Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 29, 2013 11:56:43 GMT -5
If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! Truer words were never spoken!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 29, 2013 11:58:46 GMT -5
I work in longer bursts and want everything done before I relax. He will do one thing, then sit back on the couch to watch golf. Or play with DD. I would rather get everything done right after work, he wants downtime first.
We're the same way. My therapist told me if I insist on having it all done MY way then get used to doing everything myself. If I want help then I need to suck it up. Which is more important to me?
DH can let dirty dishes sit. I want them done NOW.
I can find a medium ground. I've learned to live with the dishes sitting 2 days instead of one. If I need them RIGHT NOW, I do it myself.
Same with Gwen. She wasn't going to die if DH didn't immeadiely jump up and change a poopy diaper. So I had to learn to let it go and if I asked him to do it, let him do it.
Now that we have more responsibilities I've had to decide more what I can live with. There isn't enough time in the day to do EVERYTHING exactly to my standards and I'll end up divorced if I try to turn DH into a mini-me.
So I decided what my tolerance level was for things I want help with and we planned around that. We're both a lot happier.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 29, 2013 14:10:44 GMT -5
I think that a certain amount of scorekeeping is necessary just so you have a starting point for the discussion, as long as you're smart enough to know that you are overestimating your contribution and underestimating his. But when you are talking about what one's 'fair share' of the housework is, the first thing you have to agree on is what needs to be done, how often, and how well, and what things can be let go when you guys get busy. Having ovaries doesn't give you the right to dictate this stuff.
And you also have to realise that different people have different priorities and a certain amount of meeting in the middle is necessary. One person may find clutter or dirty dishes maddening while the other goes ballistic at the sight of dust bunnies or a ring in the toilet. One person may only care about the living room while the other cares more about the bathrooms. DH spends a lot of time on things I didn't do when I was single, but just because I don't care about these things, it doesn't mean that what he's doing isn't beneficial or real work.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 29, 2013 14:21:43 GMT -5
Just divorce your husband. That's the standard YM advice when there's trouble in a relationship.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 29, 2013 14:26:02 GMT -5
Just divorce your husband. That's the standard YM advice when there's trouble in a relationship. Sad but true!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 29, 2013 14:33:15 GMT -5
Another tip from my therapist was pick my top three priorities and focus the majority of my energy there. For me it was Gwen, my job and breastfeeding. Then have DH pick his and that's what he focuses the majority of his time/energy. Figure out how to work out the rest and/or let it go.
It's really easy to talk about how it's gonna be pre-kid, a lot harder once they are here. My therapist said that having kids is like setting a land mine off in your living room. You know the explosion is going to happen but you still have to deal with the aftermath.
Here's a good example of keeping it in perspective. I was bitching about stuff DH doesn't do and the therapist made me share something he did do. It dawned on me that without asking DH had taken it upon himself to dissassemble my breast pump, wash everything and put my milk into bags and then into the freezer.
That absolutely had to be done every single day. He told me he saw how exhausted I was when I came home and thought it'd be nice if I had one less chore to do.
Yet here I was bitching he wasn't doing the dishes in a less than 24 hour period. Felt like an ass. Definetly humbling.
So I try to take a step back now every time I find myself keeping score.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 14:41:36 GMT -5
I seriously think there should be a sister wife network where moms with grown kids and single childless women can sign up to volunteer a few hours or a night to help out overstressed moms.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 15:36:23 GMT -5
Just divorce your husband. That's the standard YM advice when there's trouble in a relationship. I didn't get a prenup this time. It would cost me a LOT to divorce him.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 29, 2013 16:08:19 GMT -5
Monkey, do you think your working from home/your DH working outside the home plays a part? When I was in law school, I was physically at our apartment probably 15 hours a week more than DH, but spent most of that time studying or doing paid work for my boss. Although DH knew this, and logically understood that I wasn't just sitting around watching TV, in his mind, since I was "home" more than he was, I should be doing more housework than he did. Unfortunately I don't have any good answers, since the division of labor didn't really equalize until we were both working outside the home 40+ hours per week. It certainly could be a part of it. I routinely put in a load of laundry, but have stopped putting it in the dryer because I don't have time to fold stuff during the day. And I have no problem doing this. I think we are pretty good on "us" household duties. It's the kid stuff that is more of a "problem". Examples....he has never once gotten up to wake the baby, get the stuff together, and change her to get ready for day care. He has gotten the bottles ready (labeled and filled with water) maybe once or twice. We pick out her week of clothes on Sunday because I (wait, someone, but it's always me) have to iron in the labels to clothes that don't have them already. DH had never picked out her outfits, so I asked him to yesterday. And he did it without complaining. I just wish he would do more of it proactively. i do want to reiterate that my DH has never had a problem helping when asked (ok, maybe he grumbled once or twice). Seems like I have to either get better and more comfortable at asking or learn to live with someone else's timelines..... (Disclaimer, DH is really good about doing things around our house, so my advice may not have any merit) - What about having a nightly "get the baby ready to go to daycare in the morning" checklist (or maybe in the morning depending on how you do things)? Or a weekly checklist for Sundays to pick out outfits? I'll be honest I don't know what daycare entails as far as getting the kid ready, but I think if you had a list and alternated who had to do it, that might alleviate some stress.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 29, 2013 16:10:12 GMT -5
Just divorce your husband. That's the standard YM advice when there's trouble in a relationship. I didn't get a prenup this time. It would cost me a LOT to divorce him. Well, then you just need to keep molding him into shape!
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jul 29, 2013 16:28:28 GMT -5
I didn't read the whole thread, but monkey, your baby is only 3 months old. I found scorekeeping - for both me and DH - was huge during pregnancy and for the first six months. Then it decreased. We adjusted to the new normal, and now at 14 months have a pretty good system going. Now we maybe only snipe at each other for "scorekeeping" things once a month or so, whereas when she was first born it was all the time. The new normal is weird in some ways - the floor doesn't get mopped every week now and we just live with it. But it's a lot better for DH and I.
Also, for me I was crazy hormonal for the whole first year because I was breastfeeding/pumping full time. That plus the sleep deprivation plus life made for a place where noone felt supported, which is really what scorekeeping is all about. If you can gut out the first year, you will most likely find the situation resolves itself a great deal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 19:42:59 GMT -5
DH just bathed DS with Mr. Bubble because he couldn't find the soap or shampoo..... or he could have just asked me where they were and I could have gotten them! Sigh.....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 19:49:54 GMT -5
I didn't read the whole thread, but monkey, your baby is only 3 months old. I found scorekeeping - for both me and DH - was huge during pregnancy and for the first six months. Then it decreased. We adjusted to the new normal, and now at 14 months have a pretty good system going. Now we maybe only snipe at each other for "scorekeeping" things once a month or so, whereas when she was first born it was all the time. The new normal is weird in some ways - the floor doesn't get mopped every week now and we just live with it. But it's a lot better for DH and I. Also, for me I was crazy hormonal for the whole first year because I was breastfeeding/pumping full time. That plus the sleep deprivation plus life made for a place where noone felt supported, which is really what scorekeeping is all about. If you can gut out the first year, you will most likely find the situation resolves itself a great deal. This is good to know. I don't know that I'm hormonal (stopped trying to Bf around 3 weeks when my milk didn't come in), but I'm certainly stressed. We actually did fine during my pregnancy because I did almost everything like i normally do up until the last week when I was put on bed rest. I just want to make sure that, during this time, I don't do any damage to our relationship. No matter how upset I get, I want to deal with it. My marriage is too important to jeopardize.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 29, 2013 19:54:48 GMT -5
DH just bathed DS with Mr. Bubble because he couldn't find the soap or shampoo..... or he could have just asked me where they were and I could have gotten them! Sigh..... But he's clean and you didn't have to,wash him.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 29, 2013 19:56:29 GMT -5
...:::"While I get your point and am working on myself to be better, there are some situations where I have to disagree. A sink full of dirty dishes, a full (clean) dishwasher, dirty laundry that is starting to overflow from the laundry basket, garbage can that's stinky or full. that being said, I am working to not get annoyed by these things....not doing great at it yet, but certainly making an effort.":::...
I think you still have a ways to go, because you are still looking at the situation and applying YOUR standards and expectations.
If the next meal isn't for several hours, that sink can wait a bit longer. I can just take what I need out of the dishwasher if I don't feel like emptying the whole thing. Laundry... Bill Murray said it best. Men see many subtle levels between clean and dirty. That shirt he had on for 2 hours yesterday totally has another few hours in it if you air it out a bit. Garbage is a cross between a game of chicken and a game of jenga. Hint, there is ALWAYS more room.
You are probably shaking your head at that, but it kind of proves my point. All the situations you describe are relative. They bother YOU. They do not necessarily bother everyone.
...:::"Are you both getting enough sleep? It can make a huge difference.":::...
The importance of this statement cannot be overstated. Sleep deprivation makes for irascible spouses. A good nights rest can work wonders.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 29, 2013 20:06:11 GMT -5
What is "the ctj talk"?
...:::"sometimes I just don't care that something "should" be done. The house doesn't have to be perfect all the time. I just want to sit and digest my food for a moment before I start the dishes.":::...
I agree with this, and it supports exactly what I said earlier about chores growing to fill available time, and paying myself first. I used to make the mistake of trying to get the chores done early so I could relax later. Too many times, there wouldn't BE any time "later". There were still chores to do, but I didn't get to do what I wanted to do. So I started "paying myself first" and giving priority to what I wanted to do. Amazingly, there were still just as many chores, but I was happier because I got to do something for me.
...:::"My DH 'cared" a lot more about a clean house when i was the one doing all the cleaning. Finally, i realized it is HIS house too and i told him if YOU want it clean then YOU clean. Funny how his standards declined after that.":::...
I cannot "like" this comment enough! Its how I uncover what is REALLY important, vs. what is just "important so long as she doesn't have to do any work".
If it "has to" get done, it will. If it didn't get done, it didn't "have to" get done. And if nobody does it, it clearly wasn't that important.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 29, 2013 20:13:25 GMT -5
...:::"Wrongside - my H is like that. He can focus on the minute details of something so remote and pointless and spend all day doing it. One day he spent the whole Saturday figuring out the exact location in our house our wireless router should be so that we had maximum signal in every room. Meanwhile, our grass is dying, there's dog poop in the living room, and the clothes in the washer have been there so long they are growing mold!!":::...
And you were able to share this thanks to minimal signal degradation thanks to an optimally placed router.
...:::"there are times when I say "ok, it's time for kids to go to bed, would you take them" He says "sure" and then continues doing whatever he was doing. It took me awhile to go from WTF ? to realizing that to him it simply didn't mean the same thing as it did to me. 5-10 minutes didn't matter to him, while I was all "OMG they need to be in bed NOW'.":::...
I started doing this when I got tired of the endless requests that were thrown my way. I figured that the faster I fulfilled them, the more that would come. So I started saying "hold on" or "forgetting" about them. Its not the most loving response because no breeds no, but I don't want to create the impression that I'm a servant on call either.
...:::"I not only would be annoyed, he'd be having the poop and the dirty clothes thrown at his head. Such nonsense out of grown adults. Were they pigs when you dated them?":::...
The only nonsense I see is that she had time to chastise him when she should have been washing clothes.
What? Its not that different than your response!
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 29, 2013 20:23:56 GMT -5
Another thing I thought of..because it's on my mind right now... is being taken for granted and being shown appreciation.
At first, saying "Thank you" to your spouse/kids seems forced. I mean, I personally have a hard time thanking someone for doing something they should be doing anyway. After a while it doesn't. And in our house, a little appreciation goes a long way.
My 15 month old says thank you, a lot, actually. It's nice to be told thank you after you've changed her diaper.
Or in my DS's case, he thanked me for spending the money and time on him for little league this year.
Of course not every day is like the above. I just had to remind DS that my only purpose is NOT simply replacing things he ruins.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 29, 2013 20:34:40 GMT -5
Wow, that's pretty passive-agressive, don't you think? When my DH doesn't want to do something, he simply says "no"
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 29, 2013 21:19:51 GMT -5
Ctj=come to Jesus.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jul 29, 2013 21:23:59 GMT -5
DH just bathed DS with Mr. Bubble because he couldn't find the soap or shampoo..... or he could have just asked me where they were and I could have gotten them! Sigh..... But he's clean and you didn't have to,wash him. Or you could just keep the soap and shampoo near the tub in view and within reach. Where else would it be? Sometimes it helps if you just make it easier.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 7:15:07 GMT -5
...:::"While I get your point and am working on myself to be better, there are some situations where I have to disagree. A sink full of dirty dishes, a full (clean) dishwasher, dirty laundry that is starting to overflow from the laundry basket, garbage can that's stinky or full. that being said, I am working to not get annoyed by these things....not doing great at it yet, but certainly making an effort.":::... I think you still have a ways to go, because you are still looking at the situation and applying YOUR standards and expectations. If the next meal isn't for several hours, that sink can wait a bit longer. I can just take what I need out of the dishwasher if I don't feel like emptying the whole thing. Laundry... Bill Murray said it best. Men see many subtle levels between clean and dirty. That shirt he had on for 2 hours yesterday totally has another few hours in it if you air it out a bit. Garbage is a cross between a game of chicken and a game of jenga. Hint, there is ALWAYS more room. You are probably shaking your head at that, but it kind of proves my point. All the situations you describe are relative. They bother YOU. They do not necessarily bother everyone. ...:::"Are you both getting enough sleep? It can make a huge difference.":::... The importance of this statement cannot be overstated. Sleep deprivation makes for irascible spouses. A good nights rest can work wonders.
Nah, my head is only moving from side to side slightly. seriously though, it's good input. I see your point and am trying to differentiate in my mind when things do need to be done v. When I just want them done. It may take me a bit, but I'm going to do my best. Since our talk this weekend, DH has done a few things without me having to ask. (And I have said thank you!). Last night he was talking to DD and said "it's a nice night out, maybe we should grab a beer and go sit on the porch." I responded with "why don't you help me get cleaned up and dinner started and then we can BOTH go out on the porch." (Not said in a snotty manner..,,). So he did. Fifteen minutes later we were sitting on the porch with a glass of wine (we changed our mind while doing dishes!) enjoying the evening together. He got about 10 minutes less of relaxing time, but he also got a wife that didn't secretly want to shoot him while he was out on the porch and I was stuck inside making dinner by myself.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2013 8:07:17 GMT -5
Before the days of dishwashers, there used to be soapy water in the sink and you put your dishes in there all day long. Seriously by the end of the day the dishes were practically clean. Even if you have a dishwasher it alleviates rinsing them off and sometimes even scrubbing at them if something is caked on. Is it just the two of you and a baby? No pets? How dirty can the house really be?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 8:50:58 GMT -5
Before the days of dishwashers, there used to be soapy water in the sink and you put your dishes in there all day long. Seriously by the end of the day the dishes were practically clean. Even if you have a dishwasher it alleviates rinsing them off and sometimes even scrubbing at them if something is caked on. Is it just the two of you and a baby? No pets? How dirty can the house really be? There's the two of us, baby, a cat that pukes a lot and a dog that sheds constantly...we do have a dishwasher, but we use that for dishes and glasses. When I talk about dishes in the sink, I'm talking about stuff used to make dinner (pots, pans, cutting boards, etc). I will soak a dish if needed (one in there right now), but I get sleeved out about leaving a stack of dishes in the sink in water. I don't want to stick my hand in there to drain it. I have seen sinks that you can now do that without having to put your hand in there, but we don't have one. Maybe the next house.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 9:03:21 GMT -5
Whose pets are they?
Buy some paper and plastic for awhile... Use aluminum pans or cook in bulk so you aren't using all the pots every day... Pots also benefit from a ok by the way... Buy a bigger hamper.
These things really aren't worth the energy to stress over.
I like dramas idea to cousin on three I portent things... Dishes aren't likely to be one of them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 9:04:31 GMT -5
We had dinner at my BIL & SIL's on Sunday and BIL said something that sounded just like something DH would say and it set me right off! My nephew is a little over a year and SIL was telling me that he still wakes up for a bottle, when BIL said "we really need to stop that" -- which I heard as SHE needs to stop it, because that is what DH means when he says it. So I said "well, if you want it stopped then YOU should be the one to get up with him until he goes back to sleep" to which he replied "well, I do sometimes". I said "Good! You're going to take it over so the problem should be solved, then!" So I don't know if "we (*cough* you) need to...." it a family phrase or just a guy thing, but I'm pretty sure my BIL thinks I am a giant crank right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 9:20:14 GMT -5
To be fair, I often say we need to do things that I fully intend husband to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 9:22:30 GMT -5
When it comes to sleep deprivation, I prefer to share the wealth!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2013 9:31:02 GMT -5
Yup, animals are a pain. I only had a cat when DS was baby/toddler and no pets at all when both kids were little until the ferrets and they were low maintenance. I'm constantly cleaning up after the cats at this place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 9:37:08 GMT -5
Whose pets are they? Buy some paper and plastic for awhile... Use aluminum pans or cook in bulk so you aren't using all the pots every day... Pots also benefit from a ok by the way... Buy a bigger hamper. These things really aren't worth the energy to stress over. I like dramas idea to cousin on three I portent things... Dishes aren't likely to be one of them. Does it matter whose pets they are We are a family, they're ours regardless of who brought them into the relationship. other good ideas to think about.....
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