools and all the other amenities provided by the community, without the collection of tax?

Do you propose a sales tax...or some other remedy for this problem? Or do you want ALL community services disbanded, and then it is the homeowners who have to provide their own services. Call your neighbor if a fire breaks out...and hope help gets there before the building is gone?

Services must be provided for...and paid for......not sure how you propose to do this if you alleviate property taxes.

Please expound on how this would happen.....

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 15, 2011 15:49:47 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

If you work so hard all your life just to pay a tax on a property that is yours by right, yet if tax is not paid it's taken. Is that freedom, is that private property? Sounds like a serfdom tax to me, the right to live on land because the government says so. How is this fair and just. In a sense many argue renting your whole life is easier, because you never pay out directly for repairs or upkeep on property, are more mobel, and don't have to deal with as many hassles of homeownership.



Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=3417&page=2#ixzz1E3vnqVjH

Mid...not going to go through all the grammatical or spelling errors...but you need to slow down and reread your posts

But this paragraph gets to me. Let me ask a question.

How does a community pay for police, fire, schools and all the other amenities provided by the community, without the collection of tax?

Does you propose a sales tax...or some other remedy for this problem? Or do you want ALL community services disbanded, and then it is the homeowners who have to provide their own services. Call your neighbor if a fire breaks out...and hope help gets there before the building is gone?

Services must be provided for...and paid for......not sure how you propose to do this if you alleviate property taxes.

Please expound on how this would happen.....

Sales tax would be more than enough to provide these service and then some. Stop policing the world, and being an empire, and we have more than enough money here. Lower taxes will increase taxes and create jobs. I think income tax and definitely property tax are wrong. If you spend, you get taxed. Called consumption tax. If you don't consume much, and want to live off on your own, nobody bothering you, you should be able to.

Income tax I dislike, but could except if lower, getting rid of all the BS rules and loopholes, and not paid to the IRS but to the USA government and not a branch of a private central bank to collect interest on it's artificial debt notes it created out of thin air and then expects our labors as interest. I have no desire to continue with that form or taxation.

[domeasingold]

Completely and utterly clueless. Amazing how opinions are formed on subject those that have those opinions never even looked at, or dismiss fast and say that's silly.

Have a good day, and just for the record, you haven't a clue of what I was trying to explain to you, because your opinion has been formed already.

[/quote]

Just what was it you were trying to explain?
That everything is one big conspiricy? Kennedy assasinations? Viet Nam? Taxes? Life in the underground?
Live your life that way fool and you are never going to leave the bunker you live in.

[domeasingold]

Do you not pay property tax?

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 15, 2011 14:58:24 GMT -5 domeasingold said:

Another thing Midbrain. But then maybe you will lucky and I'll die soon.

I think those comments are uncalled for. I would not wish you ill will or bad or hard times. Please don't shot the messanger as to why things haven't worked out your way in such times. It's hardbreaking for many, and is saddening. It never had to be, but to pretend it's the small guy is fooling yourself.

Banks did this, bankers are setting stage for world governance, and have been in power as much as you'd like to think we have full control, they have been calling most the shots for some time.

Only until we come together and say no more, will they back off their world agenda and endless wars.

What if they had a war and nobody showed up??

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 15, 2011 16:01:34 GMT -5 domeasingold said:

Do you not pay property tax?

In the form of rent toward landlord, yes. Not directly, but indirectly I do.

[domeasingold]

Look Mid. I don't like the taxes I have to pay or how they are spent for services.
Please layout your plan in a realistic way that would benefit everyone.
Seriously, do you have a better plan?
You think I'm happy with the USA being the world's police force.
Where did all the Haiti money go?
Where is the 1.5 billion per year we give to Egypt/ For that matter what do we get for any of the monies we spend inForeign policy?
I don't have that clue and neither do you or any media. It's the same shit, different day.
Why should I have a clue?
Anarchy! Subversive ideas! That's all you seem to have.

[Deleted]

Mid

You do realize that a sales tax only approach affects the lower earners much more than the higher earners....right?

quoted:
The "value-added tax" has been criticized as the burden of it relies on personal end-consumers of products. Some critics consider it to be a regressive tax, meaning the poor pay more, as a percentage of their income, than the rich. Defenders argue that excising taxation through income is an arbitrary standard, and that the value-added tax is in fact a proportional tax in that people with higher income pay more at the same rate as they consume more.

I dont believe the last part of that statement. Higher earners "save" more....and therefore continue to compound their wealth. People that live paycheck to paycheck pay a much higher proportional amount.

Since my income is fairly high....i like it. But most will not. Why wouldnt you want the wealthier people who live in so called "mcmansions" taxed at a higher rate than a renter?

You are proposing something that only benefits the wealthy....or the elite. Who would have ever thought that would come out of your head?

[domeasingold]

I think those comments are uncalled for. I would not wish you ill will or bad or hard times. Please don't shot the messanger as to why things haven't worked out your way in such times. It's hardbreaking for many, and is saddening. It never had to be, but to pretend it's the small guy is fooling yourself.

Banks did this, bankers are setting stage for world governance, and have been in power as much as you'd like to think we have full control, they have been calling most the shots for some time.

Only until we come together and say no more, will they back off their world agenda and endless wars.

What if they had a war and nobody showed up??[/quote]

OK. I retract the die soon statement. I was only pointing out that the generation of leeches (boomers) are who you think the problem lies with. Sure I have had tougher and sadder times than I am willing to talk about but I am not about "DOOM & GLOOM".
Yes I believe the banks have something to do with the state of being but if you go back through history they always have. i.e., The Rothchilds, Carnegies, Kenedys, etc. The powerful want to rule the world. But they are and should be stopped by the regular guys. You still live in a country where you have the freedom to complain and gripe about the system. It is still the greatest country in the world. I still believe that.
I still believe that is why some of us spent a year in monsoon soaked rice paddys and our brothers today are stationed in deserts on the other side of the world.
Ponder this:What if we were not able to defend ourselves by any means necessary?
Yes I too wish that mandatory attendence was not expected for any war.

[kman]

monsoon soaked rice paddys.....Be glad there is no draft

[domeasingold]

Yep. Once landed our chopper in one . Actually got stuck.
Draft? Pull your collar up boy!

[comokate]

My point in this thread was to hopefully illustrate that a great many people are not seeing light at the end of the tunnel when they find themselves both unemployed and homeless. It's heartbreaking to watch and this cycle has progressed so far I don't know what the answers are at this point.
I speak from the heart, my own experiences, and what I observe in the area I live in as well as the three other states in the past I also called home ( and still have family/friends there). I'm all for people being successful...more power to ya ! I love success ! I'll even do the happy dance for you. But when I see so many people having their lives destroyed, I ask myself why is this happening and how can it be stopped?
Truly I understand everyone having a different perspective on things. Our perspectives are formed by what we know to be correct and true from what we experience in our own lives. What I disagree with is the 90% of us being encouraged to blame and point fingers at each other, when it's the small 10% that are profiting from this chaotic mess and causing all of the problems.
I believe it is unrealistic to make statements comparing present problems to those of the past when claiming that somehow we'll get through all of this just fine...because today isn't much like yesterday at all. I'm old enough to have experienced the change.
Prior to 1980, most of the workforce had an employer paid pension when they retired. I remember my Aunt ( who would be in her late 90's now if still alive) retired from a major name *department store* and received a pension,a simple health care plan, plus social security payments. She certainly wasn't rich, but she was thrifty enough with the modest income to have a roof over her head, food, clothing and occasionally a trip to Florida in the winter.
How many people, even those with degrees, now have a company plan like that? Why is that?
Greed.
The idea that never owning your own home is superior to owning one could only be expressed by someone that never experienced living in a company-owned mining town. The company owns the rental units, grocery stores, and charges slum-lord rental rates while paying slave labor wages.
Did anyone take notice that the bankruptcy laws were quietly being changes just before the economic tidal wave hit? I did, and it tipped me off that something was brewing in the background. Sane people do not expend time/resources or energy without having a motivation. Why would bankruptcy laws be changed when consumption on credit was being encouraged?
Greed.
Not the greed of you or I. Not the greed of anyone on this board. Not the greed of your neighbors. I'm talking about BIG GREED.
Big greed is the greed that told the 10% that instead of being paid 10-20 times what their employees were, and giving their employees a decent life ( and in turn getting their life long loyalty and work ethic), BIG GREED decided 300-500 times the employee's salary was somehow justified. They decided it was ok to off-shore as many jobs as possible to make even more money.They decided that infrastructure, schools, R & D, and renewable energy be damned ! They decided to purchase politicians so that an endless war of words between the two prevailing parties would provide a smokescreen for the continued gutting of the American people.
Less than 10% of our population is responsible for the pain 90% of are feeling/seeing.
Socialism. Communism. Capitalism. Guess what? All of these systems can potentially work. None of them do with if left unregulated/unchecked and open to the constant corrosion/corruption of the "10%".
What changed in our own system was the demise of accountability. And "deregulation" is a part of that. Where did all the social security money go? Left alone, there would have been ample funds. Where does our property tax money go? Income tax? Extra added taxes? How about pension monies? Where did it all go? You think the thieves are going to volunteer the information?
Accountability. That's a golden word and concept. Let's start asking the right people the right questions, because we really are all in this together-

[scaredshirtless]

Wow Kate.

Just... Wow.

You said a ton. (Where's Old & Gray? I know he'd say something!) I wish I had something good to offer or counter with. I don't.

I hadn't ever considered the bankruptcy law change in that light. Thanks for that. Makes one stop and think.

Like you said - nothin' gets done for nothin'. We've learned that lesson haven't we? Thanks for the reminder.

[domeasingold]

Kate
Who are the right people???.
Quick story: During my exit interview with our CEO at the time, he asked me what did I think needed to be changed in our business? My answer....You!
The reason for my exit was that they were closing our plant in Chicago and consolidating to the Mexico plant.
That was in 2004. To date the company I do consulting for has re-captured all that business back to Chicago. Should have made my non-compete longer than two years.

[Deleted]

Kate

I agree with parts...and disagree with others

One of the major problems with pensions and social security is lifespans. They keep increasing. So the old model of someone working till 62 or 65, and then living for 10-12 years after that worked. People are living longer now.....instead of 10-12 years, the model now says 20-25 years and it is getting longer. Corporations were starting to go broke....legacy costs for retirees and insurance for health was killing them.

You call it greed...i call it survival. You cant stay in business under those circumstances....the rules had to change

You cant pay someone for 40-50 years. The numbers just wont work.....young man joins the military...does his 20 and RETIRES at ripe old age of 39-40...and draws a pension for next 45 years....i dont begrudge him one bit....but the rules need to change...and it needs to happen soon

I know the government workers are going to hate it.....

And the age for starting social security needs to go up to 68 minimum...and 70 would be even better

[midwesterner (banned)]

Wonderful and inspiring Kate. That is the problem. When walmarts of the world and corporations and banks make more than some nations GDP, we have problems.

These banking and corporations are boarderless and can set up shop where ever they please. How can you or I compete fairly with the economics of scale they have, or the power and influence over governments. We can have a fair shake at it. Sure some do good, work hard and do make it, but we what we have become is not the American way.

When people have 100 homes, private yachts, and planes. More money than they can spend, but you see people just getting by in horrible working conditions (dangerous at that) without any hope but 2 bucks a day, that's where we as a society have lost our way.

What has become of the world? Banking and corporations are the newly enthroned kings and lords of old, and we their serfs and peasants. More and more this is becoming reality, even though the west has not felt this completely, it's the plan of those left with unchecked power and greed. Domination of the world has always been an age old dream, don't think things have changed in human nature that much since Napoleon and Hitler.

I think the question we must ask ourselves is what sort of society, nation or planet do we the majority want to live in? We don't have to expect this way of life, we do because people feel helpless, or unaware of their own part in this game of life. Like I said before, what if they had a war and nobody showed up?

Peaceful noncooperation is the key. American was a nation beloved worldwide, cherished for it's vision, and people gave everything they had for a chance here. What happened?

I still believe it's a great nation, we can reverse the problems we have, but understanding the problems is key, then and only then can you do what it takes to fix them.

Now this matters little if anyone here is religious or not, but is still wise words and worthy of reading.

According to anthropologist Donald E. Brown, admiration of generosity and disapproval of stinginess are human universals. This means that humans in all cultures and at all times admire the generous and reject the greedy. (Donald E. Brown, Human Universals and Their Implications, 2000.) While greed is universally condemned, it appears it was a problem 2,000 years ago and has continued to be a problem right up to the present, and is often cited as one cause of the current recession.

Jesus on Greed

After warning his listeners about greed, Jesus illustrated his point with a story. A certain rich man had an abundant harvest, so large that his barns could not hold it. He did not consider sharing his good fortune, but rather chose to tear down his old barns and build bigger ones to hold his grain. The man said to himself, I “have plenty of grain laid up for many years. (I will) take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” But God said the man was foolish, because he was fated to die that very night. Jesus commented, “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:15-21)

I think this just points out that greed and love of money may make you materialisticly rich, but very spirtually poor.

[midwesterner (banned)]

Corporations were starting to go broke....legacy costs for retirees and insurance for health was killing them.

Wow, you really boldly said that, unbelievable. Cry me a river for those poor helpless mulitnational corporations unable to make it. I feel so bad for the corporate executives and CEO's, they just will have to deal with 10 summer homes instead 30. Poor guys, I tell yeah.

Corporations going broke? I find it hard to believe you can even suggest such a silly statement. There are ways around that even if it was the case they were "going broke" and still provide company pension plans.

I got it, better yet, let's sucker everyone into a 401k that will give more money back to the corporations so they can become even bigger with the shareholder money to expand, and have them invest their hard earned money into volital stock market in which only real investors with money to spare should be involved, and call it a safe deal and worthy of retirement. Hmmmm, let me guess, a bunch of greedy rich CEO's and bankers came up with that scam and sold it to the whole country.

Pretty soon those baby boomers are going to need all that money in the market, and if it wasn't for the QE and PPT you would hear a giant sucking sound of all that money exiting the market driving share prices down as people need that hard earned money for retirement.

I 110% disagree with you textbook, corporation, fortune 500, classical example of BS being sold to the American people answer.

People want to put a fraction of their money in stocks, then fine, but many don't understand what they are investing in, nor have the education to understand it's not a safe bet.

[decoy409]

Good stuff Kate! Keep it rolling!

[Deleted]

So let me get this right

EVERY company that changed from a pension system for employees, did it because of GREED?


Awash in Legacy Costs
Legacy costs have strangled many American iconic and venerable American industrial firms. The automobile and steel companies are recent victims of this growing scenario: diminishing work force and profits supporting large and growing pension and retiree medical costs. In many instances bankruptcy has been the corporation¡¯s only way out.

The Financial Dictionary defines legacy costs in the private sector as follows:

Ongoing costs to a company that come from funding activities that, by definition, do not increase revenue. Perhaps the most prominent example of legacy costs is the funding of pension plans. Legacy costs often accrue when a company takes on too many responsibilities in times of strong performance or when it takes on an appropriate level of responsibility and then its priorities change.

Legacy costs also include retiree medical, life insurance and other promised benefits.

The recent turmoil in the financial markets has revealed a potentially larger legacy problem. Not only is private industry suffering this stranglehold; legacy costs are also drowning state budgets in red ink. Like private business, the public sector is also saddled with pension, retiree medical and life insurance benefits. Completing the analogy, many of these costs were taken on when state tax revenues (think profits) were high. Politicians avoided confronting public employees and unions and chose the path of least resistance; that is, they capitulated to exorbitant demands. Then they compounded the problem: instead of direct layoffs, states resorted to early retirement pension sweeteners, which depleted pension assets.

The Current Status of Public Pension Plans and Other Benefits


On August 6th, the New York Times reported the massive underfunding of public pensions. See Battle Looms over Huge Cost of Public Pensions. The Times discovered a February Pew Center for States study showing a $1 trillion pension underfunding. (We could have a whole different post as to why it took until August for the Times to report a study published in February.) Worse yet, the Pew study may have been overly optimistic. In other words, their methodology understated the liability and the deficit. In contrast, the National Center for Policy Analysis¡¯ Unfunded Liabilities of State and Government Employee Retirement Benefit Plans found that states were using too high a discount rate to determine employee liabilities. Under the National Center for Policy Analysis deficits are far more alarming:

¡öUnfunded liabilities for health and other benefits are
$558 billion, compared to the reported $537 billion.
¡öThus, total unfunded liabilities for all benefit plans are an
estimated $
¡öUnfunded pension liabilities are approximately $2.5
trillion, compared to the reported amount of $493 billion.
¡ö3.1 trillion ¡ª nearly three times higher than
the plans report. See Reality Beckons (Government Pensions)
While pensions are funded, other benefits like retiree medical, vision and dental have no assets side aside to fund them. Moreover, based on current trends, medical costs are growing exponentially.

The New Battle Ground

Colorado undertook modest changes to its pension plans to lower future pension payments. The state legislature reduced its cost of living adjustment cap from 3.5% to 2%. The result was an immediate lawsuit from public employees:

Earlier this year, in an act of rare political courage, a bipartisan coalition of state legislators passed a pension overhaul bill. Among other things, the bill reduced the raise that people who are already retired get in their pension checks each year.

This sort of thing just isn¡¯t done. States have asked current workers to contribute more, tweaked the formula for future hires or banned them from the pension plan altogether. But this was apparently the first time that state legislators had forced current retirees to share the pain.

Sharing the burden seems to be the obvious solution so we don¡¯t continue to kick the problem into the future. See Battle Looms over Huge Cost of Public Pensions

Employees view their pensions as inviolable contracts, while the state is invoking changes as actuarial necessities.

Who Thinks About the Taxpayers?

Taxpayers are facing unemployment, the risk of losing their jobs and increasing costs of education, medical and energy. Public employees are well paid, largely insulated against layoffs, and receive top of the line current and retiree benefit packages. Barron¡¯s points out that: ¡°[m]ost public employees, if they hang around to retirement, can count on pensions equal to 75% to 90% of their pay in their highest-earning years.¡± The $2 Trillion Hole. Frequently, supervisors and employees collude to inflate final pay with shift and overtime pay in the last year of work. Current and retiree medical benefits require minimum or no contribution.

In contrast, private sector benefit plans pale in generosity to public benefit plans. I worked for a company for 32 years and my pension is a little more than 40% of my last five years of pay. Retiree medical requires a 20% contribution. Our plans had no cost of living adjustments. My company¡¯s plans were probably in the top 5% of benefit plans in America. Most companies offer little more than a basic medical plan and no retiree benefits.

The federal government will soon run out of borrowing capacity. In addition, there are questions of federalism; that is, the states are supposed to be responsible for their own finances. Federal and state legislators and public unions have to be far more realistic than they have been. If they are not, some of our largest states (think New York, New Jersey, California, Illinois) will suffer as did GM and Greece: drowning in legacy costs.


Legacy costs demanded changes. This was not a choice. Thus was live or die scenarios...and if you think greed was the only motivator, you really are not thinking clearly.

Federal and governmnent pensions will be the next to change....they have to. Again...no choices here.

[Deleted]

And btw

You never answered the question on the sales/value added tax

Do you realize this affects the poor much more proportionately than the rich or elite?

Just wondering

[midwesterner (banned)]

Feb 16, 2011 12:01:12 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

And btw

You never answered the question on the sales/value added tax

Do you realize this affects the poor much more proportionately than the rich or elite?

Just wondering

LOL, how so? Poor still pay unfair property taxes and income taxes. They still indirectly pay for the property in rent, which increases prices any way you look at it. Landlord must at bareminium charge whatever he is charged for his real estate rent fees to the government to break even. That's Zero profit, so the government set the price of housing, and rent by upping the value considering you have to pay more or charge more in rent because of property taxes.

If you income wasn't taxed, and your housing wasn't taxed, you would have much more to spend on food, clothes and stuff to get by. Sorry, I totally disagree with you college/corporate educational background. Look, I know people like you, and care not to discuss these matters with the textbook taught accountants and so called financial experts. You have a way of thinking you know it all cause you can repeat what your professor or financial magazines/talking heads force feed you.

I'm done with this conversation, and done auguring with someone that can't even gaze outside the box. Your globalist/corporate views shine very bright, and I can not to continue on with back and forth on this issue, cause we will never see eye to eye.

[Deleted]

ok

you don't have to answer the questions.....

but for others reading this thread.....

a sales tax is regressive....if you are consuming every nickel you make....and saving or investing none.....you are paying a higher percentage of your income to the tax.....even though the rich will buy the Cadillacs and BMW's and they will pay MORE in actual taxes.....they wont pay as much as a percentage of their income because they save or invest a part of every check

Think what you want as far as everything else....this is irrefutable.......and therefore it surprises me that this is your answer to solving the real estate tax problem......