greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on May 21, 2013 11:16:22 GMT -5
::I learned something new today - I've seen ESA dogs on planes and at hotels/motels. Just assumed you could push the envelope and have them accepted at restaurants/public transportation/etc. :: I think the reality is that most places don't want the hassle. So if you walked in and said "this is my service dog", most places would probably let you keep it there. Even if that dog was there only for emotional support. I'm guessing the establishment would probably want to avoid a potential lawsuit and not argue the point. Exactly. It is my understanding that a business CAN'T ask why you have an animal or for any kind of proof due to privacy issues. I could be wrong, though.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 21, 2013 11:42:14 GMT -5
Steve, there's a difference between loving your pets and LOOVING your pets. Why is having your dog with you all the time worth breaking the rules, risking hurting other people, and possibly traumatizing your dog? <BR><BR>Yes, I take my kids shopping with me, but that's only because I'd get in trouble if I left them at home, not because I have some weird attachment where I can't possibly go anywhere without them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 12:01:43 GMT -5
LOL! All humans shed - hair and skin flakes - where do you think all that 'dust' comes from in your house?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 21, 2013 12:03:33 GMT -5
I'm guessing the establishment would probably want to avoid a potential lawsuit and not argue the point. Exactly. It is my understanding that a business CAN'T ask why you have an animal or for any kind of proof due to privacy issues. I could be wrong, though. Actually in restaurants that aren't advertised as pet friendly I'd be surprised if they didn't ask or ask you to leave. Many service dogs have the distinctive harness on them and are dogs of a certain size. I don't think you'd be able to pass off most small dogs or a St. Bernard as a service animal. As much as I love animals I don't want to go to restaurants and have to deal with people's dogs, guinea pigs(remember that story), etc.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on May 21, 2013 12:33:15 GMT -5
I usually see most dog owners paying alot of attention to their dogs when there are other dogs (or children) around - because you need to 'read' your dog - so you can disrupt any potential problems before they begin. My problem is that most dog owners are stupid when it comes to their dogs behavior. You describe the "good owner" who pay attention to what their dog is doing. Most dog owners tend to think- "my dog is good, therefore nothing bad will happen". They get distracted by whatever event they are at and forget to watch their dog. It only takes a second for something to happen. A child walk up and startle your dog, another dog to walk up. If you aren't willing to give your dog 100% attention- it should not be out in public. My most recent encounter was when I was out walking my dog the other night. I was a few blocks away from home when a loose dog started approaching. The owner was in the yard and yells " he's friendly don't worry". I yelled back " Mine may not be." He called to his dog , (took three calls for the dog to respond), and the dog was nearly hit by a car that was just turning onto the street. Idiot.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on May 21, 2013 12:39:29 GMT -5
Exactly. It is my understanding that a business CAN'T ask why you have an animal or for any kind of proof due to privacy issues. I could be wrong, though. Actually in restaurants that aren't advertised as pet friendly I'd be surprised if they didn't ask or ask you to leave. Many service dogs have the distinctive harness on them and are dogs of a certain size. I don't think you'd be able to pass off most small dogs or a St. Bernard as a service animal. As much as I love animals I don't want to go to restaurants and have to deal with people's dogs, guinea pigs(remember that story), etc. Dogs are being increasing used for various services. Autism, diabetes, even epilepsy. Some are more ESA, then medical. But they can come in almost any breed- though some breeds are more common than others. That where it gets sticky. An establishment can't ask and more and more people are passing their dogs off as service animals. I wish that they would come up with a registry. If your autistic child needs his little JRT to function. I have no problem with it. But I think the doctors should show the need, the dog needs extensive obedience training, and it should be required to wear a jacket when on the job. It would alleviate alot of the problems with people passing their dogs off as service animals.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 21, 2013 12:47:39 GMT -5
Most dog owners cross the street to get away from me when I'm pushing my kid's stroller. I tend to freak out a bit in that situation and I guess it shows. And I have the nicest neighbors.
I've been to many pet friendly places before I had kids, and I must admit that I never saw any sign of trouble. They were very nice dogs. But they were also places where you don't expect to see children.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 12:50:04 GMT -5
You know what I meant speck
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milee
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Post by milee on May 21, 2013 12:53:47 GMT -5
If you aren't willing to give your dog 100% attention- it should not be out in public. My most recent encounter was when I was out walking my dog the other night. I was a few blocks away from home when a loose dog started approaching. The owner was in the yard and yells " he's friendly don't worry". I yelled back " Mine may not be." He called to his dog , (took three calls for the dog to respond), and the dog was nearly hit by a car that was just turning onto the street. Idiot. I had a very close call a few weeks ago while running through a neighborhood. There was a man talking on a cell phone and walking a mid-large sized dog on the sidewalk. Since he didn't seem to hear me as I approached from behind (has to be deaf, I'm not exactly a quiet runner), I didn't want to startle him and gave them a wide berth by circling around into the empty street. As I came up beside them, but about 20' away in the street, the dog suddenly lunged for me, pulling the rectractable leash out as he lunged. The owner dropped the cell phone and hauled on the dog with both hands and it came about 6" away from taking a big chunk out of my leg. It was so close, I could feel it's breath and it splattered my running tights with spit. Instead of apologizing, the owner was angry with me. I really like dogs, but do think unfortunately there are owners who can't be trusted to be responsible so it's safer in general to not allow the dogs at businesses.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 21, 2013 13:02:35 GMT -5
LOL - I took my kids to the store with me the other day. They were a nightmare. I wish I had a well behaved dog with me, and I suspect that half the people in the store wished I was with a rapid pitbull or something. Good thing Paul wasn't there, he would have gone to the wooden spoon section and gave my kids and me the business!
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milee
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Post by milee on May 21, 2013 13:12:04 GMT -5
OK, so I'll answer your question, Steve. If you start taking your dog around in a baby carriage the consequence to you is that you would have no possibility of getting laid ever again.
Weren't you looking for a girlfriend just a little while ago? When women see a man with a dog in a baby carriage, they assume the man is gay or has mental issues. Don't be that guy.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on May 21, 2013 13:13:15 GMT -5
My whole plan relies on stealth, so if the dog was making noises or even seen the plan wouldnt work. If she is enclosed in a baby carriage, then she cant bite anyone who isnt reaching into the baby carriage. A fly screen or whatever it is that covers baby carriages would keep her from being able to lunge out, but really any well trained dog would not be lunging out. The plan relies on the dog being well trained. I dont want to take her every where I go. I would like when I take her to the park with my family to be able to go have lunch out afterwards. What would be the consequences of getting caught? I think the most likely way to get caught is being seen putting the dog into the stroller. Pack a picnic. Eat outside at the park. Problem solved. I have 3 dogs and used to be heavily involved in dog rescue, so I love fur-babies, but they do NOT need to do into a restaurant with you. That's gross, unsanitary, and just plain weird.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 21, 2013 13:15:57 GMT -5
You know what I meant speck Yes, I know what you meant... I wasn't poking at you just taking the "don't shed" thing to a 'stupid level' in an attempt at humor. That's what the LOL! Was meant to convey. Besides, household dust is filled with stuff from outerspace, leftover dinosour bits floating around in the air (and on the bottom of our shoes) - along with some skin flakes and hair from the human (and animal) inhabitants. Oh, yeah and there's all the left over bits from the uggie buggies (spiders? housecentipedes? those ladies bugs and june bugs and flies that got in last summer). LOL! how gross is that? Dust is a whole cornicopia of 'stuff'. My cats remind me of this 'fact' every week when I sweep/vacummn the house - when I start implying that they are the cause of all the 'stuff' on the floor. If I could just get them to do a little light housework while I'm at work, our lives would be so much better (well, mine would be).
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on May 21, 2013 13:23:34 GMT -5
What would be the consequences of getting caught? I think the most likely way to get caught is being seen putting the dog into the stroller. I would hope that someone would press charges for animal cruelty for putting it in a stroller.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 21, 2013 13:38:48 GMT -5
Consequences?
The business could be fined by the Health Department. It's unlikely that they'll want to eat that fine (no pun intended) so it will probably be passed along to you.
Not worth it, IMO.
FDA Food Code Section 2-403.11 governs animals in restaurants. Except for the service animal exception (and even in that case, there are strict handwashing requirements) and fish in tanks, animals are prohibited. Some states have relaxed these requirements to permit pets in outdoor dining areas only.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on May 21, 2013 13:42:09 GMT -5
If you could train the dog to lift peoples' wallets while you distract them with long, boring stories that don't go anywhere, then I'm all for it! If not, well, that's just weird.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 21, 2013 13:59:23 GMT -5
Eat at restaurants with outside patios.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 21, 2013 14:29:04 GMT -5
I think the right question is why do you think that the rules should not apply to you? What makes you a more special snowflake than all the other diners in the room?
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 21, 2013 14:37:48 GMT -5
OK, so I'll answer your question, Steve. If you start taking your dog around in a baby carriage the consequence to you is that you would have no possibility of getting laid ever again. Weren't you looking for a girlfriend just a little while ago? When women see a man with a dog in a baby carriage, they assume the man is gay or has mental issues. Don't be that guy. Yep, and that. I've seen women jogging around and riding bikes with small dogs in carriages, but that little bit of weirdness can be written off as fulfilling their desire to have a baby. A dude doing something like that would be a whole other class of weird.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on May 21, 2013 14:42:20 GMT -5
Please don't make the dog wear a hat. Or clothes. That's just wrong. Unless it's a hoody. Dogs look cool in hoodies.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 21, 2013 14:48:09 GMT -5
Eat at restaurants with outside patios.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 21, 2013 14:48:48 GMT -5
No, you're not a rebel. You're a sneaker. A rebel would stroll into the diner with your dog and to hell with the consequences, because the rules are wrong and you're going to show them. Hiding a dog in a baby carriage is pretty much slinking around.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 21, 2013 15:05:56 GMT -5
If you believe the rules about animals in restaurants are right, why would you be going to such lengths to try to avoid following them? If you believe they are wrong, why would you be trying so hard to hide what you're doing? Either have some balls and stand up for things, or accept the rules as others are. I don't get all this sneaking around to have it both ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 15:09:22 GMT -5
If you believe the rules about animals in restaurants are right, why would you be going to such lengths to try to avoid following them? If you believe they are wrong, why would you be trying so hard to hide what you're doing? Either have some balls and stand up for things, or accept the rules as others are. I don't get all this sneaking around to have it both ways. He wants other people to follow the rules though. Their dogs would be really annoying. So he likes the rule for them. Just not for him.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 21, 2013 15:23:56 GMT -5
It doesn't hurt anyone until it finally does. The rules aren't there because every single animal in a restaurant will cause an incident/reaction/etc, it's because one of them finally will. So you could equally say that it's okay to run every single red light you come across as long as you don't hit anyone directly. It'll be fine until the one time it isn't, which is why we all agree communally to the traffic rules. We can all be cavalier about things that don't bother us (like dogs in restaurants), but we live in a communal society where our rights end where the next person's begin.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 21, 2013 15:53:10 GMT -5
I often run red lights on my motorcylce. I will stop at a red light and the weight of the motorcycle or the sensor will not see the motorcylce. I would end up at a light that doesnt sense anything therefore doesnt change. So I look both ways and run the red light. Please don't do this. I like you and don't want you to die. In the US, there are no weight sensors used for traffic detection. Most intersections are on timers or have optical detection or a loop detector. If the intersection is on timer or has an optical detector, no need to worry about not getting a green eventually. If you see what looks like a rectangle cut into the pavement, then it's an inductive loop detector. Sometimes the traffic guys will set the detectors on "low" sensitivity if there are issues with the installation and if that's the case, you need to just roll your bike up until it straddles one of the cuts in the rectangle. That way you'll be right over the loop and have the best chance of getting detected even if it's on "low" sensitivity.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on May 21, 2013 15:57:47 GMT -5
I often run red lights on my motorcylce. I will stop at a red light and the weight of the motorcycle or the sensor will not see the motorcylce. I would end up at a light that doesnt sense anything therefore doesnt change. So I look both ways and run the red light. Please don't do this. I like you and don't want you to die. In the US, there are no weight sensors used for traffic detection. Most intersections are on timers or have optical detection or a loop detector. If the intersection is on timer or has an optical detector, no need to worry about not getting a green eventually. If you see what looks like a rectangle cut into the pavement, then it's an inductive loop detector. Sometimes the traffic guys will set the detectors on "low" sensitivity if there are issues with the installation and if that's the case, you need to just roll your bike up until it straddles one of the cuts in the rectangle. That way you'll be right over the loop and have the best chance of getting detected even if it's on "low" sensitivity. Or you could just ride with a FAT CHICK on the back. Problem solved. Other problems attained.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 21, 2013 15:58:13 GMT -5
::A dog in a enclosed baby carriage isnt going to hurt anyone. ::
Yeah, until someone has an allergic reaction to a dog they had no expectation would be there, or the dog's germs spreads to someone's food, or the dog gets loose and bites someone.
::If you think some rules really dont accomplish much and breaking them works for you then I would suggest you break those rules and deal with the consequences.::
So you think sneaking your dog into a restaurant "works for you", and what happens when thsoe consequences are that it disfigures a child by biting it, or sends someone to the hospital with an allergic reaction or by spreading germs?
I'm all for "if my actions don't hurt anyone, then who cares", the problem is you're applying it to a scenario where your actions could indeed hurt someone and simply burying your head in teh sand in pretending that they don't.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 21, 2013 16:02:18 GMT -5
You want to stick a lab in a baby carriage and keep it quiet in there for an indeterminate amount of time while you eat food nex to it. We own a lab, all I can say is. . good luck with that
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milee
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Post by milee on May 21, 2013 16:03:43 GMT -5
Please tell me you're not one of those people who thinks all rules should be followed. You haven't been reading my posts if you think I'm a person that thinks all rules should be followed. I just think that when you're on a motorcycle you're particularly vulnerable and that's not a time when I take chances like that just to save a few minutes' time. I miss my bike terribly, but there's no way I'd ride one now that we live in Florida with all the tourists and octogenarians driving around. It's all about risk/reward. And Bob Ross wasn't reading my posts, either if he thinks extra weight on the bike makes any difference. Again, none of the detectors are weight sensitive - they're either optical or they detect the metal.
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