is this wrong and how much trouble could I get in

[Opti]

Why don't you just leave her at home crated or un-crated?

[Deleted]

I don't think restaurants make no pet rules just for themselves? I would guess there are sanitation issues. I wouldn't do it, myself. 

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

That's not really the point, hon.  Service animals are necessary for the customer who is disabled to have proper access to the business.  The rest of our animals aren't necessary, and therefore subject to being kept out for sanitation reasons.  Service animals essentially receive a waiver to aid the disabled owner.  Once they invent sufficient service robots to help the disabled, service animals probably won't be allowed either. 

[Opti]

Service dogs are trained and unlikely to bolt through a restaurant(never seen one there actually) or a grocery store into the kitchen or back rooms. If your dog panics, trips people, gets an asthmatic to have an attack, etc. what would be your plan?

[constanz22]

May 21, 2013 7:56:25 GMT -5 @steve said:

May 21, 2013 7:53:49 GMT -5 oped said:

I don't think restaurants make no pet rules just for themselves? I would guess there are sanitation issues. I wouldn't do it, myself. 

My dog is as clean as a service dog.

I think how "dog friendly" businesses are is pretty regional. I've traveled to some areas where people take their dogs everywhere and businesses welcome them. Where I live in the NE, not so much

I used to take my Maltese a lot of places in an enclosed bag. Don't think I ever took him to a restaurant though.

I totally hear you and agree that my dogs are cleaner than half the kids I see in public, with filthy hands, snotty face and a full soggy/dirty diaper, but THEY are allowed to be in any store/restaurant...

[Deleted]

I sense Steve is posing an ethical question based on the Disney thing..

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

What Disney thing? 

[constanz22]

May 21, 2013 8:02:19 GMT -5 Opti said:

Service dogs are trained and unlikely to bolt through a restaurant(never seen one there actually) or a grocery store into the kitchen or back rooms. If your dog panics, trips people, gets an asthmatic to have an attack, etc. what would be your plan?

Then I guess all restaurants shouldn't be allowed to serve anything that someone may be allergic to...no more seafood!

I am very allergic to cigarette smoke so it should be banned everywhere, I guess! Actually it is banned in all restaurants and bars now in NY. Best law ever!

[dannylion]

I expect your dog would be better behaved than many children people are allowed to inflict on other diners.  Unfortunately, unless you could get the dog certified as a service animal (which I think would be a lengthy and possibly expensive process), the idea is likely doomed.  Some busybody would want to see and coo over the baby, and no amount of insisting it was just a very ugly baby would suffice to convince anyone except the extremely stupid or the terminally gullible (of which, one has to admit, there is no shortage).  Also, think about how the poor dog would feel being stuffed into a stroller and parked under a table while surrounded by lovely food smells and unfamiliar noises and activity.  It would likely be more than even the best-behaved dog could bear with equanimity. 

Are there any dog-friendly eating establishments in your area?  Around here, many restaurants with outdoor seating areas allow dogs there but not inside. 

Or you could move to Luxembourg.  They allow dogs in restaurants there. 

[Opti]

May 21, 2013 8:11:34 GMT -5 constanz22 said:

May 21, 2013 8:02:19 GMT -5 Opti said:

Service dogs are trained and unlikely to bolt through a restaurant(never seen one there actually) or a grocery store into the kitchen or back rooms. If your dog panics, trips people, gets an asthmatic to have an attack, etc. what would be your plan?

Then I guess all restaurants shouldn't be allowed to serve anything that someone may be allergic to...no more seafood!

I am very allergic to cigarette smoke so it should be banned everywhere, I guess! Actually it is banned in all restaurants and bars now in NY. Best law ever!

My question is valid. WW Steve Do? I personally do avoid certain businesses because of cigarette and cigar smoke because I like breathing without being sick. Most service dogs are short-hair and less likely to cause allergy issues. Living in NJ I wouldn't expect to encounter a dog inside a restaurant. This time of year though in an outside seating area yes.

There are asthmatics and on rare occasions people toting oxygen showing up at restaurants.
WWYD is your dog caused issues for them? WWYD if they sued you for medical costs? Your dog gets loose, trips someone with a cane and they break their hip. I can forsee a bunch of unpleasant things that are far more pricey than the restaurant getting angry with you. Plus some people are deathly afraid of dogs. Dogs are usually allowed visits at the nursing & rehab center I work at PT but that was suspended when we had a patient who was deathly afraid of dogs. Being safe in her room wasn't enough and I don't think size mattered as most the dogs that visit inside the facility tend to be small. Most owners with larger dogs have the patient come outside to see them or have them just look to the parking lot.

[hoops902]

I think the bigger issue in THIS case is that unlike seafood, cigarettes, etc...people can reasonably plan for those things.  People cannot reasonably plan for someone sneaking a dog into the restaurant via a stroller. 

If I go into a restaurant with a cigarette smoke allergy, I can ensure they don't allow smoking.  Seafood allergy, I can ask about what's in the food.  If I have an issue with dogs, in GENERAL i could look around and see them, but if you're breaking the rules, I wouldn't know.

Completely ignoring that everyone says "oh my dog is so well behaved" right up until they bite someone.  Service dogs have far more training that most people's dogs.

[MarleyKeezy78]

Having a child that is severly allergic to dogs and cats (he will break out into hives and have a asthma attack) I don't like when people bring their pets into public spaces like that. It's one thing if you are outside or it's a legit service animal, but my kid doesn't need to have an attack because you want to put your dog in a grocery cart or whatever. Plus it's unsanitary   
I do however think if the place has a outdoor patio to eat or whatever that's fine. Animals are going to be outside and that is fine, you want them inside, let them in your own house. JMHO

[constanz22]

I will never buy the whole "dogs are unsanitary" thing. Humans carry far, far more germs than dogs, especially clean, well taken care of, immunized dogs. I said earlier, a child with filthy hands, a runny snotty nose and a leaking soiled diaper, IMO, is far more "unsanitary" riding in a cart, but nobody says they aren't allowed because they're "unsanitary".

[Deleted]

My kids don't shed.

[alabamagal]

Go to Europe. I spent some time in Switzerland, it was very common for people to bring their dogs to cafes and small resturants. Don't think in fancier resturants though. Of all the dogs I saw in resturants, I don't ever remember any of them ever barking or misbehaving.

I also remember one time riding in one of those cable car things going up a monutain. There was about 100 people packed into the car standing up, and 2 dogs were sitting around people's feet. I remember thinking that if they got spooked it would be a bad scene, but the dogs were more well behaved than the people.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2013 7:48:39 GMT -5 @steve said:

Maybe I would like to train my dog to sleep in a baby carriage so when I am out I could take her into restaurants with me instead of leaving her in the car or not going into a restaurant.    If the stroller was closed and no one could see then no one would ever know and no problem.  But what would happen if someone did find out, say she barked, could I get in much trouble or would I just be told to leave?  Could I be fined?  Obviously she would have to be well trained and not make herself known.

Thanks

Don't take it to a Chinese restaurant or you could be leaving with General Tso's dog on a plate.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2013 9:03:52 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

May 21, 2013 7:48:39 GMT -5 @steve said:

Maybe I would like to train my dog to sleep in a baby carriage so when I am out I could take her into restaurants with me instead of leaving her in the car or not going into a restaurant.    If the stroller was closed and no one could see then no one would ever know and no problem.  But what would happen if someone did find out, say she barked, could I get in much trouble or would I just be told to leave?  Could I be fined?  Obviously she would have to be well trained and not make herself known.

Thanks

Don't take it to a Chinese restaurant or you could be leaving with General Tso's dog on a plate.

[hoops902]

May 21, 2013 9:02:05 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Go to Europe. I spent some time in Switzerland, it was very common for people to bring their dogs to cafes and small resturants. Don't think in fancier resturants though. Of all the dogs I saw in resturants, I don't ever remember any of them ever barking or misbehaving.

I also remember one time riding in one of those cable car things going up a monutain. There was about 100 people packed into the car standing up, and 2 dogs were sitting around people's feet. I remember thinking that if they got spooked it would be a bad scene, but the dogs were more well behaved than the people.

Personally, I don't have a problem with a restaurant that allows dogs.  What I have a problem with is the idea that this restaurant doesn't allow dogs, the people patronizing it have an expectation that there are no dogs, and then someone sneaking one in. 

If I want to go to a restaurant that allows dogs and risk a dogbite incident, that's up to me.  But I feel like customers have a right to know what they're expecting.  Even with service dogs, i can see them.  It's the hiding of the dog that would concern me.

[midjd]

I think the "dogs are more sanitary than kids" argument really depends on the dog (and the kid).

My dog is a 100lb Newfoundland whose main hobbies are swimming in our creek (stirring up lots of mud), running through the woods, and rolling around on any poor squirrels or opossums who happen to be killed near our house. I brush her vigorously twice a week and wash her every month, but wouldn't bring her into a restaurant.

My sister's 4lb poodle - much different story. (Although I still think sneaking it in is wrong for the reasons Hoops mentioned).

[HoneyBBQ]

No. Just no.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Why is it okay to decide that you can take your dog where ever you please?  If dogs are welcome that is one thing, but if the business has a no pets/animal policy then you should honor it.

I'd get an endless amount of crap hurled my way if I took my toddler to a non-family friendly resturant. I'd be told it's the businesses right to not invite kids and people who eat there don't want kids around.

But "dogs are better than kids" so it makes it okay to violate that policy?

[Gardening Grandma]

Yes, it would be wrong.  In my state (and I suspect most others) it is illegal and if found out, the establishment would get a citation.  What would the consequences be for you?  It is really worth it to find out?

[Tiny]

Yes, what you want to do is wrong because it's cruel to the dog! Dog in a baby carriage - that's just wrong. You'll probably feel the need to put a bonnet on the poor dog... and then the next thing you know the dog will have a whole wardrobe - and then you'll be stage a 'marriage' so your dog can wear 'wedding attire'.

Why don't you just spend your time getting a doctor to write the letter that sez you need a 'service' dog for something anxiety - and then have your dog be that 'service' dog. The dog doesn't need special training - BUT hopefully the dog is well behaved has had some basic dog ettiquete training. You'll probably also need to provide proof that the dog is up to date on all it's shots and stuff... but you need that to take the dog to the dog park...

An added perk is that your dog could fly for free with you in the cabin of an airplane.

Another even easier option is to find the 'Dog Friendly' restaurants and then go there. I'm sure there are some - you'll probably have to sit on the "patio" or "garden" or other outside seating

[hoops902]

::Why don't you just spend your time getting a doctor to write the letter that sez you need a 'service' dog for something anxiety - and then have your dog be that 'service' dog.::

This isn't how service dogs work.  You might CALL it a service dog, but it's not recognized as an actual service dog if it doesn't have any training.  That doesn't mean the restaurant wouldn't allow you to have it, but you could probably call it a service dog without any papers at all and the restaurante wouldn't stop you.

[Tiny]

The problem I have with dogs in public areas like restaurants/bars/etc... is that most dog owners are controlled by their dogs - so they think it's cute when Fido jumps up on strangers or barks/growls at other people and/or dogs.

I'm thinking a bunch of dogs hanging out at a restaurant could erupt into chaos when two or more of them decide to 'rumble'. Have you ever seen two (or more dogs) have a 'fight'? Who pays the vet bills?

I usually see most dog owners paying alot of attention to their dogs when there are other dogs (or children) around - because you need to 'read' your dog - so you can disrupt any potential problems before they begin.

If you wouldn't enjoy a meal out with an unpredictable 2 year old child (that you had to keep an eye on and tend to)  - why would enjoy a meal while having to keep track of (and tend to)  your unpredictable dog??

I'm not saying that 2 year old children and dogs are EQUAL - I'm saying they are equally unpredictable.

[Tiny]

May 21, 2013 10:51:14 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::Why don't you just spend your time getting a doctor to write the letter that sez you need a 'service' dog for something anxiety - and then have your dog be that 'service' dog.::

This isn't how service dogs work.  You might CALL it a service dog, but it's not recognized as an actual service dog if it doesn't have any training.  That doesn't mean the restaurant wouldn't allow you to have it, but you could probably call it a service dog without any papers at all and the restaurante wouldn't stop you.

Yes, you are right about the definition of 'service dog'.   

I was thinking of an "Emotional Support Animal":


An Emotional Support Animal is a dog or other common domestic animal that provides theraputic support to a disabled or elderly owner through companionship, non-judgmental positive regard, affection, and a focus in life. If a doctor determines that a patient with a disabling mental illness would benefit from the companionship of an emotional support animal, the doctor write letters supporting a request by the patient to keep the ESA in "no pets" housing or to travel with the ESA in the cabin of an aircraft.

ESAs are not task trained like service dogs are. In fact little training at all is required so long as the animal is reasonably well behaved by pet standards. This means the animal is fully toilet trained and has no bad habits that would disturb neighbors such is frequent or lengthy episodes of barking. The animal should not pose a danger to other tenants or to workmen. But there is no requirement for fancy heeling or mitigating tasks since emotional support animals are not generally taken anywhere pets would not ordinarily go without permission (the exception being to fly in the cabin of an aircraft, even if the airline does not ordinarily accept pets).

So, it looks like an ESA wouldn't be allowed in a restaurant 

I learned something new today - I've seen ESA dogs on planes and at hotels/motels.  Just assumed you could push the envelope and have them accepted at restaurants/public transportation/etc.

[Tiny]

May 21, 2013 8:54:37 GMT -5 oped said:

My kids don't shed.

LOL!  All humans shed - hair and skin flakes - where do you think all that 'dust' comes from in your house? 

[Chocolate Lover]

And why, exactly, do you DESERVE to have your dog with you everywhere you go?  Allergies have been pointed out already and so has the fact that some people are quite afraid of any dog. So, what makes you more special than them that you should be allowed/encouraged to break the rules and take the dog anywhere you please?

[hoops902]

::I learned something new today - I've seen ESA dogs on planes and at hotels/motels. Just assumed you could push the envelope and have them accepted at restaurants/public transportation/etc. ::

I think the reality is that most places don't want the hassle.  So if you walked in and said "this is my service dog", most places would probably let you keep it there.  Even if that dog was there only for emotional support.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

May 21, 2013 11:02:41 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::I learned something new today - I've seen ESA dogs on planes and at hotels/motels. Just assumed you could push the envelope and have them accepted at restaurants/public transportation/etc. ::

I think the reality is that most places don't want the hassle.  So if you walked in and said "this is my service dog", most places would probably let you keep it there.  Even if that dog was there only for emotional support.

I'm guessing the establishment would probably want to avoid a potential lawsuit and not argue the point.