Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 18, 2013 11:54:00 GMT -5
On the other unschooling thread, there was a link to a message board where a mother was spoon feeding her 12 year old son because he wouldn't stop playing video games long enough to eat or do anything else. And the other parents were encouraging her along, saying that he will stop when he was ready to stop. I think that gave unschooling a very bad name. And, I'm pretty sure that is what my son would do. I know minecraft is used quite a bit - but my son stops playing a game when it requires too much thought. At least she wasn't still breastfeeding.....supposedly you are supposed to breastfeed until the child no longer wants to....don't all men always want boob ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 2, 2024 22:16:22 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 11:56:11 GMT -5
My husband is a good teacher, too. Although he has backed off somewhat. He feels that the kids need to learn to learn without his intervention every day. I don't know if it is because he doesn't want to, or our kids are doing very well without his intervention, or what. I, however, am a horrible teacher. It usually goes something like this "Mom, I need help with this homework." And I look at it and say "The answer is 14 - can't you see that?" And then things start to go badly. I have often thought about seeing if I could take a class learning how to teach someone something. It would likely make me a better mom and a better boss. thyme, Sounds like you and your Husband's doing wonderful balancing act.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,506
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 11:58:23 GMT -5
Here is my issue with unschooling. I'm a born slacker, my kids are born slackers...my only saving grace is I don't ever want to be poor so I work very hard so I can make a good salary. but if I were in school and I had the option of doing the easy stuff or hard stuff, you can bet that I would have chosen the easy stuff. I ran into this with my youngest. I sent her to a Montessori based preschool and it did not work AT ALL for her. Even the teachers told me that she was a kid who always chose the path of least resistance. She needs structure. I'm also very Type A so I honestly can't imagine unschooling...while I am not thrilled with public school and teaching to the test, unschooling seems too far the other way. LOL - I can't not think of my friend who went on and on and on about Montessori, and how wonderful it was, and how all kids should go to Montessori, and if you don't send your kids to Montessori you don't love your children, etc. She drank that Kool-Aid hardcore. After hours and hours, my husband told her that he would have been a total failure in Montessori. She spent another hour telling him he was wrong. 6 months later she actually enrolled her son in Montessori, and the next time we saw her, she complained that they weren't pushing her son hard enough, and he wasn't getting through the curriculum she wanted him to learn. Bah-ha-ha-ha-ha. Was she not paying attention?
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,373
|
Post by movingforward on Apr 18, 2013 11:58:28 GMT -5
On the other unschooling thread, there was a link to a message board where a mother was spoon feeding her 12 year old son because he wouldn't stop playing video games long enough to eat or do anything else. And the other parents were encouraging her along, saying that he will stop when he was ready to stop. I think that gave unschooling a very bad name. And, I'm pretty sure that is what my son would do. I know minecraft is used quite a bit - but my son stops playing a game when it requires too much thought. At least she wasn't still breastfeeding.....supposedly you are supposed to breastfeed until the child no longer wants to....don't all men always want boob ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ? My old college roommate breastfeed her son until he was almost 4
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 18, 2013 12:00:42 GMT -5
Here is my issue with unschooling. I'm a born slacker, my kids are born slackers...my only saving grace is I don't ever want to be poor so I work very hard so I can make a good salary. but if I were in school and I had the option of doing the easy stuff or hard stuff, you can bet that I would have chosen the easy stuff. I ran into this with my youngest. I sent her to a Montessori based preschool and it did not work AT ALL for her. Even the teachers told me that she was a kid who always chose the path of least resistance. She needs structure. I'm also very Type A so I honestly can't imagine unschooling...while I am not thrilled with public school and teaching to the test, unschooling seems too far the other way. LOL - I can't not think of my friend who went on and on and on about Montessori, and how wonderful it was, and how all kids should go to Montessori, and if you don't send your kids to Montessori you don't love your children, etc. She drank that Kool-Aid hardcore. After hours and hours, my husband told her that he would have been a total failure in Montessori. She spent another hour telling him he was wrong. 6 months later she actually enrolled her son in Montessori, and the next time we saw her, she complained that they weren't pushing her son hard enough, and he wasn't getting through the curriculum she wanted him to learn. Bah-ha-ha-ha-ha. Was she not paying attention?LOL!!
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 18, 2013 12:01:32 GMT -5
At least she wasn't still breastfeeding.....supposedly you are supposed to breastfeed until the child no longer wants to....don't all men always want boob ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ? My old college roommate breastfeed her son until he was almost 4 OMG...that just grosses me out..no offense to anyone here, but if a kid is old enough to wipe his butt, he should not be sucking on your boob!
|
|
swasat
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 9:34:28 GMT -5
Posts: 3,735
|
Post by swasat on Apr 18, 2013 12:32:22 GMT -5
I would love to hear an answer for DQ's question as well. Does homeschooling leave out any topic that the child is not interested in? If it does, till when? Is there a certain age after which serious homechooling families tell the kid "Suck it up, buttercup!" and make them go through it?
I was never a sucker for history. Boy did I get bored in school when read about the middle ages or the Revolutionary era. But since I was a public school student I had to suck it up and go through it anyways.
And now, as a grownup, I am so glad I was taught that. Because now I understand why we are where we are today. Had it been just up to me I would have ran from that class then because at that age I did not know that learning history is a necessary step in learning human and scientific evolution.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,506
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 13:01:20 GMT -5
You mean "unschooling" not "homeschooling." Unschooling is a theory. Homeschooling is a category that includes many different theories. [/span]
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 18, 2013 13:01:32 GMT -5
I would love to hear an answer for DQ's question as well. Does homeschooling leave out any topic that the child is not interested in? If it does, till when? Is there a certain age after which serious homechooling families tell the kid "Suck it up, buttercup!" and make them go through it? I was never a sucker for history. Boy did I get bored in school when read about the middle ages or the Revolutionary era. But since I was a public school student I had to suck it up and go through it anyways. And now, as a grownup, I am so glad I was taught that. Because now I understand why we are where we are today. Had it been just up to me I would have ran from that class then because at that age I did not know that learning history is a necessary step in learning human and scientific evolution. Again, can't speak for others and can only tell you what we are planning to do - I really liked the school system /curriculum where I am from. It started early and never stopped with a subject, so by the time you were done, you were supposed to end up a very well-rounded individual with fairly deep knowledge of most of the subjects. So, that's my plan. I have two goals for homeschooling - 1. Create the love of learning and 2. Raise well-rounded people. Between my DH and I we have a VERY wide range of interests and if we can pull it off - the idea that I have in my head - it should be OK. But then again, I don't subscribe to the philosophy that if a kid is not interested in something, he doesn't need to learn it. I am not even talking about core subject. I am talking about everything. I have NEVER EVER EVER in my life heard anyone say that they regretted that learned something, so while I am hoping not to push it too hard, I want them to get exposure to various subjects and learn the basics. Once they learn the basics (again, I am not talking about core things like reading and math), then they can decide if they want to continue to learn it deeper. Now, all this is just a plan at this point bc my oldest is not even K age. So, we'll see
|
|
Plain Old Petunia
Senior Member
bloom where you are planted
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 2:09:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,840
|
Post by Plain Old Petunia on Apr 18, 2013 13:05:34 GMT -5
I would love to hear an answer for DQ's question as well. Does homeschooling leave out any topic that the child is not interested in? Homeschooling - no. Unschooling, in its purest form - yes. The theory is that eventually the child will run into something requiring knowledge of that topic, and thus a desire to learn that topic is born.
|
|
greeniis10
Well-Known Member
Joined: May 9, 2012 12:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 1,833
|
Post by greeniis10 on Apr 18, 2013 13:14:05 GMT -5
Great responses so far. I know this is a hot topic, so since we're already on page 4 I'll just briefly add that although I personally was not thrilled with the public school system my kids all went to, I do believe for them it was the way to go. I believe "unschooling" is what every good parent should be doing when they are with their kids (evenings, weekends, holidays, summer vacations, etc.). To me "unschooling" is just plain parenting.
Sam, it sounds like your parents handled homeschooling incredibly well and you're a success because of it. That's great! There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to teaching children.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,542
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 18, 2013 13:16:46 GMT -5
The theory is that eventually the child will run into something requiring knowledge of that topic, and thus a desire to learn that topic is born.
Man I'd have been screwed if I'd waited till I actually needed calculus to learn it. Honestly I haven't used much of what I learned in calc till very recently. It comes into play a lot in pharmacutical sciences I've found out.
I guess you have to set up situations where your kid would be called on to use it then? Or do you hope that one day they just run into it and it's not when they've ran out of time to learn it?
I'm really confused. I can think of a lot of things I've learned that I didn't end up having to put into practice till a much later date.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,506
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 13:21:30 GMT -5
I wonder what I would have chosen to learn if I had all day, every day, in a more unstructured format. It is easy to say that I would have never chosen X, Y or Z because I didn't have that much free time. Maybe I would have been so bored with the subjects I liked, I would have been hankering for a change and delved into something else.
It will be my life's greatest mystery.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Apr 18, 2013 13:21:47 GMT -5
I would love to hear an answer for DQ's question as well. Does homeschooling leave out any topic that the child is not interested in? Homeschooling - no. Unschooling, in its purest form - yes. The theory is that eventually the child will run into something requiring knowledge of that topic, and thus a desire to learn that topic is born. One of my good friends had her child in a Waldorf school for Kindergarten. He's a pretty tough kid to begin with and didn't do well in that atmosphere, which has many of the unstructured, unschooling ideas. She eventually realized even though it was a nice place and many children did well there, it just wasn't the right setting for her son. Here's a description of a typical discussion she'd have with the teacher or principal: Teacher: B didn't clean up his area or help put away toys today. Parent: Oh, I'm sorry. Did you talk to him about it and then make him clean up? Teacher: No. He needs to want to clean up. Parent: Uh, so would you like for me to talk to him and let him know he needs to clean up? Teacher: No, we need to help him discover a "desire from within his being" to clean up. Parent: Well, what would you like me to do about it? Teacher: [Thoughtful silence accompanied by meaningful, kind, puzzled look.] Parent: I'm not sure how to help here. Honestly, I clean up all day but never, ever because I have a deep desire from within my being to clean up. I do it because I have to. If you want him to clean up and he never develops the desire to do that, what exactly do you want me to do or what are you going to do? Teacher: The desire needs to come from within. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/undecided.png)
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,542
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 18, 2013 13:23:56 GMT -5
No, we need to help him discover a "desire from within his being" to clean up
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rofl.gif)
Please send them to my house to help my husband find his "desire" to clean up.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,506
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 13:24:35 GMT -5
LOL on the cleaning.
Giving this some thought, my daughter would probably do great with "unschooling." I bet I could suggest just about any subject and she would be all over it. She loves to create work, just so she can do it - and that is playtime for her. My son, however, wouldn't be so easy to jump on new ideas.
|
|
swasat
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 9:34:28 GMT -5
Posts: 3,735
|
Post by swasat on Apr 18, 2013 13:25:30 GMT -5
The theory is that eventually the child will run into something requiring knowledge of that topic, and thus a desire to learn that topic is born.
Man I'd have been screwed if I'd waited till I actually needed calculus to learn it. Honestly I haven't used much of what I learned in calc till very recently. It comes into play a lot in pharmacutical sciences I've found out. I guess you have to set up situations where your kid would be called on to use it then? Or do you hope that one day they just run into it and it's not when they've ran out of time to learn it? I'm really confused. I can think of a lot of things I've learned that I didn't end up having to put into practice till a much later date. Exactly!!
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,506
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 13:28:32 GMT -5
Well, aren't we being told that if done right, unschooled kids are brilliant and they will be doing college material when they 9, so they will need things you needed at 20 when they are 12, so they will learn everything on the planet before they are 25. Or something like that. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,373
|
Post by movingforward on Apr 18, 2013 13:42:32 GMT -5
The desire needs to come from within.
So like Jennifer Aniston she wants him to want to do the dishes
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 18, 2013 13:48:40 GMT -5
Well, aren't we being told that if done right, unschooled kids are brilliant and they will be doing college material when they 9, so they will need things you needed at 20 when they are 12, so they will learn everything on the planet before they are 25. Or something like that. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) It reminds me of the philosophy that some of the mommies I meeting have about sharing - don't force your child to share bc it's not "authentic", he will learn to share all on his own and it will be more organic that way. I would love to believe in the idea that children will learn everything they need simply by....living....but I am just not willing to take that chance on MY kids. There is only so much money I can save for their therapy.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,373
|
Post by movingforward on Apr 18, 2013 13:49:52 GMT -5
don't force your child to share bc it's not "authentic", he will learn to share all on his own and it will be more organic that way.
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rofl.gif)
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,506
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 13:52:21 GMT -5
I don't like to share now. I still get a sinking feeling in my stomach when one of my friends drinks my wine - even if there are three other bottles waiting for me. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/angry.png)
|
|
swasat
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 9:34:28 GMT -5
Posts: 3,735
|
Post by swasat on Apr 18, 2013 13:53:38 GMT -5
Well, aren't we being told that if done right, unschooled kids are brilliant and they will be doing college material when they 9, so they will need things you needed at 20 when they are 12, so they will learn everything on the planet before they are 25. Or something like that. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) It reminds me of the philosophy that some of the mommies I meeting have about sharing - don't force your child to share bc it's not "authentic", he will learn to share all on his own and it will be more organic that way.
I would love to believe in the idea that children will learn everything they need simply by....living....but I am just not willing to take that chance on MY kids. There is only so much money I can save for their therapy. LOL! Reminds me of my cousin's kid. He is an only child and she (my cousin) adheres to this philosophy. The "kid" is 15 now and still hates to share. Very organic growth ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) Whats mine is mine and whats yours will become mine - thats the philosophy of that kid ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) On a serious note, aren't humans greedy by nature? Why nurture the "not sharing" part more? Wouldn't the kid start believing its normal to NOT share? My cousn's kid sure seems to beleieve that.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Apr 18, 2013 13:54:55 GMT -5
Cleaning up and sharing are two things I will never, ever learn or desire from within my being. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahright.png)
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Apr 18, 2013 14:00:00 GMT -5
One of my kids is a natural sharer and apparently desires it within his being. He is also the one that although he is one of the fastest swimmers on the swim team is completely noncompetitive. Just a couple of weeks ago he was explaining that a new boy on the team was sad because the new boy was the slowest swimmer so he (my son) was starting to swim very slowly so the new boy wouldn't be in last place all the time. Guess people who think kids share organically all had kids like my younger son. My theory is that DS #2 was switched at birth and somewhere, a lovely, kind unschooling family has a hellion child and no idea what to do with him. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/devil.gif) BTW - thanks, unschool granola family! We are totally loving and enjoying your easy, sharing, kind son! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
|
|
bean29
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 10,025
|
Post by bean29 on Apr 18, 2013 14:14:34 GMT -5
I once represented someone in Family Court on a neglect case who unschooled her child. The kid was 10 and couldn't do basic math. She didn't like it, so the mother wasn't going to make her do it. Maybe it was neglect. I could possibly see not being aware of algorithms at that age, but the basic conceptions of adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, cutting, etc. are very hard to get thru life without learning organically. Sudbury schools ( unschooling on a school wide level, also called democratic free schools) have consistently found that, if you wait till a kids is not just ready, but interested, teaching all of basic math takes about 20 hours. ... Not 5 years .... tech, I'm a certified teacher. The idea that parents can't educate their own kids is bunk.... Idk, I really don't think most parents are set up to home school. I have a BS in Accounting DH has a BS in Education. Neither one of us could have taught our kids at home (but we never had the desire to do it either). I have a cousin who I have a lot of respect for who homeschooled her kids through Grade school and possibly Middle school. My understanding was they felt that by the time the kids got to HS there was more the HS environment would benefit them than the homeschooling environment. Her kids are pretty successful. One is now a college teacher, but my cousin had a degree in education. I beleive her husband has an advanced math degree - he is an insurance adjuster. They used a curriculum, regular school books and met regularly with other home schooling families. Does anyone know anyone using one of the newer home schooling computerized curriculums out now? I wonder how well the kids do vs. the ones that are motivated to give their kids the best schooling they can and meet and plan everything out. If I homeschooled my kids they would be unschooled and if they did not want to learn math or grammar, they would probably never learn it. That is why my kids attend public school. Along with the fact that I think the kids should be socialized an exposed to a variety of experiences.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 18, 2013 14:24:07 GMT -5
There's no way I could educate my kids adequately. Love them, yes. Give them experiences, yes. Encourage them to try stuff, yes. Actually teach things like grammar, math, art (anything but history really), they'd be f#$%ed. I'm dreading the day DD comes home with homework beyond coloring....
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,506
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 14:26:52 GMT -5
First off - teaching isn't as easy as some people make it look. I think there is a natural gift to helping people learn, and those that can do it think it is the most natural thing. Those of us with little patience, would struggle. Second - it may be true that most parents could educate their own kids, but if the desire isn't there, it won't go well. ***ETA - I'm not sure I read this sentence right, and I think my comment doesn't really apply. Oh, stupid public schooling making me half-illiterate! Agh! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 18, 2013 14:29:25 GMT -5
I'm not good at explaining stuff. I understand what a noun is. I can diagram a sentence but DD's almost 5. She's starting to ask questions and I'm realizing that while I know the answer, I cannot present it to her in a way she understands. Last night I tried to explain a word I used. She started crying. Heck, I couldn't even teach her how to figure out puzzles. DH is the one that sat down and explained how to look at the shape and the ins and outs and the colors and try to figure out where it goes.
|
|
Chocolate Lover
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:54:19 GMT -5
Posts: 23,200
|
Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 18, 2013 14:34:10 GMT -5
Some of us have no natural teaching ability...... I once tried to explain something to my oldest DS and after a few attempts and it not making any sense to him he says "It's a good thing you don't homeschool us, we'd all be stupid!" and he's right. I just can't teach.
|
|