imawino
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 22:58:16 GMT -5
Posts: 5,362
|
Post by imawino on May 6, 2013 16:19:40 GMT -5
The guy in the OP is an auto mechanic. That is a far cry from a Walmart cashier. I'm not sure a Walmart cashier is relevant to this discussion.
|
|
imawino
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 22:58:16 GMT -5
Posts: 5,362
|
Post by imawino on May 6, 2013 16:20:49 GMT -5
The guy in the OP is an auto mechanic. That is a far cry from a Walmart cashier. I'm not sure a Walmart cashier is relevant to this discussion. F'inf missing post!!!!! I said: It came up in response to someone saying they didn't care whether their kids married brain surgeons or Walmart cashiers. Keep up. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on May 6, 2013 16:24:31 GMT -5
There is a big difference in earnings between a Walmart cashier and an air conditioning repair technician, or a plumber. Okay, I might be a little more vocal against a Walmart cashier - but how would you feel about a tradesman that makes a respectable living using a quality skill set? I prpbably won't have too many issues. Come on, show me some skills! I am sure lots of Walmart cashiers are wonderful people, but how much intellect does it take to scan groceries? And I don't even mind if its done as a temp job. But if a 30 year old guy/girl does that for a living...you bet I would be questioning their intellect and their drive. Wow. I know some great people who have "menial" jobs and i also know some lousy people who have great jobs. Sorry, i don't box people up that way.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on May 6, 2013 16:24:56 GMT -5
I also think it depends on the person who is mechanic. If you make decent money, you tend (may be not YM crowd, but general population) to buy and do certain things. Would a mechanic be comfortable in that type of environment?
Just as I can not envision my life in a some ghetto, I can't really envision it in a million dollar house with a maid and a pool boy and a butler
Marrying someone from a different level can entail a lot of different things.
|
|
swasat
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 9:34:28 GMT -5
Posts: 3,735
|
Post by swasat on May 6, 2013 16:25:48 GMT -5
I prpbably won't have too many issues. Come on, show me some skills! I am sure lots of Walmart cashiers are wonderful people, but how much intellect does it take to scan groceries? And I don't even mind if its done as a temp job. But if a 30 year old guy/girl does that for a living...you bet I would be questioning their intellect and their drive. Wow. I know some great people who have "menial" jobs and i also know some lousy people who have great jobs. Sorry, i don't box people up that way. Good for you!!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 2:18:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 16:50:13 GMT -5
Wow. I know some great people who have "menial" jobs and i also know some lousy people who have great jobs. Sorry, i don't box people up that way. Shooby, I understand your point very well. friend ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/cool.png) That's very good point by the way. A title doesn't mean they have an intellectual curiosity nor A good human being as A person. My point's when there's gap in intellect more often than not it can create havoc in marriage. In my opinion it's more harmful than not having a enough money or importance of equal partnership(money). The long term marriage like well you know of it require many things.... But when there's nothing to talk about between two involving party it can create harmful situation in marriage. One can't understand what another is saying it can create silence. I think everyone knows some instances "silence is not golden" in marriage . ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png)
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,881
|
Post by Tennesseer on May 6, 2013 16:58:00 GMT -5
There are two sides to a story. Whilst the parents are thinking their little angel is marrying beneath her. Her boyfriend's parents are thinking he is marrying beneath him....and nothing could be good enough for their prince. Whatever...the choice is their own. Maybe money isn't that important to them. You have to let them live their lives..... My lovely daughter has a great boyfriend...except he has red hair and I'm trying to envision red haired grandchildren someday and what colour ribbons do I buy. All sorts goes through your mind when you let go of your most beloved. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) Gingers. ![](http://images.proboards.com/v5/images/smiley/sad.png) . I do hope you know I was kidding. You 'liked' the post so I think you do know.
|
|
8 Bit WWBG
Administrator
Your Money admin
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 8:57:29 GMT -5
Posts: 9,322
Today's Mood: Mega
|
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 6, 2013 16:59:41 GMT -5
I like how DQ has summed it up. If it was my kid, the central issue would be whether or not he/she has a reasonable grasp of what struggles come with marrying someone who has significantly lower earning potential, and/or stagnant ambition.
Hopefully it won't be an issue, because I plan to always teach my kids that they are entitled to their opinions, but they have to understand that the rest of the world may not be as supportive or kind. People will pick on you for a variety of reasons -- valid or not, and its something you are going to have to deal with.
Sure, some seemingly unambitious people can end up doing very well for themselves. Also, some professions invite criticism among those who are ignorant of the true potential of the trade.
Also, some people are happiest when they are finding fault with something. What if Mr. Mechanic won the lottery, or had a trust fund. Would he be good enough then? Or what if Mr. Mechanic was an orphan, but told his future in-laws that he was working to learn the trade so that he could one day open a chain of garages. Would that change their opinion, or would they just then start ragging on how he dresses?
|
|
Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,009
|
Post by Spellbound454 on May 6, 2013 17:02:37 GMT -5
Sure.. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png)
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,881
|
Post by Tennesseer on May 6, 2013 17:05:49 GMT -5
I say if the mechanic fiancé takes pride in his work and respects and loves the couple's daughter what more can a parent ask for? Yes she will have a higher income than he, but in the end, that's an issue (if it is an issue at all) for the two of them to work out. The daughter seems to see something in the man that makes him attractive to her.
Even a school custodian has an honorable job if he takes pride in his work.
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on May 6, 2013 17:27:46 GMT -5
I also think it depends on the person who is mechanic. If you make decent money, you tend (may be not YM crowd, but general population) to buy and do certain things. Would a mechanic be comfortable in that type of environment? Just as I can not envision my life in a some ghetto, I can't really envision it in a million dollar house with a maid and a pool boy and a butlerMarrying someone from a different level can entail a lot of different things. Speak for yourself...I have no problems whatsoever envisioning a butler and pool boy... ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/drool.gif)
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,510
|
Post by thyme4change on May 6, 2013 17:36:32 GMT -5
A mechanic making $45k a year who works all day fixing cars has a better work ethic then people making $150k a year, who post here 90% of their workday and say it doesnt matter because they get done what is expected of them. I resemble that remark.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 2:18:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 17:48:59 GMT -5
My wife's parents thought she was marrying down. Which was funny because our families were very similiar economically, but mine was more down to earn. Boy I proved them wrong. When my wife insisted on going through with the marriage, her mom told her she would need to ask for money someday and her mom would not give her any. Thankfully we never have needed to test that threat. You should hit up MIL for your sports car fund since *their* daughter is now out of work. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png) I like where you are going with this...
|
|
quince
Senior Member
Joined: Sept 23, 2011 17:51:12 GMT -5
Posts: 2,699
|
Post by quince on May 6, 2013 18:15:02 GMT -5
I'd be OK with whatever my children choose. I don't judge people on their income, profession, or lack thereof. Neither does my husband. As long as they don't expect others to subsidize them, and accept the results of their choices, why would we be concerned?
|
|
InsertCoolName
Familiar Member
Joined: Mar 1, 2011 17:32:48 GMT -5
Posts: 972
|
Post by InsertCoolName on May 6, 2013 18:18:40 GMT -5
I would be upset if my children went with an abusive spouse. I don't give a rat's ass what they make. That's their business.
I have never had a bitchy or horrible experience at my local walmart. Just another reason to enjoy small town living.
Right now my oldest child's gf isn't allowed to work. Her mother doesn't work and because this girl is a girl neither is she. And this little girl(almost 17) can't wait to get out of their house so she can live as she wants. You know, with a job! If, after high school, they are still together and both want to work at Walmart....they will make decent bank for THIS town. Most of the people at our local Wamart make $10+ per hour. You're only at min wage for a few months. And if you show up to work and do your easy job...they bump your pay fast. So I see no issue at all with jobs at Walmart.
If any of my kids and their SO's want to go to college and make big bucks..great! I'm happy for them.
If any of my kids and their SO's want to just stick around here and find a job without going to college and making enough to live. Great! I'm happy for them.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 2:18:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 18:24:59 GMT -5
The guy in the OP is an auto mechanic. That is a far cry from a Walmart cashier. I'm not sure a Walmart cashier is relevant to this discussion. I don't necessarily agree. An auto mechanic has a career. There are 3 types of worker at the Walmart register: those for whom it is a means to an end, all they can do, or all they care to do. If it is a means to an end - someone pursuing a career in retail management, or an artist who moonlights to pay the bills then it seems comparable to me (albeit more poorly compensated). This is the group most likely to meet the "good enough for your kid" criteria. If working at Walmart is all someone is capable of, then that is their career. In which case, it is every bit as respectable as being an auto mechanic, but much less likely to be intellectually compatible with the 6 figure earner. If it is all someone cares to do, then they are probably a lazy sack of poo, and nobody is going to think they are good enough for their kid.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 2:18:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 18:53:59 GMT -5
As long as they are ok with it (daughter and husband to be) who gives a rat ass what the rest of the world thinks.
My wife family did not approve of me, I was below her class. 10 years later I am still around and my income potential far surpass hers. Her mom came around, as for the rest I don't care.
My wife cousin as a corporate lawyer is making 200k, close to 300k with bonus. Her husband had no degree when they got married and when their boys were little he became a stay at home dad and got a Bachelors in psychology. She never had an issue with it, she went into the marriage knowing full well she will always be the one making the $$$.
He was the one that had a problem with it and it almost ruined their marriage. He had the typical male ego and felt he should be providing for his family, hated having to stay home with the kids but daycare for 3 kids would costs more than he made working. Now that the boys are 7, 9, 10 he is back to work full time and they pay her mom to provide after school care.
He makes about 50-60k and she is on a partner track. He will never match her income but being able to contribute somewhat financially has helped tremendously and their marriage seems to be solid. They are still in therapy and do couples retreats a few times a year.
So it is not always the high earning person in the relationship that has an issue with it. Sometimes it is the lower earning one that feels that they don't measure up or in many cases feels less like a man.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on May 6, 2013 19:10:46 GMT -5
For a ginger attorney married to a mechanic, against her mother's wishes, this has been an interesting thread. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I think the parents should keep out of it if they want to maintain a good relationship with their daughter. If he's lazy or treats her badly, that's one thing, but if he's a kind, faithful guy who just wants to put in his 40 hours a week til retirement - what's the problem? Any opinion that she's marrying "down" or should find someone closer to her income level will probably not be well-received. And IMO unambitious doesn't equal lazy. Maybe I'm biased because I know way too many people who feel their family's social status or their ability to command a specific salary should excuse certain moral failings, but to me as long as my kid's SO is willing to hold down a job (or contribute to the household proportionately), treats others with respect, and makes my kid happy, their job title and salary aren't that important. For my mom, the objections seemed to be related more to education level than income. DH is very bright but never went to college. I have 2 degrees. She has complained that he and his family don't value education. (The fact that his family could buy and sell mine many times over is irrelevant). I just don't get the objection. My degrees don't make me any smarter, DH and I can carry on a conversation on just about anything. He is incredibly kind and has a better work ethic than I do. But I still should've married a doctor ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/rolleyes.gif) . To be fair to my mom, she has been nothing but nice to DH since I made it clear her opinion was not well-received. But that was a conversation it would have been best to never have in the first place.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,770
|
Post by raeoflyte on May 6, 2013 19:31:29 GMT -5
Well I'm going to say that being married to someone with a significantly lower ambition level is hard. Dh and I have been together since we were 17, and you could never say married him for a paycheck.
But...I supported him through 2 degrees with the plan that he'd make 6 figures or darn close. Plans change which I can accept but its been tough for me to come to terms with the fact that he isnt likely to even hit 40k.
In 5 years maybe rolls could be reversed, who knows.
However, any talks you waNt to have about this needs to happen before the kids are seriously involved with anyone.
I really want my kids to want me around. So unless their life partners are awful I am going to work my butt off to make sure they feel welcome in our family.
|
|
Pants
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 19:26:44 GMT -5
Posts: 7,579
|
Post by Pants on May 6, 2013 19:44:11 GMT -5
I was a management consultant with a BA who started dating a bartender with 2 years of college but no degree. He earned 40% of what I did. I was a full-time student who married a bartender who was taking classes part time. He earned 120% of what I did. I'm now a corporate drone with an MBA who is married to an assistant project manager (still no degree.) He earns 70% of what I do and is line for another promotion soon.
I know it had to be hard for my parents to keep their mouths shut. But they did. He had trouble choosing directions, and still does. But he's on track to be a higher earner than either one of us could have predicted.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 2:18:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 2:18:44 GMT -5
I personally would not want my kids to marry a minimum wage worker, but I would be ok with them marrying someone with a trade (mechanic, plumber, electrician, etc). My husband and I grew up very poor and it was a miserable way to live. I don't want my kids to ever experience that kind of life so we worked hard to give them a decent middle class life.
My husband and I were dirt poor when we got married. Neither of us married beneath our social status (although his ex-wife said I was beneath her....). We were both in college and working hard to make a better life. I would hope my kids would marry for love and not money, but I do realize that they do need to look at the whole picture. Love doesn't pay the bills or put food on the table. Hard work does. I would hope that they really think hard about their potential spouse. I want my kids to be happy. I want them to be loved as much as their father loves me and I love him. I also want them to have a good life where they aren't worried about whether or not they have enough money to pay the light bill AND buy groceries.
For the record: I expect MY children to do more in life than work at Wal-Mart or McDonald's. I am fine with them going to trade school and making $45K a year. I would however feel that I failed as a parent if all my kids wanted to do in life was work for minimum wage.
Maybe that makes me a snob, I don't know.
|
|
Nazgul Girl
Junior Associate
Babysitting our new grandbaby 3 days a week !
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 23:25:02 GMT -5
Posts: 5,913
Today's Mood: excellent
|
Post by Nazgul Girl on May 7, 2013 5:22:28 GMT -5
I really don't care who my kids marry as long as they are nice people who work hard. Doesn't matter if they are a brain surgeon or cashier at Walmart. It isn't about that but who they are as a human being. nice sentiment, but lacking in reality the cashier at walmart may need a large part of that 7 figures you have scrimped and saved, for their lives, not yours if you okay with that, fine.....but working as hard as you have to finally reach a goal, and then having to support someone else with that money that would not be ok with a lot of people...... yes i want my kids to be happy....but i also want them to think about how their decisions will affect the rest of their life as long as they understand the difficult road that lies ahead, i wont like it, but i would probably live with it just "working" hard isnt enough anymore.....skills pay the bills Well put. My sis-in-law always said ( in front of her kids ) that she didn't care if they became garbage men as long as they were happy. Two have gone the education/skills route, one is working hard in a retail managerial setting and is a published author, and one went the (less-than) garbage man route and is chronically under or unemployed. They have problems with his anger issues and getting fired over and over because of his defiance. He's unhappy because he's got the brains but not the skills to be a professional. Skills ( whether college or trades ) do pay the bills !
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on May 7, 2013 5:54:53 GMT -5
I think we are talking 2 different things. There is a difference between a lazy person who is unmotivated and a someone with ambition and works hard. I know people who work extremely hard in some lower paid jobs. It is just that their lives unfolded that way and they wound up doing those kinds of jobs. College isn't for everyone. And, neither is there any guarantee that going to college is going to land you a great job. There are also some who go to college and never get off the ground. A spouse can bring different things to the table. My oldest son is most likely not going to go to college. He just is not academically oriented and that is OK. I predict the military or trade school for him. The faster he can get some skill or education and get out and really start working, the better his trajectory will be. I don't think less of him even though i have post graduate education and degrees.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 2:18:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 6:22:19 GMT -5
I am not saying my kids have to go to college either. I am saying that I hope to God that they aspire to be more than a minimum wage worker. I don't want to see my kids struggle working a minimum wage job for the rest of their lives. They can go to the military, go to trade school..etc. I just don't want them to work at or marry someone who will never do more than work minimum wage.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,873
|
Post by zibazinski on May 7, 2013 6:27:10 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 2:18:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 7:01:17 GMT -5
In our family, the attitude is, "We don't care where you came from, whether or not you were poor, whether or not you have a fancy degree. If you're good to our family member, come on in." The best example is my BIL, whom my sister married at the tender age of 19. Frankly, my parents would rather she had married someone else. He came from an abusive household (stepmother, but his father let her treat him that way), he tried college but never got anywhere with it. He turned out to be very supportive of my sister; after 3 children, my sister decided she wanted to go to Med school. He worked 2 and 3 jobs to support them. Later he did most of the work at home and helped her set up her office when she started her own practice. Now he and my 82-year old father are planning a road trip out West together. (BIL used to be a long-haul trucker.)
When DS brought his serious GF to visit, I showed her a couple of slideshows I'd done for my parents' 60th anniversary and Dad's 80th. The poor thing freaked out. She came from a small town in IA, had only a trade school education in general office skills and worked managing inventory at a Nissan dealership. All I wanted to do was show her what a nice, productive bunch we were and she saw the doctoral robes (sister and a niece by marriage), the Olympic medals (nephew) and the other accomplishments and figured she wouldn't fit in. I had to explain that this was the FB version: it skipped the rebellious adolescents, the unwed pregnancy, the bumps I the road we all hit. I told both her and DS that if he married a clone of me, it wouldn't work. She's now our DIL and we love her.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 2:18:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 7:44:40 GMT -5
And IMO unambitious doesn't equal lazy. I agreed with the balance of your post, but wanted to nitpick this statement. I think everyone needs ambition, broadly defined. If you aren't trying to be the absolute best you can at something in your life, then you are wasting the opportunity you were given in life. I don't think everyone needs to be financially or professionally ambitious. If a floor nurse doesn't want to get promoted to a higher paying administrative position because he wants to be the absolute best floor nurse he can and caring for patients is what fulfills him, that is still ambition. If a cashier is working to pay bills at a job she doesn't care about because she is spending all of her energy trying to finish her first novel, that is still ambition. And if a mom tends bar one night a week to pay for her kid's dance lessons because she wants to be the best mom she can, I believe that is still ambition. I totally get coasting in one area of your life so you can excel in the area you really care about. But if there isn't something you care about, or something that you are trying to be awesome at, then I do believe you are lazy.
|
|
michelyn8
Familiar Member
Joined: Jul 25, 2012 6:48:24 GMT -5
Posts: 926
|
Post by michelyn8 on May 7, 2013 7:46:31 GMT -5
There are two sides to a story. Whilst the parents are thinking their little angel is marrying beneath her. Her boyfriend's parents are thinking he is marrying beneath him....and nothing could be good enough for their prince. Whatever...the choice is their own. Maybe money isn't that important to them. You have to let them live their lives..... My lovely daughter has a great boyfriend...except he has red hair and I'm trying to envision red haired grandchildren someday and what colour ribbons do I buy. All sorts goes through your mind when you let go of your most beloved. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) Just a side note on the redhair: I have naturally light to medium brown hair and my ex had light brown/dirty blonde hair (back when he still had hair). We managed to have TWO redheaded children. It was a complete surprise when DD1 was crowning and the doctor told us he saw red hair. And DGD was born with dark brown hair that has since lightened to brown/dirty blonde like her grandfather had even though her mother and paternal grandmother are both redheads. So having a redheaded parent is not "guarantee" of a redheaded baby.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 2:18:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 8:04:18 GMT -5
And IMO unambitious doesn't equal lazy. I agreed with the balance of your post, but wanted to nitpick this statement. I think everyone needs ambition, broadly defined. If you aren't trying to be the absolute best you can at something in your life, then you are wasting the opportunity you were given in life. I don't think everyone needs to be financially or professionally ambitious. If a floor nurse doesn't want to get promoted to a higher paying administrative position because he wants to be the absolute best floor nurse he can and caring for patients is what fulfills him, that is still ambition. If a cashier is working to pay bills at a job she doesn't care about because she is spending all of her energy trying to finish her first novel, that is still ambition. And if a mom tends bar one night a week to pay for her kid's dance lessons because she wants to be the best mom she can, I believe that is still ambition. I totally get coasting in one area of your life so you can excel in the area you really care about. But if there isn't something you care about, or something that you are trying to be awesome at, then I do believe you are lazy. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif) I also second/third/fourth those who said that as long as your kid understands the ramifications of marrying a lower earner, no one else should be concerned with the quality of their lives. I'd also like to add that as the "lower quality/lower ambition" person in our relationship, a lot was assumed by the job I had at the time. All his parents knew was that I was a bank teller making less than $10/hr. They didn't know that I was looking for new jobs every day and night. Now I make more than 2x that and I have no plans to slow down anytime soon.
|
|
michelyn8
Familiar Member
Joined: Jul 25, 2012 6:48:24 GMT -5
Posts: 926
|
Post by michelyn8 on May 7, 2013 8:06:12 GMT -5
I think the answer is green ribbons, spell. The whole spectrum of greens and blues; all the grays; rich chocolate browns; watermelon pink; heathered lavender (heck, almost any heathered color); warm creams; "winter white"; jet black. These colors look GREAT on DN and her boys My two redheads have different skin tones even though they both now have strawberry blonde hair, freckles, and green eyes. DD1 has a warmer tone and looks great in all those warm autumn colors like rust, mustard yellow, and most shades of green. DD2 has a cooler skin tone and looks horrid in those colors but looks great in cool jewel tones and most pastels like me. Even their hair had different shades at birth. DD1 had the orangey red hair and DD2 had blondish red hair that turned a beautiful browning red as a toddler. And don't get me started on their different body types. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
|
|