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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 9:59:58 GMT -5
It's something that I think we will consider in a few years instead of having another baby. We really want another child, but we cannot afford (in energy, money, or what it could potentially do to our marriage) to have another "from scratch" baby. When DS is five or six, I'd love to have another 2-3 year-old as a permanent part of our family, but I know it's very emotionally and financially draining. I know a woman at work who adopted her daughter from Russia about 10-12 years ago, and she told us her story a few months ago. Lots of flights back and forth, lots of interviews, etc....and before that point, lots of let-downs. I do have my reservations and DH has his as well. So please, share them if you don't mind.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 25, 2013 10:07:17 GMT -5
MJ - I don't have any stories, but I think it is a wonderful and admirable thing you are thinking of doing. The only thing I know is that it actually can be quite expensive as well, with all the lawyers and adoption fees. Good luck to you!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 10:32:35 GMT -5
thanks HoneyBBQ! But I'm definitely not thinking of doing it for kudos. If anything, our reasoning would be sort of selfish, lol. shanendoah, imanangel, @missmargarita - get your booties over here!
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 25, 2013 10:35:29 GMT -5
Expense is one of the main reasons we never seriously considered adopting from a foreign country, that, and the logistics, since it often require multiple trips, some of which can have an unknown duration. (These are among the factors that made it not the right decision for us. For many people, it is the right decision.)
We decided to adopt through the foster care system, which, if you work directly with the state, is very inexpensive, nearly free, in fact. We chose to work through an agency though, because we felt we needed that extra layer of insulation. We are people who feel guilty for not taking home every dog at the shelter. We honestly could not imagine how hard it would be for us to turn down social workers who called us directly. So, we went through the agency, which cost us ~$3000. But it means that the state social workers call the agency, the agency looks at their families and identifies people for whom the child meets criteria (or is close enough) and contacts them. Then, if we said yes or no, it was to our social worker/agency, and for all we knew, they had a ton of other families saying yes. Emotionally, it was a barrier we needed.
The process of becoming licensed foster parents was long (though ours took a little longer than normal since C's mom passed during that time, and we had to deal with all of that), and invasive. I had a couple of threads here that talked about the things we needed to do, including having home inspections, submitting our financials, and going through background checks, both for us and our roommate. There was a lot of hurry up and wait, and the most frustrating parts were the waits, when we couldn't do anything to hurry things along.
Once we were certified, we started getting referrals, had access to the state adoption site (go to adoptuskids.org - it's something like that, petfinder for kids) which listed not only kids who were already legally free and but kids who they expected would become legally free. Our original age range was 0-6. We fell in love with the profile of a girl on that site who was 12, so we expanded our age range to 0-15. We never heard from that girl's social worker.
We said yes to a couple of placements where it was decided we weren't the right match. In one of those, we got to meet the child's social worker and CASA, and they decided against us because we had a male roommate.
We went to an adoption event and got the chance to meet some kids there. There were a couple we decided we wanted to learn more about. And we were signed up for a second adoption event.
Then the request came around noon on a Wednesday, for a same day placement of a 9 year old girl. We read through the documentation and said yes. We were chosen. She arrived in our house at 10:45pm that night. She's been with us ever since, and come November (it's required that the child be in the foster home for at least 6 months before the adoption can go through) we plan to adopt her.
There are three people who all have to visit us once a month, so it can be hard scheduling the social worker/CASA visits, and that's kind of invasive, but it's part of the process. There was the possibility in the early days that DD would not stay with us, which was stressful to us.
She has issues. They are issues we feel comfortable dealing with (this is something you're asked about multiple times during the process- what are you and aren't you willing to deal with), but that doesn't mean it's easy. She has a lot of grief and loss issues, and while her "big event" coping skills are better than any 9 year old should need to have, her every day, small frustration coping skills are nearly non-existent.
She has a full sister who has already been adopted that we meet up with about every 2 weeks. She has a half brother she hasn't seen in two years that the social workers are trying to track down. She writes letters to her mom (who voluntarily gave up her rights) that don't get answered. But her father, who she doesn't seem to miss at all, is making noises about wanting an open adoption.
Some days are really stressful, but then there's a hug out of the blue.
This is what I wanted, and C was willing to go on this journey with me. But I have to say, there are a billion points where you could easily turn away. (In fact, the first time we started the process, back in 2010, we did turn away, and didn't come back until 2012.) There are times when you feel like it really would just be easier to go out and get pregnant yourself. At least then no one would come and make sure you have all your vitamins locked up. But if it's something you really want, it's worth it.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 25, 2013 10:35:38 GMT -5
My niece is in the middle of adopting a 7 yr old girl. They have a 13 yr old 'from scratch' son also.
About 5 years ago they started the process to be foster parents and went through all of the testing, classes, and everything else that went with it. They lived about 40 miles north/east of San Diego and never did get to foster any children.
Then about a year ago they were asked to look into the possibility of a family being broken up because of drugs. This girl is the middle child of 7 with 6 different fathers. They met the daughter, she was tested for any drug residue or such and everyone really liked each other. About 9 months ago the mother and 'father' were stripped of parental rights, which made Sandy eligible for adoption. The final court appearance will be the end of August. She has decided to change her given name to Cassandra Lynn and will be called Cassie. She knows where a couple of siblings are and the last time she saw one brother, father and grandparents was after parental rights were severed. Two brothers have been adopted into one family.
DH and wife adopted a son in the Detroit area during the late 60s and that was before drug testing really got started on new-borns. We love this son very much but he has had a pot problem since jr high.
For me I would really take a good look at all physical testing of the child because of parental drug use.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 25, 2013 10:39:51 GMT -5
Unfortunately, everyone I know who has adopted a child from Russia, the child has some sort of issue, ranging from the low level ADHD to severe autism.
ETA: I don't know whether is just happens to be a fluke common to the Russian kids I know, or if the Russian kids available for adoption have a higher rate of disabilities. I understand that you also run the risk that your biological kids will have mild ADHD or severe autism.
Although the Chinese adopted kids I know seem to be thriving.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 25, 2013 10:45:36 GMT -5
I friend of our adopted his daughter from China a few years ago. It took quite a while for them to be able to bring Gracie to America. He had a blog on it. Took almost a year from when she was "placed" with them to when they could actually go and get her. Since it's a fairly common process they have nearly a whole community set up for when they are in China. Embassy, adoption, hotel, transportation, etc. They met with several other families that were there for adoptions too. We've never asked questions about the cost but from what he has said it's thousands.
Their daughter is a very sweet and lovely child. They are over in China now adopting a son. The son has a cleft lip and will have reconstructive surgery soon after he gets to America.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 25, 2013 10:50:36 GMT -5
I have been told it's in the $20k to $30k range. I could have been told wrong, too.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 25, 2013 10:51:02 GMT -5
Unfortunately, everyone I know who has adopted a child from Russia, the child has some sort of issue, ranging from the low level ADHD to severe autism. Although the Chinese adopted kids I know seem to be thriving. That is my experience too. We went to a party with a couple that has been dealing with issues from their Russian born son for 14 years now. They adopted him as a toddler, and despite throwing all the resources, time and $$ (dad is a physician, mom now stays at home as she could no longer practice and deal with their son's issues) they had, it doesn't sound like they are any closer. i know of 2 other Russian kids that have had difficulty.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 10:57:45 GMT -5
thanks for the stories. If magic existed, I'd get pregnant, and at month 9 I'd pop out a fully mobile 2-year-old boy who says some words and sleeps through the night most of the time. People ask me now if we want another, and every time I think about it, going back to square one seems so impossible right now... I can't imagine starting over from pregnancy in 2-3 years. The first 3 months were like hell to me - I am NOT a baby person whatsoever. In a perfect world I'd love to adopt a 2-3-year-old mixed boy (black/Indian and something else so he'd blend in better with our family) with no drug/biological and minimal emotional problems. That is a dream, I know.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 10:59:33 GMT -5
Unfortunately, everyone I know who has adopted a child from Russia, the child has some sort of issue, ranging from the low level ADHD to severe autism. Although the Chinese adopted kids I know seem to be thriving. That is my experience too. We went to a party with a couple that has been dealing with issues from their Russian born son for 14 years now. They adopted him as a toddler, and despite throwing all the resources, time and $$ (dad is a physician, mom now stays at home as she could no longer practice and deal with their son's issues) they had, it doesn't sound like they are any closer. i know of 2 other Russian kids that have had difficulty. the colleague at work who has a daughter from Russia didn't speak of any issues her daughter has. I've also met the daughter - she is a typical 11-12-year-old girl.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 25, 2013 11:00:16 GMT -5
They're big drinkers in Russia and FAS is a big issue there. A lot of those babies placed in orphanages aren't nurtured and they suffer from Reactive Attachment disorder. I think they have suspended Russian adoptions anyway. Too many kids got here and were beaten to death and then that one lady sent her adopted Russian kid back on a plane... There was at least one that got left in a car on a hot day too.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 25, 2013 11:01:53 GMT -5
A friend of mine from HS adopted a girl from Russia and she is a typical 12 year old girl. She is a phenomenal athlete, appears to be a nice kid, but she's got some severe learning disabilities. I'm not sure what, but she struggles horribly with school.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 25, 2013 11:02:15 GMT -5
Besides adopting from foster care, our agency also handled infant relinquishment, and that was a possibility we were also open to. It is a much more expensive option. Most infant adoption agencies seem to start at around $30k. Our agency actually topped out at $25k and did income adjusted costs, in order to make the process more affordable. They always suggested that people be open to both foster and relinquishment, and part of that was because they tended to have around 30 families on the waiting list for infants at any one time, and about 5-10 infants relinquished to them in a year. The birth parents got to pick the families (we created little "pick me, pick me" books for them) so you could be waiting only a month, or you could be waiting years. The other thing with infant relinquishment is that almost all agencies now are very focuses on open adoption, and when it's a voluntary, the birth parents really can demand quite a bit of access- not just a picture and a letter every six months, but regular visitation, etc. And the agencies tend to be on the side of the birth parents. So if that's what you want to do, you have to be prepared.
It feels like our process took a really long time, partly because we did our first training in 2010 and then stepped back. But honestly, from the time we got serious about it until we had DD in our home was only 16 months. There are a lot of people trying to have kids the old fashioned way who take longer than that, so I can't complain about the timeline. And there were a number of kids that were in our original 0-6 range that we turned down (or were turned down for). As important to being open to older children is being open to sibling groups. Our space was big enough that we were able to be licensed for two kids, and that created opportunities for us as well.
Be prepared to be emotionally drained by some of the experiences. We actually said no to one possible placement not because of anything to do with the kids, but because it was the day after having been turned down for another placement (the one where the SW and CASA came to meet us), and we just weren't in the head space to say yes. Having other people judge your ability to be a parent, from one 60 minute meeting, and being found lacking is frustrating.
And as long as you are a foster parent, your life is not your own. We lost foster dog Howie in April. If we wanted to bring another dog into our house, our homestudy would have to be revised and re-approved- we could lose our foster care license if they didn't like our new dog. I lost my job and I had to report that. I got a new job and I have to refill out all the financial paperwork. The prior foster family (who had been instructed not to have contact with DD) called DD and C cussed the mom out. They reported it to our agency and C had to have a meeting with the SW about it. (His response- the woman was an adult and can hear adult language.) Every month, three different people come into our home and judge our parenting. If we want to go away for a weekend, just the two of us, we have to find someone who has passed a DSHS approved background check to leave DD with. At the moment, we can't take DD out of state.
It's a ton of little, frustrating things. And again, if it's not what you really want, you're not going to be able to put up with it. But then DD smiles, laughs, gives us a hug, or takes our hands, and we know it's worth it.
And one last thing you really have to wrap your mind around- you are going to be angry at all the people who have done things to hurt the child now in your life. You are going to wish for all the world that you could remove those hurts. And then you're going to realize that you are, in fact, dependent on those hurts, because if they hadn't happened, you wouldn't have this child.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 25, 2013 11:13:04 GMT -5
thanks for the stories. If magic existed, I'd get pregnant, and at month 9 I'd pop out a fully mobile 2-year-old boy who says some words and sleeps through the night most of the time. People ask me now if we want another, and every time I think about it, going back to square one seems so impossible right now... I can't imagine starting over from pregnancy in 2-3 years. The first 3 months were like hell to me - I am NOT a baby person whatsoever. In a perfect world I'd love to adopt a 2-3-year-old mixed boy (black/Indian and something else so he'd blend in better with our family) with no drug/biological and minimal emotional problems. That is a dream, I know. About 5 years or so ago, Ethopia was "the" place to adopt from. International adoptions were relatively cheap (20K), and there were plenty of kids that needed homes. You do have to be careful about the agency you choose to work with. Catholic charities has limitations on adoption. If you have one bio kid, then you can only do one domestic adoption. Two bio kids, and you can only do international. Also, if you go through an agency, you may have to pay for medical bills for the birth mom. China (again about 5 years ago), had some wicked requirements for a healthy kid. There were age requirements (including the combined ages could be more than x years, and the age difference couldn't be more than x years), income requirements (as a family of 4, we'd have to earn close to 80. I think they wanted to see 60K for the two adults, and then 10K/income for there remaining members of the household), and you had to be healthy. My ovaries are stupid. We opted for IUIs over adoption. It was cheaper, and frankly, we won't be able to compete with domestic adoptions NOT through the foster system. Given that we already have kids, that also put a limit on what kind of kids would be open to us for adoption through the foster system. I wouldn't mind taking a kid with mild issues that was older. Some of these kids still need to be only children or the youngest. We can't make that situation work in our family, as our oldest is 9 and we have 3 kids. You might consider putting the word out that you may be interested in adopting a child in the future. You never know when a friend of a friend of a coworker who may know someone that is considering adopting a baby once the baby is born.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 25, 2013 11:14:49 GMT -5
Those of you who adopt or even think about it... kudos to you. I cannot fathom how much work, energy, stress, money, heartbreak, etc. it must take.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 25, 2013 11:21:41 GMT -5
Every country has their own rules for foreign adoptions. C and I couldn't have adopted from China because we are obese, and China decided they would not let obese foreigners adopt. Some countries will only adopt to married couples. Others have age limits, both generic (no one over 45), and specific must be between x and y years older than the child. Some countries the US has put hold on adoptions from because there are concerns that the children were not actually put up for adoption by the birth parents, but instead think they are being sent to a boarding school, or to live with a family in a city to attend school. In other cases, there appears to be an infant black market.
My step sister did adopt a little girl from China. (She also blogged about the experience.) Jai Li joined the family in 2006. She was about 2, and was officially special needs, but I think it was something like a surgery that had been done on her legs at birth. She is a happy, healthy young girl.
It is harder for older kids to get adopted. And race can play a small part in that (people want kids who look like them), but it actually has a lot more to do with the legal issues. Infants who don't have severe medical issues get placed almost immediately- no matter the race. Even when it's the state stepping in, it is actually easier to remove parental rights when the child is an infant, and again, there are a ton of people who are open to fostering to adopt an infant because the kid won't have any memory of their birth family, so even if it's a longer process, it's emotionally less taxing on the child. With older kids, kids who know and love their parents (DD has a note from her birth mom saying she would go to all of her classes and get clean and come back and get DD) have a much harder time letting go. When we talk with DD about adoption and permanency, she will sometimes return to that note from her birth mom. There's a lot of grief and anger there, and still some hope. (Birth mom actually voluntarily gave up her rights to DD and didn't even ask for an open adoption, but DD doesn't know that level of detail and doesn't need to know it for now.) Removing parental rights can take a long time, and it can be extended. Parents can show up to that final court hearing clean, and even if all previous court hearings had them absent or high, suddenly, they get an extension. Birth father's parental rights were supposed to be removed in May. They'd spent 2 years trying to track him down and nothing. Then in April he contacted them and made noises about open adoption. The hearing was put off until June. Hearing did not happen in June (I don't know exactly why- we've had a change in social worker), and now birth dad's rights won't be removed until next week. Luckily, everyone familiar with the case says that the judge won't agree to anything like visitation, that the most we'll have to do open adoption wise is send a letter and picture once or twice a year.
It's a process. And it takes longer with older kids, making people less willing to take them in. There are a number of homes who won't consider a child who is not already legally free, because of the fear that the child could be sent back to the birth parents.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 25, 2013 11:24:56 GMT -5
Well, that mess in South Caroline (?) that the Supreme Court just decided on is probably not going to help calm that fear.
edited to add - I realize that the rules to keep kids with tribal members were/are necessary but I suspect a lot of people only heard - "baby ripped from adoptive parents" and now "ripped from biodad"
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 25, 2013 11:27:33 GMT -5
NY now has regulations that if a kid is in foster care for 15 of the past 22 months, and the parents have not made significant steps to get their kids back (have a plan, follow the plan, staying clean) their rights get terminated.
Most parents now agree to the termination in exchange for an open adoption.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 25, 2013 11:27:39 GMT -5
Oh, and Jen- we totally adopted because my desire to be pregnant was < 0. Also, I wanted a child that was verbal, mobile, potty trained. I love puppies, not babies, and I'm not even willing to take a dog under 9 months old ever again. My reasons for adopting are purely selfish. And I also feel like I hit the jackpot- from day 1, DD slept through the night. There are no dirty diapers to be changed. No 2am feedings. She can feed herself, dress herself. She can tell me when something hurts. She's already in school so we don't have day care costs. I mean really, jackpot.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 25, 2013 11:29:21 GMT -5
Russia has a ban on us adopting their kids right now.
Shanendoah that's interesting about China. One of my coworkers adopted a little girl back in probably late 2010 or early 2011. The parents and their bio son are definitely overweight. I'm sure the kid and her husband would be considered obese. Maybe it wasn't in place when they started the process. It took them 5-6 years.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 25, 2013 11:31:47 GMT -5
Wisconsin Beth - That case breaks my heart. Breaks it. I don't agree with the Supreme Court ruling on it, though it's narrow enough, that I don't hate it. I do absolutely hate the SC court decision though. While what happened to the adoptive parents was terrible for them, the court needed to be looking at what was best for that child today, not two years ago. And like it or not, there are huge differences in a 2 year old being removed from a home and a 4 year old being removed from a home- especially when sibling relationships have also been formed. I absolutely have to hope, for that child's sake, that they can come to some open adoption agreement that allows her to maintain her relationship with her father, step-mother and siblings.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 25, 2013 11:35:36 GMT -5
wvugurl26 - It was a fairly new regulation in 2010 when I was looking at costs and restrictions, so your coworker probably was grandfathered in, in that sense. China started really cracking down on foreign adoptions at about that time, because they finally started to realize that they were already going to have a girl shortage due to the one child law, and now, a lot of the girls they did have were being adopted over seas
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 25, 2013 11:41:32 GMT -5
I know I hadn't been here too long when she adopted the girl and I started in June 2010. Hers might have been completed in 2010.
It seems like a lot of foreign countries have cracked down on adoptions to the US.
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ontrack
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Post by ontrack on Jul 25, 2013 11:47:21 GMT -5
I know this story is a little dated, but my parents adopted a baby from Korea. They were originally looking at Columbia, but then that avenue was closed due to an incident at the Embassy there. My parents were only interested in an international adoption because they couldn't handle a baby Jessica etc situation where the birth parents come back years later and demand the child back. They went through an agency called Love the Children. At that time (1980-81), they didn't have to get on a plane and go to Korea, he came with a foster money on a charter plane with other kids/foster mothers. They thought they'd have him by Christmas, but it got delayed til April. They didn't take the (fake) Christmas tree down until he was home. He was the only boy on the whole charter plane and was super chubby since his foster mom thought all Americans liked/expected chubby babies.
My parents kept all the info they got about his birth mother in case he was ever interested, but so far he hasn't shown any interest. I think the whole process cost 10-15k back then. He's 18 mo older than me, and the biggest issues he's had was severe allergies and skin sensitivities.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 12:00:23 GMT -5
Jen, I just saw this. I am going to PM you on FB instead of posting here. Is that ok?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 12:16:17 GMT -5
Jen, I just saw this. I am going to PM you on FB instead of posting here. Is that ok? yes, that's fine.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 25, 2013 12:16:30 GMT -5
I know two couples that tried to go the foster care route only to have their hearts and the hearts of the kids broken due to the selfish sperm and egg donors.
Foreign adoptions are generally in the $20k-$30k range. I know a few couples who have successfully adopted from latin America.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 25, 2013 13:15:22 GMT -5
Over a decade ago DH and I looked into foreign adoptions. We were told they run in the 20-30K range (which did not include travel) and did not have that kind of money at the time.
We then looked in adoption from a local agency - the only way the agency would work with you is if you agreed to an open adoption and agreed to allow the birth mother regular access to the child. After hearing from one of the references this group gave us (we checked several) about the birth mother popping in and out of their kids life and causing disruption every time we decided it was not for us. Since they indicated to us they were going to petition to have visitation suspended I would guess they are no longer used as a reference. To go this route we would have to have home inspections, certifications, etc and the process would run 10-15K.
I have a friend who did private adoption four times. Why four? The first one worked out fine. The next two they paid living and medical expenses for the moms who decided at the last minute to keep the baby. The fourth time the mother already had four kids and knew she could not provide for #5 once her divorce was finalized (yes, the baby was not her husbands). My friends husband was a corporate lawyer for a VERY large company so they had the financial resources, it was just heartbreaking to watch the emotional toll it took on them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 13:18:29 GMT -5
They're big drinkers in Russia and FAS is a big issue there. A lot of those babies placed in orphanages aren't nurtured and they suffer from Reactive Attachment disorder. I think they have suspended Russian adoptions anyway. Too many kids got here and were beaten to death and then that one lady sent her adopted Russian kid back on a plane... Children in Russian orphanages are at increased risk for malnutrition, developmental delay, poor growth, medical illnesses and emotional disorders. Although some orphanages have more resources than others, none could be considered a satisfactory environment for a child of any age. Thus, with each passing month and year, children in these orphanages tend to lag further and further behind in their growth and development.
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