milee
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Post by milee on Jul 7, 2013 11:44:16 GMT -5
I'm saying that - assuming the outfit is legal and within the rules/regulations for that setting - whether I personally like an outfit, whether the outfit is inappropriate, whether the outfit has a huge "TRAMP" sticker across it should not be the primary focus of the debate here.
the TSA guy made a comment.....was it wrong....probably was it DESERVED? probably....but that isnt his call to make same as the teenage guy running around showing the crack of his ass, because he cant find a belt, or buy pants that actually fit him same as the girl who dresses like a prostitute/tramp because she has no respect for herself my main question would be...."did the TSA guy's comment cross the line?" was he trying to be helpful or hurtful? as my employee, i would write him up, and tell him to keep his trap shut from now on..... but i also understand where he is coming from and if you think that girls/women dressing provocatively has no bearing on how she is treated, you would be wrong And I personally agree with substantially all of this.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 7, 2013 11:45:59 GMT -5
You dress a certain way - accept what comes with it, including comments from strangers. The problem with this line of thinking is that dressing "a certain way" is to utterly subjective. When I was 11 a boy at school called me a slut. I was underweight, had not hit puberty, had never kissed anyone and was wearing leggings and an XL sweatshirt that covered my non-existent booty. The boy grew up in a polygamist mormon community and the girls dressed exactly like the ladies from Big Love or Little House on the Prarie. I am sure I did look inappropriate to him. Unless you wear a neck to ankle dress, you would also look inappropriate to him. If you wear pants, you dress "a certain way" according to people from many religions and cultures. Are you willing to accept what comes with that if someone with those beliefs choses to treat to accordingly? Yes, it is subjective as many many things are. If you are asking me personally, I guess I just don't care what people say to me or about me. I have no doubt that short skirts I used to wear in my pre-fat days caused many eye -rolls and many various comments. Unless it is someone I respect or person who had a direct authority over me (like my manager - which actually happened one time) - it made no sense to me to pay attention to comments and looks. People say so many hurtful and stupid things to each other - I just can't make my life about that.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 7, 2013 11:52:19 GMT -5
Milee, I just can't see how you can compare it to the race thing. And this is from a person who has been through both - I've haeard comments based on who I am (my race) and I've heard comments based on how I dress. It is sooooo not the same thing.
And once again, I am talking about words only, bc if there is a harmful action involved - that's a whole other story
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 12:14:06 GMT -5
People are talking rape, violence, etc.. This story is nothing about that. The poor girl got a talking to, boo hoo... sorry MMC - you are wrong. Men thinking it is ok/acceptable to comment on what a female chooses to wear is the problem. That it was a person in an authority position, and a minor involved each escalate this particular situation. She didn't "get a talking to" - she was harassed. And all those twisting this to be the TSA agent was trying to be helpful, wow. Just wow. Here is my assumption. I assume that the girls boob were in view. Why, because the whole story doesn't make sense if they weren't. It couldn't have been a see through top with a bra underneath because women do that all the time. For this to make sense the boobs would have more or less had to be able to be seen. And a guy told her to cover up, OMG the loss of woman's equality has been set back 100 years. Maybe your right though. Maybe an airport full of people (many of which are men, another assumption) should have the right to look at a 15 years olds boobs. If that's true then that means that a 15 year old should have the right to show her boobs. That tells me that we need to abolish all of those nasty laws that we have protecting children (& a 15 year old girl is legally a child) & let them choose for themselves because they all have such good judgement. I have a hard time understanding how any woman can defend in any way the right for a 15 year old child to make that kind of call. Should she also have the right to carry around a sign saying "Look at these, I'm a sex object" because she wants too? I am just blown away.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 12:17:24 GMT -5
It is funny you thought I was black though? Did you read my posts thinking "there is an angry black man"? I thought you were black also because you referred to yourself as a "brother" a few times. One time, you said that the white ladies on this board were trying to keep a brother (again referring to yourself) down.
So you were stereotyping based on some incidental evidence?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 7, 2013 12:20:08 GMT -5
I really like your new screen name, MMC. I'm thinking of changing mine to Milee NotSlut.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 12:22:52 GMT -5
It sure as heck isn't the call of the TSA agent. It's between her, her parents and the laws of the land. She was fine with it, her parents were fine with it and the laws were fine with it. I'm pretty sure if her boobs were showing the law would not have been fine with it. Not the TSA agent's place to comment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 12:26:57 GMT -5
I really like your new screen name, MMC. I'm thinking of changing mine to Milee NotSlut.
No one thinks of you as a slut. I, on the other hand, apparently needed to clarify.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 12:28:09 GMT -5
I really like your new screen name, MMC. I'm thinking of changing mine to Milee NotSlut.
No one thinks of you as a slut. I, on the other hand, apparently needed to clarify.
Why? There's nothing wrong with being black.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 7, 2013 12:32:53 GMT -5
I really like your new screen name, MMC. I'm thinking of changing mine to Milee NotSlut.
No one thinks of you as a slut. I, on the other hand, apparently needed to clarify.
Based on the comments I'm reading here, the fact that I wear a sports skirt to attract help with flat tires places me firmly in the "slut" category. I'm sure if my body is found beside the road, most of the debate will center on how my choice of clothing caused my attack... If only I had listened to Thyme and bought myself some decent jeans! On the other hand, I didn't say (and don't remember anybody else saying) being black was a bad thing. But if you want to clarify, of course that's OK.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 14:02:37 GMT -5
It sure as heck isn't the call of the TSA agent. It's between her, her parents and the laws of the land. She was fine with it, her parents were fine with it and the laws were fine with it. I'm pretty sure if her boobs were showing the law would not have been fine with it. Not the TSA agent's place to comment. As the TSA agent I agree because I doubt that it falls under his umbrella of responsibilities. As a man, I kind of disagree. As I said in an earlier post I would hope that I would have gone that route (telling her to cover up) rather than just looking. As far as her parents, IF her boobs were in view then they aren't doing their job & NO a 15 year old showing her boobs isn't ok no matter who says it's ok. And once again the story doesn't make sense unless her boobs were more or less in view, so I'm assuming they were.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 7, 2013 14:18:10 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 14:40:14 GMT -5
tex how do I get the point across? As a man, if looking at her is immoral than the solution is for you to stop looking at her. You change your own behaviour, not hers. You talk as if the only choices are to ogle her or harass her.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 7, 2013 15:02:39 GMT -5
I thought you were black also because you referred to yourself as a "brother" a few times. One time, you said that the white ladies on this board were trying to keep a brother (again referring to yourself) down.
So you were stereotyping based on some incidental evidence?
That is one way to look at it. Given the fact that you also said that your celebrity look alike was "Shaq" and have spoken with authority about black culture on several occasions, there are probably other ways to look at how you have been "stereotyped."
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 7, 2013 15:33:58 GMT -5
tex how do I get the point across? As a man, if looking at her is immoral than the solution is for you to stop looking at her. You change your own behaviour, not hers. You talk as if the only choices are to ogle her or harass her. If he was peeping in her window you would be spot on. But if she was walking through the airport no. If anyone doesn't want others oogling at their whatever they need to cover it up in public. I am not a prude as far as clothes I just think that people have lost all sense of perspective as far as what is appropiate in what setting. A micro mini string bikini/speedo is totally fine on the beach or at the pool. It is not okay at the mall, restaurant or walking through the airport and lastly church. I say the last because I actually know people who have been in service when people were asked to leave and come back properly dressed. Should the guy have said it as part of his job of course not, if only because he might want to keep it. It isn't even close to the worst thing I have heard a TSA agent say though, so why is this such a big deal? I am way more apt to get up in arms about all the liberties we have lost in the name of homeland security that have managed to make no one more secure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 16:24:01 GMT -5
So you were stereotyping based on some incidental evidence?
That is one way to look at it. Given the fact that you also said that your celebrity look alike was "Shaq" and have spoken with authority about black culture on several occasions, there are probably other ways to look at how you have been "stereotyped."
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 7, 2013 16:29:34 GMT -5
So are you calling susanb a stalker or saying you look like the guy in the picture?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 16:33:33 GMT -5
So are you calling susanb a stalker or saying you look like the guy in the picture? I'm not quite that white...
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 7, 2013 16:35:37 GMT -5
Good. He looks like he's not feeling well.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 7, 2013 16:41:00 GMT -5
What interests me is the number of people who are willing to jump to the conclusion that the picture posted does not accurately depict the way the girl was dressed at the time of the incident. The caption states this was the "outfit" she was wearing. I see no reason to doubt that, as I don't take it upon myself to assume another is lying. I don't lie, so I don't tend to expect others to do so. Perhaps, that's naive; still, to me there's something wrong with deciding someone is lying when you have no clue whether they are, or not.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 7, 2013 16:47:10 GMT -5
It sure as heck isn't the call of the TSA agent. It's between her, her parents and the laws of the land. She was fine with it, her parents were fine with it and the laws were fine with it. I'm pretty sure if her boobs were showing the law would not have been fine with it. Not the TSA agent's place to comment. As the TSA agent I agree because I doubt that it falls under his umbrella of responsibilities. As a man, I kind of disagree. As I said in an earlier post I would hope that I would have gone that route (telling her to cover up) rather than just looking. As far as her parents, IF her boobs were in view then they aren't doing their job & NO a 15 year old showing her boobs isn't ok no matter who says it's ok. And once again the story doesn't make sense unless her boobs were more or less in view, so I'm assuming they were. Why, instead of assuming the picture is a real example of what she was wearing when she debarked, do you assume the TSA agent was correct in proclaiming she was improperly clad? It's just as possible he was applying HIS views of what's right rather than society's rules of what's right, oldtex.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 7, 2013 16:51:55 GMT -5
I agree he was inappropriate, Rukh. It's not his job to dress the teens, as I said. I, too, doubt this was the first time. I just hope it's the last time.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 7, 2013 16:57:16 GMT -5
Darn it, MMC, it isn't much fun to stalk you if you mis-represent yourself. Next thing you will be telling me you don't make a gajillion dollars a year. Then what will I know about you? I guess about the same amount of information that I do now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 16:57:51 GMT -5
What interests me is the number of people who are willing to jump to the conclusion that the picture posted does not accurately depict the way the girl was dressed at the time of the incident. The caption states this was the "outfit" she was wearing. I see no reason to doubt that, as I don't take it upon myself to assume another is lying. I don't lie, so I don't tend to expect others to do so. Perhaps, that's naive; still, to me there's something wrong with deciding someone is lying when you have no clue whether they are, or not. I don't doubt that it was the outfit that she was wearing. On the other hand I doubt that a picture could accurately show how revealing it was. As one of the posters said, her daughter has several of those tops & they are see through. I "ASSUME" that must be true otherwise the TSA agents statement makes on sense to me. Either way we won't reach an agreement here. I "assume" that a 15 year old child was exposing herself. Others assume that it was a case of abuse of power. Oh well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 16:58:33 GMT -5
It sure as heck isn't the call of the TSA agent. It's between her, her parents and the laws of the land. She was fine with it, her parents were fine with it and the laws were fine with it. I'm pretty sure if her boobs were showing the law would not have been fine with it. Not the TSA agent's place to comment. I agree and wanted to add about her over shirt, she would have been forced by TSA to remove the over shirt to go through the security checkpoint. There have been a few times when I've been extremely embarrassed after being forced to take off a layer I consider just part of the clothing but TSA insisted it be removed and placed on the conveyor. That's a really good point. An overshirt would have been taken off to go through security...and not necessarily because she wanted to take it off....so her lack of 'cover up' may well have been partially due to the TSA rules themselves. Which makes this more egregious.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 7, 2013 17:00:18 GMT -5
What interests me is the number of people who are willing to jump to the conclusion that the picture posted does not accurately depict the way the girl was dressed at the time of the incident. The caption states this was the "outfit" she was wearing. I see no reason to doubt that, as I don't take it upon myself to assume another is lying. I don't lie, so I don't tend to expect others to do so. Perhaps, that's naive; still, to me there's something wrong with deciding someone is lying when you have no clue whether they are, or not. I don't doubt that it was the outfit that she was wearing. On the other hand I doubt that a picture could accurately show how revealing it was. As one of the posters said, her daughter has several of those tops & they are see through. I "ASSUME" that must be true otherwise the TSA agents statement makes on sense to me. Either way we won't reach an agreement here. I "assume" that a 15 year old child was exposing herself. Others assume that it was a case of abuse of power. Oh well. So you assume that since the story didn't make sense that the woman is more likely to be the one lying or the cause of the issue? Why assume that rather than assume that the TSA guy was overstepping his authority? There have been plenty of news articles about TSA agents overstepping authority, doing improper pat downs, taking pictures of the scans that show the near naked pictures of passengers, etc. If the story doesn't make sense to you, why assume the woman is at fault?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 17:08:12 GMT -5
I see a lot of people acting like the TSA comment came from someone being creepy versus someone being, in their own mind, protective. I think a creep wouldn't want her to cover anything up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 17:10:06 GMT -5
SHE has no problem with what she was wearing. In this conversation old tex does. So I'm telling him not to look if you think it's wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 17:11:03 GMT -5
I see a lot of people acting like the TSA comment came from someone being creepy versus someone being, in their own mind, protective. I think a creep wouldn't want her to cover anything up. Your logic doesn't follow. The guys that make women wear burkas are creepy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 17:11:26 GMT -5
I don't doubt that it was the outfit that she was wearing. On the other hand I doubt that a picture could accurately show how revealing it was. As one of the posters said, her daughter has several of those tops & they are see through. I "ASSUME" that must be true otherwise the TSA agents statement makes on sense to me. Either way we won't reach an agreement here. I "assume" that a 15 year old child was exposing herself. Others assume that it was a case of abuse of power. Oh well. So you assume that since the story didn't make sense that the woman is more likely to be the one lying or the cause of the issue? Why assume that rather than assume that the TSA guy was overstepping his authority? There have been plenty of news articles about TSA agents overstepping authority, doing improper pat downs, taking pictures of the scans that show the near naked pictures of passengers, etc. If the story doesn't make sense to you, why assume the woman is at fault? Did the TSA officer order her to put on more clothes? To overstep authority, something like an order with follow up consequences would be needed. What we instead have is someone making a comment they shouldn't have. Inappropriate yes and worthy of a write up at the most. To stretch this into more is an attempt to turn this into a witch, er warlock, hunt.
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