FDA: Over-the-counter sale of morning-after pill OK for ages

[djAdvocate]

May 1, 2013 12:11:44 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

May 1, 2013 6:51:53 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

I would rather my teen daughter take a morning after pill, than to be constantly taking birth control pills. My gut tells me they are not good.

The "morning after pill" is NOT to be used regularly to protect against pregnancy.  It's an EMERGENCY solution, not something to rely on every time you have sex without protection.

i am aware of that fact, mmhmm, but WHY is that the case?

[djAdvocate]

May 1, 2013 12:23:48 GMT -5 steff said:

I don't see teens having sex as having much if anything to do with respecting their parents.  Teens are going to have sex.  Raging hormones override common sense.  The best thing IMO that a parent can do, is to make sure their teen understands safe sex practices & has access to condoms. 

My 18 yr old son spent last Friday night at his 19 year old gf's house because her parents were out of town.  I didn't have to be told to know what was going to happen.  As they were leaving my house to head to her house for the night, I did IMO the best I could do & reminded him to use a condom & made sure he had them.  I'm also the kind of mom who didn't whisper that quietly to him, but hollered it to him as they were walking out the door.  I did however, as soon as finding out that he would be spending the night (I found out 2 days earlier) I bought a box of condoms & just left it in his desk drawer.  So I KNEW he had them (no excuses!). 

If we really want to try and make "respect for your parents" fit into my situation, I was respected by him.  I was told open & honestly where he would be...no lying.  He did NOT go against any teaching I gave him thru his teenage years because we've always openly talked about safe sex, condom use & even had the condom/banana puppet show when he was in Jr High.  I never preached abstinence ONLY to him.  I preached safe sex & condom use. 

He'll be 19 in 2 weeks, it would be rather stupid on my part to think he's not going to have sex at this age. 

a child is expected to equivocate to his parents as superiors.
a teen is expected to consider his parents opinion above his or her own.
an adult is expected to consider his parents opinion as an equal.

to expect a young adult to equivocate is to deprive them of superego development.  not a smart move, if you want to raise future adults.

[steff]

I'm not raising a little robot who doesn't dare have a belief that isn't mine or who doesn't dare be his own person.  

While, as a mom, I had a good cry that my baby isn't a baby anymore, I am pleased that he was honest with me, that he listened & learned thru all the safe sex lectures, & that he was responsible & acted like an "adult". 

[mmhmm]

Actually, most new studies show Plan B to delay ovulation, rather than prevent implantation.  It's progestin, and that's what progestin does.  Plan B won't work for a woman who's recently ovulated, and there is a higher risk of ectopic pregnancy (which requires implantation, but in an area other than the uterus) with its use.  It's anything but 100% effective to prevent pregnancy, but the percentage of effectiveness rises in proportion to the expediency of use.  Taken within 24 hours, it's about 95% effective.

[djAdvocate]

May 1, 2013 12:31:01 GMT -5 steff said:

I'm not raising a little robot who doesn't dare have a belief that isn't mine or who doesn't dare be his own person.  

While, as a mom, I had a good cry that my baby isn't a baby anymore, I am pleased that he was honest with me, that he listened & learned thru all the safe sex lectures, & that he was responsible & acted like an "adult". 

you sound like a good parent, steff.  well, at least to me.  some people never become adults.  your young person sounds as if he will.

[djAdvocate]

May 1, 2013 12:31:20 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Actually, most new studies show Plan B to delay ovulation, rather than prevent implantation.  It's progestin, and that's what progestin does.  Plan B won't work for a woman who's recently ovulated, and there is a higher risk of ectopic pregnancy (which requires implantation, but in an area other than the uterus) with its use.  It's anything but 100% effective to prevent pregnancy, but the percentage of effectiveness rises in proportion to the expediency of use.  Taken within 24 hours, it's about 95% effective.

if that is true then it is TRULY a contraceptive.

mmhmm- why is emergency contraception inadvisable for regular use?  there must be a medical reason.

[mmhmm]

May 1, 2013 12:23:49 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 1, 2013 12:11:44 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

The "morning after pill" is NOT to be used regularly to protect against pregnancy.  It's an EMERGENCY solution, not something to rely on every time you have sex without protection.

i am aware of that fact, mmhmm, but WHY is that the case?

Primarily, dj, because Plan B contains a higher dose of progestin than birth control pills.  There are no long-term studies to determine what this higher dosage will do over the long haul.  As far as I can determine, it's recommended for emergency use only in order to avoid tempting fate when no data is available on the results of long-term, or frequent use.

[steff]

He's working almost 40 hours a week & going to college full time.  He's spent a year saving up for a car.  He did his 1 semester in a dorm & then moved back home because he hated dorm life. He took over his cell phone bill, his Xbox bill, his laptop bill & buys his own food now.   If really the only thing I have to bitch about is that he seems to collect dirty dishes in his room, then I'll take it!  To reward him for all his hard work, my mom has decided to buy him a car for his bday this month.  He has no idea & he'll be allowed to keep everything he has saved up so far. 

As a parent, I'm pretty content with the job done up to this point.  Having sex at almost 19 is to be expected IMO. 

[Virgil Showlion]

They also knew that I was going to make my own choices and they couldn't brow beat me.

I respected my parents' wishes while making my own choices. I'd pat myself on the back, except that in the circles I move in, I know of only a handful of individuals who didn't respect their parents' wishes while making their own choices.

moreover, young adults are not expected to be wind-up-toys.  they are called young adults for a reason.

DJ with a "people will just do it anyway" argument!? Well I never...

[Deleted]

Steff you are the kind of mom I wish I had and you parent the way I try to parent.  I am proud of my kids.  We have a very good relationship and I am proud to be a parent that they can come to and speak openly and honestly to.

I bet your son is an amazing young man and any girl would be lucky to have him.

[swamp]

I respected my parents' wishes while making my own choices. I'd pat myself on the back, except that in the circles I move in, I know of only a handful of individuals who didn't respect their parents' wishes while making their own choices.

Or they are raging hypocrites.

A few years ago, there was a teacher who started a letter to the editor campaign about "unruly kids" and trying to get a curfew imposed on the town.  He was SHOCKED I tell you, SHOCKED, that there were teens walking around town after 10 and some were INTOXICATED!!!! Oh noooooz!

I went to HS with the guy.  Guess who used to get raging drunk and wander around town?   There was one night when we were about 19 that we were at a party together and he got so drunk I drove him home and dragged him in the house and dropped in on the living room floor.  He had no idea how he got home. 

[djAdvocate]

May 1, 2013 12:40:36 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

They also knew that I was going to make my own choices and they couldn't brow beat me.

I respected my parents' wishes while making my own choices. I'd pat myself on the back, except that in the circles I move in, I know of only a handful of individuals who didn't respect their parents' wishes while making their own choices.

moreover, young adults are not expected to be wind-up-toys.  they are called young adults for a reason.

DJ with a "people will just do it anyway" argument!? Well I never...

non sequitur.  i never said "people will just do it anyway".  you are reading your own prejudices into my posts, Virgil.

you want to know why i object to you asserting that?  for one, i think a parent has a role to play in the upbringing of their kids.  and i expect my son to listen to me, and to take my knowledge over his own "feelings".  but i am not the sort of parent that says that you should do something or not do it "because i say so".  there are more elaborate reasons than that, and they should be expected to listen to them (edit: and UNDERSTAND them). 

i am not my son's "buddy".  i am his parent.  i expect him to listen to me and to respect me; and at his age, i expect him to follow my instructions nearly all of the time.  if he FAILS to do so, he had better have a good explanation.  but "doing it anyway", is not among them.

now, if you want to continue asserting that i am the type of person that thinks that passive is best, Virgil- you just go right ahead.  but my replies are going to get increasingly angry from this point forward.  i am through being nice, ok?  you are totally wrong, if you think this is how i operate, and your continued disapprobation is both unwelcome and slander, as far as i am concerned.  i can't take it lightly. 

[steff]

Thanks angel!   I've just always treated EVERYTHING as open for conversation.  Sex, politics, religion, money, education, movies, music....you name it & we've talked about it.  I give him plenty of privacy & room to be himself.  I fight for him when necessary & step back when I think it's something he could or should handle himself.  I've kept an open door policy for his friends & sadly, I probably know more about them than their own parents in some cases.  We've had the teenage yelling matches, but with the understanding that there is a line he can't cross during yelling.  I've told him that he can think I'm a bitch all day long, he can tell his friends I'm a bitch all day long, but he can never say it to me.  lol 

[Deleted]

May 1, 2013 9:56:50 GMT -5 oped said:

Lol. I wasn't trying to change my mind or anyone's. I was trying to acertain how likely it is your son would tell you the whole truth. Admittedly not my business, but I think you brought it up.

You are right! It's none of your business and I hadn't brought it up anything with you.
It's not your place to ask my personal question nor I own you any explanation.

You do what's right for you according to your belief. In same time, you  don't have No right to imply on my decision. 

[Deleted]

May 1, 2013 12:11:50 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 1, 2013 12:06:01 GMT -5 swamp said:

Plan B prevents implantation after creation of the zygote, so it's technically an abortifacient.  However, I don't consider the failure to implant of 6 cells to be an abortion. 

Call it whatever you want. The term isn't important.

The term is very important for people whose values are different than yours or mine.  People should understand what the medications they are taking are intended to do.

[Deleted]

I find it funny when I see old high school friends post their "outrage" on FB of how horrible teens are today and how they all need to be prayed for.  I just laugh because I KNOW what these people were like as teens.  I KNOW who they slept with (since we were friends we used to talk about it), how often the got drunk, drugs they tried...etc. 

ETA: this was in response to Swamp's post above about the guy she went to HS with.

[Deleted]

May 1, 2013 12:37:04 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 1, 2013 12:31:20 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Actually, most new studies show Plan B to delay ovulation, rather than prevent implantation.  It's progestin, and that's what progestin does.  Plan B won't work for a woman who's recently ovulated, and there is a higher risk of ectopic pregnancy (which requires implantation, but in an area other than the uterus) with its use.  It's anything but 100% effective to prevent pregnancy, but the percentage of effectiveness rises in proportion to the expediency of use.  Taken within 24 hours, it's about 95% effective.

if that is true then it is TRULY a contraceptive.

mmhmm- why is emergency contraception inadvisable for regular use?  there must be a medical reason.

Aside from the possible medical implications of taking higher doses of these hormones at one shot...

It's less effective than regular birth control, it's hard to get in an emergency, most people don't just have sex once per month, and it is more expensive than regular birth control.

[jkapp]

Apr 30, 2013 19:09:20 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Avoiding a pregnancy or abortion if your primary method of birth control fails? Yes.

A simple application of Bayes' rule tells us that 95%+ of girls using the morning after pill will be doing so because they used no primary method of birth control.

If you contest that fact, I can give you a straightforward mathematical proof.

Actually, I would think the statistics showing how many people have contracted STDs already proves that fact

[Cookies Galore]

May 1, 2013 12:31:20 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Actually, most new studies show Plan B to delay ovulation, rather than prevent implantation.  It's progestin, and that's what progestin does.  Plan B won't work for a woman who's recently ovulated, and there is a higher risk of ectopic pregnancy (which requires implantation, but in an area other than the uterus) with its use.  It's anything but 100% effective to prevent pregnancy, but the percentage of effectiveness rises in proportion to the expediency of use.  Taken within 24 hours, it's about 95% effective.

Thank you! I still can't believe that for how long emergency contraceptive has been around that people still don't understand how it works. I was told by my doctor while I was in college (so we're talking almost 10 years), that like regular birth control, if I have already ovulated and implantation happened, I would continue to be pregnant after taking EC. Everything I've read over the year supports that assessment. Progestin is not equivalent to mifepristone.

[swamp]

May 1, 2013 13:02:54 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Apr 30, 2013 19:09:20 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

A simple application of Bayes' rule tells us that 95%+ of girls using the morning after pill will be doing so because they used no primary method of birth control.

If you contest that fact, I can give you a straightforward mathematical proof.

Actually, I would think the statistics showing how many people have contracted STDs already proves that fact

I'm not following.  YOu can get an STD while using birth control.  The pill doesn't do diddly to stop chlamydia. 

And the number with an STD includes those who will test positive for HPV but are asymptomatic. 

[djAdvocate]

i should add one more thing: having a dialog with your kid makes you a better parent, and them a better child.  why?  because you can find out what motivates them, and use that to your advantage when acting in their interests.  it is way more effective than telling them to do things that make no sense to them and that they hate doing, and enforcing that with a belt or yelling or whatever you use as discipline for your youngster.  and it makes them feel like they are a person that can make decisions and be responsible, rather than a child who cannot.  these are useful tools in situations where you are NOT going to be there, and where your advice has NOT been given.

i am just being realistic, as Tony would put it.  you are not going to win every battle.  don't expect that, and you will suffer less disappointment.

jmho.

[Deleted]

This thread is getting very interesting. We will find it out soon enough with end result.
Have a good one everyone.

[jkapp]

May 1, 2013 13:05:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 1, 2013 13:02:54 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Actually, I would think the statistics showing how many people have contracted STDs already proves that fact

I'm not following.  YOu can get an STD while using birth control.  The pill doesn't do diddly to stop chlamydia. 

And the number with an STD includes those who will test positive for HPV but are asymptomatic. 

Personally, if all a person uses for contraception is the pill, they're a f'ing idiot.  And there are many of them, considering how many new cases of STDs there are every year.  AIDs, for instance, shouldn't even be an issue anymore, except that for some reason certain people abhor personal responsibility.  I have zero sympathy for anyone who contracts an STD through consensual sex...

[Virgil Showlion]

now, if you want to continue asserting that i am the type of person that thinks that passive is best, Virgil- you just go right ahead.  but my replies are going to get increasingly angry from this point forward.  i am through being nice, ok?  you are totally wrong, if you think this is how i operate, and your continued disapprobation is both unwelcome and slander, as far as i am concerned.  i can't take it lightly.

You equated teens who demonstrate genuine parental respect to "wind-up-toys". Like everyone else here, you've endorsed the wrongheaded notion that once kids get to a certain "young adult" age, it's perfectly normal and acceptable for them to say "screw that" to their parents' wishes and then do as they like.

I can't reason with these standards. So you can believe that "to expect a young adult to equivocate is to deprive them of superego development" if that's what gets you through the day. Ms. Swamp can believe that I live in a world of raging hypocrites; she can believe she respected her parents even though she didn't give a crap what they said while she did what she wanted to do. Everyone else here can go right on treating rebelliousness as some inevitable, constructive expression of self will.

I'm sorry I wasted my time. I apologize for wasting your time. Good day to you all.

[justme]

May 1, 2013 13:20:08 GMT -5 jkapp said:

May 1, 2013 13:05:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

I'm not following.  YOu can get an STD while using birth control.  The pill doesn't do diddly to stop chlamydia. 

And the number with an STD includes those who will test positive for HPV but are asymptomatic. 

Personally, if all a person uses for contraception is the pill, they're a f'ing idiot.  And there are many of them, considering how many new cases of STDs there are every year.  AIDs, for instance, shouldn't even be an issue anymore, except that for some reason certain people abhor personal responsibility.  I have zero sympathy for anyone who contracts an STD through consensual sex...

You do realize that a lot of STDs are passed through skin-to-skin contact and that condoms do not cover all the skin that touches during sex? It's quite easy to pass an STD without have "sex" and instead just touching someone there. Condoms are not fail proof, not in the slightest.

[justme]

May 1, 2013 13:24:16 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

now, if you want to continue asserting that i am the type of person that thinks that passive is best, Virgil- you just go right ahead.  but my replies are going to get increasingly angry from this point forward.  i am through being nice, ok?  you are totally wrong, if you think this is how i operate, and your continued disapprobation is both unwelcome and slander, as far as i am concerned.  i can't take it lightly.

You equated teens who demonstrate genuine parental respect to "wind-up-toys". Like everyone else here, you've endorsed the wrongheaded notion that once kids get to a certain "young adult" age, it's perfectly normal and acceptable for them to say "screw that" to their parents' wishes and then do as they like.

I can't reason with these standards. So you can believe that "to expect a young adult to equivocate is to deprive them of superego development" if that's what gets you through the day. Ms. Swamp can believe that I live in a world of raging hypocrites; she can believe she respected her parents even though she didn't give a crap what they said while she did what she wanted to do. Everyone else here can go right on treating rebelliousness as some inevitable, constructive expression of self will.

I'm sorry I wasted my time. I apologize for wasting your time. Good day to you all.

You're conflating respect to equal obey. That's what everyone is having a problem with. I can respect a person's thoughts or beliefs and still not have to obey them. A teen can respect the reasons why their parents wants them to put off sex and still choose to have sex.

[djAdvocate]

May 1, 2013 13:24:16 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

now, if you want to continue asserting that i am the type of person that thinks that passive is best, Virgil- you just go right ahead.  but my replies are going to get increasingly angry from this point forward.  i am through being nice, ok?  you are totally wrong, if you think this is how i operate, and your continued disapprobation is both unwelcome and slander, as far as i am concerned.  i can't take it lightly.

You equated teens who demonstrate genuine parental respect to "wind-up-toys".

no, i didn't.  i equated teens who follow orders unquestioningly and don't think for themselves as "wind-up-toys". 

Like everyone else here, you've endorsed the wrongheaded notion that once kids get to a certain "young adult" age, it's perfectly normal and acceptable for them to say "screw that" to their parents' wishes and then do as they like.

i have done NOTHING of the sort, Virgil.  what i have said is that teens are on a continuum.  at 13, they should just follow orders.  at 18, they are on their own.  inbetween, they should listen and act according to their age an experience.

i am not a "black and white" person, Virgil.  just because i don't expect my son to follow every single instruction of mine doesn't mean i don't think he should follow ANY.  i think i have made that QUITE CLEAR.  does anyone other than YOU disagree?

I can't reason with these standards. So you can believe that "to expect a young adult to equivocate is to deprive them of superego development" if that's what gets you through the day.

it has nothing to do with "what gets me through the day", any more than our charming discussions, Virgil.

Ms. Swamp can believe that I live in a world of raging hypocrites;

or not, as the case may be.

she can believe she respected her parents even though she didn't give a crap what they said while she did what she wanted to do. Everyone else here can go right on treating rebelliousness as some inevitable, constructive expression of self will.

well, i agree that i DO view it that way.  i actually find it kinda charming.  but he still does what i say.  so flexing his wings is no skin off my back.  and none off his hide. 

I'm sorry I wasted my time. I apologize for wasting your time. Good day to you all.

you have a real chip on your shoulder against having a coercive relationship with young adults rather than an authoritarian one, Virgil.  i don't get that, but whatever.

[Deleted]

May 1, 2013 13:24:16 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You equated teens who demonstrate genuine parental respect to "wind-up-toys". Like everyone else here, you've endorsed the wrongheaded notion that once kids get to a certain "young adult" age, it's perfectly normal and acceptable for them to say "screw that" to their parents' wishes and then do as they like.

If memory serves, didn't you choose a different religion than the one in which you were raised?  It is normal and acceptable for children to shift from parroting their parents' values to choosing their own set of values.

I think the hope is that kids will land somewhere close to their parents' values, or choose to do better than the generation before, but the act of choosing for yourself is part of growing up.

[djAdvocate]

May 1, 2013 13:41:37 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

May 1, 2013 13:24:16 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You equated teens who demonstrate genuine parental respect to "wind-up-toys". Like everyone else here, you've endorsed the wrongheaded notion that once kids get to a certain "young adult" age, it's perfectly normal and acceptable for them to say "screw that" to their parents' wishes and then do as they like.

If memory serves, didn't you choose a different religion than the one in which you were raised?  It is normal and acceptable for children to shift from parroting their parents' values to choosing their own set of values.

I think the hope is that kids will land somewhere close to their parents' values, or choose to do better than the generation before, but the act of choosing for yourself is part of growing up.

i don't understand why this idea of transitioning your kid from child to adult is so difficult to understand.  i always figured it was fundamental.

[swamp]

May 1, 2013 13:44:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 1, 2013 13:41:37 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

If memory serves, didn't you choose a different religion than the one in which you were raised?  It is normal and acceptable for children to shift from parroting their parents' values to choosing their own set of values.

I think the hope is that kids will land somewhere close to their parents' values, or choose to do better than the generation before, but the act of choosing for yourself is part of growing up.

i don't understand why this idea of transitioning your kid from child to adult is so difficult to understand.  i always figured it was fundamental.

I also don't understand why it's such a difficult concept to grasp that your kids may have different values, opinions and behaviors that you do.