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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 10:29:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Milee. I worry about DS having some of the learning issues that have appeared in my family and DH's.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 18, 2013 10:29:57 GMT -5
I'm sure it does, and I don't doubt your experience. But, if that is the reason homeschoolers wouldn't be ready for the world, then 90% of people from the rich, white suburbs (with no bussing plan) would also not be ready for college and the world. And I don't think that is true. [/span][/quote] You are right. It was just one of the things that popped in my head. I can't picture any of the kids I know who are homeschooled being able to go off to college. I could perhaps see them attending one of the local private religious colleges while staying at home. I mean, we are talking about a mom who refuses to take her kids to a science museum because dinosaur bones might be there ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rofl.gif)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 18, 2013 10:31:27 GMT -5
They learn what and when they desire to learn, and best of all they retain what they learn
So back to my question what if they don't have a desire to learn it? What if no matter what you do a kid still struggles in a subject?
Do you keep going till you figure out a way to make it click or do you just drop it forever and hope they never need it?
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Apr 18, 2013 10:35:10 GMT -5
swasat - I got a degree in math (I know my one experience is not an indicator of the norm, but I had a great experience). I did Calc 1 and 2 in high school. By the time we got to advanced courses my parents had us in tutoring or early college courses that allowed home school kids. DH's parents did the same. At that point home schooling was more about the flexible options than it was about staying in our house and never leaving or learning from anyone but mom. Thanks for the info ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) So when you entered college, how was it for you to adjust to regular schedules and expectations and deadlines? Don't take it otherwise, but college does have stringent deadlines and expectations about course work and assignments due than what homeschooling requires. Plus there is the expectation to get good grades. Was it an adjustment or a struggle? What about socially? You said you went to different tutoring classes so I am guessing you were already socially well adapted by the time you went to college. But more in terms of education, how big of an adjustment was it?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 10:35:45 GMT -5
Oh my. I know a lot of religious people who were really only prepared to go to a religious college - and that was after attending a religious high school. Even my BIL who went to public school - my IL's had him all twisted up about religion, so he was totally unprepared to face the world. He's almost 50, and still a little stunted from the experience. So, I'm not sure if we can fully blame homeschooling for the inadequacies of this particular family. Although, I'm not necessarily going to blame "religion" either. The application of both seem to be a formula of inadequate preparation. Poor kids.[/span]
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 10:36:42 GMT -5
I started a thread on unschooling years ago and got ridiculed off the thread. Now, we are seeing more and more parents seriously looking into it. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) Unschooling has been incorporated into our grandchildren's home schooling and it's been most successful. The kids have been allowed to learn at their own pace and in what interests them. They have to learn to use math and measurement to build a little garage for their toy cars or to help their dad rebuild an engine. They have to learn the difference between a half of a cup and a quarter of a cup, in order to help grams bake cookies. They have to learn to spell and type correctly, in order to text their friends. No misspellings or bad grammar are allowed. They have to learn to read in order to follow instructions in a complicated video game. The list goes on and on. They learn what and when they desire to learn, and best of all they retain what they learn. Our oldest grandson probably knows more about WWI and WWII history than most here, this because it interests him. The youngest, at the age of 3, knew more about a computer than I do, today, this because he desired to learn. He taught himself to read at the age of 3 and 4 and has been reading about 4 grade levels above, since, all because he wanted to play video games. What was odd is he somehow learned, on his own, phonics. They do have a tutor that comes in. Her lessons are given while taking walks or playing games. Of course as they get older the lessons will get more complicated and most likely they will end up going to school, but for now they're being allowed to have fun being children. Hi, lone. That's what our Son's got from his Montessori school. Learn by playing and findout what's your interest.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 10:36:59 GMT -5
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Apr 18, 2013 10:40:06 GMT -5
swasat - I got a degree in math (I know my one experience is not an indicator of the norm, but I had a great experience). I did Calc 1 and 2 in high school. By the time we got to advanced courses my parents had us in tutoring or early college courses that allowed home school kids. DH's parents did the same. At that point home schooling was more about the flexible options than it was about staying in our house and never leaving or learning from anyone but mom. Thanks for the info ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) So when you entered college, how was it for you to adjust to regular schedules and expectations and deadlines? Don't take it otherwise, but college does have stringent deadlines and expectations about course work and assignments due than what homeschooling requires. Plus there is the expectation to get good grades. Was it an adjustment or a struggle? What about socially? You said you went to different tutoring classes so I am guessing you were already socially well adapted by the time you went to college. But more in terms of education, how big of an adjustment was it? Honestly, it wasn't that big of a deal. My family was pretty conservative and strict, so college was actually more laid back than my mom was. My parents didn't un-school at all. We had deadlines to adhere to and we had to keep our grades up. I graduated high school with a 4.0 and college with a 3.85 GPA. And no, I didn't just get a 4.0 in high school since mom was the main teacher ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) As for socially, we were always involved with home school groups and our church groups, and we did other volunteer activities and had friends our age in the neighborhood. If anything we had more opportunities for socializing with diverse groups than someone who just went to the same HS all day and went home.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 18, 2013 10:45:40 GMT -5
Oh my. I know a lot of religious people who were really only prepared to go to a religious college - and that was after attending a religious high school. Even my BIL who went to public school - my IL's had him all twisted up about religion, so he was totally unprepared to face the world. He's almost 50, and still a little stunted from the experience. So, I'm not sure if we can fully blame homeschooling for the inadequacies of this particular family. Although, I'm not necessarily going to blame "religion" either. The application of both seem to be a formula of inadequate preparation. Poor kids. [/span][/quote] I don't necessarily BLAME homeschooling or even think it is bad. I can actually understand why some decide to go that route. What I have a problem with are the parents who do it and aren't even remotely qualified to teach math, science, etc. at a high school level.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Apr 18, 2013 10:57:20 GMT -5
So Sam, you work full time, right?
So how do you plan to homeschool? Either you or DH will be a SAHP to achieve that?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 18, 2013 10:59:01 GMT -5
Almost40, the two students that DH had the the college that were blazing successes were taught science and math almost exclusively at the CC not by their parents. I want to say they started around 14 at the CC taking classes. For the first few years they were taking what the college calls remedial classes. In their case they had not ever had the class before so it was expected for them to start there. They may have started out in the 70's for math, with basic college math class starting at 107, which is about 7th grade work. For all I know they took some classes twice, but by the time they were around 18 or 19 they were doing full blown college classes and doing very well. They gradusted with AA's and went on to very good schools.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 11:00:02 GMT -5
I caught parts of the show and the thing that stuck out was the young daughter of the unschoolers still couldn't read! Well, that and the Dad took the 13 year old to get his nose pierced. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/confused.png)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 11:05:19 GMT -5
I can't help but wonder if the main reason for some people taking their kids out of the public school system is to make sure they get the education they need or to make sure they don't have to interact with "those" kids.....
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Apr 18, 2013 11:10:06 GMT -5
I started a thread on unschooling years ago and got ridiculed off the thread. Now, we are seeing more and more parents seriously looking into it. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) Unschooling has been incorporated into our grandchildren's home schooling and it's been most successful. The kids have been allowed to learn at their own pace and in what interests them. They have to learn to use math and measurement to build a little garage for their toy cars or to help their dad rebuild an engine. They have to learn the difference between a half of a cup and a quarter of a cup, in order to help grams bake cookies. They have to learn to spell and type correctly, in order to text their friends. No misspellings or bad grammar are allowed. They have to learn to read in order to follow instructions in a complicated video game. The list goes on and on. They learn what and when they desire to learn, and best of all they retain what they learn. Our oldest grandson probably knows more about WWI and WWII history than most here, this because it interests him. The youngest, at the age of 3, knew more about a computer than I do, today, this because he desired to learn. He taught himself to read at the age of 3 and 4 and has been reading about 4 grade levels above, since, all because he wanted to play video games. What was odd is he somehow learned, on his own, phonics. They do have a tutor that comes in. Her lessons are given while taking walks or playing games. Of course as they get older the lessons will get more complicated and most likely they will end up going to school, but for now they're being allowed to have fun being children. We don't home school, and we don't unschool. I think that what you have listed is simply good parenting, and it isn't limited to homeschooling or unschooling. I start baking with my kids at age 2. I have them make brownies from scratch. You just need a mixing bowl and a spoon. I do hold off egg cracking though until they are 5ish. I was shocked at how coveted cracking a stupid egg or two is in our household. We let our kids buy small things. My oldest is pretty keen on money. At 5, he could buy a pack of pokemon cards, figure out the coins needed, and knew what the heck sales tax was. We do enrich our kids' interests at any given time....My oldest wanted to go see bison in person. So we planned a vacation out to South Dakota for a week and a half. My oldest also wants to go to Yellowstone. Hopefully we'll get there in 2 years, maybe more like 3. When he was big into Egypt, we went to a couple museums within a 4 hour drive from our house that had decent exhibits on Egypt.. My middle child really digs creative processes. She's a little too young yet, to take to concerts/dance performances. When the time comes, absolutely, she'll be going to what she wishes too. She has unlimited access to stickers, crayons, markers, paper, glue, etc and will keep herself busy for quite some time with these things. She can't wait to set up her easel and paint outside..We do enroll her in classes in her interests, mostly because we don't have the space/money to accommodate her interests in our home (ie, setting up a dance studio or gymnastics gym). I'm not knocking homeschooling/unschooling. I've seen it work really well for families. I don't think these folks have the corner on involved parenting, where the child leads with their interest, though.. ETA: We do not dictate what the kids read for the most part. My DS eats up everything from Captain Underpants to fiction with mythology woven into it, to the old GI comics from when DH was young, to a yearly almanac with a million factoids in it. Now, if he wanted to read 50 shades of grey, well, I'd put my foot down on that, seeing as he's 9. For the most part, I don't care, as long as he's reading...
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Apr 18, 2013 11:10:17 GMT -5
Oh my. I know a lot of religious people who were really only prepared to go to a religious college - and that was after attending a religious high school. Even my BIL who went to public school - my IL's had him all twisted up about religion, so he was totally unprepared to face the world. He's almost 50, and still a little stunted from the experience. So, I'm not sure if we can fully blame homeschooling for the inadequacies of this particular family. Although, I'm not necessarily going to blame "religion" either. The application of both seem to be a formula of inadequate preparation. Poor kids. [/span][/quote] I don't necessarily BLAME homeschooling or even think it is bad. I can actually understand why some decide to go that route. What I have a problem with are the parents who do it and aren't even remotely qualified to teach math, science, etc. at a high school level. [/quote] There are a lot of ways you might handle it. In my area, a lot of homeschooling families use the local community college for advanced math and science. In my state (California), students as young as 14 can take courses (for their learning only, no college credit). At age 16, you do earn college credit. So it is possible, if a student wishes, to earn an AA or to complete the CSU transfer pattern by age 18. Students who are homeschooling through a charter school (homeschool based charter schools are also very big in my area) take math, science, or any other courses they choose from the credentialed teachers employed by the charter school.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 18, 2013 11:10:22 GMT -5
I still want to know what you do when you have a kid that is severely challenged in an area or has no interest whatsoever in learning it. Surely I am not the only person who has a subject they couldn't absorb like a little sponge and has had to put a lot of effort into learning it.
What would you do with a kid like me? Math has never and will never come naturally to me, I need to work twice as hard compared to someone it does come naturally to. It's also bled over into other subjects like physics that are heavily math based.
On the flip side I am a science whiz (weird huh?) and can teach myself genetics/o-chem/developmental biology etc.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 11:18:09 GMT -5
Well, from the lack of responses my guess is you ignore it. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png)
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 18, 2013 11:18:59 GMT -5
Can't speak for others, but between my DH and I we have 4 degrees - accounting/finance, math, physics and computer science, so we better be able to teach them, otherwise we wasted a whole lotta time and even more money ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Apr 18, 2013 11:20:27 GMT -5
I just saw this today: www.today.com/news/meet-family-who-sent-six-kids-college-age-12-1C9316706Drama - I think everyone has their strengths & weaknesses. English/literature was never my favorite topic. I would shake and stutter every time I had to give a speach or oral book report, even just in front of my mom. Through college I had to take a speach class and it was pure torture. Fast-forward five years later and I had a job teaching & presenting in front of large groups. It took a lot of work for me to get there though. But I think it's a parent/teacher's job to help guide kids through that and build up their weak spots while still encouraging growth in their strong areas.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Apr 18, 2013 11:23:03 GMT -5
So Sam, you work full time, right? So how do you plan to homeschool? Either you or DH will be a SAHP to achieve that? Yep, if we decide to home school then I will SAH at that point. We still have three years to go. We've also considered paying someone else to home school for awhile (SIL and a good friend will probably go that route, both would be excellent teachers and have kids the same age as DD). I'm not sold on home school as the only solution though. I am open to what works best for each kid and our family at that time. Home, private (non-religious), or religious private school.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 18, 2013 11:25:10 GMT -5
I still want to know what you do when you have a kid that is severely challenged in an area or has no interest whatsoever in learning it. Surely I am not the only person who has a subject they couldn't absorb like a little sponge and has had to put a lot of effort into learning it.
What would you do with a kid like me? Math has never and will never come naturally to me, I need to work twice as hard compared to someone it does come naturally to. It's also bled over into other subjects like physics that are heavily math based.
On the flip side I am a science whiz (weird huh?) and can teach myself genetics/o-chem/developmental biology etc.
I don't know what will happen in reality, I can only tell you what our plan is - my DH is VERY VERY VERY adamant about our boys getting as much math and science as he can get into them. He is also a SPECTACULAR teacher, so one way or another he would find a way. Also, and that's where me and unschooling are not friends, I started doing certain things with them before they knew that they were doing math or science or language, etc. I hope that it will help as well. Other than that - I will pray a lot and will save money for therapy.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 18, 2013 11:32:57 GMT -5
That's pretty much what my parents and teachers did. We had to hammer it in till it stuck as much as it could thru practice and memorization.
It clicks better now that I do it every day, I get the point they were trying to drive home but still struggle.
If my parents and teachers hadn't rode me as hard as they did I honestly don't think I would have picked much up beyond rudimentary elementary school math.
The way I am reading posts here it seems like the theory is kids are natural little sponges and if you just let them go they'll pick things up and learn them automatically no matter what. That they'll become intereted in it in their own time and master it eventually.
I sure as hell didn't, math was a real struggle and I would have been a happy camper if my third grade teacher had no forced me to learn my times tables. Would I have picked it up on my own eventually? Who knows.
Maybe I am wrong in how I am interpreting it? I'd assume you'd have some plan in place if your kid refuses to do something that at some point he's going to need in life. Or do you just trust they'll learn it in time on their own?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 18, 2013 11:39:02 GMT -5
Are you asking me?
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Apr 18, 2013 11:40:34 GMT -5
While the concept of unschooling is appropriate for some, I don't think it is appropriate for the vast majority of the population.
I'll use knowledge of personal finance as an example. Personal finance is taught in a fashion very similiar to unschooling. Personal finance usually isn't a part of the formal education ciriculum. We learn personal finance from our parents and what we observe happening around us. If we are interested or our parents have the skills and do a good job of teaching, we pick up some good information.
If the vast majority of the population was capable of making good decisions about their own education, we would be a country of personal finance wizards. However, since nearly 50% of the US population did not earn enough to pay federal income taxes last year, there is a pretty clear indication that a very large portion of the population are financial train wrecks going some place to happen.
Are you willing to let your child's education, or the nation's children's educations, go the way that our nation's personal finance education has gone?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 11:44:19 GMT -5
I think DQ is asking general questions about the process.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 18, 2013 11:48:39 GMT -5
I have my own questions about homeschooled kids. So homeschooling, does it teach advanced math like calculus and higher algebra? Let me rephrase this: WHEN does homeschooling tackle higher math and science concepts? Most of these high math and science concepts are necessary to get good SAT scores and to get into a STEM program. So homeschooling moms, do you feel confortable that you can teach your kids enough for them to get into a STEM program? Call me whatever, but DH and I want our kids to get into some kind of STEM program. Yeah I know its not the be all and end all of education. But those are actually higher paying fields and if my kids show any aptitude for it then I want them to get into STEM. If they show no inclination then into some other well paying field. But I still want them well equipped to handle SAT. Can anyone enlighten me about the % of homeschooled getting into STEM programs at universities? The success rate of it? There was an oral surgeon who I used to work with where he and his wife homeschooled his 6 kids. He would periodically come into the lab to ask to borrow equipment to do science experiments with his kids, or ask for ideas as to how to demonstrate certain processes (I remember helping him with an endothermic/exothermic experiment). His wife was a former teacher and she was able to cover the English/history curriculum where her husband taught the math and science part. He left the university about 4 years ago, so I never heard what happened with those kids, but I would imagine that they probably got as good a STEM education homeschooled as they would in school. But that was a unique situation and not all homeschoolers have the resources that he had available to him to provide STEM education.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 18, 2013 11:50:11 GMT -5
General rhetorical question. I'll admit I'm probably way too linear/logical in my thought process to get how unschooling or free style homeschooling works and that's why I don't get it. That's why I don't plan on doing it. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) Everyone has something they aren't good at or given half the chance wouldn't do it. My question is as an unschooler how would you make sure your kid learns what he/she needs to learn if they show no desire to learn it? There was that post the last time about the unschool mom whose kid plays video games obessesively to the point where she feeds him dinner to make sure he eats. What the hell do you do with a kid like that? Pray he's absorbing the nessecary lessons thru osmosis? Or do you kick him off his X-box and make him learn? Not saying all kids are that extreme, most of us probably fall somewhere in the middle when it comes to motivation, especially when it comes to things we don't like.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 11:50:11 GMT -5
My husband is a good teacher, too. Although he has backed off somewhat. He feels that the kids need to learn to learn without his intervention every day. I don't know if it is because he doesn't want to, or our kids are doing very well without his intervention, or what. I, however, am a horrible teacher. It usually goes something like this "Mom, I need help with this homework." And I look at it and say "The answer is 14 - can't you see that?" And then things start to go badly. I have often thought about seeing if I could take a class learning how to teach someone something. It would likely make me a better mom and a better boss.[/span]
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 11:52:39 GMT -5
On the other unschooling thread, there was a link to a message board where a mother was spoon feeding her 12 year old son because he wouldn't stop playing video games long enough to eat or do anything else. And the other parents were encouraging her along, saying that he will stop when he was ready to stop. I think that gave unschooling a very bad name.
And, I'm pretty sure that is what my son would do. I know minecraft is used quite a bit - but my son stops playing a game when it requires too much thought.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 18, 2013 11:52:39 GMT -5
Here is my issue with unschooling. I'm a born slacker, my kids are born slackers...my only saving grace is I don't ever want to be poor so I work very hard so I can make a good salary.
but if I were in school and I had the option of doing the easy stuff or hard stuff, you can bet that I would have chosen the easy stuff. I ran into this with my youngest. I sent her to a Montessori based preschool and it did not work AT ALL for her. Even the teachers told me that she was a kid who always chose the path of least resistance. She needs structure.
I'm also very Type A so I honestly can't imagine unschooling...while I am not thrilled with public school and teaching to the test, unschooling seems too far the other way.
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