nittanycheme
Established Member
Joined: Aug 8, 2011 14:26:36 GMT -5
Posts: 490
|
Post by nittanycheme on Jul 29, 2013 21:39:40 GMT -5
I had two different friends that adopted from foreign countries. One adopted 2 from Russia - a brother and a sister. They both had issues; I think they had that attachment disorder. I know that they used to threaten to kill my friend's DH while he slept. They were adopted at about 2 and 4, I think. They still have issues, and they are in their teens. Although I don't think they threaten to kill him anymore. They did sleep with their door locked for a long time. My other friend adopted from India, and her daughter is doing great. I think she had some minor health issues, but nothing major (and I think it was more physical, not mental). She was adopted at about 1 year old. My friend was actually on that TLC show Adoption Stories for her daughter from India. Both of them spent pretty good $$, and were required to fly to their respective 2x, once early in the process, and once to actually get the kids. I think they had to stay for a period of time also.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2013 6:49:04 GMT -5
I had two different friends that adopted from foreign countries. One adopted 2 from Russia - a brother and a sister. They both had issues; I think they had that attachment disorder. I know that they used to threaten to kill my friend's DH while he slept. They were adopted at about 2 and 4, I think. They still have issues, and they are in their teens. Although I don't think they threaten to kill him anymore. They did sleep with their door locked for a long time. My other friend adopted from India, and her daughter is doing great. I think she had some minor health issues, but nothing major (and I think it was more physical, not mental). She was adopted at about 1 year old. My friend was actually on that TLC show Adoption Stories for her daughter from India. Both of them spent pretty good $$, and were required to fly to their respective 2x, once early in the process, and once to actually get the kids. I think they had to stay for a period of time also. Holy hell...I don't know what I would do with the two kids that were threatening to kill dh in his sleep. I had fertility issues and didn't know if I could conceive naturally (I did). I always wanted kids so if I couldn't become pregnant then I would have wanted to adopt. My biggest fear wasn't having a child with issues (I have a special needs child now)...my fear was that if I did have a child with issues that I would feel differently if they weren't genetically linked to me. I can't imagine giving either of my two kids away no matter waht they did. Would I feel the same way if I didn't get tehm until they were older and I didn't carry them or have a genetic link?
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2013 6:58:25 GMT -5
A friend of mine adopted a girl from Bulgaria about 20 yrs ago. The girl always had mental problems, but now they are becoming more and more. My friend did it as a single mom, her family doesn't support her, so she is literally doing it all by herself. The girl is not violent at all, but my friend is getting older so I don't know what will happen. Sooner or later this girl will have to go to some kind of home. Just heartbreaking all around
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2013 7:00:35 GMT -5
And wanted to say - I don't know how anyone can say that adoption is the same as having a child. Then again, I am probably thinking of it terms of old days when kids weren't conceived in a tube or you couldn't pick a daddy from a book, etc
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,910
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2013 7:11:37 GMT -5
Trouble is that adoption used to be from a healthy young girl who believed some guys story that he loved her so she had sex with him and became pregnant. Back in the olden days this was not a thing to be applauded so the girl went away to visit "relatives." The baby was then adopted out. The only women who could keep their babies had family support and someone to force baby daddy to marry them. Now with the idea that its a smart thing to do and the govt will even support you doing it and penalize you if you marry and support yourself and your children, babies are hard to come by and adoptive parents have to jump through hoops and get shafted by potential moms and their lawyers. Adopting from another country helps alleviate that but comes with its own set of issues. The countries don't want these kids but know they have a viable commodity. So they stick it to the people that want a baby or toddler. A healthy baby wouldn't be put in an institution so you get what society deemed unacceptable for them. China is starting to crack down on selling their baby girls but they are still available. Adopting from Russia has been risky for years. But it isn't just Russia raising sociopath children. One of our old school board members adopted three older kids from the US and had to return one years later because he threatened them all. She was vilified by the newspapers but no one would listen to her story of spending countless dollars trying to get him help and how she or her husband slept in the hall to protect the other two children from that kid. It actually cost her her seat on the school board when it all came out because she returned a child to the state again. Not a peep about how much she tried to help him or protect the rest of the family from him.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2013 7:25:01 GMT -5
No, I don't mean in terms of love for the child. I didn't love my kids until way after they were born. (yeah, I am one of "those" mothers).
I think the two processes itself are completely different, emotionally. But again, I guess I am picturing it in the days before you could pick things out of a book or do it in a lab, etc.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 15,000
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jul 30, 2013 7:59:48 GMT -5
No, I don't mean in terms of love for the child. I didn't love my kids until way after they were born. (yeah, I am one of "those" mothers). I think the two processes itself are completely different, emotionally. But again, I guess I am picturing it in the days before you could pick things out of a book or do it in a lab, etc. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you dont pick a "daddy" out of a book, and I really don't get what you're trying to imply about children/families conceived with fertility treatments?
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2013 8:16:38 GMT -5
OK, let's not get all hot and bothered, I am not implying anything, I am simply saying that emotionally I would think it's quite different to conceive a child vs to adopt one. I've never adopted one, so my opinion is all theory.
And yes, you can pick a daddy out of a book, at least that's how my lesbian friend and her bimbo gf did it. May be not a book, literally, but they looked at the list of sperm donors and picked one.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,910
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2013 8:27:54 GMT -5
I think id be happier if I didn't conceive and have to go thru all the hassle. Picking up a baby after nine months seems like bliss to me! Puking my lungs out and feeling generally like crap and let's not mention the beached whale look, always attractive. Having to roll onto my hands and knees to get up from the sofa, always a delightful time.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 15,000
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jul 30, 2013 9:41:08 GMT -5
OK, let's not get all hot and bothered, I am not implying anything, I am simply saying that emotionally I would think it's quite different to conceive a child vs to adopt one. I've never adopted one, so my opinion is all theory. And yes, you can pick a daddy out of a book, at least that's how my lesbian friend and her bimbo gf did it. May be not a book, literally, but they looked at the list of sperm donors and picked one. Yes, you pick sperm and egg donors from a book but that doesnt make the donor a father/mother. When we were pregnant with our 2nd people would ask us if it was the same father... Um yeah, its still Dh. And then we would answer it was the same donor. We have a good sense of humor about that stuff because of our situation, but for couples who find out they can't conceive questions/statements like that can be heartbreaking. I agree the emotions of the process of adoption and pregnancy are different, I just didn't understand why you were tying those to fertility treatments since to me they are unrelated.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 30, 2013 9:45:43 GMT -5
OK, let's not get all hot and bothered, I am not implying anything, I am simply saying that emotionally I would think it's quite different to conceive a child vs to adopt one. I've never adopted one, so my opinion is all theory. And yes, you can pick a daddy out of a book, at least that's how my lesbian friend and her bimbo gf did it. May be not a book, literally, but they looked at the list of sperm donors and picked one. I think the big thing is that it can be an emotional rollercoaster no matter what way you become a parent. Adoption vs trying to conceive there are ups and downs, the potential for heartbreak or things may go perfectly. Like Shannen said, it is socially acceptable to talk about adoptions going wrong, but talk about a miscarriage or stillbirth and that is socially taboo.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2013 9:54:30 GMT -5
OK, let's not get all hot and bothered, I am not implying anything, I am simply saying that emotionally I would think it's quite different to conceive a child vs to adopt one. I've never adopted one, so my opinion is all theory. And yes, you can pick a daddy out of a book, at least that's how my lesbian friend and her bimbo gf did it. May be not a book, literally, but they looked at the list of sperm donors and picked one. Yes, you pick sperm and egg donors from a book but that doesnt make the donor a father/mother. When we were pregnant with our 2nd people would ask us if it was the same father... Um yeah, its still Dh. And then we would answer it was the same donor. We have a good sense of humor about that stuff because of our situation, but for couples who find out they can't conceive questions/statements like that can be heartbreaking. I agree the emotions of the process of adoption and pregnancy are different, I just didn't understand why you were tying those to fertility treatments since to me they are unrelated. I can't understand or feel the pain of not being able to conceive and don't pretend to. I do try super super hard not to ask stupid questions or make stupid comments and in general I try to stay away from anything personal like conception, etc On a semi-related note - I was in a grocery store with my boys and a lady asked me if they all have the same father since they all look so different. I told her "no, what fun would that be" I am pretty sure she believed me My lesbian friend and her bimbo did use the same sperm donor for their two kids, so they both have the same father and different mothers. Now I am curious and will have to ask her if she gets those type of questions. We've been friends for many years and I am nosy (and not always tactful) so I did ask her, but they are the only people that I know who did anything like that, so I was curious about the whole process.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2013 9:58:08 GMT -5
OK, let's not get all hot and bothered, I am not implying anything, I am simply saying that emotionally I would think it's quite different to conceive a child vs to adopt one. I've never adopted one, so my opinion is all theory. And yes, you can pick a daddy out of a book, at least that's how my lesbian friend and her bimbo gf did it. May be not a book, literally, but they looked at the list of sperm donors and picked one. I think the big thing is that it can be an emotional rollercoaster no matter what way you become a parent. Adoption vs trying to conceive there are ups and downs, the potential for heartbreak or things may go perfectly. Like Shannen said, it is socially acceptable to talk about adoptions going wrong, but talk about a miscarriage or stillbirth and that is socially taboo. Really ? I hope that changes, then bc I think it's terrible. People who experienced that already going through hell, you would think that we, as a society, want to make them as comfortable as we could. I really REALLY want to be a foster parent, but my DH is not letting me. He thinks I've seen too many Lifetime movies and have this rosy idea about it. We'll have to revisit the subject when my boys get older
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 30, 2013 10:20:04 GMT -5
Well, therein lies the rub. How much do the parent's want to talk about it? How do you make them comfortable when they are grieving the life that didn't make it? My brother and SIL didn't want anyone there when their baby boy was stillborn and then afterwards they decided they did want her parents and my dad to come to the hospital (SIL had to have surgery afterwards because part of the placenta was retained). When my mom emailed me to tell me it was a boy, I cried. I was in the middle of work and I had to leave. But at the same time, I didn't want to talk about it with my coworkers. All those hopes and dreams we all had for Baby Christopher - thinking of him and DD playing together and they just were gone like that. My brother and SIL were adding onto their house because of the baby. So, now they are going to have a bigger house and one less kid (they already have 2 girls). To add insult to injury, even 2 weeks after she delivered the baby, my SIL still had to alter her diet because the foods that made her sick while pregnant still made her sick.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 15,000
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jul 30, 2013 10:24:47 GMT -5
Yes, you pick sperm and egg donors from a book but that doesnt make the donor a father/mother. When we were pregnant with our 2nd people would ask us if it was the same father... Um yeah, its still Dh. And then we would answer it was the same donor. We have a good sense of humor about that stuff because of our situation, but for couples who find out they can't conceive questions/statements like that can be heartbreaking. I agree the emotions of the process of adoption and pregnancy are different, I just didn't understand why you were tying those to fertility treatments since to me they are unrelated. I can't understand or feel the pain of not being able to conceive and don't pretend to. I do try super super hard not to ask stupid questions or make stupid comments and in general I try to stay away from anything personal like conception, etc On a semi-related note - I was in a grocery store with my boys and a lady asked me if they all have the same father since they all look so different. I told her "no, what fun would that be" I am pretty sure she believed me My lesbian friend and her bimbo did use the same sperm donor for their two kids, so they both have the same father and different mothers. Now I am curious and will have to ask her if she gets those type of questions. We've been friends for many years and I am nosy (and not always tactful) so I did ask her, but they are the only people that I know who did anything like that, so I was curious about the whole process. I think its harder for straight couples. I mean as lesbians, or Dh and I, conceiving a baby together isn't an option, so if you want a family you just do what you gotta do. For straight couples there is frequently grief because you've lost something, guilt like you are being punished, anger at those who conceive easily (and more guilt for feeling like that). So to go through that and then have it implied that they aren't a father or mother is very tough. That said though, I don't believe you can go through life and never ask someone,a question. Asking about spouses, kids, families, etc. Is how you get to know each other. I try to see if people are open to questions, but sometimes everyone is going to hit a nerve.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 30, 2013 10:31:35 GMT -5
Well, there's a difference between not wanting to share information and not feeling that you CAN share information. And let's be honest, people suck at trying to comfort grieving parents on a good day.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Jul 30, 2013 10:40:16 GMT -5
On some level, I feel like people are deliberately misinterpreting what I said, and on another, I think, maybe I did not explain myself well enough, so let's see if I can be clearer Let's start with the basic facts of where I am coming from. C and I are adopting. This was our first choice for starting a family, meaning that we have no idea if we have fertility issues or not. We never tried to conceive nor were we tested. This does NOT make us any better or worse than any other family who wants to bring a child into their lives. The matter is too deeply personal for each individual for there to be a generic "right way". There is only what is right for you as a person and as a family.
So, you decide you want to bring a(nother) child into your family. You talk with your partner (if you have one) about timing. In the case of conception, how long do we think it will take, should we start trying now, etc. In terms of adoption, how long do we think it will take, should we start the process now, etc. We all talk about child care options once the kids arrives. You talk about finances - can we afford the medical bills and adding another person to our family? can we afford the adoption fees and adding another person to our family You start the process. And here, I definitely think the process of trying to conceive is probably a lot more fun than the process of attending adoption classes. There are a variety of stumbling blocks that can happen along the way, all which take an emotional toll. There is paperwork galore for both- medical and insurance forms for conception; medical, insurance, financial, references for adoption There are appointments - OB and ultrasound vs home study and home inspection People who conceive get to choose whether or not to read parenting books and attend parenting classes, while those who adopt often have a requirement they must meet In both cases, there's a lot of waiting, emotions run high, there are countless risks and rewards. Regardless of how much time the process takes on the front end, the child comes when it is good and ready to come. Maybe you were able to schedule a C section and it all happened right on time, or maybe you got to do a slow transition from foster home to adoptive home. Or maybe the baby didn't care about your plans and was ready to come 3 weeks early or 2 weeks late. Maybe you hear about a child and 12 hours later, that child is in your home (in our case, it was about 10 hours from learning about the possibility of DD to her being in our house). In both cases, there are going to be known and unknown health (physical and mental) health issues.
No stranger ever had the urge to reach out and touch my belly. I never felt a kick or movement inside my womb. I never felt the fear of not feeling that movement. No one who is choosing to conceive has felt the anguish of meeting a delightful child and then seeing the records and realizing, this child isn't right for us.
But I imagine that no matter how they got there, you spend a lot of time watching them while they sleep, amazed at their beauty and wondering how in the hell you're going to do this. And I expect that your heart melts in exactly the same way the first time your child says "I love you."
So no, philosophically, I don't see many differences between choosing to conceive or adopt. There are naturally differences in the details. But basically, you start by choosing to expand your family and end with a child.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Jul 30, 2013 10:53:58 GMT -5
I am one of about 5 people (other than her and her DH) that know my BFF had two miscarriages. The first one came kind of late, after they started telling people about the pregnancy. Because of that, they decided to hold off longer on telling people about the second pregnancy, so her father, his parents, myself and one very close friend are the only ones who even knew about the second one. As a society, we even tell people they should hold off on telling others about their pregnancies until they are further along, specifically so that we then don't have to tell people about miscarriages. We encourage families to hide this major loss from those around them.
And then, when there needs to be a D&C, or some other procedure, these women still often have to go to the maternity ward to get that procedure done, walking past a nursery and all these people with their own living babies (healthy or not).
As a society, we are bad at dealing with death. We are even worse at dealing with the loss of a life not yet lived. It is something that can have a profound effect on people, and yet we expect them to shake it off and "just have another one". And many, many women only become comfortable talking about their miscarriages after they have had a healthy pregnancy and child. But not all women get to go on to that. (As I said, I know of two who have not, though one is still trying.)
But I think many of us would be surprised at how many women we know who have had miscarriages. But they don't talk about it, and, really, how do you ask about it?
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 30, 2013 10:54:53 GMT -5
Well, there's a difference between not wanting to share information and not feeling that you CAN share information. And let's be honest, people suck at trying to comfort grieving parents on a good day. A couple months ago, on the main YM board, I think Ruhk posted a Dear Prudence about someone who miscarried after she had told everyone she was expecting and her boss made a nasty comment. The Dear Prudence response was "well this is why you wait until you are 12 weeks along before you tell people you are expecting". One of the poster's on here mentioned a coworker who had a miscarriage after she told everyone and was a wreck afterwards and "it was really awkward around her with her being so upset". My thoughts is that she was going to be upset whether you knew or not. People want to pretend miscarriages don't exist. That is what made me so upset with Grandma when I was pregnant with J. Grandma was giving me shit about J's due date being New Year's eve. What Grandma didn't know was that 3 months before I got pregnant with J, I had a very early miscarriage (chemical pregnancy technically, I had that positive pregnancy test and just a couple days later "my period" arrived). So all this time Grandma was bashing me about not planning and ruining my child's life for having a baby so close to Christmas, I had been trying for a baby that would have been due 3 months earlier (actually sooner than that). Then I had 7 facebook friends have 8 babies the month that my baby would have been due. Grandma was also complaining about Christopher being due 2 weeks before Christmas. I pray to god she never complains about a due date again (not a problem for me since we are done, but I'm not sure if my brother and SIL will go for one more again or not).
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 30, 2013 10:58:46 GMT -5
I have a dear friend who had 3 miscarriages in the last 10 months. Her last one they had to do a D&C which fortunately was at general surgery. While she was waiting to go in, a nurse was expecting and just got back from having her 20 week ultrasound and was showing off her ultrasound pics to those in surgery. It was really hard for my friend.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2013 11:03:25 GMT -5
On some level, I feel like people are deliberately misinterpreting what I said, and on another, I think, maybe I did not explain myself well enough, so let's see if I can be clearer Let's start with the basic facts of where I am coming from. C and I are adopting. This was our first choice for starting a family, meaning that we have no idea if we have fertility issues or not. We never tried to conceive nor were we tested. This does NOT make us any better or worse than any other family who wants to bring a child into their lives. The matter is too deeply personal for each individual for there to be a generic "right way". There is only what is right for you as a person and as a family.
So, you decide you want to bring a(nother) child into your family. You talk with your partner (if you have one) about timing. In the case of conception, how long do we think it will take, should we start trying now, etc. In terms of adoption, how long do we think it will take, should we start the process now, etc. We all talk about child care options once the kids arrives. You talk about finances - can we afford the medical bills and adding another person to our family? can we afford the adoption fees and adding another person to our family You start the process. And here, I definitely think the process of trying to conceive is probably a lot more fun than the process of attending adoption classes. There are a variety of stumbling blocks that can happen along the way, all which take an emotional toll. There is paperwork galore for both- medical and insurance forms for conception; medical, insurance, financial, references for adoption There are appointments - OB and ultrasound vs home study and home inspection People who conceive get to choose whether or not to read parenting books and attend parenting classes, while those who adopt often have a requirement they must meet In both cases, there's a lot of waiting, emotions run high, there are countless risks and rewards. Regardless of how much time the process takes on the front end, the child comes when it is good and ready to come. Maybe you were able to schedule a C section and it all happened right on time, or maybe you got to do a slow transition from foster home to adoptive home. Or maybe the baby didn't care about your plans and was ready to come 3 weeks early or 2 weeks late. Maybe you hear about a child and 12 hours later, that child is in your home (in our case, it was about 10 hours from learning about the possibility of DD to her being in our house). In both cases, there are going to be known and unknown health (physical and mental) health issues.
No stranger ever had the urge to reach out and touch my belly. I never felt a kick or movement inside my womb. I never felt the fear of not feeling that movement. No one who is choosing to conceive has felt the anguish of meeting a delightful child and then seeing the records and realizing, this child isn't right for us.
But I imagine that no matter how they got there, you spend a lot of time watching them while they sleep, amazed at their beauty and wondering how in the hell you're going to do this. And I expect that your heart melts in exactly the same way the first time your child says "I love you."
So no, philosophically, I don't see many differences between choosing to conceive or adopt. There are naturally differences in the details. But basically, you start by choosing to expand your family and end with a child. that sounded so very defensive on your part And you can explain it step by step how it is all the same, but to ME, filling out paperwork and cleaning the house before the inspection would feel very DIFFERENTLY than waiting for a pregnancy test to find out if I am pregnant or not. And while I am not saying that love for the child would be different, again, if my kids would be adopted, I would completely miss on the feelings that I have when I look at my DH and look at them and see that connection and how they are literally pieces of us. It's like saying that a horse ride is the same as flying a plane. Yes, you start at point A and end up at point B, but I am pretty sure the rides are very different. ETA: bc your whole post looks bolded, I wanted to clarify - the "defensive" part refers to you saying "it's not better or worse"
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2013 11:09:39 GMT -5
I think the big thing is that it can be an emotional rollercoaster no matter what way you become a parent. Adoption vs trying to conceive there are ups and downs, the potential for heartbreak or things may go perfectly. Like Shannen said, it is socially acceptable to talk about adoptions going wrong, but talk about a miscarriage or stillbirth and that is socially taboo. Really ? I hope that changes, then bc I think it's terrible. People who experienced that already going through hell, you would think that we, as a society, want to make them as comfortable as we could. I really REALLY want to be a foster parent, but my DH is not letting me. He thinks I've seen too many Lifetime movies and have this rosy idea about it. We'll have to revisit the subject when my boys get older I don't think miscarriage or stillbirth are socially taboo. I had a second trimeseter loss due to a placental abruption and I have never felt it was taboo to discuss the son I never got to hold. But as a mother, it is too painful for me to this day so it isn't something I regularly bring up. It does explain my contempt for people that murder their babies inutero...
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jul 30, 2013 11:19:02 GMT -5
She's defensive since someone accused her of thinking she's "better" for adopting vs. having a child naturally after her first post. All she's trying to do is explain her first comment better (though I got what she was saying the first time). It doesn't matter how you got your family, a family is a family and no one journey is better/worse and each comes with their own trials and tribulations but at the end it's the same reward (hopefully, ideally) - a new person added to your family for you to love. And people should stop judging the rides to get there. The last line might be all me and not her.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 15,000
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jul 30, 2013 11:21:38 GMT -5
Personally I think adoption is harder, and does deserve kudos. We didn't feel up for a home study and judgment of parenting skills that we didn't have yet. So we took the path where people can judge us, but that judgment can't affect our ability to have a family.
I'd still like to adopt, but logistically and emotionally I'm not sure it will work out.
|
|
HoneyBBQ
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 10:36:09 GMT -5
Posts: 5,395
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"3b444e"}
|
Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 30, 2013 11:23:53 GMT -5
I am one of about 5 people (other than her and her DH) that know my BFF had two miscarriages. The first one came kind of late, after they started telling people about the pregnancy. Because of that, they decided to hold off longer on telling people about the second pregnancy, so her father, his parents, myself and one very close friend are the only ones who even knew about the second one. As a society, we even tell people they should hold off on telling others about their pregnancies until they are further along, specifically so that we then don't have to tell people about miscarriages. We encourage families to hide this major loss from those around them.
And then, when there needs to be a D&C, or some other procedure, these women still often have to go to the maternity ward to get that procedure done, walking past a nursery and all these people with their own living babies (healthy or not).
I also had 2 miscarriages before I had my DD. I think people don't want to discuss miscarriages because they hear so many stupid, horrible things and they are already on the brink of despair... hearing "Oh, well, at least it wasn't a real baby yet" or "God has his plans" or other stupid sh*t is just more than I could have tolerated. I would have seriously punched anybody who said something that horrible to me. People don't know what to say. I had to have D&C's with both my MC. Luckily they were just done in the OR and I didn't have to be wheeled past happy mothers. I did have to deal with many people around me getting pregnant and happily having babies in the year I was TTC and stay pregnant. One woman I worked with didn't even find out she was pregnant (unplanned) until she was 15-16 weeks along... longer than I had been pregnant either time. It was heartbreaking for me but I tried to not show how hurt I was. I did have to tell my boss 2x that I was pregnant and that I was "unpregnant" again. That was fun. He was nice enough about it, because I took medical leave for a few days after my D&C each time. Emotionally, I spent a year in a very dark place. And even though I have DD now, when I think of my losses I tear up and it hurts, even though they were just a few little cells clumped together. Adoption probably wouldn't have been an option to us due to our relationship status and my spouse's age. It was a very hard year.
|
|
HoneyBBQ
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 10:36:09 GMT -5
Posts: 5,395
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"3b444e"}
|
Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 30, 2013 11:25:43 GMT -5
But as a mother, it is too painful for me to this day so it isn't something I regularly bring up. It does explain my contempt for people that murder their babies inutero.. Pregnancy and childbirth solidified to me that nobody should have to go through that - that doesn't want to. Would it break my heart a little to hear a friend or coworker terminated their pregnancy? Of course.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Jul 30, 2013 11:30:21 GMT -5
whoisjohngalt - You are right in that that is a defensive statement, though maybe not in the way you think. I have had numerous experiences, in talking about our decision, where people inform me that I must think I am "better" than people who are adopting due to fertility issues, or people who have their own kids. That is not the case. I may sound a little flippant about it, but this was not an easy or a quick decision. It was deeply personal, too personal for me to ever judge anyone else's decisions on how to bring a child into their family (or even if they are going to do so). So I try to clarify that in the beginning.
As for the looking at your child and seeing your partner reflected there, believe it or not, I do get it. That physical, visual connection is something C and I talked about in making our decision. Knowing that makes a difference to you is, to me, part of what goes into deciding how to bring a child into your family. In the end, C and I decided that having a child that looked like us was not a priority. (And yet, DD looks enough like us, that no one is ever going to ask us, out of the blue- is she adopted.) I have a friend who is adopted herself who desperately wants to have her own child, partly because she really wants that physical connection. She wants there to be one person in the world that she can point to and say, that person is part of me and I am part of it. And I hope that she gets that.
It is very likely that the reason I see adoption and conception as similar is because having the genetic link is not important to me. I love my family very much, but our roommate J, who has been C's best friend for the last 20 years, is going to be a bigger part of DD's life than my brother ever will.
And I probably would have felt very differently waiting on a pregnancy test than I did waiting on the background checks. But I don't take those emotions into account when considering if waiting is like waiting because I couldn't name two women who had the same emotions while waiting on a pregnancy test result. Again, the emotions involved in bringing a child into your family, in my mind, are too deeply personal to ever try to compare one situation to another, no matter how much they look alike.
Which brings me back to the "philosophical" similarities. (I hope this makes sense, and I hope you know that I understand (well, as best I can) and respect your feelings. I am just trying to clarify mine.)
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2013 11:31:12 GMT -5
Personally I think adoption is harder, and does deserve kudos. We didn't feel up for a home study and judgment of parenting skills that we didn't have yet. So we took the path where people can judge us, but that judgment can't affect our ability to have a family. I'd still like to adopt, but logistically and emotionally I'm not sure it will work out. I think parenting in general is hard...no matter if you get pregnant the old fashioned way, inseminated, adopt or have a stork drop a baby at your doorstep. But it is also very rewarding and I couldn't imagine life without my kids...even though somedays the teenager is lucky I don't ask the stork for a refund
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2013 11:34:45 GMT -5
It's not the genetic part, that was just an example.
I just really don't see how those two processes are emotionally the same.
But, as I said, I've only gone through one, so my views are purely theoratical
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2013 11:35:27 GMT -5
I am one of about 5 people (other than her and her DH) that know my BFF had two miscarriages. The first one came kind of late, after they started telling people about the pregnancy. Because of that, they decided to hold off longer on telling people about the second pregnancy, so her father, his parents, myself and one very close friend are the only ones who even knew about the second one. As a society, we even tell people they should hold off on telling others about their pregnancies until they are further along, specifically so that we then don't have to tell people about miscarriages. We encourage families to hide this major loss from those around them.
And then, when there needs to be a D&C, or some other procedure, these women still often have to go to the maternity ward to get that procedure done, walking past a nursery and all these people with their own living babies (healthy or not).
I also had 2 miscarriages before I had my DD. I think people don't want to discuss miscarriages because they hear so many stupid, horrible things and they are already on the brink of despair... hearing "Oh, well, at least it wasn't a real baby yet" or "God has his plans" or other stupid sh*t is just more than I could have tolerated. I would have seriously punched anybody who said something that horrible to me. People don't know what to say. I had to have D&C's with both my MC. Luckily they were just done in the OR and I didn't have to be wheeled past happy mothers. I did have to deal with many people around me getting pregnant and happily having babies in the year I was TTC and stay pregnant. One woman I worked with didn't even find out she was pregnant (unplanned) until she was 15-16 weeks along... longer than I had been pregnant either time. It was heartbreaking for me but I tried to not show how hurt I was. I did have to tell my boss 2x that I was pregnant and that I was "unpregnant" again. That was fun. He was nice enough about it, because I took medical leave for a few days after my D&C each time. Emotionally, I spent a year in a very dark place. And even though I have DD now, when I think of my losses I tear up and it hurts, even though they were just a few little cells clumped together. Adoption probably wouldn't have been an option to us due to our relationship status and my spouse's age. It was a very hard year. I never know what to say to people. Part of it is that you have to know hte person well enough to know what they want to hear. My mom is super religious as is most of my family. They take comfort in believing that whatever shit happens, it is all part of God's master plan. They learned very quickly that I did not feel the same way when God got the blame for taking my baby....but, when something happens to my very religious family members I do remind them that everything is part of God's plan (becuase htat is what they believe)...for some it comforts, for others it sends the person into a rage...which is why most people avoid all situations of death or illness....you just don't know what the hell to say
|
|