Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 12, 2013 20:39:55 GMT -5
And should the school district someway compensate the former teacher? Domestic Violence Victim Fired From TeachingA San Diego teacher was fired by Holy Trinity School following a domestic violence incident involving her ex-husband. Second-grade teacher Carie Charlesworth is out of a job, but not for anything she did in the classroom. Her school district considers her a liability and too unsafe to have around following a domestic violence dispute that happened earlier this year. A letter sent to Charlesworth said that school officials are concerned about her ex-husband's "threatening and menacing behavior," and as a result they "cannot allow" her to continue teaching at the Holy Trinity School. "They’ve taken away my ability to care for my kids,” said Charlesworth. “It’s not like I can go out and find a teaching job anywhere.” The mother of four children didn’t think this would ever be her story to tell, but she is using her name and showing her face in hopes of bringing attention to a larger problem. It’s a story that has domestic violence advocates outraged, fearing it will only reinforce an age-old problem where victims stay silent — but equally concerned are the school's parents, not wanting their kids in the middle of it. “Basically, we’d had a very bad weekend with him, we’d called the sheriff’s department three times on Sunday with him,” said Charlesworth, referring to an incident in January that put her leave of absence in motion. She went to her principal at Holy Trinity School in El Cajon the following morning and told the principal to be on the lookout for her ex-husband. As many domestic violence cases go, this one has a trail of restraining orders and 911 calls. When Charlesworth’s ex-husband showed up in the school parking lot, the school went into lockdown. Charlesworth and her four kids, who also attended Holy Trinity School, have not been back since the January incident. A letter was sent home to parents the following day, explaining the situation and noting Charlesworth and her children were being put "on an indefinite leave.” While Charlesworth’s husband went to jail on two felony charges, she says she felt like a criminal too. “And that’s what it felt like, the kids and I were being punished for something we didn’t even do,” she told NBC 7 San Diego. Three months later, another letter arrived in the mail delivering a crushing blow. Charlesworth was fired for good, and after 14 years in the district not allowed to teach at any other Diocesan school. The letter stated: Rest of article here: www.nbcnews.com/id/52183094While I can appreciate the school's concern for the safety of the students and others at the school, the teacher has personally done nothing wrong. The school could at least give the teacher an extremely handsome and generous severance package.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 12, 2013 20:43:59 GMT -5
They ought to throw that asshole in jail permanently while someone uses him as a girlfriend for awhile. Maybe he'd learn to leave others alone. Sick bastard and now she's out of a job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 20:57:07 GMT -5
Tennesseer, when people talk about teacher tenure, this is what tenure is really about. It is isn't about keeping incompetent teachers in the classroom. It is about protecting people who are fired for no fault except that it is easier to fire the teacher than deal with the problem.
However, this teacher is a private school teacher so tenure is not involved.
It isn't fair, but it is life. The parents pay tuition that allows the school to function. If the teacher stays, the parents see it as an endangerment to their children. So they are willing to yank them if necessary. If enough yank them, there is no school and the teacher has no job. I taught in a private school where my ex was chair of the board. An extremely good teacher was fired for no other reason than she personally disagreed with the headmaster. He was also the football coach and cursed at the players. He would not have divisiveness at the school. Whether she was right or wrong was immaterial. It undermined his authority, and he was not accepting that. In another case, a student tried to commit suicide. He was not allowed to return even though his psychiatrist said it was important to his mental health. The Board viewed it as a danger to the other students, including the possibility that he might harm some of them if he included them in another attempt. It is a really, really tough call.
The school doesn't owe the teacher a generous severance package. It actually sounds as if they were very generous in paying her while placing her on leave. She has been on leave since January and will be paid through August. She has no further "rights." It is really that simple.
However, she should be able to file for unemployment, and they are totally wrong if they try to block her. But they probably won't.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 12, 2013 21:01:10 GMT -5
As a person, I feel for this woman. As a parent, i would not want my children involved in a situation like this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 21:04:41 GMT -5
Here it is law that she report the threat to her employer who is then legally bound to take all reasonable measures to ensure her safety. The law was inspired when a nurse and doctor employed at the same hospital split up and he was being threatening. The employer knew of the situation and would actually schedule them together despite her requests not to. He ended up killing her. Not at the hospital but he did kill her. These threats need to be dealt with severely much sooner. Now they pretty much have to kill her to be put away.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 12, 2013 21:06:44 GMT -5
I don't know if I can be objective on the subject of domestic violence, so my 1st response is - she was wrongly fired.
Also, we always stand up "for the children". And that's wonderful, but if we continue with the logic of this school - victims of domestic violence then really shouldn't be allowed to work anywhere, right?
Who is to say that some nut job of an ex won't shoot up a hospital or an office building or a grocery store?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jun 12, 2013 21:26:41 GMT -5
Life is unfair.
Under no circumstance would I ever allow someone else to decide it's ok to put my child in harm's way.
Is that what you're advocating for Tennesseer? Do you have children, would you want their teacher to have a violent ex known to violate court orders and trespass on school property?
And how exactly is any of this the school's fault? Yet you would have them be the ones to provide financial compensation.
By what reason?
This woman had NO BUSINESS bringing this kind of crap to a school. She made her problem the problem of a bunch of kids. She knew there would likely be trouble and decided to risk the kids anyway. What kind of person does that make her? Who tries to hid behind a bunch of kids?
It's too bad her ex is a psycho, but she may have to change her chosen career or continue to knowingly place innocents in harms way - which is a conscious choice on her part.
Of course there are more ways to deal with dangerous ex's...
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 12, 2013 21:35:45 GMT -5
Life is unfair.
Under no circumstance would I ever allow someone else to decide it's ok to put my child in harm's way.
Is that what you're advocating for Tennesseer? Do you have children, would you want their teacher to have a violent ex known to violate court orders and trespass on school property?
And how exactly is any of this the school's fault? Yet you would have them be the ones to provide financial compensation.
By what reason?
This woman had NO BUSINESS bringing this kind of crap to a school. She made her problem the problem of a bunch of kids. She knew there would likely be trouble and decided to risk the kids anyway. What kind of person does that make her? Who tries to hid behind a bunch of kids?
It's too bad her ex is a psycho, but she may have to change her chosen career or continue to knowingly place innocents in harms way - which is a conscious choice on her part.
Of course there are more ways to deal with dangerous ex's...
LOL! Chill out lady-you'll have a stroke. I would swear in the opening post I mentioned something about the school wanted everyone safe......maybe I didn't....oh wait....here it is! "While I can appreciate the school's concern for the safety of the students and others at the school..." The teacher didn't bring her business to the school-her ex-husband did. That's why he's in jail.
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kent
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Post by kent on Jun 13, 2013 0:18:09 GMT -5
Nonsense! She didn't "bring" this to the school, HE did. What kind of person is she? How about the word "victim?" Change her career to what? Anywhere she goes as long as this nutcase is around it will put somebody in danger. Zib, quit beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel. Yes, you did say that Tenn - sometimes people read too rapidly and miss things.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 13, 2013 0:27:40 GMT -5
Another case where the victim pays a heavier price than the victimizer. While I can understand the school's concern, and I can understand the parents' concern, this woman has done absolutely nothing wrong; yet, she's lost her job and has no way to support her children. There's gotta be a better mousetrap in here somewhere. This just isn't right.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jun 13, 2013 1:07:28 GMT -5
That's utter bullsh*t!!!! if I ever heard it. I am a survivor of domestic abuse - and there's no way to know if, when, or where an abuser is going to show up if that abuser isn't already locked up.
I spent nearly 6 years looking over my shoulder until that %$&(#%* died.
This teacher didn't "bring this kind of crap to the school" - and she certainly doesn't know if there will be trouble and purposely place kids (or even other adults) at risk. Abusers are unpredictable - and you don't know if or where they might show up if they happen to be intent on doing anything at any given time.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 1:58:54 GMT -5
The school is wrong. Many states have laws against penalizing the victim of domestic violence. They also violated her right to privacy by naming her and her children.
You'll get all up in arms about the danger to your children that you KNOW about. How about the stuff you don't know about? If a student sexually molests someone but is out of juvenile detention awaiting trial, they can return to school. The school is not allowed to tell anyone but the staff about it. They have to put a safety plan in place to ensure the other students' safety, meaning the alleged offender has to monitored every second of the day while at school. It is difficult to do & they will lose track of the kid eventually, even if for a moment. I guess this is really relegated to public school, where the child has a right to be educated and is innocent until proven otherwise. Private school can probably eject the kid.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jun 13, 2013 5:53:13 GMT -5
I agree with mmhm. I also think it is socially unconsionable to hold her and esp her kids responsible for the actions of her ex. This is why we have public schools and should not have public funding of private schools (vouchers)
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 13, 2013 6:19:01 GMT -5
As a person, I feel for this woman. As a parent, i would not want my children involved in a situation like this. I will say that this will probably convince others in the same position to not inform their employers.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 13, 2013 6:25:51 GMT -5
As a person, I feel for this woman. As a parent, i would not want my children involved in a situation like this. I will say that this will probably convince others in the same position to not inform their employers. Around here, once cops are involved it makes the police blotter of the newspaper. If she didn't tell, odds are the parents or administration would find out anyway.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 13, 2013 6:32:53 GMT -5
I will say that this will probably convince others in the same position to not inform their employers. Around here, once cops are involved it makes the police blotter of the newspaper. If she didn't tell, odds are the parents or administration would find out anyway. Prbably here too but I can see people thinking if they are going to get terminated for telling they will take their chances. From their point of view they don't really have anything to lose.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 13, 2013 7:19:57 GMT -5
If she was teaching at a private school, she wasn't making any money anyway but was doing it for the free tuition for her children since public schools in CA aren't known to be all that great regardless of how much money and fancy new buildings are thrown at them. So now she also has to come up with private school tuition on her own. I hope another school picks her up and I hope her ex never sees freedom again. Those jerks belong in jail. Permanently. If they let him out, he will go after her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 8:23:18 GMT -5
the private school did compensate her for the rest of the year
they are done
they terminated her employment
if i am principal of that school, i do the same thing
i understand her dilemma, but it isnt the school's fault either
1. she can try to find employment at a different school
2. she can relocate, and leave her dirt bag husband rotting in a jail cell there
3. she can go off the grid with her kids.....there are organizations out there who specialize in these things....
I understand none of these are easy....
She may have to leave family/friends behind.....or change careers
There is no easy answer to this....but the school is out of the picture.....and they should be
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 8:27:34 GMT -5
While it sucks the school is not in the wrong... At least legally. Remember this is a private school, not a public one.
She was put on paid leave till her contract was up; then they decided to not renew her contract.
It sucks and I do feel for her, but the school also have to take the other kids and parents into consideration. He came to the school already, what to tell you he won't come back once he is released? And what if this time he brings a gun or knife?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 13, 2013 8:46:04 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the chilling fall out of this is that domestic violence victims will feel a greater need to hide this abuse from others, even more so.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 13, 2013 8:55:39 GMT -5
Private schools can pretty much do what they want. I can also understand how they felt and why they took the position they did.
BUT I agree this sends the message to all abuse victims to keep your trap shut.
I could never figure out why victims don't come forward till my pediatrician was charged with pedophilia. People around me are saying HORRIBLE nasty things about his son and granddaughter and his son's practice is being ruined by association and people who are pissed he turned his father in.
Now I get it. It's like being victimized all over again. I know I wouldn't want to have to get thru the throngs of idiots with picket signs or in the case of the OP lose my job.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jun 13, 2013 8:57:08 GMT -5
Life is unfair.
Under no circumstance would I ever allow someone else to decide it's ok to put my child in harm's way.
Is that what you're advocating for Tennesseer? Do you have children, would you want their teacher to have a violent ex known to violate court orders and trespass on school property?
And how exactly is any of this the school's fault? Yet you would have them be the ones to provide financial compensation.
By what reason?
This woman had NO BUSINESS bringing this kind of crap to a school. She made her problem the problem of a bunch of kids. She knew there would likely be trouble and decided to risk the kids anyway. What kind of person does that make her? Who tries to hid behind a bunch of kids?
It's too bad her ex is a psycho, but she may have to change her chosen career or continue to knowingly place innocents in harms way - which is a conscious choice on her part.
Of course there are more ways to deal with dangerous ex's...
Definitely. How dare this weak b*tch get her ass beaten by her deranged husband. What a c*nt. I don't usually agree with you, and that's fine. but you are spectacularly off-base here.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 13, 2013 8:58:20 GMT -5
Yep private schools can do whatever they want. My kids went to a strict Baptist school. They could fire you if they saw you at a resturant with an alcoholic beverage or going into a liquor store. My DD was a substitute teacher there and I saw her contract.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 13, 2013 9:30:58 GMT -5
The school was wrong. Dead wrong. Even if she hadn't been employed at that school there more than likely could have been an issue on school grounds because their CHILDREN GO THERE!
How is exactly is this her fault? Lets face reality for a second. Even if she was not teaching her ex could have shown up at the school because HER CHILDREN GO THERE!! What better way to find out your VICTIM than be there when she (or he) picks the kids up from school.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 9:34:06 GMT -5
I'm unclear on why they felt the need to terminate her if the x is in jail? It seems legally they (may have) had the right given the employment conditions, paid to end of contract and not renewed....But on another level it is disturbing as punishment of the victim of a crime. Also, what if she was being harassed by an ex boyfriend rather than an xh? What if it was a random stalker that she never dated/encouraged at all? I'm just really unclear on how someone is fired for another person's action? And once we go back down that road, how far do we go? I believe wether ex husband or ex boyfriend the decision would have been the same. Also: As a parent paying for a private education I would be annoyed if the school had to go into lockdown every time a teacher's ex showed up. And they were clear in their letter: Last per the article
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 13, 2013 9:40:53 GMT -5
The school was wrong. Dead wrong. Even if she hadn't been employed at that school there more than likely could have been an issue on school grounds because their CHILDREN GO THERE!
How is exactly is this her fault? Lets face reality for a second. Even if she was not teaching her ex could have shown up at the school because HER CHILDREN GO THERE!! What better way to find out your VICTIM than be there when she (or he) picks the kids up from school. Good point. We need to go through the rolls and kick out all the kids who have had domestic violence in their homes as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 9:44:55 GMT -5
I think the school was in the wrong, but I feel like they had their backs up against the wall. I'm sure they had parents calling nonstop to get this woman out of that school. I wouldn't have wanted to be the one to make the decision to fire her, but I think I would have done the same thing and wouldn't have gotten much sleep after that.
and I'm not even going to address the nonsense earlier in the thread.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 13, 2013 9:45:46 GMT -5
What about an abusive father of some of the students? Do you kick those students out and wash your hands of it?
FTR I don't want my kids to be in a situation where a teacher was being stalked/harassed/abused/etc, but more because I don't wish anyone to go through what their teacher must be going through and trying to do her job. If the school has a plan as to how to deal with it, the authorities are involved, etc, then I hope she would be allowed to continue to do her job. She shouldn't be victimized twice.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 13, 2013 9:46:37 GMT -5
Unfortunately, i dont' know what else the school should do instead? If they now know the situation, are they then obligated to act to prevent any possibility of a problem, no matter how remote?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 13, 2013 9:49:35 GMT -5
I'm unclear on why they felt the need to terminate her if the x is in jail? It seems legally they (may have) had the right given the employment conditions, paid to end of contract and not renewed....But on another level it is disturbing as punishment of the victim of a crime. Also, what if she was being harassed by an ex boyfriend rather than an xh? What if it was a random stalker that she never dated/encouraged at all? I'm just really unclear on how someone is fired for another person's action? And once we go back down that road, how far do we go? Rukh-this is near the bottom of the article that isn't in the opening post: "Charlesworth’s attorney Kenneth Hoyt, who intends to file a lawsuit on her behalf, said it may be an uphill climb because of something called "Ministerial Exception.” As part of her duties Charlesworth taught religion, and even though it was a small part of her daily lesson plan, there's legal precedence showing she can be fired without cause just like a priest or pastor." So the Catholic school (system) can terminate her employment for any reason.
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