movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,372
|
Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2013 12:18:05 GMT -5
I have seen grown adults allow themselves to be bullied at work and the bullies seem to know who to target. It can be excruciating to watch...
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,492
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 12:19:52 GMT -5
We had a lady here who would bully people. A few quit, a few were fired. One lady ended up in a mental health facility. I lived through it, because I had the right people on my side. As always, you have to have a friend if you want to live through a bully.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,372
|
Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2013 12:22:28 GMT -5
We had a lady here who would bully people. A few quit, a few were fired. One lady ended up in a mental health facility. I lived through it, because I had the right people on my side. As always, you have to have a friend if you want to live through a bully. Yes, safety in numbers. We had the same situation where I used to work. There were 3 of us who refused to be bullied by this lady. She hated us but she left us the hell alone.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Apr 10, 2013 12:24:08 GMT -5
Part of teaching your children is teaching them to be kind to others but also teaching them that they do not have to allow people to run roughshod over them. There are times you do have to go to the school but also times when you have to teach them to stand up for yourself.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,492
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 12:24:54 GMT -5
She tried to bully me, and every time I would "tell an adult" (A.K.A. my boss.) He did a couple of things, including confronting her, and tattling on her to executives. One time she went around and told a bunch of people that I "ran right to my boss" every time I said anything to her. Once she realized I was more trouble than it was worth, she backed off. Bottom line, she got fired, and I'm still here. Ha!
|
|
sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
|
Post by sheilaincali on Apr 10, 2013 12:26:05 GMT -5
happyhoix- I think it was the whole "he has a knife" lie that resulted in the cops being called in. Plus this was like a week after a 16 year old had committed suicide and the day after a big girl fight and suspension so there had been a few incidents leading up to that. Bob conveniently forgot to mention threatening to rape Joe's mom when he went to the principal.
Plus there is a huge difference between a "your momm's so fat" trash talk and a "I'm going to rape your mom".
But we can't have it both ways. We can't complain that schools aren't proactive enough in punishing bullying behavior and then get mad when they over punish. If you state over and over again that you have a zero tolerance policy you have to follow through on it and have zero tolerance.
In the bra snapping incident. They had been briefing the kids on proper behavior in junior high and telling them that there is a zero tolerance policy. When within a day of that student assembly a boy goes up to a girl and snaps her bra in front of a teacher and a hallway full of students. Caught the girl off garb she yelped loudly so kids either saw what happened or the aftermath. The school had no choice but to follow through. They made an announcement that afternoon that essentially said "Reminder, we have a zero tolerance policy regarding any and all forms of bullying, abuse and harassment. There was an incident this morning that resulted in a 3 day suspension. We take this very seriously." You better believe DS walked away with the message that going up to girls and snapping their bras was unacceptable behavior and would result in punishment.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,372
|
Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2013 12:27:37 GMT -5
Part of teaching your children is teaching them to be kind to others but also teaching them that they do not have to allow people to run roughshod over them. There are times you do have to go to the school but also times when you have to teach them to stand up for yourself. I don't ever remember my mom going to my school. I think she probably would have if things escalated to a point where I couldn't handle it but for the most part she wanted me to learn to deal with things on my own. To this day I think that helped shape me into the person I am today.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,506
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 10, 2013 12:28:53 GMT -5
How sad is it that I wish I'd had a bra to snap in middle school? I was flat as a board. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/melancholy.png)
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Apr 10, 2013 12:30:38 GMT -5
There are times i have gone to the school. When my son was little he started acting withdrawn and crying. He didn't want to go to school. It took me over 2 weeks to pull out what was bothering him. Then i found out there was a much older kid who was slapping his backpack and name calling, etc. So, i went to the school and we got his seat changed and the bus driver kept and eye and it was fine. I absolutely do advocate intervening and looking into the situation.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 26, 2024 12:15:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 12:32:26 GMT -5
Honestly, I go to the rape point here. Not sure if its apt, but it mirrors my thinking. I say we teach girls both 1) what you wear is not consent. AND 2) Wearing that while walking alone in that neighborhood might get you hurt.
Does it give him the right? No way. Can I take away the hurt/ what happens after it does? No.
But in the end, the crime is on the behalf of the perpetrator. You teach kids to deal with assholes, but that doesn't give assholes the right to say and do whatever they want.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 26, 2024 12:15:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 12:32:39 GMT -5
Honestly, I go to the rape point here. Not sure if its apt, but it mirrors my thinking. I say we teach girls both 1) what you wear is not consent. AND 2) Wearing that while walking alone in that neighborhood might get you hurt.
Does it give him the right? No way. Can I take away the hurt/ what happens after it does? No.
But in the end, the crime is on the behalf of the perpetrator. You teach kids to deal with assholes, but that doesn't give assholes the right to say and do whatever they want.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Apr 10, 2013 12:50:35 GMT -5
I don't think kids are worse, I don't think problems are worse, but now we have a label that you KNOW will get attention and all of a sudden there is bullying everywhere.
Either that... or bullying has always been a huge problem and we've simply not recognized it as such in the past. I know when I was a kid, we were told to "brush it off" when kids made fun of us. We were told not to be "tattletales." I was never personally bullied so I don't have any specific experiences with this, but I do know how it feels to be a child and have a serious problem which is minimized and/or dismissed outright by the adults around you. It makes you feel powerless, and weak. Because if they don't think it's a problem and won't take steps to protect you because you're just being a big crybaby, well, there's nowhere to go from there. This isn't to say people should be helicopter parents, swooping in every time a kid teases another kid - I don't intend to do that with my own, I want her to be independent and confident enough to solve her own problems to the greatest extent possible - but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss bullying as a meaningless "label" on stuff kids used to be tough enough to deal with, because I think there's much more to it than that. I'm not comfortable with needing a pattern to emerge before we are willing to call something bullying - it implies that it is okay to do these things as long as you only do them once or once in a while. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif) Maybe we need some different words - like harassment in addition to bullying.
I honestly don't care what word we use, I care about what's happening. If one kid is torturing another kid, I don't give a shit whether s/he's done it before or what we call it as long as it's taken seriously and stopped. My concern is that when we use the words bully and bullying to describe less serious situations such as rude comments or a one-off teasing incident we end up minimizing the seriousness of bullying.
I see your point - words DO matter, and if something that has a specific meaning is used to describe something entirely different, that can definitely have a minimizing effect. But I think arbitrarily declaring what is and what is not bullying can also have a minimizing effect on harmful behavior that is technically "not" bullying and therefore not taken as seriously. Does that make sense? Even though bullying has a specific definition, some behaviors fall into a gray area. For example, a "pattern" of mean comments directed at someone has to start somewhere, right? So is the first example of those mean comments not bullying and all the ones that come after it are, since they're then part of a pattern? Where do you draw the line? I think the key criteria for bullying is power, not frequency.
I agree.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Apr 10, 2013 13:02:49 GMT -5
That's another thing that pisses me off - we don't allow our kids how to stand up for themselves.
Who says? Personally, I was always taught to stand up for myself and I fully intend to teach my daughter to do the same. You have to be tough to make it in this world, no question. That being said, there ARE situations that kids aren't equipped and shouldn't be expected to handle alone. So it kind of pisses me off when people pull out the "why can't this kid be tougher/work this out on his own?" card, because... really? Certain situations, yes. Kids need to learn to deal with life by themselves. But it's ALSO a parent's job to protect their children from situations they were never meant to survive. And certain kids ARE more sensitive than others. I'm not saying you swoop in and protect the "weak" kids so they never learn to deal with life. I'm saying that one kid might come home crying because of a remark that another kid might have simply shrugged off, and (general) you wouldn't deal with the remark the same way with both kids. Teaching kids how to stand up for themselves is one thing. Teaching them to endure abusive situations in the name of not being perceived as weak is quite another. Needless to say, we figured out how to handle our disagreements/hurt feelings, etc. But on a larger scale - I think it's almost impossible bc you NEVER know how the other person will interpret your actions. whoisjohngalt, we've had this discussion before and I'll repeat my position from that thread. If you're (general you again) standing on my foot and I tell you about it, your response should be to get off my foot. Not argue with me that you had a right to stand on my foot, or insist that standing on my foot shouldn't hurt you, or claim that you didn't realize you were standing on my foot. I don't care why you were doing it - just get the hell off my foot, quickly. In other words, once a kid knows their behavior is hurting someone else (and they don't need to hear that from the victim, either - some behaviors are out of line whether the victim "stands up for him/herself" or not) it's their responsibility to stop. Not the victim's responsibility to keep justifying why they should stop. Of course I am not talking about very obvious harassment actions
Who defines "very obvious" harassment actions?
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Apr 10, 2013 13:11:52 GMT -5
You know, just reading between the lines of this thread has helped me suss out something that's been bothering me for awhile. There's a developing mentality in this country that if you're weak in certain ways, you don't deserve protection or consideration.
For example, if someone says something mean to you and you don't defend yourself because you're embarrassed/scared/not confident enough to ask them to stop, then you're perceived as inviting more abuse. It's assumed to be your responsibility to control how other people treat you by responding the "right" way instead of the "wrong" way.
I just started reading a book (and I'm not very far into it yet) about introverts versus extroverts, and one thing it really emphasizes is how introverts are automatically perceived as weaker and less desirable than extroverts. It's really interesting stuff. A lot of introverts (according to the book) learn how to act like extroverts in order to be perceived as stronger.
I think there's a growing theme in our society that people are not tough enough, and should learn to be more tolerant of stuff that's "not that bad." If you make a big stink over stuff that's "not that bad," then you're oversensitive, melodramatic - basically, you're kind of a wuss and you should shut up and just deal with it.
My question is why are people whose personality means that they are, in fact, more sensitive to other people by nature considered less worthy because they take things to heart? Why are we so intent on punishing people who aren't built to let things "roll off their back" just because there are people out there who have no problem with the same things?
If Babybird turns out to be a really sensitive child, my inclination is going to be to try to "toughen her up" because otherwise the world will chew her up and spit her out like it's done with many, many people close to me who have very sensitive personalities. Because I know she'll suffer if I don't make her tougher.
But it makes me sad that my intent will be to change who she is because if I don't, she'll suffer.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 26, 2024 12:15:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 13:13:24 GMT -5
Which book firebird? Thanks.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,492
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 13:17:30 GMT -5
You aren't changing her. You are making her a more prepared version of herself.
The reason why kids need to "learn to be tough" is that the world is tough. Even as an adult, when people are nice - crap happens, and you have to be ready to take it.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Apr 10, 2013 13:20:28 GMT -5
You know, just reading between the lines of this thread has helped me suss out something that's been bothering me for awhile. There's a developing mentality in this country that if you're weak in certain ways, you don't deserve protection or consideration. For example, if someone says something mean to you and you don't defend yourself because you're embarrassed/scared/not confident enough to ask them to stop, then you're perceived as inviting more abuse. It's assumed to be your responsibility to control how other people treat you by responding the "right" way instead of the "wrong" way. I just started reading a book (and I'm not very far into it yet) about introverts versus extroverts, and one thing it really emphasizes is how introverts are automatically perceived as weaker and less desirable than extroverts. It's really interesting stuff. A lot of introverts (according to the book) learn how to act like extroverts in order to be perceived as stronger. I think there's a growing theme in our society that people are not tough enough, and should learn to be more tolerant of stuff that's "not that bad." If you make a big stink over stuff that's "not that bad," then you're oversensitive, melodramatic - basically, you're kind of a wuss and you should shut up and just deal with it. My question is why are people whose personality mean that they are, in fact, more sensitive to other people by nature considered less worthy because they take things to heart? Why are we so intent on punishing people who aren't built to let things "roll off their back" just because there are people out there who have no problem with the same things? If Babybird turns out to be a really sensitive child, my inclination is going to be to try to "toughen her up" because otherwise the world will chew her up and spit her out like it's done with many, many people close to me who have very sensitive personalities. Because I know she'll suffer if I don't make her tougher. But it makes me sad that my intent will be to change who she is because if I don't, she'll suffer. I understand what you are saying. And, my daughter is very tenderhearted. And, when she was little i did "baby" her feelings. But, as she went in to middle school, i realized that my pitying her or being overly sympathetic only resulted in her feeling WORSE and indulging those feelings and did nothing to resolve the feelings but only fueled the fire. It was very hard for me to realize that i was starting to cripple her and not help her. So, instead i had to help her learn to minimize the impact of these kinds of things in her mind and emotions. I told her that she was a 'strong girl" and the "sticks and stones" thing and that they might voice their opinions that weren't very nice but she did not have to ACCEPT these opinions and apply them to herself. Over time she did indeed become a stronger and more resilient.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 26, 2024 12:15:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 13:20:34 GMT -5
That is an unfair assesment of why overly sensitive people need to "toughen up". Sensitive people can feel whatever they feel, I'm really big on that in my house. It is how you express it and what you do with it. You can not expect other people to walk on egg shells to accomodate unreasonable demands. That is just a quiet way of being controlling.
Personally I don't buy into the "wrong way to say it" bs. There is no right way to say what people don't want to hear in a way they will actually hear it. If it doesn't bug them you didn't get your point across and they are basically ignoring you.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,492
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 13:23:17 GMT -5
Also, if you let kids (or people, or yourself) wallow in negative feelings, they multiply. If you teach them to identify which ones are important, they will be happier. Not because of some societal, or exterior thought process, but because of a truth in human nature. Teaching your kids to work at being happy is something they may appreciate forever. Teaching your kids to pout is something that will bring them down.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Apr 10, 2013 13:23:51 GMT -5
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Apr 10, 2013 13:24:11 GMT -5
I will most likely get a lot of crap for this, but here is the thing - I wonder about all those kids killing themselves bc of bullying - is it really the bullying that is the problem or those kids had certain issues? When I was a kid, I was bullied a lot bc of one aspect of who I am. In 1st or 2nd grade (can't remember) one girl told the rest of the girls not to be friends with me bc "Lena is xxx". It wasn't an isolated incident. I had to deal with it in school and outside. I also have been wearing glasses since I was 4 yrs old - if you only knew all the jokes and teasing I got bc of that. Whether I was 7 or 17 - not only it never occurred to me to kill myself, it really didn't traumatize me for life either. And I am sure I am not the only one. Some people can just handle things better than others and yes, we should remember that when dealing with people. But it seems, just as with many other things, this bullying thing is getting out of control and not in a sense that kids are getting to be too cruel, but in a sense that we are suppose to be all those nice robots who don't say the wrong thing, don't do the wrong thing - and evidently it's suppose to start the day you are born. Doesn't work like that. I lived in neighborhoods where you might get shot for looking at someone the wrong way or saying the wrong thing. The person may have an issue or issues but does that make it right to bully them? The kid that goes to school and shoot the kids that were bullying him, is he wrong? My mom taught me to play nice not because she was worried about the other kids but more so because she was worried for me; you never know how the other kids will react or take it. So just like you say bullying has always been around, losing your marbles and beating the crap out of someone or killing someone that has been giving you shit has also always been around. You never know what will make that someone lose it. Yes two wrongs don't make it right, but I never shed a tear for a bully that get the taste of their own medicine or worse. So when those parents go on TV and say how their sweet kid did not deserve such an ending, everyone forget how they mistreated the victim that finally fought back. So yes they may have issue or issues but can I blame them when instead of suicide they decide to kill the last jerk that pushed them over the edge? You are only hearing ONE version of the story. Just because someone cries "Bully" doesn't mean that there is bullying. I know some kids who think the whole world is bullying them. A lot of so called "bullying" is that someone disagrees with or doesn't like them. Sorry but part of life is understand that not everyone likes you or has to like you and you have to learn how to deal with that. Sheesh. So now it is OK to go on a shooting rampage? Unbelievable. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif)
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 10, 2013 13:25:45 GMT -5
That's another thing that pisses me off - we don't allow our kids how to stand up for themselves.
Who says? Personally, I was always taught to stand up for myself and I fully intend to teach my daughter to do the same. You have to be tough to make it in this world, no question. That being said, there ARE situations that kids aren't equipped and shouldn't be expected to handle alone. So it kind of pisses me off when people pull out the "why can't this kid be tougher/work this out on his own?" card, because... really? Certain situations, yes. Kids need to learn to deal with life by themselves. But it's ALSO a parent's job to protect their children from situations they were never meant to survive. And certain kids ARE more sensitive than others. I'm not saying you swoop in and protect the "weak" kids so they never learn to deal with life. I'm saying that one kid might come home crying because of a remark that another kid might have simply shrugged off, and (general) you wouldn't deal with the remark the same way with both kids. Teaching kids how to stand up for themselves is one thing. Teaching them to endure abusive situations in the name of not being perceived as weak is quite another. Needless to say, we figured out how to handle our disagreements/hurt feelings, etc. But on a larger scale - I think it's almost impossible bc you NEVER know how the other person will interpret your actions. whoisjohngalt, we've had this discussion before and I'll repeat my position from that thread. If you're (general you again) standing on my foot and I tell you about it, your response should be to get off my foot. Not argue with me that you had a right to stand on my foot, or insist that standing on my foot shouldn't hurt you, or claim that you didn't realize you were standing on my foot. I don't care why you were doing it - just get the hell off my foot, quickly. In other words, once a kid knows their behavior is hurting someone else (and they don't need to hear that from the victim, either - some behaviors are out of line whether the victim "stands up for him/herself" or not) it's their responsibility to stop. Not the victim's responsibility to keep justifying why they should stop. Of course I am not talking about very obvious harassment actions
Who defines "very obvious" harassment actions? I was considering responding to this, but then realized that there is no logic (or at least none that I can see), so really didn't know what I would say..... It showed me that you "tagged" me - I don't know what that means either
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Apr 10, 2013 13:28:19 GMT -5
Sensitive people can feel whatever they feel, I'm really big on that in my house. It is how you express it and what you do with it. You can not expect other people to walk on egg shells to accomodate unreasonable demands. That is just a quiet way of being controlling.
Good point. You aren't changing her. You are making her a more prepared version of herself.
Also good. I like that. And I suppose that's true of parenting any kid with any personality. ALL personalities are problematic in some way, and even someone's best qualities can be weapons as well as assets. If you have a bold, outspoken, daredevil kid then you'll need to teach him/her not to trample over other people - and therefore make him/her a more prepared version of him/herself in a different way. The world might naturally embrace that personality type more, but it's not absolute. thyme4change and @justaposter - thanks to both of you, this actually helped.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Apr 10, 2013 13:30:01 GMT -5
I was considering responding to this, but then realized that there is no logic (or at least none that I can see), so really didn't know what I would say.....I don't know how to respond to that either, since my position seems logical to me. But feel free to tell me how you disagree, if you want... or we can just agree to disagree, it wouldn't be the first time ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) Tagging someone just means that I put your name in the post so that you'd know I was talking to you. I'm very fond of that feature.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Apr 10, 2013 13:30:38 GMT -5
That is an unfair assesment of why overly sensitive people need to "toughen up". Sensitive people can feel whatever they feel, I'm really big on that in my house. It is how you express it and what you do with it. You can not expect other people to walk on egg shells to accomodate unreasonable demands. That is just a quiet way of being controlling. Personally I don't buy into the "wrong way to say it" bs. There is no right way to say what people don't want to hear in a way they will actually hear it. If it doesn't bug them you didn't get your point across and they are basically ignoring you. I definitely agree - especially about the controlling part. I'm an advice Carolyn Hax reader an she's where I originally heard that idea from. Is it any less controlling to burst into tears or go into silent mode than scream at someone or punch them if you didn't like what they said?
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 10, 2013 13:37:53 GMT -5
Well, for one - I don't think "brushing it off" is such a bad thing to teach a kid. Some people are born not to give a shit about what others say or do, others need to be taught. And I think it's a very valuable tool to have.
Also, "I" never said "why that kid can't be tougher" - I said that we are concentrating on bullying side of things instead of concentrating on kids that feel that they are being bullied.
I also said that unfortunately in today's world, kids are not allowed to stand up for themselves or don't know how to do it and THAT needs to be addressed. Who in their right mind would suggest that anyone has to endure an abusive situation ? But you should learn how to handle it.
And as far as your foot analogy - yes, it might be "their" responsibility to stop, but while they are taking their time doing "their responsibility", you should know how to get them off your foot or find someone who can help you to get them off. Bc if you are just standing there, while they are trying to figure out their responsibility, well, it's YOUR foot that is hurting.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Apr 10, 2013 13:53:53 GMT -5
Also, "I" never said "why that kid can't be tougher" - I said that we are concentrating on bullying side of things instead of concentrating on kids that feel that they are being bullied.
Right, which comes under the heading of "let's make sure the kid who's doing something wrong changes his/her behavior rather than deciding whether the victim has a right to feel bad because of the behavior." In my opinion, this is a good thing. Instead of wasting time debating whether or not the kid's feelings "should" be hurt, why don't we focus on correcting the little asshole who hurt the kid's feelings?
If the kid whose feelings were hurt needs to "toughen up," the parents can deal with that separately. But focusing on the kids who are bullying and making them stop that behavior is not a bad thing at all.
I also said that unfortunately in today's world, kids are not allowed to stand up for themselves or don't know how to do it and THAT needs to be addressed. Who in their right mind would suggest that anyone has to endure an abusive situation ? But you should learn how to handle it.
The problem is that it's not that straightforward. I'm not going to get into specifics, but being taught to stand up for myself and solve my own problems, while it was a very GOOD thing for the most part, had the unintentional result of making me believe I wasn't supposed to ask anyone for help, EVER, and I ended up in some bad situations that I was not equipped to handle alone, and shouldn't have had to handle alone.
Had my parents KNOWN about those situations, they would have helped me. But teaching me to look out for myself had been so effective that I didn't know the difference between a situation in which it was okay to ask for help and a situation I needed to handle alone, so I just defaulted to the latter every time. And it ended up really hurting me.
My point is that it's a fine line teaching kids how to stand up for themselves without teaching them that it's not okay to ask for help.
And as far as your foot analogy - yes, it might be "their" responsibility to stop, but while they are taking their time doing "their responsibility", you should know how to get them off your foot or find someone who can help you to get them off.
So again, if you're not strong enough to get them off your foot on your own and you don't think you're supposed to ask for help, this can be a sticky situation for a kid.
|
|
Chocolate Lover
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:54:19 GMT -5
Posts: 23,200
|
Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 10, 2013 13:55:51 GMT -5
I don't like how nowadays BOTH kids gets suspended for fighting regardless of who started it. The advice about "go find an adult and don't hit back" isn't realistic. If you're getting off the bus to go home and someone tries to attack you, you may be running for a while until you get to the next adult. As an adult, I'm not going to let someone hit me until I find a cop to help me, so why should we teach kids to do this?
I totally agree!! I think it is complete BS actually to expect a kid to sit there getting his ass kicked without fighting back. Actually, once it's known that you're going to get suspended anyway (either from personal experience or finding out from the fall out from someone else's fight) it just tends to make the kid who got hit first more likely to get all the punches they can get in before it gets stopped. Same result with either behavior so why not go for it? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) Of course, I'm talking about a one on one "fair" fight, if there is such a thing. Just so we're clear.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,492
|
Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 13:56:13 GMT -5
So, is there a way to teach children to attempt to solve their own problems, but call in reinforcements if they can't get it done?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 26, 2024 12:15:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 14:00:58 GMT -5
|
|