mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 13, 2013 12:33:46 GMT -5
Abso-damned-lutely! I've been a very vocal advocate for stronger punishment for domestic abuse for years. I've seen the results far too many times. If we don't stand up and shout and keep shouting, this sort of ugliness will continue. It's unacceptable. But it doesn't seem like standing up and shouting is doing much good. What about teaching these women about defending themselves? We've got several programs in place to do just this, MT, and I've been active in them. That's just one step in the process, but it's a good one. It's a very, very complex problem. I do understand that for those of us who wouldn't tolerate abuse of any sort, it's really difficult to understand those who do. I found I needed to be educated just as much as they did.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 13, 2013 12:34:52 GMT -5
If I were the bishop, I'd have the principal send out exactly the letter that was sent, instruct the teacher to get her and her kids's names changed, and get passports for her and the kids, and then start making discrete inquiries to find a safe place for this woman and her kids, preferrably in another country. Well, that would be up to the woman. I don't think she should have to leave the country. She could easily move and hide, unless this guy was super-vindictive. If I were in her shoes, I would most definitely change houses, and leave the area, possibly the state - but I wouldn't feel like I needed to completely disappear.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 13, 2013 12:35:02 GMT -5
As these California parents (of these Catholic school students) pay federal, state (some states) local city taxes, and their taxes pay to support public schools, then I would think they could get local police protection (if necessary) to guard the school. Where is the money going to come from to place armed security details at our schools as a result of the Newtown school shooting? It is going to come from our paid taxes. And the protection of the schools shouldn't just be limited to public schools (and probably won't be). As I said, ours was a small, private hospital. We didn't have tons of money, either. Our security system was put in place with the help of local businesses that we actively beat about the head and shoulders until they agreed to help. We never had a problem with response from our local police. They were always Johnny-on-the-spot and very helpful. It's a community effort and requires a good deal of footwork and cajoling, but it can be done. Does this hospital have an emergency room or a psych ward? If so, then they have violent and crazy people coming in on a daily basis and having one employee with a crazy ex wouldn't change their risk level one iota. You know this.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 13, 2013 12:35:58 GMT -5
Abso-damned-lutely! I've been a very vocal advocate for stronger punishment for domestic abuse for years. I've seen the results far too many times. If we don't stand up and shout and keep shouting, this sort of ugliness will continue. It's unacceptable. But it doesn't seem like standing up and shouting is doing much good. What about teaching these women about defending themselves? Until these women feel empowered over their own lives, it will never happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 12:36:42 GMT -5
If my kid was in this school, I would pull them out after this. While I understand the points being made, it is in no way, shape or form acceptable to me to penalize the victim. My child would be placed in some other school and the diocese would never see a penny from me or my family again. and for every parent that feels that way, there are 10 that would love to put their child in that school so you send yours to a different PRIVATE school....but if the same thing happens, the administrators there will make the exact same decision again
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 13, 2013 12:36:56 GMT -5
The difference is, the first time I got a black eye for any reason would be the minute my husband's ass lands in jail. And I would be armed and waiting for when he got out of jail and was looking to take a shot at me again. I do understand that PFAs are meaningless and sometimes you just have to defend yourself. For those of us that aren't willing to put up with abuse, it is very hard to understand a woman who is. I see it in my ex-bff...nothing to this extent but he has gotten physical with her on many occasions, she files PFA's and then let's him back in. While no one deserves to be hit, you are setting yoruself up for abuse if you continue to take it. The problem with that, Miss T, is exactly what we've been discussing. Your husband's ass might not even end up in jail in the first place. Oh...maybe they will take him there to formally charge him...but chances are he'll be there about 2 hours. Not much time for you to go out, purchase a weapon, figure out how to use it and get back home. He'll be told not to come back to your house as it is procedure here in a domestic abuse situation that one party has to be removed from the premises. They rarely comply.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 13, 2013 12:37:16 GMT -5
I lie awake more than I'll ever admit to people in RL wondering if I sent my friend to his doom. I feel like the biggest piece of shit sometimes because I did not do the "right thing" and take a stand and protect him.
But I still stand by my choice. Gwen's safety and DH's safety comes first over making stands and political statements.
I hardly took the decision lightly.
I doubt the school did either and some of them probably aren't sleeping well at night either. They chose their staff, other students and the parents first. They made the decision they had to.
Laws should be changed to keep these assholes in jail forever. There should also be better services available for people seeking to get out.
But until that happens I am not going to fault anyone who chooses to not have these issues on their doorstep. Especiallly when you have the safety of others besides yourself to consider.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 13, 2013 12:37:41 GMT -5
As I said, ours was a small, private hospital. We didn't have tons of money, either. Our security system was put in place with the help of local businesses that we actively beat about the head and shoulders until they agreed to help. We never had a problem with response from our local police. They were always Johnny-on-the-spot and very helpful. It's a community effort and requires a good deal of footwork and cajoling, but it can be done. Does this hospital have an emergency room or a psych ward? If so, then they have violent and crazy people coming in on a daily basis and having one employee with a crazy ex wouldn't change their risk level one iota. You know this. The hospital does have an ER, but no psych ward. We did not have "violent and crazy people coming in on a daily basis". Having a staff member with a crazy estranged husband did, indeed, change our risk level at that time. Do not tell me what I know.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 13, 2013 12:37:51 GMT -5
But it doesn't seem like standing up and shouting is doing much good. What about teaching these women about defending themselves? We've got several programs in place to do just this, MT, and I've been active in them. That's just one step in the process, but it's a good one. It's a very, very complex problem. I do understand that for those of us who wouldn't tolerate abuse of any sort, it's really difficult to understand those who do. I found I needed to be educated just as much as they did. I agree. I'm a person who doesn't take excuses well. Your man just beat the crap out of you...you get out. End of story. Ironically, when my bff would cry about getting smacked around, I would want to bitch-slap her for taking it
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 13, 2013 12:38:57 GMT -5
The difference is, the first time I got a black eye for any reason would be the minute my husband's ass lands in jail. And I would be armed and waiting for when he got out of jail and was looking to take a shot at me again. I do understand that PFAs are meaningless and sometimes you just have to defend yourself. For those of us that aren't willing to put up with abuse, it is very hard to understand a woman who is. I see it in my ex-bff...nothing to this extent but he has gotten physical with her on many occasions, she files PFA's and then let's him back in. While no one deserves to be hit, you are setting yoruself up for abuse if you continue to take it. The problem with that, Miss T, is exactly what we've been discussing. Your husband's ass might not even end up in jail in the first place. Oh...maybe they will take him there to formally charge him...but chances are he'll be there about 2 hours. Not much time for you to go out, purchase a weapon, figure out how to use it and get back home. He'll be told not to come back to your house as it is procedure here in a domestic abuse situation that one party has to be removed from the premises. They rarely comply. Sweetie, I'm a republican...I've already got my guns and ammo By the time he gets released from jail, I'd be cocked and loaded and ready to go
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 13, 2013 12:40:42 GMT -5
But it doesn't seem like standing up and shouting is doing much good. What about teaching these women about defending themselves? Until these women feel empowered over their own lives, it will never happen. Yes! And we can't stop standing up and shouting. Getting discouraged isn't getting things done. Keep standing up and keep shouting!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 13, 2013 12:44:18 GMT -5
But it doesn't seem like standing up and shouting is doing much good. What about teaching these women about defending themselves? Again...exactly. But even that isn't helping this woman support her children. And that's what some people don't get. There's more to domestic abuse than just the slap, punch, etc. It's the fall-out. She can arm herself, take self-defense classes and get a guard dog, but she still (at this point) doesn't have the ability to support herself and her children because she was fired for the actions of another. There's so much more that comes AFTER the act/acts of violence that we need to deal with. You abuse your wife? You are going to prison for 10 years. For 10 years, you are not going to be a threat to her/his safety. You are not going to be a threat to the safety of the children. You are not going to be a threat to her place of employment. Youare not going to raise children who think hurting their mother is ok. Nobody has to worry about your sorry ass for 10.....long.....years. Period.
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deantrip
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Post by deantrip on Jun 13, 2013 12:44:25 GMT -5
The problem with that, Miss T, is exactly what we've been discussing. Your husband's ass might not even end up in jail in the first place. Oh...maybe they will take him there to formally charge him...but chances are he'll be there about 2 hours. Not much time for you to go out, purchase a weapon, figure out how to use it and get back home. He'll be told not to come back to your house as it is procedure here in a domestic abuse situation that one party has to be removed from the premises. They rarely comply. Sweetie, I'm a republican...I've already got my guns and ammo By the time he gets released from jail, I'd be cocked and loaded and ready to go So am I, and I fully approve of armed guards at schools, one solution that doesn't really cost any extra money. Many cities have regional offices besides the main station where PD/Sheriffs can go and file paperwork and upload to the main server, hospitals, fire halls and the likes are usually locations for these offices. All that the LEO needs is access to a phone line and internet and a desk to work at, if schools pushed for this option instead of sending the LEO elsewhere then you get on duty LEO at the school on a regular basis at virtually no cost to the schools.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 13, 2013 12:46:03 GMT -5
But it doesn't seem like standing up and shouting is doing much good. What about teaching these women about defending themselves? Again...exactly. But even that isn't helping this woman support her children. And that's what some people don't get. There's more to domestic abuse than just the slap, punch, etc. It's the fall-out. She can arm herself, take self-defense classes and get a guard dog, but she still (at this point) doesn't have the ability to support herself and her children because she was fired for the actions of another. There's so much more that comes AFTER the act/acts of violence that we need to deal with. You abuse your wife? You are going to prison for 10 years. For 10 years, you are not going to be a threat to her/his safety. You are not going to be a threat to the safety of the children. You are not going to be a threat to her place of employment. Youare not going to raise children who think hurting their mother is ok. Nobody has to worry about your sorry ass for 10.....long.....years. Period. That is just in this case. I doubt the majority of women are fired over domestic violence. My bff is gainfully employed but chooses to stay with someone who ocassioanly knocks her around. What is her excuse?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 13, 2013 12:46:57 GMT -5
The problem with that, Miss T, is exactly what we've been discussing. Your husband's ass might not even end up in jail in the first place. Oh...maybe they will take him there to formally charge him...but chances are he'll be there about 2 hours. Not much time for you to go out, purchase a weapon, figure out how to use it and get back home. He'll be told not to come back to your house as it is procedure here in a domestic abuse situation that one party has to be removed from the premises. They rarely comply. Sweetie, I'm a republican...I've already got my guns and ammo By the time he gets released from jail, I'd be cocked and loaded and ready to go lol...excellent...sometime we should compare weapons of choice.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 13, 2013 12:49:29 GMT -5
Again...exactly. But even that isn't helping this woman support her children. And that's what some people don't get. There's more to domestic abuse than just the slap, punch, etc. It's the fall-out. She can arm herself, take self-defense classes and get a guard dog, but she still (at this point) doesn't have the ability to support herself and her children because she was fired for the actions of another. There's so much more that comes AFTER the act/acts of violence that we need to deal with. You abuse your wife? You are going to prison for 10 years. For 10 years, you are not going to be a threat to her/his safety. You are not going to be a threat to the safety of the children. You are not going to be a threat to her place of employment. Youare not going to raise children who think hurting their mother is ok. Nobody has to worry about your sorry ass for 10.....long.....years. Period. That is just in this case. I doubt the majority of women are fired over domestic violence. My bff is gainfully employed but chooses to stay with someone who ocassioanly knocks her around. What is her excuse? There could be any number of reasons why your friend stays in the relationship. The only one who's going to know what they are is your friend, and she might not really understand it. She needs professional intervention, but that's not as easy to do as it is to talk about. This is an area that needs a lot of work!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 13, 2013 12:49:57 GMT -5
Sweetie, I'm a republican...I've already got my guns and ammo By the time he gets released from jail, I'd be cocked and loaded and ready to go lol...excellent...sometime we should compare weapons of choice. LOL...but seriously, any woman under threat of violence should be armed and ready to defend herself. My husband is much stronger than me and much faster than me. I can't outrun him and, unless I land a kcik to the crotch before he hits me, I am no match for him physically. But I think anyone would think twice before an armed woman who has no hesitation in popping your ass if you attempt to harm her.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 13, 2013 12:50:51 GMT -5
Sweetie, I'm a republican...I've already got my guns and ammo By the time he gets released from jail, I'd be cocked and loaded and ready to go lol...excellent...sometime we should compare weapons of choice. This gave me a bit of a chuckle. My first husband was abusive. My late DH and I used to laugh thinking what that man's life would have been like had he been married to the later me, rather than the earlier me. As my husband was fond of saying, he wouldn't have had to worry about his life.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 13, 2013 12:51:12 GMT -5
That is just in this case. I doubt the majority of women are fired over domestic violence. My bff is gainfully employed but chooses to stay with someone who ocassioanly knocks her around. What is her excuse? There could be any number of reasons why your friend stays in the relationship. The only one who's going to know what they are is your friend, and she might not really understand it. She needs professional intervention, but that's not as easy to do as it is to talk about. This is an area that needs a lot of work! I've asked her many times and she is full of excuses...she cant afford to live on her own (yes she can, just not in the standard she is used to), they are meant for one another, he doesn't mean to hit her (I guess his fist accidentally falls on her??).....
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 13, 2013 12:52:52 GMT -5
Yep. Those are the standards. It almost makes you wonder if there's a book somewhere from which they get these lame excuses. Frankly, in most cases, it's a matter of very low self-esteem. That's not something that can be corrected overnight. It took a long time to build.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 13, 2013 12:53:04 GMT -5
lol...excellent...sometime we should compare weapons of choice. This gave me a bit of a chuckle. My first husband was abusive. My late DH and I used to laugh thinking what that man's life would have been like had he been married to the later me, rather than the earlier me. As my husband was fond of saying, he wouldn't have had to worry about his life. Ok, now I really understand where you are coming from and I can understand your point of view better.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 13, 2013 12:53:05 GMT -5
So, basically, she is getting paid to be a punching bag. I'm all for free market, but it wouldn't be a part-time job I would chose for anyone.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 13, 2013 12:53:58 GMT -5
That is just in this case. I doubt the majority of women are fired over domestic violence. My bff is gainfully employed but chooses to stay with someone who ocassioanly knocks her around. What is her excuse? I don't know, Miss T. I'd have to speak with her personally. She's not seeing it like you do, more than likely. She has "reasons" and not "excuses". None of them are good enough, but she's not seeing that now. Be her friend and hope that she sees the light sooner than later.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 13, 2013 12:54:48 GMT -5
This gave me a bit of a chuckle. My first husband was abusive. My late DH and I used to laugh thinking what that man's life would have been like had he been married to the later me, rather than the earlier me. As my husband was fond of saying, he wouldn't have had to worry about his life. Ok, now I really understand where you are coming from and I can understand your point of view better. Thanks, MT. Yes, I've experienced both sides of this issue and am able to look with experienced eyes on both sides. That's why I'm not into assigning blame as much as to developing better methods of dealing with the issues that arise.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 13, 2013 12:54:49 GMT -5
So, basically, she is getting paid to be a punching bag. I'm all for free market, but it wouldn't be a part-time job I would chose for anyone. Unless we are talking millions like the pro-boxers get
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 13, 2013 12:55:27 GMT -5
Does this hospital have an emergency room or a psych ward? If so, then they have violent and crazy people coming in on a daily basis and having one employee with a crazy ex wouldn't change their risk level one iota. You know this. The hospital does have an ER, but no psych ward. We did not have "violent and crazy people coming in on a daily basis". Having a staff member with a crazy estranged husband did, indeed, change our risk level at that time. Do not tell me what I know. Bullshit. An ER means that every day you have both victims and perpetrators of violent crime, along with a parade of drug addicts and loons coming through your doors. You also get your share of normal people who are pushed beyond their limits and act out. This is in no way the same situation as an elementary school.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 13, 2013 12:56:30 GMT -5
I say the same thing, mmhmm. It's funny how life changes us sometimes. I used to be sweet.
His life married to the later me should have been decidely shorter.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 13, 2013 12:57:13 GMT -5
You've beat up your wife?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 13, 2013 12:58:38 GMT -5
You've beat up your wife? If so, are you butch?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 13, 2013 13:01:46 GMT -5
Again...exactly. But even that isn't helping this woman support her children. And that's what some people don't get. There's more to domestic abuse than just the slap, punch, etc. It's the fall-out. She can arm herself, take self-defense classes and get a guard dog, but she still (at this point) doesn't have the ability to support herself and her children because she was fired for the actions of another. There's so much more that comes AFTER the act/acts of violence that we need to deal with. You abuse your wife? You are going to prison for 10 years. For 10 years, you are not going to be a threat to her/his safety. You are not going to be a threat to the safety of the children. You are not going to be a threat to her place of employment. Youare not going to raise children who think hurting their mother is ok. Nobody has to worry about your sorry ass for 10.....long.....years. Period. That is just in this case. I doubt the majority of women are fired over domestic violence. My bff is gainfully employed but chooses to stay with someone who ocassioanly knocks her around. What is her excuse? Our intruder never returned. He knew, by having me in his face while the police were cuffing him and putting him in the police car, it would be wise of him to avoid the hospital at all costs. We WOULD shoot his arse! The staff member who was being stalked by this idiot is still employed at the hospital and doing well, last I heard. I don't know what happened to the intruder. I'd like to think he's under the jail, but I doubt it.
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