Radical unschooling

[Deleted]

I've never heard of it till today and googled it.

Have you ever met someone that is practicing it? What is your take on it? Would you consider it?

Opinions?

[thyme4change]

ROFL - This is the subject we were "discussing" when I got banned.  My big moment.  Anyone remember?  

[kgb18]

Woo hoo! It's been awhile since we've had an unschooling thread. Mind your Ps & Qs thyme!

[Deleted]

I know several people. I'm not up to full discussion tonight, so I'll say, like most things, I've observed situations where it works, and situations where it doesn't.

I unschooled until age 8. At that point I insist on math, so my unschooling friends say I'm no longer unschooling ... I personally believe formal schooling should probably not start for most kids until age 8 or so... And that all foundation skills can be easily and adequately taught through living life.

[Deleted]

Apr 17, 2013 20:18:36 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

ROFL - This is the subject we were "discussing" when I got banned.  My big moment.  Anyone remember?  

What did I miss? What happened? When?

Anyway, care to re-iterate your position on the subject?

[thyme4change]

Years ago, right before MSN shut us down - I didn't have a position, except I am not that creative.  I need structure.  My kids might not, but I do.  Anyway, we had one member who was being pretty mean.  I called her out.  No, I called her a name.  And I got banned for 24 hours.

[Pants]

[Deleted]

I bookmarked it. But generally don't like the show concept, and heard mixed reviews. If you liked it, I'll have to try to watch it this weekend  

[whoisjohngalt]

ooohhh, I gotta make sure I get on here tomorrow - can't wait to see where this thread is going to go

Anyway, "unschooling" is becoming VERY popular among the people that I've been meeting lately in the homeschooling circle.  I think  to some of them is the continuation of child-led or child-centered approach to parenting. 

I think if someone does true unschooling, it's much harder than classical homeschooling, bc you have to pay attention to your kid a lot  more.  Unfortunately, I haven't seen that happening in the families that I've met.  But I haven't met that many families yet, so may be this is not the norm.

[Deleted]

Apr 17, 2013 21:01:08 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Apr 17, 2013 20:22:09 GMT -5 oped said:

I know several people. I'm not up to full discussion tonight, so I'll say, like most things, I've observed situations where it works, and situations where it doesn't.

I unschooled until age 8. At that point I insist on math, so my unschooling friends say I'm no longer unschooling ... I personally believe formal schooling should probably not start for most kids until age 8 or so... And that all foundation skills can be easily and adequately taught through living life.

Did you see the episode of Wife Swap last week with Dayna Martin's family? I've never watched that show before, but I tuned in when I read on her fb page that her family would be appearing. I thought it was a really awesome show. The kids watched with me.

Dayna Martin wrote a book on "Radical Unschooling". I haven't read it yet, but I follow her family online and they seem really interesting and happy.

www.amazon.com/Radical-Unschooling-Revolution-Has-Begun-Revised/dp/1460939980/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1366250373&sr=1-1&keywords=radical+unschooling

Bingo!

Two ladies at work were discussing the latest episode of wife swap and that is how it came up.

Never heard about it before then but from what they were saying about what they saw on the show I was not too impressed. I will try to see if I can find it on demand tonight.

I have to admit I have mixed feelings after googling it. No surprise, we are home shopping and the top of my list is good school district.

Will try to read more about it and I haven't met any families that practice it. I've known of homeschooling for years but never heard of the radical unschooling. What is the difference between the two I wonder? What makes one more attractive than the other?

Questions and questions.

[midjd]

Radical Unschooling philosophy focuses on trust of a child's innate ability to learn without coercion and invites children to explore their passions. The parent's role is to facilitate their interests and curiosity. Radical Unschooling - the book - focuses also on the evolutionary aspect of parenting and human consciousness. We are parenting and educating our children today to succeed in a joyful, productive life by following their passions, not someone else's agenda. The main presentations are - School is only one of many choices for our children in our technologically advanced world. - Forced learning isn't effective and causes more damage than formerly thought. - Respecting a child's choice and autonomy is an evolution of understanding and birth right of every human. - Learning and life are not separate. Learning is pleasurable if it is not forced on us. - Separating life into subjects isn't necessary or natural. - Humans learn from all that they do and experience in life, not just what our culture deems ''educational.'' - The main focus of parenting today is obedience and meeting the needs of the parent. This has to change if we want our children to live in a peaceful world.

Not offering any comment one way or another - but that's the definition from the book Wrongside posted.

[Deleted]

Homeschooling is a continuum. From school at home using formal curriculum the same or like the public school.... All the way down the line to radical unschooling (which also generally involves free parenting)... Most people are in between.

The show is available on abc.com.  I've heard that there wasn't really ample time to address philosophy, etc, but overall, unschooling mom came off way better than authoritatrian mom...

Lots of dedicated libertarians unschool. Its an extension of the belief in individual freedom and disavowing the ability of anyone, state or parent, to dictate how someone chooses to live. Its also celebration of individual aptitudes, talents, desires, and natural inclination o explore nd learn for internal reasons...

[Sam_2.0]

I am familiar with it. Growing up in home school circles we knew some families that went this route. I've not personally seen good results from it, but that does not mean it can't happen. IMO in this family the parents did not do a good job of guiding and teaching their children. You may not like spelling or grammar, but the rest of the world will generally expect you to be able to converse as an adult. I've seen these kids grow up & now work random PT jobs because they can't work anywhere else. No one will hire them. The come across as uneducated and ignorant. **This is how the parents come across as well, which is why I don't think they were properly equipped to unschool their children** To me, unschooling is not equal to completely ignoring the responsibility to educate your children.

I've also seen less-structured home school families where the kids turned out really well. There was a curriculum to follow, but the kids were allowed to gear studies towards their particular interests and to go at their own pace. Like Oped said earlier, some things need to be there even if the kid is not necessarily interested in the moment. So the kids get some guidance and direction and encouraged to pursue their interests while still ensuring they have the basics needed to operate in society. This is most likely the route we will take if we home school.

[Peace Of Mind]

Apr 17, 2013 21:48:14 GMT -5 midjd said:

Radical Unschooling philosophy focuses on trust of a child's innate ability to learn without coercion and invites children to explore their passions. The parent's role is to facilitate their interests and curiosity. Radical Unschooling - the book - focuses also on the evolutionary aspect of parenting and human consciousness. We are parenting and educating our children today to succeed in a joyful, productive life by following their passions, not someone else's agenda. The main presentations are - School is only one of many choices for our children in our technologically advanced world. - Forced learning isn't effective and causes more damage than formerly thought. - Respecting a child's choice and autonomy is an evolution of understanding and birth right of every human. - Learning and life are not separate. Learning is pleasurable if it is not forced on us. - Separating life into subjects isn't necessary or natural. - Humans learn from all that they do and experience in life, not just what our culture deems ''educational.'' - The main focus of parenting today is obedience and meeting the needs of the parent. This has to change if we want our children to live in a peaceful world.

Ha!  That's how I'm living my life lately.  I'm unschooling myself and living in peace and harmony and my passion.  Doing lots of nothing with DH, partying with friends, talking to you guys, decorating, gardening, and wine.  Woo Hoo! 

I'm just trying to decide if I wish my mom did that when I was a kid or not.  I'm guessing not.  We'd all be feral.  Heck, my one brother already is somewhat feral with public schooling. 

Disclaimer:  This opinion is about my family and not unschooling in of itself.

[Peace Of Mind]

Apr 17, 2013 20:18:36 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

ROFL - This is the subject we were "discussing" when I got banned.  My big moment.  Anyone remember?  

LOL!  I missed that one.  I probably already moved over here.  Who (unless they are still here) and what name did you call them to get banned? 

[Deleted]

I don't think I'd want a Radically Unschooled person building a bridge I was driving on!

It's a pendulum swung too far.  There is a mix of critical thinking development (that honestly most parents could not teach on their own), free thinking and traditional schooling (in the STEM and Research Skills) areas that would result in brilliant people.

Unschooling feels like another EQ vs IQ kind of thing.  

What happened to good old competitiveness?  Don't kids deserve to know how to compete as well as philosophize?  We're going far too soft!!

[Deleted]

Unschooled doesnt mean you don't get schooling/training... More you choose what schooling training you want.

honestly, most great artists, inventors, innovators, etc. in history have an education that more resembles unschooling than today's schooling...

[Opti]

Dayna seems to have a very negative view of her fellow parents.

"The main focus of parenting today is obedience and meeting the needs of the parent. This has to change if we want our children to live in a peaceful world."

While I agree the overall parenting style has changed from when I grew up, I thought the focus for most responsible parents remains to make your children able to thrive in the world once they hit adulthood. Obedience is something you want if you don't want to tell Johnny
every other day not to touch the hot stove or keep him from running across the street.

[thyme4change]

The main focus of parenting today is obedience

I see no evidence of that.   [/span]

[whoisjohngalt]

Apr 17, 2013 23:34:41 GMT -5 @rockit said:

I don't think I'd want a Radically Unschooled person building a bridge I was driving on!

It's a pendulum swung too far.  There is a mix of critical thinking development (that honestly most parents could not teach on their own), free thinking and traditional schooling (in the STEM and Research Skills) areas that would result in brilliant people.

Unschooling feels like another EQ vs IQ kind of thing.  

What happened to good old competitiveness?  Don't kids deserve to know how to compete as well as philosophize?  We're going far too soft!!

I would actually argue that learning critical thinking skills and free thinking is what is lacking greatly in traditional school environment. 

[whoisjohngalt]

Actually, I think there is a LOT less obedience training in today's parenting than it was in previous generations. 

[Miss Tequila]

Unless someone is a qualified teacher, I am 100% against homeschooling.  And unschooling seems absolutely absurd to me. 

I've only known a few people locally who homeschool (not that I really "knew" them but the kids were on my dd's soccer team or in Brownies) and quite honestly, they were all kind of strange.  It was only two families and I know that they do not represent everyone who homeschools, but they were strange enough that they left a lasting impression.

[swamp]

I once represented someone in Family Court on a neglect case who unschooled her child.  The kid was 10 and couldn't do basic math.  She didn't like it, so the mother wasn't going to make her do it. 

[Deleted]

Sigh. I'm obviously going to need a computer for this one...

[Deleted]

General George Patton didn't read until age 11. One example.

[swamp]

Apr 18, 2013 8:28:30 GMT -5 oped said:

General George Patton didn't read until age 11. One example.

Good for George Patton.  I'm glad it worked for him.  I'm not taking that risk with my kids. 

I don't have a problem with homeschooling, it works well for a lot of people. Unfortunately, there are a bunch of ignorant whackadoos out there who don't do a good job of it.    Mostly around here, people homeschool for religious reasons, and their kids seem woefully ignorant of science and math, but hot damn, they can quote bible verses.

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2013 8:07:20 GMT -5 swamp said:

I once represented someone in Family Court on a neglect case who unschooled her child.  The kid was 10 and couldn't do basic math.  She didn't like it, so the mother wasn't going to make her do it. 

Maybe it was neglect. I could possibly see not being aware of algorithms at that age, but the basic conceptions of adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, cutting, etc. are very hard to get thru life without learning organically.

Sudbury schools ( unschooling on a school wide level, also called democratic free schools) have consistently found that, if you wait till a kids is not just ready, but interested, teaching all of basic math takes about 20 hours. ... Not 5 years ....


tech, I'm a certified teacher. The idea that parents can't educate their own kids is bunk....

[swamp]

Apr 18, 2013 8:33:28 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Oped, I was just telling Lonewolf that when these threads come up, I like to hide behind you with the "yeah that" sign. I just don't have thick enough skin for this stuff.

Carl, if you're genuinely interested, here is an article that I really like about unschooling:

zenhabits.net/unschool/

There is nothing wrong with home schooling.  However, letting the kid decide what they want to learn is just dumb, IMO.  You have to know certain skills and whether or not you like learning them, you have to do it.

If the kid doesn't have much interest in math, it's up to the teacher/parent to come up with a lesson that integrates math into what the kid is interested in.   and if they still aren't interested, tough nuggies.  Learn it anyway.

[swamp]

Maybe it was neglect. I could possibly see not being aware of algorithms at that age, but the basic conceptions of adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, cutting, etc. are very hard to get thru life without learning organically.

She couldn't do any basic math.

She probably had a learning disability, but mom wasn't capable of working with it.

[Deleted]

I never taught my kids to read. One did at 5, one at 8. The truth is, epecially in our print laden environment, most kids will intuit reading the same way they do speaking. Now not all will intuit by 4/5... Most will by 8/9.  If they don't, no amount of pushing is likely to help. It's no mystery that I've not generally met a 12/13 year old who can't read (UNLESS they were public schooled).  At 11 our brains pass into more abstract reasoning, so if we haven't intuited, we are now capable of systemically nderstanding and applying the rules we did not intuit.

Now public schooled kids, who have been pushed and pushed nd come to hate reading and feel inferior when they ont 'get it' ... They frequently never become good readers.