Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 22, 2013 11:52:31 GMT -5
Steve, where are you getting that Rocky's dog is a "biter"? She only posted that the dog "snapped" at her. Any dog can bite. And I'd say in 99.9% of dog bite cases causing injury, immediately preceding the bite the owners would say "X is such a good dog, she'd never hurt anyone!" The entire point is that you don't know what can happen, especially when an animal is in a new/unfamiliar/stressful situation. I think being confined in a baby carriage in a restaurant (when the dog itself is not being fed) would qualify. I didn't even get a mark, honestly. But I was raised to respect all animals, even the friendly and well-behaved ones, and I continue to do so. Not respecting animals is how you get into trouble.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on May 22, 2013 11:58:29 GMT -5
Steve - to answer "how much trouble could you get in" - well, most people would probably assume you were mentally ill and ask you to leave. You would probably just find yourself unwelcome in all the restaurants in town.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 22, 2013 12:00:03 GMT -5
Steve, where are you getting that Rocky's dog is a "biter"? She only posted that the dog "snapped" at her. Any dog can bite. And I'd say in 99.9% of dog bite cases causing injury, immediately preceding the bite the owners would say "X is such a good dog, she'd never hurt anyone!" The entire point is that you don't know what can happen, especially when an animal is in a new/unfamiliar/stressful situation. I think being confined in a baby carriage in a restaurant (when the dog itself is not being fed) would qualify. 'Snap' means 'bite' or 'try to bite'. Would you want your child to be around that dog at a park if it (the dog) was not muzzled, knowing the dog bites or snaps at people? We dont know for a fact, that at lunch today, you want trip while talking and your teeth hit someone, causing puncture wounds. But, I think, you can go to lunch without that being a pressing worry. Assuming that with any dog, there is at least a .00001 chance for the dog to be in a bad mood, injured unkowningly, or startled, which is more worrisome for a parent? A dog on a leash with the owner in control and the parent able to decide themselves how to handle the interaction? Or a dog hidden away and unrestrained in a strange environment, stuck in what looks to a child like an inviting baby plaything? I'm going with Door Number Two.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 22, 2013 12:02:41 GMT -5
Steve, where are you getting that Rocky's dog is a "biter"? She only posted that the dog "snapped" at her. Any dog can bite. And I'd say in 99.9% of dog bite cases causing injury, immediately preceding the bite the owners would say "X is such a good dog, she'd never hurt anyone!" The entire point is that you don't know what can happen, especially when an animal is in a new/unfamiliar/stressful situation. I think being confined in a baby carriage in a restaurant (when the dog itself is not being fed) would qualify. 'Snap' means 'bite' or 'try to bite'. Would you want your child to be around that dog at a park if it (the dog) was not muzzled, knowing the dog bites or snaps at people? We dont know for a fact, that at lunch today, you wont trip while talking and your teeth hit someone, causing puncture wounds. But, I think, you can go to lunch without that being a pressing worry. At least when someone takes their child to the park they anticipate dogs will be there. They take precautions on keeping their child away from animals, etc. because they realize animals might bite. They don't got to restaurants expecting dogs to be hidden in baby carriages. A child could easily run up to a baby carriage and try to see the baby because kids are curious like that... Imagine the surprise when they run over and find a full grown lab. Are there strollers even big enough for a full grown lab . My dad's lab barely fits in the back seat. ETA: Rocky beat me to it and she said it better
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 22, 2013 12:07:05 GMT -5
I would say a dog in a enclosed stroller is less likely to hurt someone then a dog on a leash capable of lunging, if both dogs are equally trained. Which dog would you think is more likely to bite someone, a dog with a history of snapping at people when startled or a dog with no history of snapping at people? You havent answered the question, do you muzzle your dog when it is around other people or do you let them be at risk of startling the dog and being bitten? You raise biters, by your own admission. So I hope you muzzle your puppy. Oh, right, you can tell the future and control all events. Sorry. I forgot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 12:10:17 GMT -5
My dog has been startled when sleeping, dragged around by toddlers, had her ears pulled, her food taken away while she was eating, been laid on, stepped on and sat on by bigger dogs. The most she has ever done is whelp for help and run. A dog snapping at it's owner just because it is startled is not normal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 12:14:16 GMT -5
and should be muzzled when around strangers or children.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 22, 2013 12:15:29 GMT -5
Don't worry, honey, my dog is very much under my control around others. She is a well-behaved rescue dog, but yes, I do take proper precautions around other people, especially children, strangers, and other dogs. I don't assume that I know everything, and I respect her as an animal as much as I have always respected all my animals.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 12:17:57 GMT -5
You're really good at being a bitch with the honey thing.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 22, 2013 12:18:47 GMT -5
Thanks, I work on being a bitch on Wednesdays.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 22, 2013 12:22:16 GMT -5
Nice try, but I'm not going to continue debating this pointless exercise. We clearly disagree and I'm okay with that.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 22, 2013 12:22:17 GMT -5
Balderdash, she bites. She is not under your control and she is not well-behaved. She bites. That is a huge assumption to make about someone (and their dog) which you have never met or interacted with on a personal level.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 12:24:43 GMT -5
Thanks, I work on being a bitch on Wednesdays. Be proud. You are successful. On some Mondays too.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 22, 2013 12:36:21 GMT -5
Thanks, I work on being a bitch on Wednesdays. Be proud. You are successful. On some Mondays too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 12:47:28 GMT -5
Really, Steve? Really? We are really on 5 pages of "can I pretend my dog's a baby and sneak him into a restaurant"?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 13:34:01 GMT -5
It's not his fault! If everyone had just agreed with him this would have been done in 4 or 5 posts.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on May 22, 2013 14:03:48 GMT -5
My dog has been startled when sleeping, dragged around by toddlers, had her ears pulled, her food taken away while she was eating, been laid on, stepped on and sat on by bigger dogs. The most she has ever done is whelp for help and run. A dog snapping at it's owner just because it is startled is not normal. Your dog sounds abused and you should be reported to the humane society. And you suck as a dog mom. How was that for bitchy Wednesday? <<waits for gold star>>
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on May 22, 2013 14:04:59 GMT -5
We're not talking about some idiot owner, we are talking about me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 14:13:24 GMT -5
And I didn't mention the day she got shocked by an electric fence and I took her with me to watch fireworks. Yes, I mean on the same day. Ya gotta be tough to hang out at my place.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 22, 2013 14:22:02 GMT -5
Because resturants are full of strange sounds and smells. Because getting a baby carriage through a closed door without bumping it is almost impossible. Because, in all likelihood, somebody at the restaurant will bump the carriage or some kid will run up to it and try to look at the 'baby'.
I've had 3 exceptionally good natured, marathon sleeper children who regularly sleep though thunderstorms, screaming matches, turning the lights on and off, etc. None of them have ever stayed asleep in in a carriage in a restaurant.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 22, 2013 14:28:50 GMT -5
Where was that attitude when people were saying that a dog couldn't be counted on to sleep for about an hour while in a baby carriage in a restaurant
It's a lab. Labs don't do sitting/lying still for an hour, especially in a place where there is food.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 22, 2013 14:45:42 GMT -5
My dog has been startled when sleeping, dragged around by toddlers, had her ears pulled, her food taken away while she was eating, been laid on, stepped on and sat on by bigger dogs. The most she has ever done is whelp for help and run. A dog snapping at it's owner just because it is startled is not normal. Your dog sounds abused and you should be reported to the humane society. And you suck as a dog mom. How was that for bitchy Wednesday? <<waits for gold star>> Bitchy Wednesday it is!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 20:39:22 GMT -5
I didn't say you said it was a good idea. Just that the thread would have been shorter if people had agreed with you. And I was mostly being a smart ass.
As for my serious response about dog germs and biting dogs I mostly agree with you. The problem with dogs in restaurants is that it is impossible to ensure that only good owners and dogs frequent the place. Then you have dogs that aren't properly house trained or socialised. They are the problem. If there was some way to make sure they wouldn't come in too I'd be totally fine with it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 21:12:40 GMT -5
There's still that whole thing millee pointed out about never getting laid again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 21:18:17 GMT -5
It's not his fault! If everyone had just agreed with him this would have been done in 4 or 5 posts. I dont think I ever said it was a good idea. I just argued that first off no one would die from it, and second off I think some dogs could lie there and be good for an hour. Some said that people could die from stray dog germs, which I think is ridiculous. Others said a dog in a restaurant is almost certainly going to bite someone, which I think is equally ridiculous. As far as a lab being unable to be still for an hour, I would suggest that people google "breed of service dog' and they will see labrador listed quite often. The last page was me poking someone who has a dog that bites her and she thinks the dog is well -behaved and under her control. If the behavior she wants is biting, then maybe so, other wise the dog needs some training. So what, you're just trolling?
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justme
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Post by justme on May 22, 2013 21:18:20 GMT -5
Look - there are only a few ways to ensure the dog doesn't leave the baby carriage. 1) Drug the dog so it sleeps 2) attach it to around a 6" leash that prevents it from leaving the carriage 3) fashioning a plastic enclosure that would prevent the dog from just jumping out. Anything else risks the dog jumping out and getting at someone - a little sheet or something draped over the carriage will prevent NOTHING. Dogs have super powers that way - they can leap through sheets like it's a, well, a friggin sheet.
Given the 3 options to contain a dog in a baby carriage to ensure it cannot interact with any other patrons, all 3 are cruel and not something a good dog owner would do.
BTW - Since you harped on Rocky - do you muzzle your dog, since you're known to raise dogs that bite?
ETA: Training too, but that entirely depends upon not only the temperament of the breed but of the actual dog too. As Drama said - not ever dog makes the cut.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on May 22, 2013 21:22:52 GMT -5
Steve, I respect the fact that you pursue a value driven life. Your posts about your libertarian views and how they informed your decision to let an elderly gentleman live with you were a great demonstration of this to me.
At the same time, it seems kind of silly to use a value driven life to argue in favor of a fairly selfish act (however harmless/harmful it may be)... such as positing your dog as an infant for your own pleasure and convenience?
What is the underlying value system you are really arguing?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on May 22, 2013 21:41:26 GMT -5
Finally! I subject I know something about! There is NO DOG ON THE FACE OF THIS EARTH that anybody can guarantee 100% will never bite. My dog is extremely well behaved and well trained. However, he is a German Shepherd and his job is to protect his pack. If he felt I was threatened and I wasn't completely paying attention, he could very well try to protect me. He did, in fact, try to eat the dude at the pizza pick up window because he thought the guy reaching out toward me (to get my debit card) was trying to hurt me. However, I was paying attention and told him to stand down. He obeyed. Had I not stood him down, he would have done his best to take the guy's arm off. Cause that's his job as he sees it. If someone is truly trying to hurt me, he will hurt them badly. He weighs more than me and he can do one heck of a lot of damage.
For this reason, if we are going to the vet or somewhere he will be in a strange environment, I muzzle him. As confident as I am in his obedience, I would NEVER allow him to be around or alone with young children who could pull his tail, step on him or startle him without him being muzzled. A dog is a dog. And wanting to take a dog into a restaurant in a baby carriage is just....I won't say "dumb" because that's not nice....but I can't think of a better word. Now I surely don't think anybody would die or get sick. That's just about as ridiculous. But your dog would be in a strange environment with lots of different stimuli that he/she would not be used to. If, for no other reason, you are doing a disservice to your dog.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 22, 2013 22:24:32 GMT -5
Okay, so let me get this straight. You're too lazy to take the dog home in order to go out to eat, but you're NOT too lazy to drag along an empty stroller when you walk your dog, on the off-chance that you'll want to go out to eat afterward and have to hide the dog??
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on May 22, 2013 23:02:28 GMT -5
Okay, so let me get this straight. You're too lazy to take the dog home in order to go out to eat, but you're NOT too lazy to drag along an empty stroller when you walk your dog, on the off-chance that you'll want to go out to eat afterward and have to hide the dog?? And apparently it's too much trouble to find a place that actually allows dogs at their establishment. Yes, let's get a baby carriage and make ourselves look a bit "off" instead because that's such a better idea! That's normal, right? <---- Shades for Steve so nobody will recognize him when he does that.
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