Sucky work situation

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 8:30:01 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

May 8, 2013 7:48:28 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

That is fine.     But this was specifically a work party for the team, not just a bunch of friends getting together.

unless work was paying for it and every single person at the company was invited, it was not a work party.

I disagree and so does his company.

[Shooby]

So, now that the OP knows what is happening, then now is the time to put a greater wall of separation up between work and personal life.  Who needs the aggravation?

[swamp]

May 8, 2013 8:10:29 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

May 8, 2013 6:38:17 GMT -5 Waffle said:

Amazing Later, you managed to insult almost everybody with one hugely erroneous assumption. 

So be insulted. But that has often been the power dynamic in a workplace. Women or minorities have often needed the support of management to address a bullying situation.

For what it is worth I do not agree with characterizing the whistle blower as whiny. If management felt it was significant enough to address it not only with the culprit but also with MMC I believe it was sever enough to be reported. The one responsible for ruining everyone's good time is the drunk, offensive jerk.

Why do people feel the need to report all jerky behavior to HR, especially when it's off the clock?   People are sometimes jerks.

[Deleted]

Why do people feel the need to report all jerky behavior to HR, especially when it's off the clock? People are sometimes jerks.

Why do some people think they should be able to do what they want with no repurcussions?

[kittensaver]

::  Why do people feel the need to report all jerky behavior to HR, especially when it's off the clock?  ::

============================

Because they're probably smart (smarmy) enough to know that making a report would effectively kill off future parties, to which the complainer would no longer be invited after what happened. Problem solved! You diss me, I kill your fun

[swamp]

May 8, 2013 8:44:56 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Why do people feel the need to report all jerky behavior to HR, especially when it's off the clock? People are sometimes jerks.

Why do some people think they should be able to do what they want with no repurcussions?

We don't know the extent of the jerkiness.  Maybe it warranted a report, maybe the guy was just being an asshat.   It just seems really whiny to me to report a guy to HR for being a drunk jerk after hours. 

ETA:  I think the host has some responsibility in this.  If someone is being a drunk idiot at my party, it's my obligation to show them the door.  Provided I was told about it.  If the whiner didn't tell MMC and then told HR the next day, that was really childish. 

[swamp]

May 8, 2013 8:45:15 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

::  Why do people feel the need to report all jerky behavior to HR, especially when it's off the clock?  ::

============================

Because they're probably smart (smarmy) enough to know that making a report would effectively kill off future parties, to which the complainer would no longer be invited after what happened. Problem solved! You diss me, I kill your fun

YOu diss me, you don't get invited to the fun anymore.  Easy peasy.

[kittensaver]

May 8, 2013 8:48:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 8, 2013 8:45:15 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

::  Why do people feel the need to report all jerky behavior to HR, especially when it's off the clock?  ::

============================

Because they're probably smart (smarmy) enough to know that making a report would effectively kill off future parties, to which the complainer would no longer be invited after what happened. Problem solved! You diss me, I kill your fun

YOu diss me, you don't get invited to the fun anymore.  Easy peasy.

Yeah, too bad for MMC it didn't work out that way.

[Deleted]

I still don't understand why it was considered a work party or occurring on company time.  Maybe for the person who was on travel but what about everyone else?  are they on company time after hours?

[Formerly SK]

I'm mostly in the camp of "I can't believe he complained to HR."  That said, if the guy was crazy drunk and then did something really outlandish like tell the guy he was going to threaten a work project to make him look bad or something, I could see why the guy went to HR.  You said they have a history of animosity, and the guy was really drunk.  I don't know...I could see that there is a slight chance the reporting was valid.

Regardless, I don't see why you have to cancel the party going forward.  Just make sure you don't include either of the guys from this incident (traveling guy should be nixed because he gets loaded and acts like an ass on business trips).  Get some guys from outside work (neighbors, whatever) to join in.  That makes it a regular poker game, not a work function.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 9:02:22 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

I still don't understand why it was considered a work party

Because MMC said it was.

[Miss Tequila]

May 8, 2013 9:02:22 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

I still don't understand why it was considered a work party or occurring on company time.  Maybe for the person who was on travel but what about everyone else?  are they on company time after hours?

That is my issue.  My co-workers from my old firm would always get together for happy hours, parties, etc.  Not everyone was invited...just those of us that were friends.  I can't imagine that being considered a work function.  So if some idiot from another office happened to be in town and we invited him, it was suddenly a work function?  Not buying it.

Now, a company sponsored Christmas party (sorry, I guess I now much call it a Holiday Party so as not to offend!) is a different story

[Miss Tequila]

May 8, 2013 8:44:56 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Why do people feel the need to report all jerky behavior to HR, especially when it's off the clock? People are sometimes jerks.

Why do some people think they should be able to do what they want with no repurcussions?

There should be repurcussions if someone is a jerk...but not work-related repurcussions.  This was not sponsored by the company so HR or company management should not get involved.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 9:29:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 8, 2013 8:44:56 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Why do some people think they should be able to do what they want with no repurcussions?

There should be repurcussions if someone is a jerk...but not work-related repurcussions.  This was not sponsored by the company so HR or company management should not get involved.

So what are you suggesting? Should he beat him up? Had a big fight at MMC's party?

[swamp]

May 8, 2013 9:32:05 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

May 8, 2013 9:29:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

There should be repurcussions if someone is a jerk...but not work-related repurcussions.  This was not sponsored by the company so HR or company management should not get involved.

So what are you suggesting? Should he beat him up? Had a big fight at MMC's party?

No, that he be called on his inappropriate behavior and escorted to the door.

[Deleted]

 

No, that he be called on his inappropriate behavior and escorted to the door.

 

The insulted guest had no place to do that and MMC had no interest in doing that.

[Deleted]

it's this thing called handle the situation yourself or leave the party.  Do we really still need to run crying to Mommy when we are 30-40 years old?

[Deleted]

And my understanding it wasn't being at MMC's party that was the issues.

he was under the business travel policy which includes actions after business hours.

If the guy had done the same thing at a bar he wouls still be in trouble.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 9:36:18 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

it's this thing called handle the situation yourself or leave the party.  Do we really still need to run crying to Mommy when we are 30-40 years old?

The bottom line is when you work for a big company you will work with jerks.  You will work with people who go to HR.   You will work with people who back stab you.  You will work with people who will step on your neck to get ahead.  You will work with people who will sink their own careers with their actions and bring you down with them if you hook your wagon to theirs.

In MMC's position he needs to be willing to play the corporate game.   I'm sure he could join a small engineering firm with cool owners if he wants to be able to party with coworkers.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 9:35:04 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

 

No, that he be called on his inappropriate behavior and escorted to the door.

 

The insulted guest had no place to do that and MMC had no interest in doing that.

MMC was unaware of it....and the insulted guest most certainly could have called the other person on their bad behavior

[swamp]

May 8, 2013 9:35:04 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

 

No, that he be called on his inappropriate behavior and escorted to the door.

 

The insulted guest had no place to do that and MMC had no interest in doing that.

You can't speak up for yourself if someone insults you at a party? 

And MMC is part of the problem if he had no interest in asking a guy who is being a jerk to leave.  That's one of the responsibilities of hosting.

But I'm not sure about whether or not he had any interest.  Did he even know about it? 

And back to the beating up comment, sometimes, it would be nice to smack someone for being an ass............

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 9:39:53 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

May 8, 2013 9:36:18 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

it's this thing called handle the situation yourself or leave the party.  Do we really still need to run crying to Mommy when we are 30-40 years old?

The bottom line is when you work for a big company you will work with jerks.  You will work with people who go to HR.   You will work with people who back stab you.  You will work with people who will step on your neck to get ahead.  You will work with people who will sink their own careers with their actions and bring you down with them if you hook your wagon to theirs.

In MMC's position he needs to be willing to play the corporate game.   I'm sure he could join a small engineering firm with cool owners if he wants to be able to party with coworkers.

people suck.

[Deleted]

This individual had way too many shots of the 20 year old whiskey another individual brought.

As a host, I usually only care that people can safely get home. We are all adults 30-45 years old.

MMC was aware and didn't care.

[thyme4change]

I'm not exactly sure what happened, but the OP says that the offended person went to "management" not HR.  He might have gone to his boss and said "Hey, do me a favor - keep Mr. X out of my way for a few weeks.  He was a real jerk last night, and if I see him, I might punch him.  What he said was bad enough that I need to not work with him for a bit."  Maybe he didn't mean to rat him out at all, just trying to cool himself off enough that it didn't escalate in the office.  Granted, that isn't smart, but he might have thought it necessary.  And then, the boss, being a good guy, asked for more detail.  And then once he knew the story, he felt obligated to share it with someone else - and they decided to request the shut down MMC's gatherings to keep any further trouble at bay.  

MMC - was HR involved, or just a bunch of bosses that engineers view as people and mentors?

[HoneyBBQ]

May 7, 2013 22:48:32 GMT -5 @mmc said:

May 7, 2013 22:41:29 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

The whistle blower was a woman or minority and the offensive one was a white male probably around 30.

Whistle blower was white male in this 30's.  Offender is minority male in his 30's.

Better return that crystal ball you bought!

[thyme4change]

LOL - Later was close.  She just had it backwards.  I think my picture of what happened is even worse and more stereotypical racist (and offensive) than it was with her scenario.

[Deleted]

To clarify a few things:

1.  The company does not consider it a work event, but my boss cautioned me about having things that could be looked on by some as work events
2.  The individual was on travel and thus under a policy for conduct after hours
3.  I was not aware of a problem that night between anyone.  I was in the poker game the entire time
4.  I do not favor one over the other.
5.  The crowd was a mix of peers (like these guys), 2 of my direct reports, and 5 people from other teams.  No one felt forced or expected to attend. 
6.  One of my best friends is a peer at work.  She was there also that night.  While some of you might have a no-friend policy with coworkers, I have never subscribed to that.

[hoops902]

It seems like a lot of people are missing the point.  No one told MMC he couldn't have these parties, or that he was responsible.  He had a team member at the party who was under corporate travel policy.  Inviting that person who you work with to a party can fall under that corporate travel policy as you host them.  MMC has decided he likely will not hold these parties in the future due to the potential issues. 

::There should be repurcussions if someone is a jerk...but not work-related repurcussions. This was not sponsored by the company so HR or company management should not get involved.::

One of these people was under the corporate travel policy at the time.  This wasn't a random social outing.  They were specifically governed by a policy that oversees them while on company travel.  And perhaps as an extension of that, if MMC is a manager, hosting these people on business travel in his home may mean he needs to be careful what happens as he hosts them.

::I still don't understand why it was considered a work party ::

Likely because they had someone under corporate travel rules, who was invited to a party by a coworker, so corporate rules still apply to them.  I don't think anyone said it was a "work party" though, only that having functions as a manager he would need to be careful.

::unless work was paying for it and every single person at the company was invited, it was not a work party.::

This is not remotely the definition of a "work party" by any stretch of the imagination.  I work for a company of hundreds of thousands of employees, do you think the only work parties are those wehre everyone around the globe is invited to attend? 

[Deleted]

May 8, 2013 10:27:43 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I'm not exactly sure what happened, but the OP says that the offended person went to "management" not HR.  He might have gone to his boss and said "Hey, do me a favor - keep Mr. X out of my way for a few weeks.  He was a real jerk last night, and if I see him, I might punch him.  What he said was bad enough that I need to not work with him for a bit."  Maybe he didn't mean to rat him out at all, just trying to cool himself off enough that it didn't escalate in the office.  Granted, that isn't smart, but he might have thought it necessary.  And then, the boss, being a good guy, asked for more detail.  And then once he knew the story, he felt obligated to share it with someone else - and they decided to request the shut down MMC's gatherings to keep any further trouble at bay.  

MMC - was HR involved, or just a bunch of bosses that engineers view as people and mentors?

HR was consulted.  The manager delivered the news.  This is significant because it means HR didn't view it as serious enough to be directly involved.  If HR shows up at your door, then time to start filling the boxes.

[hoops902]

::3. I was not aware of a problem that night between anyone. I was in the poker game the entire time::

Hidden brag about being good at poker and not knocked out early like the others.